Re: Django in the enterprise?
On Wednesday 24 Feb 2010 7:53:03 pm Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > I apologize for writing this type of question to the community but I would > appreciate any information you could pass on considering the breadth of > knowledge within this group. I know that the word “enterprise” gives some > people the creeps, but I am curious to know if anyone has experience > creating enterprise applications, similar to something like say… Java EE > applications, which are highly concurrent, distributed applications with > Django? I know Java has its own issues but its kind of viewed as THE > enterprise framework and I think that’s unfortunate. > there is a very interesting thread on this topic in the developers mailing list where Jacob has described his discussions with a fortune 500 company. please check it out. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Senior Associate NRC-FOSS http://certificate.nrcfoss.au-kbc.org.in -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
@Eric Chapman I know the term "enterprise" is pretty crappy but I didn't know how else to describe and I was hesitant to even throw it out there. I agree there are some seriously crappy "enterprise apps" out there, hell when i started working I inherited a ton! Anyway, thanks for the insight; I appreciate it. Steve On Feb 24, 2010, at 2:31 PM, Eric Chamberlain wrote: > > On Feb 24, 2010, at 6:23 AM, Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > >> Dear friends, >> I apologize for writing this type of question to the community but I would >> appreciate any information you could pass on considering the breadth of >> knowledge within this group. >> I know that the word “enterprise” gives some people the creeps, but I am >> curious to know if anyone has experience creating enterprise applications, >> similar to something like say… Java EE applications, which are highly >> concurrent, distributed applications with Django? I know Java has its own >> issues but its kind of viewed as THE enterprise framework and I think that’s >> unfortunate. >> Some people say that Rails is a good replacement for Java EE but what about >> Django? Has anyone ever used it in this context? You only ever see pretty >> standard websites on djangosites.org and it seems like its capable of so >> much more. I am planning on scrapping some of our old systems which are >> written mostly on ASP.NET and some Java for something more easily >> maintainable. I started using Django for some other applications and find it >> to be fantastic for what I am using it for (Corporate news, intranet, etc.) >> internally but what about something like… an accounts receivable system, or >> a billing system, etc. >> I would hate to see a framework such as this pigeon-holed into a category it >> doesn't need to be. It seems to be used for social media/networking, >> content-heavy sites, not so much data processing, etc. I feel that it has >> all the elements needed to start down this path. Anyone have any thoughts? >> > > > The term "enterprise", is pretty loaded. I've managed some really shitty > "enterprise" apps, like Peoplesoft and Siebel CRM. > > Django can definitely do more than serve up websites. We use django to run > our call routing infrastructure. > > Our main app does have a mobile web interface for making calls, but the > backend telephony servers also communicate with Django via web services. > Django does all the call routing logic. > > -- > Eric Chamberlain, Founder > RF.com - http://RF.com/ > > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
@Philip Thanks for information -- very good advice. I appreciate all the input from everyone else as well. I intend to start using Django for almost everything going forward. Thanks, Steve On Feb 24, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Phlip wrote: > Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > >> Right now we have Java and ASP.NET doing most of the work for us but the >> systems are old and need updating. Not to mention budgetary constraints are >> big thing now. I used Django to write an intranet application and it was >> very nice and I think I can probably handle the other stuff, just wanted to >> draw on other's experience. > > Those tools are clunky and hard to program, driving up the cost of > maintenance. Consider this pattern: > > http://martinfowler.com/bliki/StranglerApplication.html > > Each time someone requests a new feature, do it in Django instead, and > link it to the old system. (And use TDD to write it all.) > > Eventually a new system will emerge, completely obscuring the old one. > > And, yes, Django can do webservices and such, just like platforms with > much bigger advertising budgets. > > -- > Phlip > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
On Feb 24, 2010, at 6:23 AM, Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > Dear friends, > I apologize for writing this type of question to the community but I would > appreciate any information you could pass on considering the breadth of > knowledge within this group. > I know that the word “enterprise” gives some people the creeps, but I am > curious to know if anyone has experience creating enterprise applications, > similar to something like say… Java EE applications, which are highly > concurrent, distributed applications with Django? I know Java has its own > issues but its kind of viewed as THE enterprise framework and I think that’s > unfortunate. > Some people say that Rails is a good replacement for Java EE but what about > Django? Has anyone ever used it in this context? You only ever see pretty > standard websites on djangosites.org and it seems like its capable of so much > more. I am planning on scrapping some of our old systems which are