[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder
A lot of people in this thread are missing the point. This hobby is about experimentation and trying new things, maybe improving on existing commercial implementations, maybe going down dead ends, but so what? If Codec2 comes to fruition then I for one will probably support it in my D-Star repeater software, it'd be fun. Maybe no one will use it, but so what? It's a hobby. I would also like to see a move away from 4800 Bd GMSK and maybe go to 9600 Bd and using the G3RUH modem, most of our radios would be able to handle it, it'd be easy to distinguish on air, and there'd be extra bits available to add some FEC to the slow data. Jonathan G4KLX
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder
At 06:06 PM 6/8/2010, you wrote: I would also like to see a move away from 4800 Bd GMSK and maybe go to 9600 Bd and using the G3RUH modem, most of our radios would be able to handle it, it'd be easy to distinguish on air, and there'd be extra bits available to add some FEC to the slow data. Now, this might be a way to bring codec2 into the fold, by having a new voice/data system, with no RF level compatibility with D-STAR, and learning from D-STAR's shortcomings. Gateways could be built to translate between the two systems, so the D-STAR network is tied to the new network. I know my hotspot radio could handle 9600, it was originally built to handle the G3RUH modem. What would I like to see? Variable voice/slow data bandwidth - bandwidth can be allocated to voice, slow data or a mix (i.e. similar to D-STAR) of the two. Obviously, the protocol will need to be able to signal dynamically whether a frame contains voice or data. being able to smoothly shift between high quality 9600 bps voice to 9600 bps of just data would be handy. 9600 bps is a more useful bandwidth, but I'd also like to see a narrowband version (4800 bps or slower), which could be used where channel bandwidth is limited. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Codec2 development - open source vocoder
At present repeaters do not have codec chips. Data is simply passed through the repeater and to the internet as it is received using the header for routing. Going from data to VF and back would introduce quantizing errors. Massaging the data from one format to another might work at the cost of processing time. Glad to see great minds at work and wish the best on the new codec project. steve On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 11:07 PM, a cutler22 acutle...@yahoo.com wrote: My comment on innovation *could* apply to commercial, closed source vocoders - a modular codec setup applied at the repeater level NU5D - Nickel Under Five Dollars
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder
So my question is, how long has the G3RUH modem and other CODECs been around that could make a VHF/UHF communications system like D-STAR. From my knowledge, the solution has been available for probably 5+, if not 10+ years. But yet the glorious Amateur Radio Experimentation hasn't come up with a solution that used it. Only now, after Japan got way ahead of the rest of the world, has there even been a slight push in Amateur digital technologies. Sure, I would love for there to be a LOT MORE EXPERIMENTATION. But guys, don't try to just do the same thing as D-STAR, go beyond, well beyond what D-STAR can do. Put the JARL D-STAR specs to shame and let's show the world what's possible, not just another we can too solution. What we need is something like the ability to place hot spots all over the place and the hot spots interoperate and are connected to the Internet (as well as other possibilities) and are smart enough to handle handoffs from other hotspots as you move around. And then the radios are probably similar to today's D-STAR radios, but able to handle the handoffs and can provide 4.8, even 9.6 bps error protected data transfer. Forget about duplexers and use 440 in and 1.2GHz out. Doing D-STAR better than D-STAR, well, sounds more spiteful than innovative! Let's be innovative! Ed WA4YIH From: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com [mailto:dstar_digi...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Naylor Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:06 AM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder A lot of people in this thread are missing the point. This hobby is about experimentation and trying new things, maybe improving on existing commercial implementations, maybe going down dead ends, but so what? If Codec2 comes to fruition then I for one will probably support it in my D-Star repeater software, it'd be fun. Maybe no one will use it, but so what? It's a hobby. I would also like to see a move away from 4800 Bd GMSK and maybe go to 9600 Bd and using the G3RUH modem, most of our radios would be able to handle it, it'd be easy to distinguish on air, and there'd be extra bits available to add some FEC to the slow data. Jonathan G4KLX
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder
If Codec2 comes to fruition then I for one will probably support it in my D-Star repeater software, it'd be fun. Maybe no one will use it, but so what? It's a hobby. You could support any codec, especially if you do not decode/re-encode and just pass a bit stream, but seriously, who is going to build the radios? Perhaps this could just be a dv dongleless VOIP system akin to dv dongle to dv dongle communications now (but without an RF presence). The D-Star system of DVAR exists today solely because ICOM chose, for whatever reason, to build digital amateur radios. Their choice of codec is really pretty secondary to the fact they chose to mass produce digital RF terminals. Folks were experimenting with codecs long before ICOM moved, and folks, in very small numbers, will continue to experiment long into the future, but until someone produces RF terminals with a different codec (and an internet backbone), this will continue to be solely chit-chat, like this interesting discussion thread. 73--John
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: What Antenna Do You Use?
