Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 17:15:25 -0400, Fsmithred wrote: > On 06/12/2015 10:45 AM, Irrwahn wrote: >> FWIW, I've got three Devuan installations running: jessie VM, ascii VM, >> ascii on real hardware. In all of them I was able to get everything >> (including shutdown et. al) working without systemd, except libsystemd0 >> is ATM still needed for gvfs, pulse, cups, sane, syslog - until those >> packages are disinfected as well. > > HOW??? I've only been able to do that by pulling in packages from the > angband repo (or by renaming the above named file). Are you running xfce > and lightdm? Oh yeah, I did it a third way - give user sudo privs with > nopasswd for shutdown and reboot. Yes, all setups are running xfce4, one with slim, the other two with lightdm. I actually planned to do another install using the alpha2 installer, logging all the necessary steps and write up a walk-through. Alas, I couldn't find the time yet, hopefully I'll get it done this weekend. In the meantime, just in case you might be interested in using it for reference, at http://www.pastebin.ca/3025993 you can find the output of dpgk --list, produced on one up-to-date, frugal (has no cups, pulse, sane, but has gvfs) Devuan jessie install. HTH, Cheers Urban ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/12/2015 10:45 AM, Irrwahn wrote: > When there's a /lib/systemd/systemd-logind, then not all the systemd > packages were purged properly. :-) Anyway, IIRC dimkr is already working > on a fix for the logind/consolekit clash. Yeah, I know. That file was gone after I removed the systemd packages, and it returned when I reinstalled them. I'm going to repeat the installation and make before and after package lists, to see if I can figure out why the login buttons don't work after reinstalling the systemd packages. I can at least rule out the possibility that some important package didn't get reinstalled. > > FWIW, I've got three Devuan installations running: jessie VM, ascii VM, > ascii on real hardware. In all of them I was able to get everything > (including shutdown et. al) working without systemd, except libsystemd0 > is ATM still needed for gvfs, pulse, cups, sane, syslog - until those > packages are disinfected as well. HOW??? I've only been able to do that by pulling in packages from the angband repo (or by renaming the above named file). Are you running xfce and lightdm? Oh yeah, I did it a third way - give user sudo privs with nopasswd for shutdown and reboot. fsr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 09:54:06 -0400, Fsmithred wrote: > On 06/12/2015 09:33 AM, Irrwahn wrote: >> - Make sure you're using sysvinit-core as init system, and slim or lightdm >> as >> your display manager. >> >> - Purge everything *systemd*! However, you may want to keep libsystemd0, in >> case you want to use gvfs, cups, pulse or anything else that (still) >> depends >> on it. >> >> - Install: policykit-1, consolekit, libpam-ck-connector, upower >> >> - A reboot at this point should be in order, not sure if it's exactly >> necessary. > > policykit-1, consolekit, libpam-ck-connector, upower were all installed > already. What I don't understand is why the shutdown/reboot didn't start > working again when I reinstalled systemd, libpam-systemd and systemd-shim > (and rebooted). PID1 is init, and /sbin/init is not a symlink. Also, > libsystemd0 was not removed at any time. > > What does fix it is to do something dimkr had me do when I was testing > alpha1 - rename/move /lib/systemd/systemd-logind. All the buttons work > after that. When there's a /lib/systemd/systemd-logind, then not all the systemd packages were purged properly. :-) Anyway, IIRC dimkr is already working on a fix for the logind/consolekit clash. FWIW, I've got three Devuan installations running: jessie VM, ascii VM, ascii on real hardware. In all of them I was able to get everything (including shutdown et. al) working without systemd, except libsystemd0 is ATM still needed for gvfs, pulse, cups, sane, syslog - until those packages are disinfected as well. Cheers, Urban ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/12/2015 09:33 AM, Irrwahn wrote: > fsmithred wrote on 12.06.2015 14:40: >> >> Not the OP here, and not exactly what you're asking, but here's what I did >> yesterday: >> >> Installed devuan-alpha2-amd64 netinstall iso in virtualbox. At tasksel, I >> un-checked Print Server and Devuan Desktop Environment, and I checked >> XFCE. All seemed to be working well after install. >> >> >> dpkg -l | grep systemd >> ii libpam-systemd:amd64 215-17+deb8u1 >> amd64system and service manager - PAM module >> ii libsystemd0:amd64 215-17+deb8u1 >> amd64systemd utility library >> ii systemd 215-17+deb8u1 >> amd64system and service manager >> ii systemd-shim 9-1 >> amd64shim for systemd >> >> >> 'aptitude why' pointed to task-xfce-desktop as the reason for systemd >> packages, so I attempted to remove that. >> >> 'apt-get -s remove task-xfce-desktop libpam-systemd systemd' gave me a >> long list of packages that were no longer needed and were set to >> autoremove. (See below for the full list.) So I apt-get installed that >> list of packages and then I could remove systemd, systemd-shim and >> libpam-systemd without losing my whole desktop environment. >> >> After that, shutdown and reboot buttons stopped working in xfce and >> lightdm. Only logout from the desktop worked, bringing me to the login >> screen. >> >> Then I added back systemd, systemd-shim and libpam-systemd. Desktop >> buttons are no longer gray, but shutdown and reboot only bring me to the >> lightdm login screen. Power button choices in lightdm are all grayed out. >> That's not what I expected, and I don't know what's different from the >> original install. If I get a chance to do it again, I can make full >> packages lists before and after to see if something else got removed but >> not reinstalled. > > The following might help (no guarantees, it's from the top of my head - don't > have my notes at hand right now): > > - Make sure you're using sysvinit-core as init system, and slim or lightdm as > your display manager. > > - Purge everything *systemd*! However, you may want to keep libsystemd0, in > case you want to use gvfs, cups, pulse or anything else that (still) > depends > on it. > > - Install: policykit-1, consolekit, libpam-ck-connector, upower > > - A reboot at this point should be in order, not sure if it's exactly > necessary. > > HTH, Regards, > Urban policykit-1, consolekit, libpam-ck-connector, upower were all installed already. What I don't understand is why the shutdown/reboot didn't start working again when I reinstalled systemd, libpam-systemd and systemd-shim (and rebooted). PID1 is init, and /sbin/init is not a symlink. Also, libsystemd0 was not removed at any time. What does fix it is to do something dimkr had me do when I was testing alpha1 - rename/move /lib/systemd/systemd-logind. All the buttons work after that. fsr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
fsmithred wrote on 12.06.2015 14:40: > > Not the OP here, and not exactly what you're asking, but here's what I did > yesterday: > > Installed devuan-alpha2-amd64 netinstall iso in virtualbox. At tasksel, I > un-checked Print Server and Devuan Desktop Environment, and I checked > XFCE. All seemed to be working well after install. > > > dpkg -l | grep systemd > ii libpam-systemd:amd64 215-17+deb8u1 > amd64system and service manager - PAM module > ii libsystemd0:amd64 215-17+deb8u1 > amd64systemd utility library > ii systemd 215-17+deb8u1 > amd64system and service manager > ii systemd-shim 9-1 > amd64shim for systemd > > > 'aptitude why' pointed to task-xfce-desktop as the reason for systemd > packages, so I attempted to remove that. > > 'apt-get -s remove task-xfce-desktop libpam-systemd systemd' gave me a > long list of packages that were no longer needed and were set to > autoremove. (See below for the full list.) So I apt-get installed that > list of packages and then I could remove systemd, systemd-shim and > libpam-systemd without losing my whole desktop environment. > > After that, shutdown and reboot buttons stopped working in xfce and > lightdm. Only logout from the desktop worked, bringing me to the login screen. > > Then I added back systemd, systemd-shim and libpam-systemd. Desktop > buttons are no longer gray, but shutdown and reboot only bring me to the > lightdm login screen. Power button choices in lightdm are all grayed out. > That's not what I expected, and I don't know what's different from the > original install. If I get a chance to do it again, I can make full > packages lists before and after to see if something else got removed but > not reinstalled. The following might help (no guarantees, it's from the top of my head - don't have my notes at hand right now): - Make sure you're using sysvinit-core as init system, and slim or lightdm as your display manager. - Purge everything *systemd*! However, you may want to keep libsystemd0, in case you want to use gvfs, cups, pulse or