Re: Amazing work

[Jon J]

Cal,

You are so right. I've always taken it as a rule of thumb that the
bigger a corporation is, the bigger and bloated their software is.
It's gotten to the point where I won't touch jobs with a ten foot pole
whose companies are built upon Microsoft products.

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
 wrote:
> Interesting. See, when I compared Zope to Django, I found Django's extensive
> documentation and feature set to be perfect for prototyping, and then
> optimizing bottlenecks at a later date, either via C extensions, raw SQL
> replacement etc. However, as 'cliché' as this may sound, most large
> enterprises tend to steer towards the most complicated, most bloated, most
> difficult to use "technologies" there are around. Take Microsoft CRM, Java
> and *anything* RHEL based as a clear example (others may disagree, this is
> just my opinion as I'm a hard headed debian/python guy ;p)
> (the above is just my
>
> On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Mike Seidle  wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, February 03, 2011 08:02:43 pm Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media
>> Ltd]
>> wrote:
>> > May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can tell,
>> > Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks
>> > would
>> > be using etc.
>>
>> Cal -
>>
>> I just used Django to write a credit card processing application (as in
>> internet gateway w/API for third party sites).  Zope would have simply
>> been
>> way to heavy to handle the transaction load, and frankly, most financial
>> applications fit the RDBMS model much better than the object database
>> model.
>>
>> On the SME/Enterprise statement: Just because a software package is not
>> complicated does not mean that it does not fit in the enterprise space.
>>  I've
>> found that often the more simple a tool is the *better it fits* in large
>> organizations.
>>
>> Mike
>>
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>
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Re: Amazing work

[Mike Seidle]

On Sunday, February 06, 2011 02:54:23 pm Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] 
wrote:
> Interesting. See, when I compared Zope to Django, I found Django's
> extensive documentation and feature set to be perfect for prototyping, and
> then optimizing bottlenecks at a later date, either via C extensions, raw
> SQL replacement etc. However, as 'cliché' as this may sound, most large
> enterprises tend to steer towards the most complicated, most bloated, most
> difficult to use "technologies" there are around. Take Microsoft CRM, Java
> and *anything* RHEL based as a clear example (others may disagree, this is
> just my opinion as I'm a hard headed debian/python guy ;p)


Large organizations can screw anything up. With Django, they can screw it up 
while hitting all the deadlines.

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Re: Amazing work

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

Interesting. See, when I compared Zope to Django, I found Django's extensive
documentation and feature set to be perfect for prototyping, and then
optimizing bottlenecks at a later date, either via C extensions, raw SQL
replacement etc. However, as 'cliché' as this may sound, most large
enterprises tend to steer towards the most complicated, most bloated, most
difficult to use "technologies" there are around. Take Microsoft CRM, Java
and *anything* RHEL based as a clear example (others may disagree, this is
just my opinion as I'm a hard headed debian/python guy ;p)

(the above is just my

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Mike Seidle  wrote:

> On Thursday, February 03, 2011 08:02:43 pm Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media
> Ltd]
> wrote:
> > May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can tell,
> > Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks
> would
> > be using etc.
>
> Cal -
>
> I just used Django to write a credit card processing application (as in
> internet gateway w/API for third party sites).  Zope would have simply been
> way to heavy to handle the transaction load, and frankly, most financial
> applications fit the RDBMS model much better than the object database
> model.
>
> On the SME/Enterprise statement: Just because a software package is not
> complicated does not mean that it does not fit in the enterprise space.
>  I've
> found that often the more simple a tool is the *better it fits* in large
> organizations.
>
> Mike
>
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>
>

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Re: Amazing work

[Mike Seidle]

On Thursday, February 03, 2011 08:02:43 pm Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd] 
wrote:
> May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can tell,
> Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks would
> be using etc.

Cal - 

I just used Django to write a credit card processing application (as in 
internet gateway w/API for third party sites).  Zope would have simply been 
way to heavy to handle the transaction load, and frankly, most financial 
applications fit the RDBMS model much better than the object database model.  

