new s3tc patch...

2004-06-23 Thread Roland Scheidegger
Since the patch broke again...
a new version together with some information how to install it can be 
found here (that also means I no longer have to spam the list for future 
versions).

http://homepage.hispeed.ch/rscheidegger/dri_experimental/s3tc_index.html
Roland
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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-15 Thread Mike Mestnik
I think I get what your saying here, about white and black being your max and min.  
The answer is
simple, to my simple mind.  You need to compress your max and min based uppon your 
full data set.
Apply the means-extream, if applicable, to get your new max and min.

Bottom line, make Black into Brown with red and blue then.

--- Roland Scheidegger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dieter Nützel wrote:
 (needed for QuakeIII/rtcw, don't know about
 rtcw:et). This time I haven't tested the r200 patch, only radeon so use
 at your own risk.
  
  
  Using 8/8/8 Color bits, 24 depth, 8 stencil display.
  GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI R200 20030328 AGP 4x x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE TCL
  Initializing OpenGL extensions
  ...using GL_S3_s3tc
  ...using GL_EXT_texture_env_add
  ...using GL_ARB_multitexture
  ...using GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array
  
  ~160 fps at 640x480 fullscreen
  ~156 fps at 640x480 window
  
  On 1280x1024x24 desktop both without sound.
 Did you enable r_ext_compressed_textures 1? Otherwise, quakeIII won't 
 use compressed textures.
 
 Note that the alpha decompression of DXT5 (in txformat_tmp.h) is 
 horribly broken - stupid bug, the version from the earlier patch is 
 actually correct (games likely never need this).
 You will also get quite a few color banding artifacts. It's kinda 
 funny, you can get absolutely HUGE color errors in theory (because a 
 16-pixel block needs to be encoded with only 4 colors, of which only 2 
 are specified directly, the others are calculated and are somewhere 
 in-between the other 2 colors), but what you actually notice are 
 (comparatively) very minimal color banding errors because the encoded 
 colors are only 16bit, not 32bit. Though a newer version of the encoder 
 reduces this problem quite a bit (some stupid design flaw which led to 
 rounding errors), a really clever encoder could reduce this problem 
 further (you can get better than 16bit color accuracy by means of the 
 calculated colors, provided the GPU does the decoding in more than 16bit).
 Another problem is the encoding can sometimes fail pretty horribly. If 
 you have one white and one black pixel in your 16-pixel block, those 
 will get chosen as the 2 base values. If the other 14 pixels are all 
 green for instance, well tough luck - they are now all either black, 
 dark gray, light gray or white... The improved encoder I have here 
 improves this a bit, but fundamentally it seems to be a hard problem to 
 get the best (or at least a decent) encoding - not to mention you'd need 
 to figure out how to define what a good encoding actually is...
 Alpha (DXT5) encding is also improved in the new version.
 There's no new patch available yet - trust me, you don't want to see the 
 code ;-). Furthermore, I'll convert this to use the dlopen/dlsym stuff 
 as discussed already before I'll submit another patch.
 
 Roland
 
 


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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-15 Thread Mike Mestnik
I think I get what your saying here, about white and black being your max and min.  
The answer is
simple, to my simple mind.  You need to compress your max and min based uppon your 
full data set.
Apply the means-extream, if applicable, to get your new max and min.

Bottom line, make Black into Brown with red and blue then.

--- Roland Scheidegger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dieter Nützel wrote:
 (needed for QuakeIII/rtcw, don't know about
 rtcw:et). This time I haven't tested the r200 patch, only radeon so use
 at your own risk.
  
  
  Using 8/8/8 Color bits, 24 depth, 8 stencil display.
  GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI R200 20030328 AGP 4x x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE TCL
  Initializing OpenGL extensions
  ...using GL_S3_s3tc
  ...using GL_EXT_texture_env_add
  ...using GL_ARB_multitexture
  ...using GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array
  
  ~160 fps at 640x480 fullscreen
  ~156 fps at 640x480 window
  
  On 1280x1024x24 desktop both without sound.
 Did you enable r_ext_compressed_textures 1? Otherwise, quakeIII won't 
 use compressed textures.
 
