Re: [Dng] dev-list
On 09/04/2015 10:37, Jaromil wrote: a -Dev list is there already, just not public and invite only. That's really a shame, because I would love to have access to that list - even read-only. Isn't it possible to open subscriptions while keeping posts moderated ? (posts from devs would be auto-approved, of course) -- Laurent ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
Author: Martijn Dekkers Date: 2015-04-08 00:35 -400 To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: Re: [Dng] dev-list Personally, my view is that there is no cost or significant effort to the project for splitting to -dev and -user. Those who are not interested in either of these lists don't have to subscribe, and don't have to deal with whatever it is they don't want to deal with. Gentle moderation becomes possible. systemd is evil? debian sucks? I don't know how to configure my WLAN card I bought on a flea market in Morocco 15 years ago for 2 Euro? - take it to -user. Systemd is evil and Debian sucks aren't part of a mature discussion for a budding OS. And I'm having trouble figuring out why devs would want to burrow down into a hole to produce a system for a community that could potentially be as reactionary and mean-spirited as that to which they claim to be opposed. Instead of gentle moderation, how about gently leading by example and making it clear this isn't the place for attacks on or blanket complaints about other OSes or software? -Jonathan On Thursday, April 9, 2015 7:07 AM, Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org wrote: On April 9, 2015 8:20:19 AM GMT+01:00, Martijn Dekkers devuan-li...@dekkers.org.uk wrote: I am neither the first, nor will I be the last, to ask for a -dev list. a -Dev list is there already, just not public and invite only. Even the take over of the Kremlin was done by leaving the hangry mob outside of its gates. *** I see another two groups: people who want to work together and build something different that won't end up in an isolated technical committee in their ivory towers, and bullies. we don't have towers, we have expertise and devs capable of recognizing it... You know what hellekin - you post from a dyne.org email address, and from the way you write you put yourself forward as one of the people running the project. Frankly, I am really not all that happy with your attitude, and as you represent dyne.org, I have no option but to assume this to be representative of the project leads in general. ...and obviously you are not able to recognize it. FWIW this public list is enough for now and I doubt we will open the Dev list to anyone without invites and after knowing each other. We have enough troubles with this and systemd fraudsters running a twitter account that presumes everything written on this public board is what Devuan says. kthxbye Martin ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
On Thu 09 April 2015 02:20:16 hellekin wrote: *** I see another two groups: people who want to work together and build something different that won't end up in an isolated technical committee in their ivory towers, and bullies. Sorry that's not to the point. Nobody at all talked about technical committee whether isolated or not. It's a *fact* that developers won't pay attention to ML or even fora that have a bad S/N ratio, since devels are interested in getting thing *done*, not *discussed* and derailed. And you won't force any devel to do such discussion in public and waste 90% of their time to act as 1st level helpdesk for users who quotewant to ask how to configure their desktop/quote You're trying to enforce an organizational rule (no TC) by means of a communication medium - it won't work, it never did (at least I never seen it pan out). Call me bully for that if you like, I don't care. And I prolly will cancel my registration for that ML for exactly the reasons of poor S/N, same reasons I never been happy to linger on #debianfork. And I bet a lot of devels already did same or are going to do so soonish. The discussion if we need a devel-ML is the best proof that we urgently need one where such discussion never would happen. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
On Thu, 2015-04-09 at 10:20 +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote: I am neither the first, nor will I be the last, to ask for a -dev list. *** I see another two groups: people who want to work together and build something different that won't end up in an isolated technical committee in their ivory towers, and bullies. I don't see anything mentioned about technical committees or ivory towers. Bullies, seriously? That's what happened with debian :( You know what hellekin - you post from a dyne.org email address, and from the way you write you put yourself forward as one of the people running the project. As far as I understood he is one of the VUAs, yes. Frankly, I am really not all that happy with your attitude, and as you represent dyne.org, I have no option but to assume this to be representative of the project leads in general. So far, quite a few people with: or interesting; or no-noise; or informative opinions; have left the list because of the lack of a -dev list, or a basic we don't like your type around here sentiment that lead them to think fuck it, this is a waste of time. I don't think people having serious interest in