anything else that (still) depends on it. - Install: policykit-1, consolekit, libpam-ck-connector, upower - A reboot at this point should be in order, not sure if it's exactly necessary. HTH, Regards, Urban ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 04:11:12AM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: > > Anyway, differently from debian, even in the alpha stage in devuan you > can, right now and avoiding some packages like gnome things, have a > completely systemd install. But it's NOT ready, it's NOT release, it's Might you mean "completely systemd-free install"? > an alpha! -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 08:40:44 -0400 fsmithred wrote: > After that, shutdown and reboot buttons stopped working in xfce and > lightdm. Only logout from the desktop worked, bringing me to the > login screen. This has been the bane of my existence since long before systemd. Sometimes my logout and reboot buttons worked, sometimes they were gray, and sometimes they just exited the wm/de. And like fsmithred, once systemd came along and I jumpered across it with another pid1, those buttons almost never worked. I think Devuan should create four can't-miss shellscripts, for these four use cases: * poweroff * reboot * hybernate * suspend On our supported wm/de's that have buttons for these things, those buttons should invoke those shellscripts directly. Obviously, there would need to be a way for those shellscripts to access policykit. SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 02:17 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: > Hi Clarke, > > Can you: > * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed (something like > "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? > * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? > > Thanks, > Jude > Not the OP here, and not exactly what you're asking, but here's what I did yesterday: Installed devuan-alpha2-amd64 netinstall iso in virtualbox. At tasksel, I un-checked Print Server and Devuan Desktop Environment, and I checked XFCE. All seemed to be working well after install. dpkg -l | grep systemd ii libpam-systemd:amd64 215-17+deb8u1 amd64system and service manager - PAM module ii libsystemd0:amd64 215-17+deb8u1 amd64systemd utility library ii systemd 215-17+deb8u1 amd64system and service manager ii systemd-shim 9-1 amd64shim for systemd 'aptitude why' pointed to task-xfce-desktop as the reason for systemd packages, so I attempted to remove that. 'apt-get -s remove task-xfce-desktop libpam-systemd systemd' gave me a long list of packages that were no longer needed and were set to autoremove. (See below for the full list.) So I apt-get installed that list of packages and then I could remove systemd, systemd-shim and libpam-systemd without losing my whole desktop environment. After that, shutdown and reboot buttons stopped working in xfce and lightdm. Only logout from the desktop worked, bringing me to the login screen. Then I added back systemd, systemd-shim and libpam-systemd. Desktop buttons are no longer gray, but shutdown and reboot only bring me to the lightdm login screen. Power button choices in lightdm are all grayed out. That's not what I expected, and I don't know what's different from the original install. If I get a chance to do it again, I can make full packages lists before and after to see if something else got removed but not reinstalled. HTH, fsr crda dns-root-data dnsmasq-base espeak-data exfalso fonts-freefont-ttf gimp 25gimp-data gir1.2-atspi-2.0 gir1.2-gst-plugins-base-1.0 gir1.2-gstreamer-1.0 26gir1.2-gtksource-3.0 gir1.2-keybinder-3.0 gir1.2-wnck-3.0 27gnome-accessibility-themes gnome-orca gnome-themes-standard 28gnome-themes-standard-data gtk2-engines-pixbuf hyphen-en-us iputils-arping 29iw javascript-common libamd2.3.1 libao-common libao4 libass5 libatk-adaptor 30libaudio2 libavformat56 libbabl-0.1-0 libbasicusageenvironment0 31libbluetooth3 libbrlapi0.6 libcamd2.3.1 libccolamd2.8.0 libcddb2 32libcholmod2.1.2 libchromaprint0 libdc1394-22 libdca0 libdirectfb-1.2-9 33libdiscid0 libdotconf0 libdvbpsi9 libebml4 libenca0 libespeak1 libfaad2 34libflite1 libfreerdp-cache1.1 libfreerdp-client1.1 libfreerdp-codec1.1 35libfreerdp-common1.1.0 libfreerdp-core1.1 libfreerdp-crypto1.1 36libfreerdp-gdi1.1 libfreerdp-locale1.1 libfreerdp-primitives1.1 37libfreerdp-utils1.1 libgail-common libgail18 libgegl-0.2-0 libgimp2.0 38libgme0 libgpod-common libgpod4 libgroupsock4 libgtksourceview-3.0-1 39libgtksourceview-3.0-common libilmbase6 libiso9660-8 