 Note that the alpha decompression of DXT5 (in txformat_tmp.h) is 
 horribly broken - stupid bug, the version from the earlier patch is 
 actually correct (games likely never need this).
 You will also get quite a few color banding artifacts. It's kinda 
 funny, you can get absolutely HUGE color errors in theory (because a 
 16-pixel block needs to be encoded with only 4 colors, of which only 2 
 are specified directly, the others are calculated and are somewhere 
 in-between the other 2 colors), but what you actually notice are 
 (comparatively) very minimal color banding errors because the encoded 
 colors are only 16bit, not 32bit. Though a newer version of the encoder 
 reduces this problem quite a bit (some stupid design flaw which led to 
 rounding errors), a really clever encoder could reduce this problem 
 further (you can get better than 16bit color accuracy by means of the 
 calculated colors, provided the GPU does the decoding in more than 16bit).
 Another problem is the encoding can sometimes fail pretty horribly. If 
 you have one white and one black pixel in your 16-pixel block, those 
 will get chosen as the 2 base values. If the other 14 pixels are all 
 green for instance, well tough luck - they are now all either black, 
 dark gray, light gray or white... The improved encoder I have here 
 improves this a bit, but fundamentally it seems to be a hard problem to 
 get the best (or at least a decent) encoding - not to mention you'd need 
 to figure out how to define what a good encoding actually is...
 Alpha (DXT5) encding is also improved in the new version.
 There's no new patch available yet - trust me, you don't want to see the 
 code ;-). Furthermore, I'll convert this to use the dlopen/dlsym stuff 
 as discussed already before I'll submit another patch.
 
 Roland
 
 


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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-15 Thread Mike Mestnik
I think I get what your saying here, about white and black being your max and min.  
The answer is
simple, to my simple mind.  You need to compress your max and min based uppon your 
full data set.
Apply the means-extream, if applicable, to get your new max and min.

Bottom line, make Black into Brown with red and blue then.

--- Roland Scheidegger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dieter Nützel wrote:
 (needed for QuakeIII/rtcw, don't know about
 rtcw:et). This time I haven't tested the r200 patch, only radeon so use
 at your own risk.
  
  
  Using 8/8/8 Color bits, 24 depth, 8 stencil display.
  GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI R200 20030328 AGP 4x x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE TCL
  Initializing OpenGL extensions
  ...using GL_S3_s3tc
  ...using GL_EXT_texture_env_add
  ...using GL_ARB_multitexture
  ...using GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array
  
  ~160 fps at 640x480 fullscreen
  ~156 fps at 640x480 window
  
  On 1280x1024x24 desktop both without sound.
 Did you enable r_ext_compressed_textures 1? Otherwise, quakeIII won't 
 use compressed textures.
 
 Note that the alpha decompression of DXT5 (in txformat_tmp.h) is 
 horribly broken - stupid bug, the version from the earlier patch is 
 actually correct (games likely never need this).
 You will also get quite a few color banding artifacts. It's kinda 
 funny, you can get absolutely HUGE color errors in theory (because a 
 16-pixel block needs to be encoded with only 4 colors, of which only 2 
 are specified directly, the others are calculated and are somewhere 
 in-between the other 2 colors), but what you actually notice are 
 (comparatively) very minimal color banding errors because the encoded 
 colors are only 16bit, not 32bit. Though a newer version of the encoder 
 reduces this problem quite a bit (some stupid design flaw which led to 
 rounding errors), a really clever encoder could reduce this problem 
 further (you can get better than 16bit color accuracy by means of the 
 calculated colors, provided the GPU does the decoding in more than 16bit).
 Another problem is the encoding can sometimes fail pretty horribly. If 
 you have one white and one black pixel in your 16-pixel block, those 
 will get chosen as the 2 base values. If the other 14 pixels are all 
 green for instance, well tough luck - they are now all either black, 
 dark gray, light gray or white... The improved encoder I have here 
 improves this a bit, but fundamentally it seems to be a hard problem to 
 get the best (or at least a decent) encoding - not to mention you'd need 
 to figure out how to define what a good encoding actually is...
 Alpha (DXT5) encding is also improved in the new version.
 There's no new patch available yet - trust me, you don't want to see the 
 code ;-). Furthermore, I'll convert this to use the dlopen/dlsym stuff 
 as discussed already before I'll submit another patch.
 