devuan have left, sorry. You can now count me amongst those in the fuck it, this is a waste of time camp. In what way would it be a waste of time? As I see it there are advantages and disadvantages with one mailing list: + doesn't separate users from developers, as in the debian case. - the signal to noise level can be low at times, but subject/user filtering in you mail clients can fix that. As voiced by other people before, use one list until there is a real need for a -dev list (at the risk of creating a debian situation). However, being subscribed to both debian-devel and debian-user for a long time I've soon unsubscribed from debian-user due to the incredibly high noise level of irrelevant postings or help requests :( As there is a large need for help from unexperienced people perhaps a devuan-help list is a better complement to the devuan list (and renaming dng to devuan-dev)? Good luck with your forum, your everyone use one list or GTFO attitude, the constant off-list clique forming and gossipy emails about list members off-list and best of luck to Devuan. I think that a forum could be good for people who wants to discuss various issues, as that would (hopefully) reduce the noise level on the mailing list. Personally I've never been fond of forums, they are hard to extract useful information from, and you have to use a web browser to access the postings (unless forwarded to a mailing list, please don't). On the other hand, IRC with #debianfork and #devuan fills about the same need, so? I'll be decommissioning the Jenkins slave I contributed, and will go get some work done. Please don't, that would be very unfortunate. Just my 5c. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 10:20:19AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote: [cut] You can now count me amongst those in the fuck it, this is a waste of time camp. Good luck with your forum, your everyone use one list or GTFO attitude, the constant off-list clique forming and gossipy emails about list members off-list and best of luck to Devuan. I'll be decommissioning the Jenkins slave I contributed, and will go get some work done. Well, tagging Devuan as a waste of time only because hellekin proposed to have a single ML plus a forum, and several people have expressed their opinion about this proposal, seems a bit of an overreaction to me :) But I guess I am missing something here. I also have not seen all this off-list chit-chatting that you mention, but if it was just gossipping around then I am happy I haven't. That's a waste of time, IMHO :) HND KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] two lists and developer disconnect (was: Re: dev-list)
Hi Jonathan, On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 4:23 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Jude, I wrote an email about some GUI features I'd like to see in the default DE for Devuan. Jaromil wrote a thoughtful response. As a result I'm willing to use the first stable release (and possibly beta release) and give feedback and/or bug reports. If that's the kind of thing that belongs on a tech list, then what's the purpose of this list? You've hit the nail on the head as to why I also recommended having a few guidelines on more specialized mailing lists. If Devuan goes towards multiple mailing lists, the guidelines should make it clear on the signup page which ML is appropriate for which topic (much like how a forum is organized by category). Also-- are the VUAs arguing for more lists actually arguing that more abstraction doesn't come with the cost of adding more complexity? (Especially given that there's already an invite-only dev list, so guaranteeing that any additional dev list would be a misnomer.) Not sure what you mean? I don't know anything more than you do about the private dev list (I'm not a VUA). Also-- what is the cost of advocating on _this_ list for more empathy and less meanness? Very little :) That's not the problem here, though (excluding trolls). The problem is that it's getting harder and harder to wade through the volume of uncategorized email to find only the tiny subset of them you're interested in reading. It's no one's fault that it's come to this, really--it's the expected emergent behavior of having a lot of enthusiastic people on a single mailing list. The conventional way to manage the volume of emails is to organize groups of conversations by topic somehow, to make it easier to find what you're looking for. -Jude -Jonathan On Thursday, April 9, 2015 2:10 PM, Jude Nelson jud...@gmail.com wrote: It has been suggested several times now that the reason Debian developers supposedly suffer a disconnect from Debian users is because there are dedicated -dev and -user mailing lists, where -dev is moderated to be development topics only. It has been suggested that because developers can simply ignore -user, they get disconnected from their needs. I don't think either of these conclusions are true. First, even if a DD isn't subscribed to any public Debian mailing list, (s)he still receives bug reports, feature requests, and direct emails from users. Moreover, the first two are public record. Wanting to ignore unrelated conversations is not a sign of disconnect. Second, disconnect can happen regardless of the ML structure--anyone can whitelist/blacklist email addresses belonging to people they