written > mostly on ASP.NET and some Java for something more easily maintainable. I > started using Django for some other applications and find it to be fantastic > for what I am using it for (Corporate news, intranet, etc.) internally but > what about something like… an accounts receivable system, or a billing > system, etc. > I would hate to see a framework such as this pigeon-holed into a category it > doesn't need to be. It seems to be used for social media/networking, > content-heavy sites, not so much data processing, etc. I feel that it has all > the elements needed to start down this path. Anyone have any thoughts? > The term "enterprise", is pretty loaded. I've managed some really shitty "enterprise" apps, like Peoplesoft and Siebel CRM. Django can definitely do more than serve up websites. We use django to run our call routing infrastructure. Our main app does have a mobile web interface for making calls, but the backend telephony servers also communicate with Django via web services. Django does all the call routing logic. -- Eric Chamberlain, Founder RF.com - http://RF.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
> Err... What's an "enterprise application", actually ??? An app written for a company large enough to run an in-house programming team. Their job consists of figuring out how to connect diverse systems that never expected to be connected! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > Right now we have Java and ASP.NET doing most of the work for us but the > systems are old and need updating. Not to mention budgetary constraints are > big thing now. I used Django to write an intranet application and it was very > nice and I think I can probably handle the other stuff, just wanted to draw > on other's experience. Those tools are clunky and hard to program, driving up the cost of maintenance. Consider this pattern: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/StranglerApplication.html Each time someone requests a new feature, do it in Django instead, and link it to the old system. (And use TDD to write it all.) Eventually a new system will emerge, completely obscuring the old one. And, yes, Django can do webservices and such, just like platforms with much bigger advertising budgets. -- Phlip http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeekLand -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
Thank you to all for your comments. It has been most helpful. On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:05 AM, Andy McKay wrote: > > On 2010-02-24, at 6:40 AM, Steven Elliott Jr wrote: >> Right now we have Java and ASP.NET doing most of the work for us but the >> systems are old and need updating. Not to mention budgetary constraints are >> big thing now. I used Django to write an intranet application and it was >> very nice and I think I can probably handle the other stuff, just wanted to >> draw on other's experience. > > Yes there are many large scale (in terms of data and complexity) running on > Django. We've just completed a large "enterprise" project converting classic > ASP to Django and its gone extremely well. It's not on djangosites because > the NDA denies it. > > What you might need to consider if you are pitching to management is making > sure that training, consulting and support is available from companies (which > it is). > -- > Andy McKay, @clearwind > http://clearwind.ca/djangoski > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
On 2010-02-24, at 6:40 AM, Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > Right now we have Java and ASP.NET doing most of the work for us but the > systems are old and need updating. Not to mention budgetary constraints are > big thing now. I used Django to write an intranet application and it was very > nice and I think I can probably handle the other stuff, just wanted to draw > on other's experience. Yes there are many large scale (in terms of data and complexity) running on Django. We've just completed a large "enterprise" project converting classic ASP to Django and its gone extremely well. It's not on djangosites because the NDA denies it. What you might need to consider if you are pitching to management is making sure that training, consulting and support is available from companies (which it is). -- Andy McKay, @clearwind http://clearwind.ca/djangoski -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
2010/2/24 Steven Elliott Jr > Dear friends, > I apologize for writing this type of question to the community but I would > appreciate any information you could pass on considering the breadth of > knowledge within this group. > I know that the word “enterprise” gives some people the creeps, but I am > curious to know if anyone has experience creating enterprise applications, > similar to something like say… Java EE applications, which are highly > concurrent, distributed applications with Django? I know Java has its own > issues but its kind of viewed as THE enterprise framework and I think that’s > unfortunate. > Some people say that Rails is a good replacement for Java EE but what about > Django? Has anyone ever used it in this context? You only ever see pretty > standard websites on djangosites.org and it seems like its capable of so > much more. I am planning on scrapping some of our old systems which are > written mostly on ASP.NET and some Java for something more easily > maintainable. I started using Django for some other applications and find it > to be fantastic for what I am using it for (Corporate news, intranet, etc.) > internally but what about something like… an accounts receivable system, or > a billing system, etc. > I would hate to see a framework such as this pigeon-holed into a category > it doesn't need to be. It seems to be used for social media/networking, > content-heavy sites, not so much data processing, etc. I feel that it has > all the elements needed to start down this path. Anyone have any thoughts? > Maybe the suggestion go out from this conversation but you can review www.openobject.com is a framework to create Enterprise apps, so i want to tell we build enterprise apps with GeoDjango. > > Thank you very much for your time. > > Best, > Steven Elliott > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- Cristian Salamea CEO GnuThink Software Labs Software Libre / Open Source (+593-8) 4-36-44-48 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