 Roland
 
 


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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-14 Thread Dieter Ntzel
Am Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2004 06:29 schrieb Dieter Nützel:
 Am Sonntag, 28. Dezember 2003 23:00 schrieb Roland Scheidegger:
  ok, here it is, the long-awaited, highly controversial new patch ;-).
  (patches against current Mesa cvs, if you used the older version you
  need to reverse it first).
  The radeon/r200 patches have a texture alignment problem (with small
  textures/mipmaps whose height is bigger than width) fixed. I believe it
  is now 100% correct except possibly for rgba_dxt1 textures (still lack
  a test app). They also enable the old, undocumented, dead and buried
  GL_S3_s3tc extension

 Can't find that string.


Oh boy, stupid me.

I've forgotten to extract and apply the radeon_txc.diff and r200_txc.diff.

Overseen them in your post ;-)))

  (needed for QuakeIII/rtcw, don't know about
  rtcw:et). This time I haven't tested the r200 patch, only radeon so use
  at your own risk.

Using 8/8/8 Color bits, 24 depth, 8 stencil display.
GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI R200 20030328 AGP 4x x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE TCL
Initializing OpenGL extensions
...using GL_S3_s3tc
...using GL_EXT_texture_env_add
...using GL_ARB_multitexture
...using GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array

~160 fps at 640x480 fullscreen
~156 fps at 640x480 window

On 1280x1024x24 desktop both without sound.

 I can test rtcw on r200 for you if we get it going.

Later.

  The mesa patch now contains a DXTn compressor (and has some bug fixed
  with the alpha decoding of DXT5, though this is untested).
  Per default, all software decompression/compression is disabled, but I'm
  sure you can figure out how to change that ;-).
  I've also done some mesa changes, since mesa based it's decision if it's
  a compressed format (and which one) on the suggested format supplied by
  the application, not the format which actually got used. This will lead
  to crashes if for instance the application suggests a compressed format
  and the driver decides (which is perfectly legal) it wants to store it
  uncompressed. Though I'm not convinced if this is an elegant fix, maybe
  it would be better just to remove the texImage-IsCompressed and
  texImage-CompressedSize fields (just use texImage-TexFormat-TexelSize
instead, the CompressedSize could also be calculated whenever it's
  needed).
 
  Issues:
  - Not sure if the GL_S3_s3tc formats are really exactly the same as the
  GL_ext_texture_compression_s3tc formats. Mesa assumed this, so I just
  assumed it too.

 I have the quake3-smp binary, too.
 But sadly something is broken since Ian changed something in the gl context
 code some months ago. It worked before and gave additional ~10 fps and very
 nice system load.

 I only get a black (empty) window.

 He posted some hints several weeks ago but my system disk crashed and
 it took some time to get on pair, again...

I need some sleep...
...such beautifully work!

Cheers,
Dieter


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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-14 Thread Roland Scheidegger
Dieter Nützel wrote:
(needed for QuakeIII/rtcw, don't know about
rtcw:et). This time I haven't tested the r200 patch, only radeon so use
at your own risk.


Using 8/8/8 Color bits, 24 depth, 8 stencil display.
GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI R200 20030328 AGP 4x x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE TCL
Initializing OpenGL extensions
...using GL_S3_s3tc
...using GL_EXT_texture_env_add
...using GL_ARB_multitexture
...using GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array
~160 fps at 640x480 fullscreen
~156 fps at 640x480 window
On 1280x1024x24 desktop both without sound.
Did you enable r_ext_compressed_textures 1? Otherwise, quakeIII won't 
use compressed textures.

Note that the alpha decompression of DXT5 (in txformat_tmp.h) is 
horribly broken - stupid bug, the version from the earlier patch is 
actually correct (games likely never need this).
You will also get quite a few color banding artifacts. It's kinda 
funny, you can get absolutely HUGE color errors in theory (because a 
16-pixel block needs to be encoded with only 4 colors, of which only 2 
are specified directly, the others are calculated and are somewhere 
in-between the other 2 colors), but what you actually notice are 
(comparatively) very minimal color banding errors because the encoded 
colors are only 16bit, not 32bit. Though a newer version of the encoder 
reduces this problem quite a bit (some stupid design flaw which led to 
rounding errors), a really clever encoder could reduce this problem 
further (you can get better than 16bit color accuracy by means of the 
calculated colors, provided the GPU does the decoding in more than 16bit).
Another problem is the encoding can sometimes fail pretty horribly. If 
you have one white and one black pixel in your 16-pixel block, those 
will get chosen as the 2 base values. If the other 14 pixels are all 
green for instance, well tough luck - they are now all either black, 
dark gray, light gray or white... The improved encoder I have here 
improves this a bit, but fundamentally it seems to be a hard problem to 
get the best (or at least a decent) encoding - not to mention you'd need 
to figure out how to define what a good encoding actually is...
Alpha (DXT5) encding is also improved in the new version.
There's no new patch available yet - trust me, you don't want to see the 
code ;-). Furthermore, I'll convert this to use the dlopen/dlsym stuff 
as discussed already before I'll submit another patch.

