Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 06:55:01PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:09:50PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: Aren't there wallpapers provided by the DE's, eg. xfce4? In this case, it isn't usefull to provide anything else. Didier And in fact, it would be work to remove them, so leave them be. Except on my Debian Jessie system the walpaper I get is a blue screen with a Debian logo, a few artistic-looking wwhite curved lines, and the words Debian 8. There's an menu for choosing another background called xfce-blue.jpg, but even when I select it, it doesn't seem to appear on the background. (Could systemd be involved here?) No. it's not important to tell me how to change the background -- I don't really care all that much. Eventully it'll all just work on Devuan, and I'll wait for that. Dor copleteness, I *did* manage to change the background -- intermittently. I chose an image that was on my hard disk, used the xfce coniguration menus to set it to being the background. It now shows up some of the time when I log in. Other times I just get the usual bland background. No, don't waste time here debugging my use of Debian Jessie. There are more important things I need to do. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 06:13:24PM +, KatolaZ wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 01:56:56PM +, Matthew Melton wrote: [cut] Just to support my point, Debian has a great logo, but this is what is currently happening to the users of Jessie, thanks to the systemd-nonsense: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00013.html Think they have found a solution after reading the followups. Reminds me that someone complained they couldn't terminate fdisk if started by systemd during boot. Might offer to help them...once I have stopped laughing of course. Ha ha. Well, I still find it hard to believe that a modern Unix OS might be stuck at boot because I forgot to connect an ethernet cable... This is the essence of the systemd-nonsense. In that case it was just a What baffles me is that Lennart *has* written a daemon specifically to *avoid* hung boots due to networks being down. It's called ifplugd. (And yes, if I used my ethernet port more often than the twice a year I now use it, I might want to use ifplugd. Unlike systemd, it's a single small daemon that just checks interface state and runs a script if it's connected.) Or, that might be the way Debian sets up networking as a dependency of remote-fs which is a dependency of the late-boot programs in /usr. I used to encounter similar problems when I had no wireless; fortunately, sysvinit proceeds after a timeout. Thanks, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
Le 27/02/2015 00:07, Joel Roth a écrit : On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 06:02:16PM -0500, Gravis wrote: http://www.saynotogmos.org/ss/penguins/trio.png ha! it just needs words like Linux: Strut your stuff [?] I thought of photoshopping in a jail out of which they are walking. Both cute and carrying a lot of sense. Il like it. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
Matthew Melton m...@mjmworks.co.uk KatolaZ wrote On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 07:13:38PM +, KatolaZ wrote: [cut] Well, I agree about the necessity of having a logo, but there is no point into having a great brand without anything concrete behind it, IMHO. I believe that the most important thing at the moment is to have a working Devuan, not having a nice logo for it, which is something that will become important afterwards, when Devuan is stable and when it has a user base. People do not choose distributions for their logo. Otherwise I would have steyed with RedHat, back in the days... Just to support my point, Debian has a great logo, but this is what is currently happening to the users of Jessie, thanks to the systemd-nonsense: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00013.html Think they have found a solution after reading the followups. Reminds me that someone complained they couldn't terminate fdisk if started by systemd during boot. Might offer to help them...once I have stopped laughing of course. Ha ha. HND KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
How much should systemd damage the image of GNU/Linux before everybody realise how much of a nonsense it is? the image of linux is /not/ what will cause change. - people will switch when the annoyance of unexpected systemd behavior outweighs the annoyance of getting rid of systemd - developers will stop using it when something nicer with wider support comes along or they personally are fed up with systemd. - distros will keep requiring it until they start losing lots of people to distros without systemd or have enough complaints/support issues to warrant change. we need to make the first two things happen if there is any hope of the third happening. --Gravis On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 1:13 PM, KatolaZ kato...@freaknet.org wrote: On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 01:56:56PM +, Matthew Melton wrote: [cut] Just to support my point, Debian has a great logo, but this is what is currently happening to the users of Jessie, thanks to the systemd-nonsense: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00013.html Think they have found a solution after reading the followups. Reminds me that someone complained they couldn't terminate fdisk if started by systemd during boot. Might offer to help them...once I have stopped laughing of course. Ha ha. Well, I still find it hard to believe that a modern Unix OS might be stuck at boot because I forgot to connect an ethernet cable... This is the essence of the systemd-nonsense. In that case it was just a laptop, but can you imagine something similar happening on a production server? Who is going to pay for the downtime that these little glitches are going to cause? How much should systemd damage the image of GNU/Linux before everybody realise how much of a nonsense it is? :( KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On 26/02/15 18:04, Hendrik Boom wrote: And don't want