I use the Comet SMA24 with a Gain of 2.15 on 146 and 3.4 on 440 that is about 17 long. I get in the K8BIG repeater that is 35 miles away standing in my yard. I hope this will be of some help to you. Bob, N3PUG --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, john_ke5c k...@... wrote: I just ordered an IC-92AD. I've read (like with all HT's) that the antenna that comes with it is sub par. I wondered what what members of the group was using. I currently have a SRH999 and a SRH320 that I interchange with my VX-7R/VX-8R. I'm sure these will work, but wondered if anyone knows one that would be better? I really like the SRH77CA Dualband, and it's 15 inch length is about the maximum I can tolerate with an HT. http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/srh77ca.html If I were to do it again, I'd try the SRH519 at half the gain but also half the length: http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/srh519.html 73--John
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] What Antenna Do You Use?
Mike: I've used (read destroyed) just about every type of HT antenna on the market. They all have some kind of trade off, but some are clearly worse than others. It really all depends on what you want to do with your HT, how you intend to carry it, and how hard you are on your radio and antennas. Both of the antennas you mention are longer and higher gain, with the SRH999 being the larger and floppier of the two. Since you're looking at antennas like that, I assume you want performance. They will both do this, and in fact I have one of the SRH320A antennas and it works well. Neither of these will survive daily use with your HT on your belt and still be anything like straight, and one thing I hate is a bent or damaged HT antenna. One of my two current favorites are the MH-511, which I use extensively for in-town and nearby communications. It's not one of the silly tiny antennas that's more of a dummy load and it's not a big floppy one either (in fact it doesn't bend), but it's more than adequate for our repeaters here. The only real problem with it is that it came with a soft outside rubber cover that quickly started showing wear and tears. I took that cover off and put on some high-quality heat-shrink (stuff with the internal sealant) and then found that the little rubber covers that come on BNC connectors with some equipment and cables fit perfectly on the top. It's now a very robust and indestructible antenna that functions well (and looks good), but not a high gain performer. My other favorate is the HT-224. It's longer and has more gain, but also has a pretty strong element. It does suffer from the same problem as most larger antennas in that it tends to get bent right at the top of the solid base section, but is clearly less likely to do this than many, including the two you're considering. I also fit high-quality heat-shrink tubing from the bottom to a ways past the point where it transitions from solid to flexible. That has essentially ended the problem with it getting bent (did I mention I hate when that happens?). A good performer that I would highly recommend. The silly little antennas that have the little wires coming out of them are pretty popular, but those get permanently bent simply by sneezing on them (boy do I hate bent HT antennas). I also have a couple much larger ones that also do somewhat of a job on 6 Meters, but there's no way anyone in their right mind would walk into a restaurant and set their HT with one of those on a table--it would be forever falling over into the salsa (yep, salsa on antennas is also a problem). So, it depends on what you want and expect from your HT antenna and how you intend to use it. Since I so dislike bent antennas (did I say that?), and I refuse to use one that is, my preference is to avoid that problem. I'm fortunate enough to live near some good repeaters, so the compromise on gain with the MH-511 is possible. Having used the little miracle type dummy load antennas and not being impressed I don't recommend them, but I don't think you're headed that way. Related to that, I have one warning. The MH-209 type has a light spring in it that easily vibrates when it's moved or tapped. The result is that it affects the antenna match to the point that it becomes micro-phonic (you can hear it over the air). I strongly advise against that antenna. OK, I wrote too much, sorry. Good luck on your HT antenna quest. Chuck - N8DNX On 6/7/2010 7:28 PM, mikew9mdh wrote: I just ordered an IC-92AD. I've read (like with all HT's) that the antenna that comes with it is sub par. I wondered what what members of the group was using. I currently have a SRH999 and a SRH320 that I interchange with my VX-7R/VX-8R. I'm sure these will work, but wondered if anyone knows one that would be better? 73's de Mike W9MDH
