Re: [DNSOP] Coming soon: WG interim meeting on the definition of "lame delegation"
On 19/06/2023 17.00, Masataka Ohta wrote: I can't see any problem with "lame" delegation than a "secondary" or "slave" server, because of the history of racial discrimination in US. Honestly, I'm personally still failing understand the problem of using slightly offending word when referring to a machine (e.g. "slave" or "lame"). I'll try to keep myself very short, also trying to avoid posting followup reactions. But perhaps some of you could point me to a reference that might help me understand better, as this is recurring in the recent years (also outside DNS). Of course I respect that if a *significant* fraction of people does see a problem, I can also move on to another set of terms, but I feel like I'm missing substance and often the renames come with nontrivial costs. Why would a person take offense when those words are *clearly* about a machine? In reality we treat these machines worse than human slaves were treated. --Vladimir ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
Re: [DNSOP] Coming soon: WG interim meeting on the definition of "lame delegation"
Paul Hoffman wrote: Greetings again. A bunch of you have opinions in this area. In advance of our WG interim meeting on Tuesday, it would be grand if people with opinions would review those opinions and review the threads on the list where other peoples' opinions were expressed. This will make our time together in the interim meeting more valuable. I can't see any problem with "lame" delegation than a "secondary" or "slave" server, because of the history of racial discrimination in US. Both "lame" and "secondary" has negative meaning and, according to google search, "secondary" means "less important than", which is how colored people was and still is treated in US. The fact is that, for about 100 years after slavery was illegalized in US, colored people in US had been legally treated as "secondary" citizens, which was what Martin Luther King protested against. That the discrimination, though somewhat but not sufficiently illegally, still continues, as is demonstrated by BLM, is the problem not addressed but rather obfuscated by not saying "slave" or "secondary". Same for "lame". Masataka Ohta ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
Re: [DNSOP] Coming soon: WG interim meeting on the definition of "lame delegation"
Hi all, Paul, On 17/06/2023 22:59, Paul Hoffman wrote: Greetings again. A bunch of you have opinions in this area. In advance of our WG interim meeting on Tuesday, it would be grand if people with opinions would review those opinions and review the threads on the list where other peoples' opinions were expressed. This will make our time together in the interim meeting more valuable. Thank you for reminding the WG to go over the discussion threads and review the opinions expressed. I will prepare two to three slides summarizing the discussions, including the most recent discussion on the meaning of "lame," to help focus the meeting. FWIW, I'm glad I'm not the one who will be deciding consensus here; the chairs will be. You are welcome Paul. :-) Looking forward to a productive meeting. Best, -- Benno Begin forwarded message: *From: *IESG Secretary *Subject: **[Ext] [DNSOP] Domain Name System Operations (dnsop) WG Virtual Meeting: 2023-06-20* *Date: *June 6, 2023 at 7:19:23 AM PDT *To: *"IETF-Announce" *Cc: *dnsop@ietf.org The Domain Name System Operations (dnsop) WG will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2023-06-20 from 20:00 to 21:00 Europe/Amsterdam (18:00 to 19:00 UTC). Agenda: ## Agenda ### Administrivia * Agenda Bashing, Blue Sheets, etc, 5 min ### Current Working Group Business * DNS Terminology and definition "lame delegation" - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc8499bis/ - WG Chairs, Paul Hoffman and Kazunori Fujiwara, 55 min - Chairs Action: Information about remote participation: https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=7e86a1ea-71f7-40c0-8c34-eb16a1a57a6e -- A calendar subscription for all dnsop meetings is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/upcoming.ics?show=dnsop ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
[DNSOP] Coming soon: WG interim meeting on the definition of "lame delegation"
Greetings again. A bunch of you have opinions in this area. In advance of our WG interim meeting on Tuesday, it would be grand if people with opinions would review those opinions and review the threads on the list where other peoples' opinions were expressed. This will make our time together in the interim meeting more valuable. FWIW, I'm glad I'm not the one who will be deciding consensus here; the chairs will be. --Paul Hoffman Begin forwarded message: From: IESG Secretary Subject: [Ext] [DNSOP] Domain Name System Operations (dnsop) WG Virtual Meeting: 2023-06-20 Date: June 6, 2023 at 7:19:23 AM PDT To: "IETF-Announce" Cc: dnsop@ietf.org The Domain Name System Operations (dnsop) WG will hold a virtual interim meeting on 2023-06-20 from 20:00 to 21:00 Europe/Amsterdam (18:00 to 19:00 UTC). Agenda: ## Agenda ### Administrivia * Agenda Bashing, Blue Sheets, etc, 5 min ### Current Working Group Business * DNS Terminology and definition "lame delegation" - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-dnsop-rfc8499bis/ - WG Chairs, Paul Hoffman and Kazunori Fujiwara, 55 min - Chairs Action: Information about remote participation: https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=7e86a1ea-71f7-40c0-8c34-eb16a1a57a6e -- A calendar subscription for all dnsop meetings is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/upcoming.ics?show=dnsop ___ DNSOP mailing list DNSOP@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