On Feb 24, 3:23 pm, Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > Dear friends, > I apologize for writing this type of question to the community but I would > appreciate any information you could pass on considering the breadth of > knowledge within this group. > I know that the word “enterprise” gives some people the creeps, > but I am curious to know if anyone has experience creating enterprise > applications, Err... What's an "enterprise application", actually ??? > similar to something like say… Java EE applications, which are highly > concurrent, distributed applications with Django? I know Java has its own > issues but its kind of viewed as THE enterprise framework and I think that’s > unfortunate. > Some people say that Rails is a good replacement for Java EE but what about > Django? If Rails can do it, then chances are Django will to. With possibly less performances and scaling issues. FWIW, Rails don't seem to score that high in the "highly concurrent, distributed" domain. If you want "highly concurrent, distributed" stuff, you might be better basing your dev on Erlang. > Has anyone ever used it in this context? You only ever see pretty standard > websites on djangosites.org and it seems like its capable of so much more. There are quite a few E-Commerce websites done with Satchmo. > I am planning on scrapping some of our old systems which are written mostly > on ASP.NET and some Java for something more easily maintainable. I started > using Django for some other applications and find it to be fantastic for what > I am using it for (Corporate news, intranet, etc.) internally but what about > something like… an accounts receivable system, or a billing system, etc. > I would hate to see a framework such as this pigeon-holed into a category it > doesn't need to be. It seems to be used for social media/networking, > content-heavy sites, not so much data processing, etc. I feel that it has all > the elements needed to start down this path. Anyone have any thoughts? "social networking" can require as much "data processing" as any CRM or "billing system" or other similar stuff. And anything you can write as a web app can of course be done with Django. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > @Shawn > > Sorry if I was not clear with my question. It seems like a lot of sites that > I have seen on djangosites are news sites, or content-driven sites like > blogs, personal web pages, social networking-type sites like fluther.com, > etc. I was just curious if anyone has every sat down and wrote a distributed > application to handle the internal workings of a business. For instance in my > company we administer a range of benefits to over a million participants. We > have to do claims processing for health insurance claims, perform EDI > transactions that are HIPAA compliant, administer 401(k) benefits, administer > Pension benefits, etc. All of these things require system for the internal > staff and for users from the outside to access. Employers need to pay for > their employee's benefits, reconcile bills, participants need to check > account balances, reallocate investments, etc. I was just wondering if anyone > has used Django to do this (we host everything ourselves, btw). > > Right now we have Java and ASP.NET doing most of the work for us but the > systems are old and need updating. Not to mention budgetary constraints are > big thing now. I used Django to write an intranet application and it was very > nice and I think I can probably handle the other stuff, just wanted to draw > on other's experience. > > Thanks, > Steve > We used django to implement a SAML 2.0 compliant SSO identity provider, which then provides federated logins and personal data across our entire range of web products, ranging from django based websites which do statistical report generation, to C++ applications written as apache modules with our own web framework, also doing report generation. Django is just another web framework, what you do with it is up to you. Cheers Tom -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
@Shawn Sorry if I was not clear with my question. It seems like a lot of sites that I have seen on djangosites are news sites, or content-driven sites like blogs, personal web pages, social networking-type sites like fluther.com, etc. I was just curious if anyone has every sat down and wrote a distributed application to handle the internal workings of a business. For instance in my company we administer a range of benefits to over a million participants. We have to do claims processing for health insurance claims, perform EDI transactions that are HIPAA compliant, administer 401(k) benefits, administer Pension benefits, etc. All of these things require system for the internal staff and for users from the outside to access. Employers need to pay for their employee's benefits, reconcile bills, participants need to check account balances, reallocate investments, etc. I was just wondering if anyone has used Django to do this (we host everything ourselves, btw). Right now we have Java and ASP.NET doing most of the work for us but the systems are old and need updating. Not to mention budgetary constraints are big thing now. I used Django to write an intranet application and it was very nice and I think I can probably handle the other stuff, just wanted to draw on other's experience. Thanks, Steve On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:33 AM, Shawn Milochik wrote: > What do you mean by '...a good replacement for Java EE..."