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] DV Dongle for sale
I have a DV Dongle for sale - $165.00 postpaid to the USA. This unit is only two months old and has been working perfectly. Thanks... Steve WD8DAS sbjohns...@aol.com http://www.wd8das.net/ Radio is your best entertainment value.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Codec2 development - open source vocoder
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 10:10 AM, a cutler22 acutle...@yahoo.com wrote: Bob - when will the AMBE patents expire? I know its years away, but are we talking 5-10 years or 20? It'd have to be closer to 5-10 years than 20; D-STAR came out in the early '00s (1999?), so AMBE had to exist (and be patented) prior to that. Patents in the US are either 20 or 14 years, depending on the type, so if AMBE was brand new when D-Star started using it, you're looking at 4-10 years at this point. Here's a list of AVSI's patents, if anyone's interested: http://www.google.com/patents?scoring=2q=inassignee%3A%22Digital+Voice+Systems+Inc%22 My suspicion based on the timing of the patent filings is that the patents in question date from the early '90s, making it much sooner, but I don't know enough about AMBE or codecs in general to interpret the patents to figure it out. 73, Bob N2KGO
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: D-STAR Reflectors BSA JOTA
Hi everyone, It would be good for those who can authorize reflectors for JOTA or scouting use to post such on the ScoutRadio at Yahoo Discussion Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ScoutRadio/ There's also http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JOTAskedbook Not a bad idea to post to both. Any plans to have D-STAR available during the National Jamboree July 26 to August 4? 73, Frank KR1ZAN Garland, TX
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-STAR Reflectors BSA JOTA
Hi Chuck, I normally put the JOTA web page for REF005C up about one week before the event. 73 de Darren G7LWT On 8 June 2010 03:02, Charles Miller miller5...@bellsouth.net wrote: Darren et al.: Many thanks for the input. Do you know who puts together the web page? I will try to get Boy's Life to include that information on the issue that talks about the JOTA. Thanks, Chuck KD4NGA - ARRL AAR4HO - MARS WUZ - Federal - US Army Corps of Engineers kd4...@arrl.net kd4nga%40arrl.net charles.h.mil...@us.army.mil charles.h.miller%40us.army.mil (251) 341 - 1004 (HOME) (251) 694 - 3605 (WORK) -Original Message- From: Storer, Darren [mailto:darren.sto...@gmail.comdarren.storer%40gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:11 PM To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com dstar_digital%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] D-STAR Reflectors BSA JOTA Hi Chuck, REF005C will be made available for JOTA again this year, for the 3rd year running. As in previous years, a special web page will be made available for JOTA users to monitor traffic on REF005C. 73 de Darren G7LWT On 7 June 2010 02:52, Charles Miller miller5...@bellsouth.netmiller5447%40bellsouth.netmailto: miller5...@bellsouth.net miller5447%40bellsouth.net wrote: I know there were D-STAR users that supported the Boy Scouts Jamboree-On-The-Air (JOTA) last October. In preparation of this year's JOTA, I was wondering what if any plans there are to use any reflectors. W4IAX D-STAR system will be active with JOTA and would like to make arrangements to maybe have something printed in the Boy's Life about the D-STAR and JOTA. Input requested!!! Thanks, Chuck KD4NGA - ARRL AAR4HO - MARS WUZ - Federal - US Army Corps of Engineers kd4...@arrl.net kd4nga%40arrl.net mailto:kd4nga%40arrl.netkd4nga%2540arrl.net charles.h.mil...@us.army.mil charles.h.miller%40us.army.mil mailto: charles.h.miller%40us.army.mil charles.h.miller%2540us.army.mil (251) 341 - 1004 (HOME) (251) 694 - 3605 (WORK)
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Read only access to a dstar repeater via dvap dongle