don't want to listen to, and anyone can simply ignore an email message. Third, the biggest sources of toxicity in user/developer relations in Debian that I have seen are narcissism and the lack of empathy. I have seen prominent developers dismissing valid, constructive criticism with if you don't like it, fork it--it's open source after all and Linux is not about choice. I have also seen long-time Debian users bad-mouthing developers for not going through great lengths to support their pet use-case--nevermind the fact that the use-case applies only to them and is greatly outside the scope of the program. The ML structure will neither fix nor prevent bad behavior. However, it can mitigate its effect on the project. For this reason, I support Hendrik's idea of having a -tech mailing list for technical topics only (but that both users and developers can join). I also support having a few guidelines on more specialized mailing lists (should they be created) that describe what behavior is appropriate on them, as well as having a publicly-visible process in place for how to deal with people who abuse their list membership. Thanks, -Jude On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Martijn Dekkers devuan-li...@dekkers.org.uk wrote: We do not need another list. That's pretty arrogant. Can you back that up with some actual reasons, like others in this discussion are doing? Or is this simply a case of because I said so ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
On Thu, Apr 09, 2015 at 10:20:19AM +0300, Martijn Dekkers wrote: You know what hellekin - you post from a dyne.org email address, and from the way you write you put yourself forward as one of the people running the project. dyne.org != devun dyne.org != VUAs dyne.org is helping VUAs and devuan with services, work, resources, some vuas are also in dyne ( notabily Jaromil ), but please let separate things remain separate. -- Franco (nextime) Lanza Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy SIP://c...@casa.nexlab.it web: http://www.nexlab.net NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org you can download my public key at: http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers Key ID = D6132D50 Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 --- echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc --- signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
That's pretty arrogant. Can you back that up with some actual reasons, like others in this discussion are doing? Or is this simply a case of because I said so It's not arrogant, it's a fact. There's not even a single release, only a dozen or so regular participants, and you already want to detach developers from users? You're proposing to solve a problem that does not exist yet. People used to mailing lists use filters when they're annoyed with the traffic. I am neither the first, nor will I be the last, to ask for a -dev list. *** I see another two groups: people who want to work together and build something different that won't end up in an isolated technical committee in their ivory towers, and bullies. I don't see anything mentioned about technical committees or ivory towers. Bullies, seriously? You know what hellekin - you post from a dyne.org email address, and from the way you write you put yourself forward as one of the people running the project. Frankly, I am really not all that happy with your attitude, and as you represent dyne.org, I have no option but to assume this to be representative of the project leads in general. So far, quite a few people with: or interesting; or no-noise; or informative opinions; have left the list because of the lack of a -dev list, or a basic we don't like your type around here sentiment that lead them to think fuck it, this is a waste of time. You can now count me amongst those in the fuck it, this is a waste of time camp. Good luck with your forum, your everyone use one list or GTFO attitude, the constant off-list clique forming and gossipy emails about list members off-list and best of luck to Devuan. I'll be decommissioning the Jenkins slave I contributed, and will go get some work done. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
On Thu, 2015-04-09 at 12:00 +0200, Laurent Bercot wrote: For what is worth - and at risk of adding fuel to the fire, but I am just voicing my impressions and you guys will do what you want with it: Please direct me to the place where the technical discussions are happening; if they're supposed to happen here, well, sorry but that's not an efficient working environment, and I'll find information by other means. I agree with you about the low level of technical discussions here, but people leaving or pulling the plug of a build host just because a -dev list is not created *immediately* is very immature :( For technical discussions, I too have problems to filter out them in the noise level, but in addition to here, you have the #devuan IRC and the issues in gitlab https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/issues I'm hoping for some better ways to get the technical discussions filtered out, too. A forum is definitely not a solution, but maybe it can lower the noise level in this list :D ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