Devuan deelopers to waste time on them if it means delaying our release. After a usable release, we'll have time for such matters. -- hendrik Hello Hendrik, I agree with what you mentioned as the highest priority is to get the first version of Devuan being released. I am quite sure that in the next 6 months or so after Devuan is being released, I will not need any logo, background or even splash screen. As my first priority is to switch my 2 Xen VPS' from Debian into Devuan. I will test that first on my backup NAS server, which is now just lying around gathering dust. Having said that, perhaps I can use this old server to test Devuan and report any problems. However, logo is quite important as it is all about identity. I think Devuan needs that. Don't you think? There is no harm in discussing it now. Some good artistic ideas could come out of this discussion. So turning this kind of discussions down, would not help getting those ideas. Kind regards, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:19:05PM -0500, etech3 wrote: +1 hendrik May I suggest some timeline milestones here (which I know is around to the Devs). I for one would look forword to a working base install with no DE. That could be a alpha 0.XX milestone. Do you meen no X? no window manager? or just no fancy desktop? Initally I would be happy with X and a minimal window manager. Worked that way in the 80's. Could work that way again. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:43:50PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:19:05PM -0500, etech3 wrote: +1 hendrik May I suggest some timeline milestones here (which I know is around to the Devs). I for one would look forword to a working base install with no DE. That could be a alpha 0.XX milestone. Do you meen no X? no window manager? or just no fancy desktop? Initally I would be happy with X and a minimal window manager. Worked that way in the 80's. Could work that way again. Most of what I do can be done in a few xterms on screen. Of course it should nowadays be a few unicode xterms rather than the old ASCII xterms, but that's feasible nowadays. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 04:03:42PM -0300, Linuxito wrote: I agree with you. We need identity, and more important, we need a brand. Although I know nothing about marketing, I think a logo it's the most important component of a brand. It will help us make our distribution known by others, it will bring contributions, donations, etc. So I believe choosing a logo, at least a temporary one, it's something important. From Wikipedia: Marketing is communicating the value of a product, service or brand to customers, for the purpose of promoting or selling that product, service, or brand. We need to sell Devuan to get more help and let our community grow. Well, I agree about the necessity of having a logo, but there is no point into having a great brand without anything concrete behind it, IMHO. I believe that the most important thing at the moment is to have a working Devuan, not having a nice logo for it, which is something that will become important afterwards, when Devuan is stable and when it has a user base. People do not choose distributions for their logo. Otherwise I would have steyed with RedHat, back in the days... My2Cents KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 07:22:15PM +0100, Anto wrote: On 26/02/15 18:04, Hendrik Boom wrote: And don't want Devuan deelopers to waste time on them if it means delaying our release. After a usable release, we'll have time for such matters. -- hendrik Hello Hendrik, I agree with what you mentioned as the highest priority is to get the first version of Devuan being released. I am quite sure that in the next 6 months or so after Devuan is being released, I will not need any logo, background or even splash screen. As my first priority is to switch my 2 Xen VPS' from Debian into Devuan. I will test that first on my backup NAS server, which is now just lying around gathering dust. Having said that, perhaps I can use this old server to test Devuan and report any problems. However, logo is quite important as it is all about identity. I think Devuan needs that. Don't you think? There is no harm in discussing it now. Some good artistic ideas could come out of this discussion. So turning this kind of discussions down, would not help getting those ideas. Of course! Keep talking! It's just that the conversation was getting elaborate in terms of implementation. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
I agree with you. We need identity, and more important, we need a brand. Although I know nothing about marketing, I think a logo it's the most important component of a brand. It will help us make our distribution known by others, it will bring contributions, donations, etc. So I believe choosing a logo, at least a temporary one, it's something important. From Wikipedia: Marketing is communicating the value of a product, service or brand to customers, for the purpose of promoting or selling that product, service, or brand. We need to sell Devuan to get more help and let our community grow. On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Anto arya...@chello.at wrote: On 26/02/15 18:04, Hendrik Boom wrote: And don't want Devuan deelopers to waste time on them if it means delaying our release. After a usable release, we'll have time for such matters. -- hendrik Hello Hendrik, I agree with what you mentioned as the highest priority is to get the first version of Devuan being released. I am quite sure that in the next 6 months or so after Devuan is being released, I will not need any logo, background or even splash screen. As my first priority is to switch my 2 Xen VPS' from Debian into Devuan. I will test that first on my backup NAS server, which is now just lying around gathering dust. Having said that, perhaps I can use this old server to test Devuan and report any problems. However, logo is quite important as it is all about identity. I think Devuan needs that. Don't you think? There is no harm in discussing it now. Some good artistic ideas could come out of this discussion. So turning this kind of discussions down, would not help getting those ideas. Kind regards, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Thu, 2/26/15, Linuxito ad...