On the SME/Enterprise statement: Just because a software package is not 
complicated does not mean that it does not fit in the enterprise space.  I've 
found that often the more simple a tool is the *better it fits* in large 
organizations.

Mike

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Re: Amazing work

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

To be honest, I've *never* been a fan of frameworks that try to merge every
language into one, like Ext JS, or HTML builders in PHP. Hell I don't
particularly like the 'widgets' in Django either :S I even once saw a PHP
project that builds HTML and JavaScript from PHP objects, it was absolutely
awful.

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Jon J  wrote:

> Yeah, I guess I'll have to redact my comment about Zope.
>
> I must say though, I've never been much of a fan of bloated frameworks
> like this. I spent enough time being forced to maintain Cold Fusion,
> thank you.
>
> On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 11:56 AM, kojiro  wrote:
> > It would be a mistake to compare Zope to Django. Django is a
> > lightweight, easy-to-learn, something-like-MVC framework with a built-
> > in ORM. Zope is a complex, rich, unabashedly pythonistic metaframework
> > with a built-in ACID compliant key-value store. Zope is neither a POS
> > nor unusually slow. Its history is inextricably intertwined with the
> > history of Python itself. Some superb libraries and tools have come
> > out of the Zope project, including both Plone and Repoze.BFG, now
> > Pyramid.
> >
> > Let's not get any further OT, but please, keep the FUD off the list.
> >
> > References:
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=5zYVUIl7F0QC=PA1130=HUb87eoQwI=PA1130#v=onepage=false
> > http://plope.com/bfg-becomes-pyramid
> >
> > On Feb 5, 10:50 am, Jon J  wrote:
> >> Well I was unfortunate enough to  look up the official zope website,
> >> and as I'm typing this it's STILL loading. Haha, I can see what a POS
> >> it is and definitely won't be using it for any projects anytime soon.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>  wrote:
> >> > On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 01:02 +, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can
> tell,
> >> >> Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks
> >> >> would
> >> >> be using etc.
> >>
> >> > as long as one sticks to out of the box stuff and zope's own object
> >> > database, things are dead easy - but the moment you want to fine tune
> or
> >> > use an external database - then things become hairy. Documentation
> sucks
> >> > big time - I see a lot of refugees from zope here. And bloat - dont
> even
> >> > talk of it.
> >> > --
> >> > regards
> >> > KG
> >> >http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> >> > Coimbatore LUG rox
> >> >http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/
> >>
> >> > --
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> Groups "Django users" group.
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> >
>
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Re: Amazing work

[Chris Hannam]

Hi,
Plone (which runs on Zope) is not that unusual a CMS system for business. It
suffers from a lack of documentation like Zope but there is a pretty
thriving community behind Plone currently.

Certainly worth a look if nothing else.

CH

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Re: Amazing work

[Jon J]

Yeah, I guess I'll have to redact my comment about Zope.

I must say though, I've never been much of a fan of bloated frameworks
like this. I spent enough time being forced to maintain Cold Fusion,
thank you.

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 11:56 AM, kojiro  wrote:
> It would be a mistake to compare Zope to Django. Django is a
> lightweight, easy-to-learn, something-like-MVC framework with a built-
> in ORM. Zope is a complex, rich, unabashedly pythonistic metaframework
> with a built-in ACID compliant key-value store. Zope is neither a POS
> nor unusually slow. Its history is inextricably intertwined with the
> history of Python itself. Some superb libraries and tools have come
> out of the Zope project, including both Plone and Repoze.BFG, now
> Pyramid.
>
> Let's not get any further OT, but please, keep the FUD off the list.
>
> References:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=5zYVUIl7F0QC=PA1130=HUb87eoQwI=PA1130#v=onepage=false
> http://plope.com/bfg-becomes-pyramid
>
> On Feb 5, 10:50 am, Jon J  wrote:
>> Well I was unfortunate enough to  look up the official zope website,
>> and as I'm typing this it's STILL loading. Haha, I can see what a POS
>> it is and definitely won't be using it for any projects anytime soon.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> > On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 01:02 +, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
>> > wrote:
>> >> May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can tell,
>> >> Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks
>> >> would
>> >> be using etc.
>>
>> > as long as one sticks to out of the box stuff and zope's own object
>> > database, things are dead easy - but the moment you want to fine tune or
>> > use an external database - then things become hairy. Documentation sucks
>> > big time - I see a lot of refugees from zope here. And bloat - dont even
>> > talk of it.
>> > --
>> > regards
>> > KG
>> >http://lawgon.livejournal.com
>> > Coimbatore LUG rox
>> >http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/
>>
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> > "Django users" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
>> > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group 
>> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>
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>
>