For what is worth - and at risk of adding fuel to the fire, but I am just voicing my impressions and you guys will do what you want with it: I have subscribed to this list five days ago, hoping to see technical discussions about how to design a distribution without systemd. I am the author of an alternative system (s6), and am interested in learning, among other things: - what systemd provides in today's distributions and needs replacing - what are the solutions chosen by devuan folks So far, in 5 days I've received about 100 messages, of which: - seven are of interest to me (the vdev part. I actually learned something, as I often do when Jude writes.) - more than one-third is the current meta discussion about the list -more than half of the rest is circlejerking or idle chatter. 7% is too low for me. Please don't suggest reader-side filters: - they are basically an admission of defeat in focusing the list's purpose - they still require writer-side effort, and they put burden on people who actually want to be cooperative. Honestly, I have nothing against circlejerking. It feels good, and I hate systemd as much as anyone here - probably more than most; so, seeing likeminded people is heartwarming. But my belief is that one of the main reasons systemd is winning is that its opponents spend too much energy talking about it and not enough designing alternatives - and so I'm here for action, not words. Please direct me to the place where the technical discussions are happening; if they're supposed to happen here, well, sorry but that's not an efficient working environment, and I'll find information by other means. -- Laurent ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] Some non technical considerations on dev lists
Hi all, I'm following the list since February, as I might have some time to spare at some point and help test/develop Devuan in the future (and migrate my machines to it). I did not write so far to avoid noise increase. Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2015 09:37:23 +0100 From: Jaromil jaro...@dyne.org On April 9, 2015 8:20:19 AM GMT+01:00, Martijn Dekkers devuan-li...@dekkers.org.uk wrote: I am neither the first, nor will I be the last, to ask for a -dev list. a -Dev list is there already, just not public and invite only. Even the take over of the Kremlin was done by leaving the hangry mob outside of its gates. Maybe it was a bad move to state that so late, Jaromil. IMHO it makes explicit that the general discussion list is Devuan's bait for trolls. There is a risk that even people who can help is bounced away. However, I agree that the current elightened tiranny of the VUA / main developers is the only sensible path, as we need devuan released before anything else and steer away trolls and unwanted attention. If you need to have a private ML to fend off noise, it's better to state that clearly, and now it is. I will try and continue following this list hoping to see enough tech discussion keep me up to date on devuan evoulution, and I hope I'll be able to contribute to devuan later on. I wish 1) to thank all the developers putting their work and spare time in making devuan a reality, as well as the testers 2) to ask everyone not having things go their own way in devuan, IF they really want to contribute, to thorougly consider the point of development of Devuan right now, before heating up. While it may make sense to discuss the needs of devuan as a distribution once it's ready, trying to steer resources (even just time) away from the devs right now is likely perceived by them as either suicidal or harassing behaviour. Keep your head cool and accept that some things are not prioritary to them. I wouldn't want someone beside me to try to change my C coding conventions while I'm deep in programming, so to speak: we should not disrupt the most important workflow, or there will be no distribution to discuss whatsoever. Cheers Massimo -- Eternity is a mere moment, just long enough for a joke.(H. Hesse) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
Oh wait, it wasn't offlist. On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Martijn Dekkers devuan-li...@dekkers.org.uk wrote: The «long standing, wide-ranging implementation pattern» thing is a bogus argument. Similar to Lots of people jump of bridges, care to join them? Thats just uninformed bullshit. Patterns are one of the cornerstones of modern computing architecture - without patterns everybody will be doomed to re-invent everything from the ground up. Comparing patterns with bridge-jumping is ridiculous, and not a little bit stupid. Separate lists are widely practiced in the open source community at large because they work, not because everybody else is doing it. Still, convoluted arguments, feeble attempt at insult, does seem like a troll. This discussion has gone from a simple request for a -dev list to a wide ranging discussion about how we can do something similar without actually going for the cheapest and easiest option (which is to have a separate list). Interestingly, I see two broad groups. Those that want a simple dev list, and those that absolutely don't want other people to have one, for the most tenuous of arguments. There's the third camp of people who believes a dev-only list will generate self-segregation, meaning devs will only read that list. This isn't a profecy. Too much noise, i'll stop reading this thread. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update