libjs-jquery 40libjs-sphinxdoc libjs-underscore libkate1 libkeybinder-3.0-0 41liblightdm-gobject-1-0 liblircclient0 liblivemedia42 liblouis-data liblouis2 42liblua5.2-0 libmatroska6 libmbim-glib4 libmbim-proxy libmm-glib0 libmng1 43libmodplug1 libmpcdec6 libmtp-common libmtp-runtime libmtp9 libndp0 44libnetfilter-conntrack3 libnl-3-200 libnl-genl-3-200 libnl-route-3-200 45libnm-glib-vpn1 libnm-glib4 libnm-gtk-common libnm-gtk0 libnm-util2 46libopenexr6 libopenraw1 libportaudio2 libpostproc53 libqmi-glib1 47libqmi-proxy libqt4-dbus libqt4-xml libqtcore4 libqtdbus4 libqtgui4 48libreoffice-gtk libresid-builder0c2a libsdl-image1.2 libsdl1.2debian 49libsgutils2-2 libshine3 libsidplay2 libsonic0 libspeechd2 libswscale3 50libteamdctl0 libtidy-0.99-0 libumfpack5.6.2 libupnp6 libusageenvironment2 51libva-drm1 libva-x11-1 libvcdinfo0 libvlc5 libvlccore8 libvncclient0 52libwinpr-crt0.1 libwinpr-crypto0.1 libwinpr-dsparse0.1 53libwinpr-environment0.1 libwinpr-file0.1 libwinpr-handle0.1 libwinpr-heap0.1 54libwinpr-input0.1 libwinpr-interlocked0.1 libwinpr-library0.1 55libwinpr-path0.1 libwinpr-pool0.1 libwinpr-registry0.1 libwinpr-rpc0.1 56libwinpr-sspi0.1 libwinpr-synch0.1 libwinpr-sysinfo0.1 libwinpr-thread0.1 57libwinpr-utils0.1 libwmf0.2-7 libwnck-3-0 libwnck-3-common libxcb-composite0 58libxcb-keysyms1 libxcb-randr0 libxcb-xv0 lightdm lightdm-gtk-greeter 59media-player-info mobile-broadband-provider-info modemmanager python-cddb 60python-feedparser python-musicbrainz2 python-mutagen python-pyinotify 61python-utidylib python3-brlapi python3-cairo python3-gi python3-lou
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 02:38:30PM +0530, Gautam Nath wrote: > We all are sure that you will take care of those things in case of fresh > installation. This will take some more time only. Heartfull of thanks. > > I am a general user and sourcing devuan/merged repositary. This might be > better that all bad stuff will be deleted on regular (upgrade)dist-upgrade. > For final pruning on update there may be a wellcome massage to galaxy. And > a todo/wiki is also desiarable. > Any sugar or milk in your coffee? :D -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
We all are sure that you will take care of those things in case of fresh installation. This will take some more time only. Heartfull of thanks. I am a general user and sourcing devuan/merged repositary. This might be better that all bad stuff will be deleted on regular (upgrade)dist-upgrade. For final pruning on update there may be a wellcome massage to galaxy. And a todo/wiki is also desiarable. Cheers gnath On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 8:07 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 04:11:12 +0200 > Franco Lanza wrote: > > > > Anyway, differently from debian, even in the alpha stage in devuan you > > can, right now and avoiding some packages like gnome things, have a > > completely systemd install. > > Even more to the point, unlike Debian, with Devuan Alpha 2 you can run > an OS whose PID1 isn't systemd. I think tying everything else to PID1 > was most peoples' major complaint, although by now most of us want to > completely purge the init that shall not be mentioned. > > > Let's the haters hate, and > > Man, and they do hate, don't they. On my local LUG I posted how I > created LittKit to give Daemontools ordered startup capability, never > mentioning any init system, and right away it turned into a cheering > session for systemd, and dissing of anyone who wasn't with the program. > Sheesh, all I did was write about Free Software to make daemontools > more capable. > > > let's us all work for the good. > > Yeah, that's why I'm proud to be friends with you guys. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence > http://www.troubleshooters.com/key > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 04:11:12 +0200 Franco Lanza wrote: > Anyway, differently from debian, even in the alpha stage in devuan you > can, right now and avoiding some packages like gnome things, have a > completely systemd install. Even more to the point, unlike Debian, with Devuan Alpha 2 you can run an OS whose PID1 isn't systemd. I think tying everything else to PID1 was most peoples' major complaint, although by now most of us want to completely purge the init that shall not be mentioned. > Let's the haters hate, and Man, and they do hate, don't they. On my local LUG I posted how I created LittKit to give Daemontools ordered startup capability, never mentioning any init system, and right away it