Roland



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RE: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-14 Thread Daniel Vogel
[replying to multiple people]

 They also enable the old, undocumented, dead and buried
 GL_S3_s3tc extension

http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/S3/s3tc.txt


 Note that the alpha decompression of DXT5 (in txformat_tmp.h) is 
 horribly broken - stupid bug, the version from the earlier patch is 
 actually correct (games likely never need this).

The sole reason of using DXT5 over DXT1, apart from working around below
mentioned HW features on GeForce 1-4 cards, is using the alpha channel and
we most certainly make a lot of use of the alpha channel of DXT3/5 textures
and I would expect other games do the same.


 further (you can get better than 16bit color accuracy by means of the 
 calculated colors, provided the GPU does the decoding in more 
 than 16bit).

To the best of my knowledge the only GPUs that don't do this are NVIDIA's
GeForce 1-4 cards with DXT1 (they use 32 bit precision for DXT3/5). You
definitely want to use 32 bit for doing the color1/color2 blending as the
artifacts are quite noticeable for e.g. lightmaps.


 dark gray, light gray or white... The improved encoder I have here 
 improves this a bit, but fundamentally it seems to be a hard 

Check out NVIDIA's encoder as a reference as it is the best out there.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html


-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.



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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-14 Thread Roland Scheidegger
Daniel Vogel wrote:
[replying to multiple people]


They also enable the old, undocumented, dead and buried GL_S3_s3tc 
extension


http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/registry/S3/s3tc.txt
Yes, but everything there just says unknown - no compression format,
nothing interesting at all (except the format tokens), even how to
submit compressed textures is just a guess there! This is not what I'd
call documentation.

Note that the alpha decompression of DXT5 (in txformat_tmp.h) is 
horribly broken - stupid bug, the version from the earlier patch is
 actually correct (games likely never need this).


The sole reason of using DXT5 over DXT1, apart from working around 
below mentioned HW features on GeForce 1-4 cards, is using the 
alpha channel and we most certainly make a lot of use of the alpha 
channel of DXT3/5 textures and I would expect other games do the 
same.
Yes certainly. But software decompression of textures really should
never happen in games (performance of software rasterization really 
isn't good...), and I don't think current games have much use for 
reading back decompressed textures.


further (you can get better than 16bit color accuracy by means of 
the calculated colors, provided the GPU does the decoding in more 
than 16bit).


To the best of my knowledge the only GPUs that don't do this are 
NVIDIA's GeForce 1-4 cards with DXT1 (they use 32 bit precision for 
DXT3/5). You definitely want to use 32 bit for doing the 
color1/color2 blending as the artifacts are quite noticeable for e.g.
 lightmaps.


dark gray, light gray or white... The improved encoder I have here 
improves this a bit, but fundamentally it seems to be a hard


Check out NVIDIA's encoder as a reference as it is the best out 
there.

http://developer.nvidia.com/object/nv_texture_tools.html
I did take a look there earlier but
1) I couldn't figure out what the original license for the source code 
is (nvidia's license wouldn't permit the use of the source code for 
anything)
2) I have no idea if this is the same algorithm which is used in the 
DXT_TOOLS anyway
3) Being an offline solution it might not be suitable for online 
compression (might emphasize quality over performance too much)
4) at first look it seemed to miss the DXT5 encoder
5) It's way more fun to write an own implementation ;-)

Roland



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RE: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-14 Thread Daniel Vogel
 Yes certainly. But software decompression of textures really should
 never happen in games (performance of software rasterization really 

FWIW, that's how we handle support for cards that don't support texture
compression as we store our textures pre- compressed. I agree though that it
doesn't make sense to expose the extension if the hardware can't handle it.
The app is much better suited to work around the lack of texture compression
than DRI/Mesa.
 
BTW, Kyro I/II is an interesting example as they expose
GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc though only implement DXT1 in hardware.


 isn't good...), and I don't think current games have much use for 
 reading back decompressed textures.