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Re: Amazing work

[kojiro]

It would be a mistake to compare Zope to Django. Django is a
lightweight, easy-to-learn, something-like-MVC framework with a built-
in ORM. Zope is a complex, rich, unabashedly pythonistic metaframework
with a built-in ACID compliant key-value store. Zope is neither a POS
nor unusually slow. Its history is inextricably intertwined with the
history of Python itself. Some superb libraries and tools have come
out of the Zope project, including both Plone and Repoze.BFG, now
Pyramid.

Let's not get any further OT, but please, keep the FUD off the list.

References:
http://books.google.com/books?id=5zYVUIl7F0QC=PA1130=HUb87eoQwI=PA1130#v=onepage=false
http://plope.com/bfg-becomes-pyramid

On Feb 5, 10:50 am, Jon J  wrote:
> Well I was unfortunate enough to  look up the official zope website,
> and as I'm typing this it's STILL loading. Haha, I can see what a POS
> it is and definitely won't be using it for any projects anytime soon.
>
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> > On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 01:02 +, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
> > wrote:
> >> May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can tell,
> >> Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks
> >> would
> >> be using etc.
>
> > as long as one sticks to out of the box stuff and zope's own object
> > database, things are dead easy - but the moment you want to fine tune or
> > use an external database - then things become hairy. Documentation sucks
> > big time - I see a lot of refugees from zope here. And bloat - dont even
> > talk of it.
> > --
> > regards
> > KG
> >http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> > Coimbatore LUG rox
> >http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "Django users" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group 
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.

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Re: Amazing work

[Jon J]

Well I was unfortunate enough to  look up the official zope website,
and as I'm typing this it's STILL loading. Haha, I can see what a POS
it is and definitely won't be using it for any projects anytime soon.

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves
 wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 01:02 +, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
> wrote:
>> May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can tell,
>> Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks
>> would
>> be using etc.
>
> as long as one sticks to out of the box stuff and zope's own object
> database, things are dead easy - but the moment you want to fine tune or
> use an external database - then things become hairy. Documentation sucks
> big time - I see a lot of refugees from zope here. And bloat - dont even
> talk of it.
> --
> regards
> KG
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> Coimbatore LUG rox
> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/
>
> --
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> "Django users" group.
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>
>

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Re: Amazing work

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Fri, 2011-02-04 at 01:02 +, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
wrote:
> May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can tell,
> Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks
> would
> be using etc. 

as long as one sticks to out of the box stuff and zope's own object
database, things are dead easy - but the moment you want to fine tune or
use an external database - then things become hairy. Documentation sucks
big time - I see a lot of refugees from zope here. And bloat - dont even
talk of it.
-- 
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
Coimbatore LUG rox
http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/

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Re: Amazing work

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

May I ask, how well did you get along with Zope? From what I can tell,
Django is suited for SME, where as Zope is the kinda thing that banks would
be using etc.