turned into a cheering session for systemd, and dissing of anyone who wasn't with the program. Sheesh, all I did was write about Free Software to make daemontools more capable. > let's us all work for the good. Yeah, that's why I'm proud to be friends with you guys. SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 06:49:55AM -0700, Go Linux wrote: > I have been wondering about this. There have been posts over at FDN putting > down Devuan because there were still systemd packages installed. So is > Devuan free of systemd libs or not? IIRC the Valentine's release had some > systemd stuff but I thought it had all been eradicated by now. > > Sorry haven't been able to test. Still down with a bad back. > The images are still in *ALPHA*. Alpha, for us, would say "not yet complete". Not yet complete would say, for devuan, "not all packages have been recompiled yet". So, basically, we have a complete and working infrastructure ( not yet finished, there is a lot of work to do, but it's "enough" for the release ), there are many packages in our repository ( without systemd dependencies ), there are other packages in our gitlab that aren't yet in repository ( so, in the repository the same packages are coming from debian, WITH systemd dependency in some case ), there are packages not yet in our gitlab. Also, the debian-installer for devuan isn't yet finished, some rebranding are still needed, some fixes are still needed, and, more than anything else, the indices and override on the repository side is to be completed. For this reason if you install using the alpha there are still packages from debian that in a final devuan install will not be installed at all, and other with "wrong" dependencies, and then you finish the install by having systemd installed if you download the "wrong" packages, like, for example, gdm. Anyway, differently from debian, even in the alpha stage in devuan you can, right now and avoiding some packages like gnome things, have a completely systemd install. But it's NOT ready, it's NOT release, it's an alpha! When ALL needed packages will be ready AND overrides on the apt repository will be complete we will release a BETA version. You can assume the beta version should be completely systemd free by default, if it will not, it's a bug. When beta will be considered stable and we will be 100% sure it's completely systemd free, the beta will be marked as "release candidate", and eventually will be renamed as stable release. We are not fast building a toasting an iso, we are hardly working to create a stable, complete a future proof distro, with a stable, complete, future proof infrastructure. Let's the haters hate, and let's us all work for the good. Hope this clarify things. -- Franco (nextime) Lanza Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy SIP://c...@casa.nexlab.it web: http://www.nexlab.net NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org you can download my public key at: http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers Key ID = D6132D50 Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 --- echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc --- signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:17:30 -0400 Jude Nelson wrote: > Hi Clarke, > > Can you: > * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed > (something like "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? > * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? > > Thanks, > Jude I'll do it too. I have Devuan Alpha 64 bit installed in a VirtualBox VM, and AFAIK my only installed windowmanager/desktop is LXDE: == search systemd | egrep ^i i libsystemd0 - systemd utility library i systemd - system and service manager == == apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 libsystemd0 Reverse Depends: weston transmission-daemon tgt systemd-dbg systemd python3-systemd libsystemd-dev syslog-ng-core stunnel4 spice-vdagent sane-utils remctl-server realmd pulseaudio libpulse0 php5-fpm packagekit onak nsca-ng-server network-manager libmutter0e monopd mate-session-manager mate-screensaver light-locker libvirt0 libvirt-daemon-system libvirt-daemon libvirt-clients libguestfs0 lbcd knot-libs knot iodine inn libghc-libsystemd-journal-dev gvfs-daemons gnome-system-monitor gnome-shell gnome-session-bin gnome-screensaver gnome-logs gnome-disk-utility libgdm1 gdm3 fcgiwrap erlang-base-hipe erlang-base cups-daemon clamav-daemon cinnamon-settings-daemon cinnamon-session cinnamon-screensaver beanstalkd apt-cacher-ng acpi-fakekey