@linuxito.com wrote: Subject: Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds To: Anto arya...@chello.at Cc: dng dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 1:03 PM I agree with you. We need identity, and more important, we need a brand. Although I know nothing about marketing, I think a logo it's the most important component of a brand. It will help us make our distribution known by others, it will bring contributions, donations, etc. So I believe choosing a logo, at least a temporary one, it's something important. It could be confusing and a market disadvantage if the logo used for the alpha doesn't have a resemblance to the one that will finally represent Devuan. To date there has been almost no feedback from the VUAs (who will make the final decision) on the direction(s) they would prefer. That's understandable as they have more important work to do ATM. But without their direction, the design team is a bit adrift in still waters. The best solution would probably be to use a text identity until the graphics get sorted after the alpha is released. For the record . . . I submitted a background proposal using a photo taken by a friend in Antarctica a few years ago. http://www.saynotogmos.org/ss/penguins/trio.png Be aware though . . . those are Gentoo penguins! golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Thursday, 26 de February de 2015 17:54:01 Jaromil escribió: On Thu, 26 Feb 2015, etech3 wrote: +1 hendrik yes, we will not cover up boot with framebuffer stuff for sure. so to say Devuan is sugar-free and doesn't makes your computer fat :^) I want the freedom to take my Devuan with sugar! Now seriously: some things are important, and some are prescindible. I'm a heavy user of text consoles, but I do so in a DE because I like some things that DE gives me: a browser, a PDF viewer for all the documentation I need to read, camera and USB automounting, Eclipse, gitg and so on. While I use not to be able to see my desktop background, it's there, and I'd like to have a Devuan one. I volunteer to create some backgrounds, quite fast, once we have a logo. Preferrably a logo and colour palette (but the pair of darl blue and orange works quite well). Regards er Envite -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? OpenPGP key: 1586 50C8 7DBF B050 DE62 EA12 70B4 00F3 EEC7 C372 Spiral galaxies always have at least TWO arms. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
Le 26/02/2015 18:04, Hendrik Boom a écrit : On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 04:05:40PM +0100, Anto wrote: On 26/02/15 15:50, hellekin wrote: The logo threads are multiplying: it shows the impatience is growing. What I'd like to see instead is a focus on a real issue we have, which is shipping desktop background designs. This is not a unique item, so people can have the distro shipped with the background they'd like to use. Isn't that more interesting? Yes. That would be interesting. But we would need a logo on the background, wouldn't we? Or are we going to use what ever backgrounds that are currently available in Debian with Debian logo? I don't need a desktop background design. I'd be completely happy with a blank screen. I might possibly want to tweak the background colour, for visual pleasance behind my windows. Let those who care choose their own pictures and install them. We specifically don't need Debian logos. I don't mind if we do the same for splash screens during booting. Don't really need them. Don't want them if they get in the way of seeing what it's doing while it boots. And don't want Devuan deelopers to waste time on them if it means delaying our release. After a usable release, we'll have time for such matters. -- hendrik Aren't there wallpapers provided by the DE's, eg. xfce4? In this case, it isn't usefull to provide anything else. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] simple backgrounds
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 10:09:50PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 26/02/2015 18:04, Hendrik Boom a écrit : On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 04:05:40PM +0100, Anto wrote: On 26/02/15 15:50, hellekin wrote: The logo threads are multiplying: it shows the impatience is growing. What I'd like to see instead is a focus on a real issue we have, which is shipping desktop background designs. This is not a unique item, so people can have the distro shipped with the background they'd like to use. Isn't that more interesting? Yes. That would be interesting. But we would need a logo on the background, wouldn't we? Or are we going to use what ever backgrounds that are currently available in Debian with Debian logo? I don't need a desktop background design. I'd be completely happy with a blank screen. I might possibly want to tweak the background colour, for visual pleasance behind my windows. Let those who care choose their own pictures and install them. We specifically don't need Debian logos. I don't mind if we do the same for splash screens during booting. Don't really need them. Don't want them if they get in the way of seeing what it's doing while it boots. And don't want Devuan deelopers to waste time on them if it means delaying our release. After a usable release, we'll have time for such matters. -- hendrik Aren't there wallpapers provided by the DE's, eg. xfce4? In this case, it isn't usefull to provide anything else. Didier And in fact, it would be work to remove them, so leave them be. Except on my Debian Jessie system the walpaper I get is a blue screen with a Debian logo, a few artistic-looking wwhite curved lines, and the words Debian 8. There's an menu for choosing another background called xfce-blue.jpg, but even when I select it, it doesn't seem to appear on the background. (Could systemd be involved here?) No. it's not important to tell me how to change the background -- I don't really care all that much. Eventully it'll all just work on Devuan, and I'll wait for that. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