On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 12:50 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves
wrote:

> I am a hobbyist programmer started with pascal and then perl. Loved
> perl, but once I had to hire a programmer to do some enhancements that I
> did not have time for - he did a good job, but after he left I found I
> could not understand a word of what he had done. Then someone introduced
> me to python and I never looked back. Spent some time wandering in the
> zope world and then in 2005 I stumbled onto Django - end of wandering,
> beginning of being real productive.
>
> On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 10:13 -0600, Jon J wrote:
> > KG,
> >
> > I've been a PHP developer for years and haven't reached outside of PHP
> > pretty much ever. After writing the same code over and over and
> > over and over and over again and always dealing with the same issues
> > (tweaking the database through a database manager, writing admin
> > interfaces, not having a broad enough codebase such as what Python
> > offers, solving the same problem over and over again, etc). I'm a very
> > disorganized person (it comes with the territory for programmers, I
> > imagine) and I don't have time to continually categorize and maintain
> > a personal common code base for every app I write. I love Django
> > because it cuts out all of the repetitive boring crap from the start
> > of a project. I'm sure that frameworks are available in PHP that are
> > similar, but to be honest I like Python a lot better than PHP because
> > it "feels" like a real programming language, and while PHP has its
> > virtues, I find myself using Python as often as possible to solve real
> > problems. Django literally forces me to abstract my code from
> > templating, which has traditionally been a problem when I've
> > collaborated with others on projects; designers assume they can code
> > and end up breaking the entire site. Now, I can delegate template
> > design entirely to the web designers and they can focus on their job
> > and I can do mine.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:15 PM, km  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <
> law...@thenilgiris.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 08:56 -0600, Jon J wrote:
> > >> > I just stumbled upon django when looking for a good way to use
> Python
> > >> > in web programming,
> > >>
> > >> welcome to the club - btw, how did you manage to avoid stumbling over
> > >> django all these years?
> > >> --
> > >> regards
> > >> KG
> > >> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> > >> Coimbatore LUG rox
> > >> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org
> > >
> > > Hi KG,
> > >
> > > Pls dont drag the post unnecessarily. This is not your ilugc mailing
> list.
> > >
> > > KM
> > >>
> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> > >> "Django users" group.
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> > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> .
> > >> For more options, visit this group at
> > >> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
> > >>
> > >
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> > >
> >
>
>
> --
> regards
> KG
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> Coimbatore LUG rox
> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/
>
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>

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Re: Amazing work

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

I am a hobbyist programmer started with pascal and then perl. Loved
perl, but once I had to hire a programmer to do some enhancements that I
did not have time for - he did a good job, but after he left I found I
could not understand a word of what he had done. Then someone introduced
me to python and I never looked back. Spent some time wandering in the
zope world and then in 2005 I stumbled onto Django - end of wandering,
beginning of being real productive.

On Thu, 2011-02-03 at 10:13 -0600, Jon J wrote:
> KG,
> 
> I've been a PHP developer for years and haven't reached outside of PHP
> pretty much ever. After writing the same code over and over and
> over and over and over again and always dealing with the same issues
> (tweaking the database through a database manager, writing admin
> interfaces, not having a broad enough codebase such as what Python
> offers, solving the same problem over and over again, etc). I'm a very
> disorganized person (it comes with the territory for programmers, I
> imagine) and I don't have time to continually categorize and maintain
> a personal common code base for every app I write. I love Django
> because it cuts out all of the repetitive boring crap from the start
> of a project. I'm sure that frameworks are available in PHP that are
> similar, but to be honest I like Python a lot better than PHP because
> it "feels" like a real programming language, and while PHP has its
> virtues, I find myself using Python as often as possible to solve real
> problems. Django literally forces me to abstract my code from
> templating, which has traditionally been a problem when I've
> collaborated with others on projects; designers assume they can code
> and end up breaking the entire site. Now, I can delegate template
> design entirely to the web designers and they can focus on their job
> and I can do mine.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:15 PM, km  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 08:56 -0600, Jon J wrote:
> >> > I just stumbled upon django when looking for a good way to use Python
> >> > in web programming,
> >>
> >> welcome to the club - btw, how did you manage to avoid stumbling over
> >> django all these years?
> >> --
> >> regards
> >> KG
> >> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> >> Coimbatore LUG rox
> >> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org
> >
> > Hi KG,
> >
> > Pls dont drag the post unnecessarily. This is not your ilugc mailing list.
> >
> > KM
> >>
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Django users" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
> >>
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Django users" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
> >
> 