? Python is a > language. Django is a framework written in Python. You can make any kind of > site at all with them. > > My company's Web applications do things like fund debit cards, communicate > with bank APIs, calculate driving reimbursement amounts by distance and make > the appropriate deposit, etc. > > I'm probably just missing the point of your question. What I don't understand > is the distinction you make between 'pretty standard' sites and sites that > deal with accounts receivable. The only difference I see is that in one case > someone wrote some accounts receivable functionality. I don't see that as any > different from a site adding tags or comments. It's all just code. > > Shawn > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
You may find this thread of django-developers interesting; "What The Enterprise wants from Django" http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers/browse_frm/thread/c89e028a536514d3 It's a discussion about some of the things that Django is missing that the enterprise wants/needs - the good news is that the list is fairly short and doesn't really contain surprises. Dougal On 24 February 2010 14:23, Steven Elliott Jr wrote: > Dear friends, > I apologize for writing this type of question to the community but I would > appreciate any information you could pass on considering the breadth of > knowledge within this group. > I know that the word “enterprise” gives some people the creeps, but I am > curious to know if anyone has experience creating enterprise applications, > similar to something like say… Java EE applications, which are highly > concurrent, distributed applications with Django? I know Java has its own > issues but its kind of viewed as THE enterprise framework and I think that’s > unfortunate. > Some people say that Rails is a good replacement for Java EE but what about > Django? Has anyone ever used it in this context? You only ever see pretty > standard websites on djangosites.org and it seems like its capable of so > much more. I am planning on scrapping some of our old systems which are > written mostly on ASP.NET and some Java for something more easily > maintainable. I started using Django for some other applications and find it > to be fantastic for what I am using it for (Corporate news, intranet, etc.) > internally but what about something like… an accounts receivable system, or > a billing system, etc. > I would hate to see a framework such as this pigeon-holed into a category > it doesn't need to be. It seems to be used for social media/networking, > content-heavy sites, not so much data processing, etc. I feel that it has > all the elements needed to start down this path. Anyone have any thoughts? > > Thank you very much for your time. > > Best, > Steven Elliott > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django users" group. > To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Re: Django in the enterprise?
What do you mean by '...a good replacement for Java EE..."? Python is a language. Django is a framework written in Python. You can make any kind of site at all with them. My company's Web applications do things like fund debit cards, communicate with bank APIs, calculate driving reimbursement amounts by distance and make the appropriate deposit, etc. I'm probably just missing the point of your question. What I don't understand is the distinction you make between 'pretty standard' sites and sites that deal with accounts receivable. The only difference I see is that in one case someone wrote some accounts receivable functionality. I don't see that as any different from a site adding tags or comments. It's all just code. Shawn -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
Django in the enterprise?
Dear friends, I apologize for writing this type of question to the community but I would appreciate any information you could pass on considering the breadth of knowledge within this group. I know that the word “enterprise” gives some people the creeps, but I am curious to know if anyone has experience creating enterprise applications, similar to something like say… Java EE applications, which are highly concurrent, distributed applications with Django? I know Java has its own issues but its kind of viewed as THE enterprise framework and I think that’s unfortunate. Some people say that Rails is a good replacement for Java EE but what about Django? Has anyone ever used it in this context? You only ever see pretty standard websites on djangosites.org and it seems like its capable of so much more. I am planning on scrapping some of our old systems which are written mostly on ASP.NET and some Java for something more easily maintainable. I started using Django for some other applications and find it to be fantastic for what I am using it for (Corporate news, intranet, etc.) internally but what about something like… an accounts receivable system, or a billing system, etc. I would hate to see a framework such as this pigeon-holed into a category it doesn't need to be. It seems to be used for social media/networking, content-heavy sites, not so much data processing, etc. I feel that it has all the elements needed to start down this path. Anyone have any thoughts? Thank you very much for your time. Best, Steven Elliott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to django-us...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