Hi Isaac, On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 7:04 PM, Isaac Dunham ibid...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 07, 2015 at 05:22:55PM -0400, Jude Nelson wrote: report every kind of device, since it listens to the kernel's driver core (i.e. libudev learns about network interfaces, buses, power supplies, etc.--stuff for which there are no device files Currently, it doesn't *report* devices; that takes something longer term, like inotify, polling a netlink socket, or listening to a daemon. It also has no clue about events or hardware that could not have a corresponding device, since it uses block/char and major:minor to find the hardware. I have a general idea of how to get information like this, by recursing through /sys or /dev, and I know of some code I could use as a starting point, but I don't know what the ideal format is. If someone points me at a program they'd like to use without libudev (preferably C with minimal dependencies) that doesn't cover a lot of ground (ie, it's clear what functionality udev provides, and I wouldn't need to duplicate much of libudev to get it working), that would be a good starting point for expanding libsysdev. You might find something useful in vdev_linux_sysfs_register_devices() and vdev_linux_sysfs_find_devices() functions in vdevd/os/linux.c. They're both involved in generating the initial coldplug device listing. They only need libc to work, and libvdev/sglib.h for basic data structures. I know how to get the devices that show up in /dev; I'm not sure about getting the sysfs entries that *don't* show up there. I'm also not sure how anything beyond this is used. Ah, my bad for misinterpreting your request. I found the sysfs rules overview from kernel.org helpful when I was working on this [1]. Basically, all devices (even ones without a major/minor number) are enumerated under /sys/devices/; the other directories under /sys/ all contain symlinks to device directories in /sys/devices/. Each device in /sys/devices/ has a uevent file that, when read, produces the payload of the netlink packet that the driver core would have sent when the device was added (note that some of them will be empty). The kernel organizes devices into a tree internally, which gets exported via sysfs. Each device has a globally-unique DEVPATH, which is the path to the device's directory under /sys/devices (except, DEVPATH omits the /sys prefix). Moreover, each device has a SUBSYSTEM that identifies the device's parent node in the device tree (which may or may not be a device itself). For example, PCI slot :ff:02.2 on my laptop has a DEVPATH of /devices/pci:ff/:ff:02.2. If you look in /sys/devices/pci:ff/:ff:02.2/, you'll see a symlink called subsystem that contains a symlink to the device's subsystem's device--in this case, ../../../bus/pci (the basename of the path in subystem is the device's subsystem name--in this case, pci). The contents of the DEVPATH directory in sysfs include device-specific attributes--usually stuff like serial numbers, vendor strings, power-related data, etc. Is this the information you were looking for? [1] https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysfs-rules.txt To avoid the troublesome corner case where a libudev client crashes and potentially leaves behind a directory in /dev/uevents/, I would recommend mounting runfs [1] on /dev/uevents. Runfs is a special FUSE filesystem I wrote a while back that ensures that the files created in it by a particular process get automatically unlinked when that process dies (it was originally meant for holding PID files). Hmm... Do we need to have a subdirectory of the mountpoint? Could you just use ACLs if you need to make a limited subset available? I get the impression that we can do this for mdev via a script along these lines: FILENAME=`env | sha512sum | cut -d' ' -f1` for f in /dev/uevents/* do env $f/$FILENAME done but it would be *nicer* if we only needed to write one file. I agree that one file per event is ideal (or even a circular logfile of events, if we could guarantee only one writer). However, I'm not sure yet what a fine-grained ACL for device events would look like. My motivation for per-client directories is that unprivileged clients can be made to see only its own events and no one else's by default (i.e. by chmod'ing the directory to 0700), and that they make it easy reason about sending post-processed events only to the clients you want--just change the list of directories to iterate over in that for-loop :) Which is not trivial in shell, unless you have a special command to do the work of figuring out which which directories get what. ...which seems to make doing this in shell pointless, since the corresponding C is nearly as trivial. I don't yet know what the policy declaration and
Re: [Dng] dev-list
On Thu 09 April 2015 11:27:45 Franco Lanza wrote: all of those open to anyone, without restriction on WHO can join, but with restriction on WHAT can be considered in topic and what not. (plus all the rest) Absolutely to the point. Thanks! Exactly what we see everywhere else *WORKING*. And assuming that a multipke strictly on-topic ML were what happened to debian is... not worth arguing it, just silly. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] need two lists, but don''t separate users from developers.