-- 
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
Coimbatore LUG rox
http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/

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Re: Amazing work

[Jon J]

Well, PHP does have its intended purpose and accomplishes its
objectives nicely. If you're building a one-shot, off-the-cuff
application with no forethought to design or scalability, then PHP is
great. It's not hard for novices to use (object orientation is
optional, etc) and uses a much easier to visualize traditional
filesystem model. A lot of web developers don't care to deal with
exception handling or garbage collection, and it rarely makes a
difference to the their task at hand. I understand that this is of
course very slippery slope logic that gives rise to real turds like
Cold Fusion, but for a good percentage of web applications, PHP is
enough like a real programming language to get the job done without
too much hassle.

That being said, I prefer Python :-) It's a much more mature language
that seems to "fit" a bit better with me. It's also noticeably faster
for a lot of the text processing engines I write.

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]
 wrote:
> You know, even if PHP had a framework like Django, I wouldn't use it. PHP is
> clunky, has horrible code syntax, piss poor exception handling, awful
> garbage collection, weirdly named functions, and just feels 'wrong'. And
> don't even get me started on performance!
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Jon J  wrote:
>>
>> KG,
>>
>> I've been a PHP developer for years and haven't reached outside of PHP
>> pretty much ever. After writing the same code over and over and
>> over and over and over again and always dealing with the same issues
>> (tweaking the database through a database manager, writing admin
>> interfaces, not having a broad enough codebase such as what Python
>> offers, solving the same problem over and over again, etc). I'm a very
>> disorganized person (it comes with the territory for programmers, I
>> imagine) and I don't have time to continually categorize and maintain
>> a personal common code base for every app I write. I love Django
>> because it cuts out all of the repetitive boring crap from the start
>> of a project. I'm sure that frameworks are available in PHP that are
>> similar, but to be honest I like Python a lot better than PHP because
>> it "feels" like a real programming language, and while PHP has its
>> virtues, I find myself using Python as often as possible to solve real
>> problems. Django literally forces me to abstract my code from
>> templating, which has traditionally been a problem when I've
>> collaborated with others on projects; designers assume they can code
>> and end up breaking the entire site. Now, I can delegate template
>> design entirely to the web designers and they can focus on their job
>> and I can do mine.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:15 PM, km  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves
>> > 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 08:56 -0600, Jon J wrote:
>> >> > I just stumbled upon django when looking for a good way to use Python
>> >> > in web programming,
>> >>
>> >> welcome to the club - btw, how did you manage to avoid stumbling over
>> >> django all these years?
>> >> --
>> >> regards
>> >> KG
>> >> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
>> >> Coimbatore LUG rox
>> >> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org
>> >
>> > Hi KG,
>> >
>> > Pls dont drag the post unnecessarily. This is not your ilugc mailing
>> > list.
>> >
>> > KM
>> >>
>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >> Groups
>> >> "Django users" group.
>> >> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> >> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups
>> > "Django users" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>> >
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Django users" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> 

Re: Amazing work

[Cal Leeming [Simplicity Media Ltd]]

You know, even if PHP had a framework like Django, I wouldn't use it. PHP is
clunky, has horrible code syntax, piss poor exception handling, awful
garbage collection, weirdly named functions, and just feels 'wrong'. And
don't even get me started on performance!