libaccountsservice0 mpd == == apt-cache rdepends systemd systemd Reverse Depends: tuxonice-userui systemd-ui systemd-shim udev systemd-sysv systemd-sysv systemd-dbg libsystemd-dev libsystemd-dev libpam-systemd solaar sogo |mate-power-manager lxsession live-config-systemd lighttpd libvirt-daemon-system |libguestfs0 knot init-system-helpers gummiboot sysvinit-utils == SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 02:17 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi Clarke, Can you: * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed (something like "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? Hi Jude, * *Here they are as requested on a new 64bit expert install with XFCE selected as the desktop. HTH Clarke * aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i ** * i A libpam-systemd - system and service manager - PAM module i libsystemd0 - systemd utility library i systemd - system and service manager i A systemd-shim- shim for systemd *apt-cache rdepends libpam-systemd *libpam-systemd Reverse Depends: xfce4-session xfce4-power-manager systemd network-manager |lightdm gnome-settings-daemon gnome-session-bin gnome-bluetooth gdm3 argyll *apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0* libsystemd0 Reverse Depends: weston transmission-daemon tgt systemd-dbg systemd python3-systemd libsystemd-dev syslog-ng-core stunnel4 spice-vdagent sane-utils remctl-server realmd pulseaudio libpulse0 php5-fpm packagekit onak nsca-ng-server network-manager libmutter0e monopd mate-session-manager mate-screensaver light-locker libvirt0 libvirt-daemon-system libvirt-daemon libvirt-clients libguestfs0 lbcd knot-libs knot iodine inn libghc-libsystemd-journal-dev gvfs-daemons gnome-system-monitor gnome-shell gnome-session-bin gnome-screensaver gnome-logs gnome-disk-utility libgdm1 gdm3 fcgiwrap erlang-base-hipe erlang-base cups-daemon clamav-daemon cinnamon-settings-daemon cinnamon-session cinnamon-screensaver beanstalkd apt-cacher-ng acpi-fakekey libaccountsservice0 mpd *apt-cache rdepends systemd* systemd Reverse Depends: tuxonice-userui systemd-ui systemd-shim udev systemd-sysv systemd-sysv systemd-dbg libsystemd-dev libsystemd-dev libpam-systemd solaar sogo |mate-power-manager lxsession live-config-systemd lighttpd libvirt-daemon-system |libguestfs0 knot init-system-helpers gummiboot sysvinit-utils *apt-cache rdepends systemd-shim *systemd-shim Reverse Depends: |xfce4-session systemd |libpam-systemd init-select ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 02:17 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi Clarke, Can you: * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed (something like "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? Hi Jude, I'll do a reinstall this evening and get back to you. Work is calling right now. Clarke ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
Hi Clarke, Can you: * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed (something like "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? Thanks, Jude On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Clarke Sideroad wrote: > On 06/11/2015 11:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > >> On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:35:34 -0400 >> Clarke Sideroad wrote: >> >> It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and >>> installed systemd. >>> It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and >>> subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the >>> embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where >>> it picked up the systemd along that path. >>> >>> Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, >>> PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits >>> I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in >>> place. >>> >>> Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from >>> simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. >>> >>> Clarke >>> >> Hi Clarke, >> >> First, from what I understand, the microsecond you get Devuan Alpha 2 >> installed, go into /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the two from >> debian, leaving only the ones from devuan. I think that will help some. >> >> Second, my understanding is that NetworkManager and PulseAudio are so >> thoroughly infested with systemd that it's better to purge them from >> your system, like you'd throw a bedbug-ridden mattress into the >> dumpster. No use having that stuff hanging around. I **love** what >> they've done with Wicd, putting it on the menu right there in front of >> your face. Nice! >> >> Third, what leads you to the conclusion that your system installed >> systemd? On my VM-hosted Alpha-2 with LXDE, I have a whole bunch of >> files and directories with "systemd" in their names, but I think it has >> nothing to do with my bootup. >> >> To prove I was initting with sysvinit, I wrote the following >> shellscript called /root/testdaemon.sh: >> >> >> #!