I've registered with a local dstar repeater and received a confirmation email with instructions on how to set my personal data - which I've done following the instructions at http://www.dstargateway.org/D-Star_Registration.html. Is there a document that explains what the fields (in step 9) on the web form are used for (personal information)? After following these instructions I try to connect via the dvap to the repeater I've just registered on - I get connected and I hear an audio response that I'm connected in read only mode. I'd like to be able to call someone on this repeater - is there another step I need to take to be able to transmit on the repeater via the dvap or is it that the repeater only allows RX to dvap users? Also, am I required to register with each dstar repeater I wish to access - specifically, using the gateway. Communicating on dstar reflectors is working fine. Thanks and 73s from N7BCP.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Second World Wide DSTAR Contest
Hello everybody. An English page is updated. http://www.icom.co.jp/d-starsite/contestworld/rule.html Please practice connecting it JAPAN It would be better to be able to communicate with a lot of bonus station. When you call CQ via D-Star Repeater to Japan,set UR Call field like UR:/JP3YHFA You can not individually call (Don't write on Personal Callsign). RPT1:Use your local repeater port RPT2:Gateway repeater callsign Step on the same procedure when responding from CQ Call fromJapan. And when you calling CQ via Japanese D-Star Gateway Repeater,announce your repeater's call sign with port name. And, please repeat several times to write it down. Example UR :/JP3YHFA ( / ) is needed RPT1:WB4HRO C (C in 8th position) RPT2:WB4HRO G (G in 8th position) ( Thank you Kawa JF1TEU ) 73 TAKU JA3PTR - Original Message - From: bosshardss To: dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 10:47 PM Subject: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Second World Wide DSTAR Contest http://www.icom.co.jp/d-starsite/contestworld/ Thanks to Richard Hoskins for posting this on the Australian Dstar list.
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Read only access to a dstar repeater via dvap dongle
On 06/09/2010 01:19 AM, n7bcp wrote: I've registered with a local dstar repeater and received a confirmation email with instructions on how to set my personal data - which I've done following the instructions at http://www.dstargateway.org/D-Star_Registration.html. Is there a document that explains what the fields (in step 9) on the web form are used for (personal information)? After following these instructions I try to connect via the dvap to the repeater I've just registered on - I get connected and I hear an audio response that I'm connected in read only mode. I'd like to be able to call someone on this repeater - is there another step I need to take to be able to transmit on the repeater via the dvap or is it that the repeater only allows RX to dvap users? Also, am I required to register with each dstar repeater I wish to access - specifically, using the gateway. Communicating on dstar reflectors is working fine. Thanks and 73s from N7BCP. You have the following calls, with their ¨Last heard repeater registered correctly; [N7BCP ] [K7LWH A] [N7BCP A] [K7LWH A] It is probably just time now for the that particular repeaters' database to be updated with your information. You have done everything correct. vk4tux
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Read only access to a dstar repeater via dvap dongle
Larry, You might find the KE5RCS registration material helpful. This was prepared by one of our members, Lloyd, K1LGJ. http://www.hotera.org/Documents/KE5RCS%20Registration.pdf BTW, we'll be practicing using D-Rats tonight at 8 pm CDT on Ref 015. Brad, KV5V On 6/8/10, n7bcp n7bcp.la...@gmail.com wrote: I've registered with a local dstar repeater and received a confirmation email with instructions on how to set my personal data - which I've done following the instructions at http://www.dstargateway.org/D-Star_Registration.html. Is there a document that explains what the fields (in step 9) on the web form are used for (personal information)? After following these instructions I try to connect via the dvap to the repeater I've just registered on - I get connected and I hear an audio response that I'm connected in read only mode. I'd like to be able to call someone on this repeater - is there another step I need to take to be able to transmit on the repeater via the dvap or is it that the repeater only allows RX to dvap users? Also, am I required to register with each dstar repeater I wish to access - specifically, using the gateway. Communicating on dstar reflectors is working fine. Thanks and 73s from N7BCP.