On Thu 09 April 2015 08:58:00 Renaud OLGIATI wrote: Drawback: If a discussion starts on Non-Technical about modification of the Technical list (eg: moving the format to a forum) those who only read the Technical list will not know about the proposed change... Which is not a drawback but exactly how it's supposed to be. When any proposal for change reaped sufficiently to actually make a decision, the ML being subject to such change will receive a note about such decision making process pending (though you don't seriously assume that users reading both ML wouldn't spread the word in the ML that's subject to change). Until then the topic is off topic for the dev ML and no user of that dev ML will complain. But the whole topic is already moot. Jaromil explained that there's already a dev-ML and that it's closed (guess why ;-D ) and so the segregation of developers you try to avoid is already an established fact. Nevertheless this whole segregation thing is nonsense since you can't force devels to read a noisy irrelevant ML, no matter what you do. Multiple ML are about keeping stuff on topic in each of them. Nobody can guarantee any devel will read a single post in any of them. But chances they do are the higher the better the S/N ratio aka on-topic. /j signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] dev-list
hi, On Fri, 10 Apr 2015, Brad Campbell wrote: On 09/04/15 23:56, Laurent Bercot wrote: On 09/04/2015 10:37, Jaromil wrote: a -Dev list is there already, just not public and invite only. That's really a shame, because I would love to have access to that list - even read-only. Isn't it possible to open subscriptions while keeping posts moderated ? (posts from devs would be auto-approved, of course) This +1. I don't need to post, and in fact it's probably better if I don't, but I actually *really* want to see what is going on under the bonnet. I joined the dng list for probably the same reasons everyone else did. I want to *use* what is produced and even possibly contribute (bug reports and patches I suppose are my limits). I do understand the technical components, and I don't want to ask user level questions. thanks for your interest and for believing this project is worth looking at. I think it will not delude you. however, there is much less going on via mail, than via git. if you want to follow up then subscribe to https://git.devuan.org and follow the updates. in particular: all projects in this group, the base packages we are modifying https://git.devuan.org/groups/packages-base the repository software Nextime is writing, amprolla https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/amprolla the SDK I'm developing, used for package maintainance and to bake isos and vms https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-sdk the patches to jenkins-debian-glue by Nextime https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/jenkins-devuan-glue today included upstream! in case this is used by Debian Jessie https://github.com/mika/jenkins-debian-glue/blob/master/debian/changelog then we can officially say that Debian is already using and benefitting from our development ;^) the releasebot triggering builds from gitlab to jenkins https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/devuan-releasebot the Vdev repository by Jude https://git.devuan.org/pkgs-utopia-substitution/vdev I will say I'm completely disillusioned by the quantity of pontificating and bike-shedding that seems to dominate this list and I'd love to read a list with actual technical substance. the latest news to celebrate about: we have a CI that succesfully builds packages now also for the following platforms armel, armhs, sparc, mips, mipsel, ppc, ppc64, arm64, s390x, m68k (recently announced by nextime on IRC) Don't lock us out. Moderate us, or create a read-only gateway, but don't isolate us. Please. this is what we can do atm. if you have time, then please activate yourself and help! we need someone to gather news like DWN was doing developers are at full capacity and cannot commit to more than this. bikeshedding at this point is simply ignored. ciao signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
