Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Dag Nygren]

On Wednesday 16 August 2017 07:34:25 Steffen Kaiser wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Aug 2017, Matt Bryant wrote:
> 
> > hmm if message cannot be written to disk surely it remains on mda queue
> > as not delviered and does not just disappear ? or am i reading this
> > wrong ?!
> 
> as Matt writes your MDA (aka dovecot-lda) returns with an exit code != 0
> and your MTA should queue the message for later re-delivery.
> 
> IMHO, you should look there, if you call dovecot-lda correctly.

You might be perfectly right here and to make it
more complicated I forgot to tell you that procmail
is also involved. I did debug a bit though and
lda-deliver will return the proper return code 75

my .maildelivery files contains the recommended (?)

"|IFS=' ' && exec /usr/bin/procmail -f- || exit 75"

And the procamail recipe has:

| deliver -d $ LOGNAME -m inbox

As the action (just one example).

But still my postfix thinks the message is properly
delivered at a read/write error in the mailstore ???

But this seems to be a postfix configuration problem instead of
a dovecot one so sorry for choosing the wrong group.

Best
Dag

Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Dag Nygren]

On Wednesday 16 August 2017 07:56:13 Matt Bryant wrote:
> hmm if message cannot be written to disk surely it remains on mda queue
> as not delviered and does not just disappear ? or am i reading this
> wrong ?!

That would be nice. ...

I have the delivery chain postfix -> lda-dovecot and
when postfix has passed the message to lda it will delete
it from the queue. Then when kda-fails it is nowhere to be
found any more.

Could well be my dovecot or positfix config that is wrong...

Best
Dag

Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Steffen Kaiser]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017, Matt Bryant wrote:


hmm if message cannot be written to disk surely it remains on mda queue
as not delviered and does not just disappear ? or am i reading this
wrong ?!


as Matt writes your MDA (aka dovecot-lda) returns with an exit code != 0 
and your MTA should queue the message for later re-delivery.


IMHO, you should look there, if you call dovecot-lda correctly.


Dag Nygren 
16 August 2017 at 7:14 am
Thanks for all the advice on how to configure systemd
not to loose my emails after every update. Much appreciated.

But there could be other reasons for the mailboxes not being
writable and what I am really asking for is for
dovecot-lda not to loose the incoming emails into thin air
in these cases.

Could we have some kind of collective place/places where they would
be saved in this case and then reintroduced into the system
after the problem is fixed? One file for example?

Best
Dag
Dag Nygren 
14 August 2017 at 4:24 pm
Hi!

Have been using Fedora as my dovecot server for
some time and am struggling with systemd
at every update.
Fedora insists on setting
ProtectSystem=full in both dovecot.service and postfix.service
at every update of the packages.

This makes my mailstore which is in /usr/local/var/mail
Read-only.

And this makes the incoming emails delivered through
dovecot-lda disappear into /dev/null until I notice
the problem and we lose incoming emails.

My question is:
Is there any way to set up a failback mailstore
for these occasions?

PS! I really hate systemd - Destroys the UNIX way of
doing things with a heavy axe


Best
Dag




- -- 
Steffen Kaiser

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Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Matt Bryant]

hmm if message cannot be written to disk surely it remains on mda queue
as not delviered and does not just disappear ? or am i reading this
wrong ?!


> Dag Nygren 
> 16 August 2017 at 7:14 am
> Thanks for all the advice on how to configure systemd
> not to loose my emails after every update. Much appreciated.
>
> But there could be other reasons for the mailboxes not being
> writable and what I am really asking for is for
> dovecot-lda not to loose the incoming emails into thin air
> in these cases.
>
> Could we have some kind of collective place/places where they would
> be saved in this case and then reintroduced into the system
> after the problem is fixed? One file for example?
>
> Best
> Dag
> Dag Nygren 
> 14 August 2017 at 4:24 pm
> Hi!
>
> Have been using Fedora as my dovecot server for
> some time and am struggling with systemd
> at every update.
> Fedora insists on setting
> ProtectSystem=full in both dovecot.service and postfix.service
> at every update of the packages.
>
> This makes my mailstore which is in /usr/local/var/mail
> Read-only.
>
> And this makes the incoming emails delivered through
> dovecot-lda disappear into /dev/null until I notice
> the problem and we lose incoming emails.
>
> My question is:
> Is there any way to set up a failback mailstore
> for these occasions?
>
> PS! I really hate systemd - Destroys the UNIX way of
> doing things with a heavy axe
>
>
> Best
> Dag

Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Dag Nygren]

Thanks for all the advice on how to configure systemd
not to loose my emails after every update. Much appreciated.

But there could be other reasons for the mailboxes not being
writable and what I am really asking for is for
dovecot-lda not to loose the incoming emails into thin air
in these cases.

Could we have some kind of collective place/places where they would
be saved in this case and then reintroduced into the system
after the problem is fixed? One file for example?