RE: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder
At 11:34 PM 6/8/2010, you wrote: So my question is, how long has the G3RUH modem and other CODECs been around that could make a VHF/UHF communications system like D-STAR. From my knowledge, the solution has been available for probably 5+, if not 10+ years. But yet the glorious Amateur Radio Experimentation hasn't come up with a solution that used it. I'd say 10+ years. The reason I say this is: 1. The G3RUH modem was around over 20 years ago, though it was harder getting one on the air than it is now (more radios with suitable interfaces brought out to a connector nowadays). 2. Speak Freely (which IRLP is heavily based on, and Echolink is a more distant cousin of) has had open source implementations of LPC, LPC-10 and CELP (4800 bps), all of which could easily be carried over 9600bps. I was running Speak Freely in 1995 over 14.4k dialup. What we need is something like the ability to place hot spots all over the place and the hot spots interoperate and are connected to the Internet (as well as other possibilities) and are smart enough to handle handoffs from other hotspots as you move around. And then the radios are probably similar to today's D-STAR radios, but able to handle the handoffs and can provide 4.8, even 9.6 bps error protected data transfer. Hmm, a low speed voice data network, meshed by a mixture of Internet based and RF based high speed backhaul links? That could be interesting. Forget about duplexers and use 440 in and 1.2GHz out. That would simplify the engineering considerably! All we need is cost effective 1.2 GHz radio hardware (440 will be a piece of cake). 10m/6m 4800bps nodes would be interesting to play with as well. 73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Re: [DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder
On Jun 8, 2010, at 1:31 AM, Tony Langdon wrote: Obviously, the protocol will need to be able to signal dynamically whether a frame contains voice or data. It already does. The only difference in the D-STAR wrapper between encapsulated Digital Voice and encapsulated Ethernet Frames is one bit in the header. (There is some additional info in the payload, but that's it for the header.) John D. Hays Amateur Radio Station K7VE PO Box 1223 Edmonds, WA 98020-1223 VOIP/SIP: j...@hays.org Phone: 206-801-0820 801-790-0950 Email: j...@hays.org
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder
--- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, e_l_green ki6...@... wrote: --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, n9aa scott.manthe@ wrote: Reduce the $$$ barrier? The D-Star chip costs about $25. No one is going to be able to manufacture an open source vocoder chip for less than that. Agreed. For now in the radios themselves the AMBE chip is the most cost effective way to go. The cost barrier, I believe is a reference to the $200 AMBE DV dongle. As pointed out; just stream GSM (or some other open codec) over the internet to gateway stacks that have a DV dongle on site. This way anyone who wants to try D-Star from a PC or whatever doesn't need the stupid dongle. All other digital radio models have an option of transcoding/encoding at the site. The P25 Astro modem, MotoTRBO, etc. No reason to soak everyone $200.
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Re: Codec2 development - open source vocoder
If we want to drive down costs to help entice other potential manufactures lets start with open documentation of all the repeater network protocols. A few hams have reverse engineered these parts of the system. Yes I know those details aren't essential for a manufacture to build a radio, as the air protocol is well defined. But it would present a good image. --- In dstar_digital@yahoogroups.com, n9aa scott.man...@... wrote: Actually, my point was that the real way to drive down costs was for other manufacturers to jump into the ring.
[DSTAR_DIGITAL] Ozark Mountain DStar Net
The Ozark Mountain DStar Net will start at 7:00 p.m. Central Time on Sunday evenings on Reflector 1C . The net has really grown over the last 2 and 1/2 years and we are going to move it back one hour from 8:00 p.m. to 7:00 p.m. central time. Hopefully this will help the net not go so late for the stations on the east coast. We will be alternating the suffix checkins. One week we will start at the beginning of the alphabet and the net week will be starting at the end. Hope to hear everyone on the Ozark Mountain DStar Net.