/bin/sh >> while true; do >>date >> /tmp/junk.log >>sleep 5 >> done >> >> >> The preceding program, when run, appends the time to /tmp/junk.log >> every five seconds, a thing you can see with the following command: >> >> tail -f /tmp/junk.log >> >> Then I put the following line right at the bottom of my /etc/inittab: >> >> SV:12345:respawn:/root/testdaemon.sh >> >> After I rebooted, /tmp/junk.log kept being appended, meaning that >> inittab was being read, meaning that sysvinit is doing the initting. >> >> >> Hi Steve, > > These were fresh UEFI hard drive installs not a VM. > From what I can see systemd is being installed with the base installation > in both jessie and ceres. > No debian in my sources.list only deb and deb-src devuan was in there, > either for jessie or ceres depending on the installation choice. > I noticed Sysvinit was being installed during the second install phase, > but on the boot I have systemd. > Maybe it is the init chooser that is defaulting to systemd. > > To confirm the installation of systemd, I checked by doing a search with > Synaptic and sure enough the slimy thing was there with a green box next to > it. > > I hope to mess with this later but it has swallowed too much of my time > already today. > I nuked the install and have returned to my hacked Debian version. > > Clarke > > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 11:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote: On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:35:34 -0400 Clarke Sideroad wrote: It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and installed systemd. It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where it picked up the systemd along that path. Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in place. Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. Clarke Hi Clarke, First, from what I understand, the microsecond you get Devuan Alpha 2 installed, go into /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the two from debian, leaving only the ones from devuan. I think that will help some. Second, my understanding is that NetworkManager and PulseAudio are so thoroughly infested with systemd that it's better to purge them from your system, like you'd throw a bedbug-ridden mattress into the dumpster. No use having that stuff hanging around. I **love** what they've done with Wicd, putting it on the menu right there in front of your face. Nice! Third, what leads you to the conclusion that your system installed systemd? On my VM-hosted Alpha-2 with LXDE, I have a whole bunch of files and directories with "systemd" in their names, but I think it has nothing to do with my bootup. To prove I was initting with sysvinit, I wrote the following shellscript called /root/testdaemon.sh: #!/bin/sh while true; do date >> /tmp/junk.log sleep 5 done The preceding program, when run, appends the time to /tmp/junk.log every five seconds, a thing you can see with the following command: tail -f /tmp/junk.log Then I put the following line right at the bottom of my /etc/inittab: SV:12345:respawn:/root/testdaemon.sh After I rebooted, /tmp/junk.log kept being appended, meaning that inittab was being read, meaning that sysvinit is doing the initting. Hi Steve, These were fresh UEFI hard drive installs not a VM. From what I can see systemd is being installed with the base installation in both jessie and ceres. No debian in my sources.list only deb and deb-src devuan was in there, either for jessie or ceres depending on the installation choice. I noticed Sysvinit was being installed during the second install phase, but on the boot I have systemd. Maybe it is the init chooser that is defaulting to systemd. To confirm the installation of systemd, I checked by doing a search with Synaptic and sure enough the slimy thing was there with a green box next to it. I hope to mess with this later but it has swallowed too much of my time already today. I nuked the install and have returned to my hacked Debian version. Clarke ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 09:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > > Hi