Correct.


 I did take a look there earlier but

Sorry, I meant as a quality reference.


-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.   



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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-13 Thread Dieter Ntzel
Am Sonntag, 28. Dezember 2003 23:00 schrieb Roland Scheidegger:
 ok, here it is, the long-awaited, highly controversial new patch ;-).
 (patches against current Mesa cvs, if you used the older version you
 need to reverse it first).
 The radeon/r200 patches have a texture alignment problem (with small
 textures/mipmaps whose height is bigger than width) fixed. I believe it
 is now 100% correct except possibly for rgba_dxt1 textures (still lack
 a test app). They also enable the old, undocumented, dead and buried
 GL_S3_s3tc extension

Can find that string.

 (needed for QuakeIII/rtcw, don't know about 
 rtcw:et). This time I haven't tested the r200 patch, only radeon so use
 at your own risk.

r200.

How can I enable this?

...loading libGL.so.1: Initializing OpenGL display
...setting mode 3: 640 480
Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 2.2
XF86DGA Mouse (Version 2.0) initialized
XFree86-VidModeExtension:  Ignored on non-fullscreen/Voodoo
Using 8/8/8 Color bits, 24 depth, 8 stencil display.
GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI R200 20030328 AGP 4x x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE TCL
Initializing OpenGL extensions
...GL_S3_s3tc not found
...using GL_EXT_texture_env_add
...using GL_ARB_multitexture
...using GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array
XF86 Gamma extension initialized
Trying SMP acceleration...
^3ERROR: SMP support was disabled at compile time
...failed.

GL_VENDOR: Tungsten Graphics, Inc.
GL_RENDERER: Mesa DRI R200 20030328 AGP 4x x86/MMX+/3DNow!+/SSE TCL


I can test rtcw on r200 for you if we get it going.

 The mesa patch now contains a DXTn compressor (and has some bug fixed
 with the alpha decoding of DXT5, though this is untested).
 Per default, all software decompression/compression is disabled, but I'm
 sure you can figure out how to change that ;-).
 I've also done some mesa changes, since mesa based it's decision if it's
 a compressed format (and which one) on the suggested format supplied by
 the application, not the format which actually got used. This will lead
 to crashes if for instance the application suggests a compressed format
 and the driver decides (which is perfectly legal) it wants to store it
 uncompressed. Though I'm not convinced if this is an elegant fix, maybe
 it would be better just to remove the texImage-IsCompressed and
 texImage-CompressedSize fields (just use texImage-TexFormat-TexelSize
   instead, the CompressedSize could also be calculated whenever it's
 needed).

 Issues:
 - Not sure if the GL_S3_s3tc formats are really exactly the same as the
 GL_ext_texture_compression_s3tc formats. Mesa assumed this, so I just
 assumed it too.

I have the quake3-smp binary, too.
But sadly something is broken since Ian changed something in the gl context 
code some months ago. It worked before and gave additional ~10 fps and very 
nice system load.

I only get a black (empty) window.

He posted some hints several weeks ago but my system disk crashed and 
it took some time to get on pair, again...

-Dieter


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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2004-01-02 Thread areversat
Well well, i just tried the patched version of the CVS tree with ut2003
and it's simply great, textures are just looking fine and the game is
far more playable than it used to be, yet i had to disable TCL to avoid
having purple textures sometimes. It really would be a shame if this
patch wasn't integrated in some way in the dri project (or elswhere)
because now the dri drivers really can be compared to the ati official
drivers (for me the dri are way more stable and now offer the same
visual quality (but not yet the same performance...))
P.S. just to let you know i played ut2003 in 1024x768 with the default
quality values and tcl off on a radeon 9000 Mobility, a p4 2Ghz and
512Mo ram...
P.P.S. CVS date is 26/12/2003

Really Steve you've done a great job with this patch, thanks.

Le lun 29/12/2003 à 04:37, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
 Hi,
 Patch is working very nicely on my 9200, textures look great in NWN. 
 q3a runs fine as well although I didn't play around with the texture 
 settings much.
 
 Many thanks.
 
 Regards
 
 Steve.
 
 
 
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Re: [Dri-devel] new s3tc patch

2003-12-28 Thread sdawson
Hi,
   Patch is working very nicely on my 9200, textures look great in NWN. 
q3a runs fine as well although I didn't play around with the texture 
settings much.

Many thanks.

Regards

Steve.



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