Best
Dag

Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Vincent Bernat]

 ❦ 14 août 2017 09:24 +0300, Dag Nygren  :

> Have been using Fedora as my dovecot server for
> some time and am struggling with systemd
> at every update.
> Fedora insists on setting
> ProtectSystem=full in both dovecot.service and postfix.service
> at every update of the packages.
>
> This makes my mailstore which is in /usr/local/var/mail
> Read-only.
>
> And this makes the incoming emails delivered through
> dovecot-lda disappear into /dev/null until I notice
> the problem and we lose incoming emails.
>
> My question is:
> Is there any way to set up a failback mailstore
> for these occasions?
>
> PS! I really hate systemd - Destroys the UNIX way of
> doing things with a heavy axe

In /etc/systemd/system/dovecot.service.d/10-mailboxes.conf, put:

[Service]
ReadWritePaths=/usr/local/var/mail

Same for Postfix. This won't be overwritten on updates.
-- 
Don't stop at one bug.
- The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plauger)

Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Sander Lepik]

14.08.2017 10:57 Dag Nygren kirjutas:
> On Monday 14 August 2017 10:22:54 Sander Lepik wrote:
>> 14.08.2017 09:24 Dag Nygren kirjutas:
> 
>>> PS! I really hate systemd - Destroys the UNIX way of
>>> doing things with a heavy axe
>>
>> Don't hate it, better learn to use it:
>> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Drop-in_files
> 
> Cannot find a way to "remove"
> the ProtectSystem setting as there is no
> option to set ProtectSystem=none . At least not
> according to the systemd manual...

You can try with ProtectSystem= - if that doesn't work then copy the
whole .service file to /etc/systemd/system/, remove the "offending"
line, run systemctl daemon-reload and restart the service. From time to
time You can run diff on original .service file to see if upgrade has
made some important changes in it.

-- 
Sander

Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Dag Nygren]

On Monday 14 August 2017 10:22:54 Sander Lepik wrote:
> 14.08.2017 09:24 Dag Nygren kirjutas:

> > PS! I really hate systemd - Destroys the UNIX way of
> > doing things with a heavy axe
> 
> Don't hate it, better learn to use it:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Drop-in_files

Cannot find a way to "remove"
the ProtectSystem setting as there is no
option to set ProtectSystem=none . At least not
according to the systemd manual...

Dag

Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Dag Nygren]

On Monday 14 August 2017 10:22:54 Sander Lepik wrote:
> 14.08.2017 09:24 Dag Nygren kirjutas:
> > 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > Have been using Fedora as my dovecot server for
> > some time and am struggling with systemd
> > at every update.
> > Fedora insists on setting
> > ProtectSystem=full in both dovecot.service and postfix.service
> > at every update of the packages.
> > 
> > This makes my mailstore which is in /usr/local/var/mail
> > Read-only.
> > 
> > And this makes the incoming emails delivered through
> > dovecot-lda disappear into /dev/null until I notice
> > the problem and we lose incoming emails.
> > 
> > My question is:
> > Is there any way to set up a failback mailstore
> > for these occasions?
> > 
> > PS! I really hate systemd - Destroys the UNIX way of
> > doing things with a heavy axe
> 
> Don't hate it, better learn to use it:
> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Drop-in_files
> 
> Just override the default conf and update won't break it.

Will have a look on that thanks...

> Also, maybe it's time to move Your mailstore under /var/something... I
> guess even more restrictions will be applied on /usr in the future. If
> You want to do things in the UNIX way then first make sure You know what
> should go under /usr and what not ;)

Local mods/repositories etc. should go under /usr/local...
/usr/local/spool, /usr/local/var etc
Has been like that for 40 years now and there is no reason
to break it by a noob programmer (LP) that wants UNIX to behave like
Windows...

Systemd is really a misnomer and a constant source of
problems.

Dag

Re: Failback mailboxes?

[Sander Lepik]

14.08.2017 09:24 Dag Nygren kirjutas:
> 
> Hi!
> 
> Have been using Fedora as my dovecot server for
> some time and am struggling with systemd
> at every update.
> Fedora insists on setting
> ProtectSystem=full in both dovecot.service and postfix.service
> at every update of the packages.
> 
> This makes my mailstore which is in /usr/local/var/mail
> Read-only.
> 
> And this makes the incoming emails delivered through
> dovecot-lda disappear into /dev/null until I notice
> the problem and we lose incoming emails.
> 
> My question is:
> Is there any way to set up a failback mailstore
> for these occasions?
> 
> PS! I really hate systemd - Destroys the UNIX way of
> doing things with a heavy axe

Don't hate it, better learn to use it:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/systemd#Drop-in_files

Just override the default conf and update won't break it.

Also, maybe it's time to move Your mailstore under /var/something... I
guess even more restrictions will be applied on /usr in the future. If
You want to do things in the UNIX way then first make sure You know what
should go under /usr and what not ;)

-- 
Sander

Failback mailboxes?

[Dag Nygren]

Hi!

Have been using Fedora as my dovecot server for
some time and am struggling with systemd
at every update.
Fedora insists on setting
ProtectSystem=full in both dovecot.service and postfix.service
at every update of the packages.

This makes my mailstore which is in /usr/local/var/mail
Read-only.

And this makes the incoming emails delivered through
dovecot-lda disappear into /dev/null until I notice
the problem and we lose incoming emails.

My question is:
Is there any way to set up a failback mailstore
for these occasions?

PS! I really hate systemd - Destroys the UNIX way of
doing things with a heavy axe


Best
Dag