Clarke, > > First, from what I understand, the microsecond you get Devuan Alpha 2 > installed, go into /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the two from > debian, leaving only the ones from devuan. I think that will help some. > > > Third, what leads you to the conclusion that your system installed > systemd? On my VM-hosted Alpha-2 with LXDE, I have a whole bunch of > files and directories with "systemd" in their names, but I think it has > nothing to do with my bootup. > Just to mention I installed the netboot alpha2 i386 disc last Friday. Selected Expert and Ceres install. I only selected the SSH server and nothing else as I like to have as much of a bootstrapped system as I can. Systemd was installed at this time. After the installation was completed I purged systemd and installed sysvinit. Talking on the IRC, it seems that most of the work is being put into Jessie and Ascii and Ceres are later. Chris ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:35:34 -0400 Clarke Sideroad wrote: > It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and > installed systemd. > It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and > subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the > embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where > it picked up the systemd along that path. > > Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, > PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits > I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in > place. > > Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from > simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. > > Clarke Hi Clarke, First, from what I understand, the microsecond you get Devuan Alpha 2 installed, go into /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the two from debian, leaving only the ones from devuan. I think that will help some. Second, my understanding is that NetworkManager and PulseAudio are so thoroughly infested with systemd that it's better to purge them from your system, like you'd throw a bedbug-ridden mattress into the dumpster. No use having that stuff hanging around. I **love** what they've done with Wicd, putting it on the menu right there in front of your face. Nice! Third, what leads you to the conclusion that your system installed systemd? On my VM-hosted Alpha-2 with LXDE, I have a whole bunch of files and directories with "systemd" in their names, but I think it has nothing to do with my bootup. To prove I was initting with sysvinit, I wrote the following shellscript called /root/testdaemon.sh: #!/bin/sh while true; do date >> /tmp/junk.log sleep 5 done The preceding program, when run, appends the time to /tmp/junk.log every five seconds, a thing you can see with the following command: tail -f /tmp/junk.log Then I put the following line right at the bottom of my /etc/inittab: SV:12345:respawn:/root/testdaemon.sh After I rebooted, /tmp/junk.log kept being appended, meaning that inittab was being read, meaning that sysvinit is doing the initting. SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 06:49:55AM -0700, Go Linux wrote: [cut] > > - > > I have been wondering about this. There have been posts over at FDN putting > down Devuan because there were still systemd packages installed. So is > Devuan free of systemd libs or not? IIRC the Valentine's release had some > systemd stuff but I thought it had all been eradicated by now. > > Sorry haven't been able to test. Still down with a bad back. > I think those images are still to be considered Alpha, not stable, as also explicitly stated by Jaromil in his email... HND KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, 6/11/15, Clarke Sideroad wrote: Subject: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Thursday, June 11, 2015, 7:35 AM It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and installed systemd. It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where it picked up the systemd along that path. Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in place. Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. Clarke - I have been wondering about this. There have been posts over at FDN putting down Devuan because there were still systemd packages installed. So is Devuan free of systemd libs or not? IIRC the Valentine's release had some systemd stuff but I thought it had all been eradicated by now. Sorry haven't been able to test. Still down with a bad back. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