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Jon J  wrote:

> KG,
>
> I've been a PHP developer for years and haven't reached outside of PHP
> pretty much ever. After writing the same code over and over and
> over and over and over again and always dealing with the same issues
> (tweaking the database through a database manager, writing admin
> interfaces, not having a broad enough codebase such as what Python
> offers, solving the same problem over and over again, etc). I'm a very
> disorganized person (it comes with the territory for programmers, I
> imagine) and I don't have time to continually categorize and maintain
> a personal common code base for every app I write. I love Django
> because it cuts out all of the repetitive boring crap from the start
> of a project. I'm sure that frameworks are available in PHP that are
> similar, but to be honest I like Python a lot better than PHP because
> it "feels" like a real programming language, and while PHP has its
> virtues, I find myself using Python as often as possible to solve real
> problems. Django literally forces me to abstract my code from
> templating, which has traditionally been a problem when I've
> collaborated with others on projects; designers assume they can code
> and end up breaking the entire site. Now, I can delegate template
> design entirely to the web designers and they can focus on their job
> and I can do mine.
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:15 PM, km  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves <
> law...@thenilgiris.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 08:56 -0600, Jon J wrote:
> >> > I just stumbled upon django when looking for a good way to use Python
> >> > in web programming,
> >>
> >> welcome to the club - btw, how did you manage to avoid stumbling over
> >> django all these years?
> >> --
> >> regards
> >> KG
> >> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> >> Coimbatore LUG rox
> >> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org
> >
> > Hi KG,
> >
> > Pls dont drag the post unnecessarily. This is not your ilugc mailing
> list.
> >
> > KM
> >>
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups
> >> "Django users" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
> >>
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "Django users" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
> >
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django users" group.
> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>
>

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Re: Amazing work

[Jon J]

KG,

I've been a PHP developer for years and haven't reached outside of PHP
pretty much ever. After writing the same code over and over and
over and over and over again and always dealing with the same issues
(tweaking the database through a database manager, writing admin
interfaces, not having a broad enough codebase such as what Python
offers, solving the same problem over and over again, etc). I'm a very
disorganized person (it comes with the territory for programmers, I
imagine) and I don't have time to continually categorize and maintain
a personal common code base for every app I write. I love Django
because it cuts out all of the repetitive boring crap from the start
of a project. I'm sure that frameworks are available in PHP that are
similar, but to be honest I like Python a lot better than PHP because
it "feels" like a real programming language, and while PHP has its
virtues, I find myself using Python as often as possible to solve real
problems. Django literally forces me to abstract my code from
templating, which has traditionally been a problem when I've
collaborated with others on projects; designers assume they can code
and end up breaking the entire site. Now, I can delegate template
design entirely to the web designers and they can focus on their job
and I can do mine.


On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 10:15 PM, km  wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 08:56 -0600, Jon J wrote:
>> > I just stumbled upon django when looking for a good way to use Python
>> > in web programming,
>>
>> welcome to the club - btw, how did you manage to avoid stumbling over
>> django all these years?
>> --
>> regards
>> KG
>> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
>> Coimbatore LUG rox
>> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org
>
> Hi KG,
>
> Pls dont drag the post unnecessarily. This is not your ilugc mailing list.
>
> KM
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Django users" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django users" group.
> To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>

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Re: Amazing work

[km]

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote:

> On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 08:56 -0600, Jon J wrote:
> > I just stumbled upon django when looking for a good way to use Python
> > in web programming,
>
> welcome to the club - btw, how did you manage to avoid stumbling over
> django all these years?
> --
> regards
> KG
> http://lawgon.livejournal.com
> Coimbatore LUG rox
> http://ilugcbe.techstud.org
>
Hi KG,

Pls dont drag the post unnecessarily. This is not your ilugc mailing list.

KM

> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Django users" group.
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> django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en.
>
>

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Re: Amazing work

[Kenneth Gonsalves]

On Wed, 2011-02-02 at 08:56 -0600, Jon J wrote:
> I just stumbled upon django when looking for a good way to use Python
> in web programming, 

welcome to the club - btw, how did you manage to avoid stumbling over
django all these years?
-- 
regards
KG
http://lawgon.livejournal.com
Coimbatore LUG rox
http://ilugcbe.techstud.org/

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