[DXR] By the numbers
Hi, One of my only comments isIt depends on the Dx station and how comfortable he or she is working the mass multitudes...We are not all like OH2BH...some of us TRY to be equal in the treatment of all...of if we work 25 per call area then we are trying to be as equal to everyone as we can.. I wished WE in the radio community would not be so vocal in our condemming someone who does not have the talents that others do. And try to undrerstand that he or she might be doing the best that they can...We all have to start somewhere.. When I go on an expedition...I do the things that I feel comfortable with...I know that I can not please everyone..so I try to please me..If I do my best to work as many as I can...then NO one should complain. If I descide to work a NET...Blasphemy.. then I will...it is my choice..you do not have to work me...it will not hurt my feelings... I made someone the net happy and that makes my day... Even if we all were someone like Marty...someone would still complain because they did not get worked or in the log...not thinking that we can NOT work them all.. or we did not work the masses as THEY think we should...so it will never end... 73, Ed NT4TT AH2BE/KH9/KH0 HL9MM 8P9GI KB6DAW/KH2/KH9/KH6 HZ1AB
[DXR] By the Numbers
Quit your griping and just go do it. I've seen and heard them all. Pileups, by the Numbers, third party, Nets or Whatever. Your just griping because they didn't pick you up the first time you called. To quote a famous NYC Mayor, "Patience and fortitude gets the job done." The thing that gripes me the most is the blustering, inconsiderate, loudmouth, overbearing so-called Hams the bugger up the frequency when a DX station is trying to make as many contacts as he can. Only to be overridden but these jerks. Just remember, they are try a whole lot harder than you are. My advice to you is, " you don't like the way the DX station is doing it. YOU go out there and try it just once. Then come back and tell us all about "Either that or try to help the guy as best as you can. Which may require you to just keep you mouth shut. Even the very worst DX station does an adequate job or you wouldn't have anything to gripe about. To every DXpeditioner - Thank you for being there for me! 73, John - KD2NL
Re: [DXR] By the numbers
Why start with W1's when the propagation favors W6 land? I am a number 1 but am located in W4 land. Some call areas only have a rather small time window to communicate with certain parts of the world. Skillful DX operators are aware of this and call the areas in order of optimum conditions. Old timers will remember Lloyd & Iris Colvin who operated from all over creation. They never started with #1 and went up in sequence; instead they called for areas in order to give them a chance to use the conditions to best advantage. No matter what the technique there will always be some who complain that they have been slighted. 73 Norm K1AA
Re: [DXR] By the numbers
ÿþ< ! D O C T Y P E H T M L P U B L I C " - / / W 3 C / / D T D H T M L 4 . 0 T r a n s i t i o n a l / / E N " > < H T M L > < H E A D > < M E T A c o n t e n t = " t e x t / h t m l ; c h a r s e t = u n i c o d e " h t t p - e q u i v = C o n t e n t - T y p e > < M E T A c o n t e n t = " M S H T M L 5 . 0 0 . 2 6 1 4 . 3 5 0 0 " n a m e = G E N E R A T O R > < S T Y L E > < / S T Y L E > < / H E A D > < B O D Y b g C o l o r = # f f f f f f > < D I V > < F O N T f a c e = A r i a l s i z e = 2 > A m e n t o t h a t ! < / F O N T > < / D I V > < D I V > & n b s p ; < / D I V > < D I V > < F O N T f a c e = A r i a l s i z e = 2 > d e t o m < / F O N T > < / D I V > < D I V > < F O N T f a c e = A r i a l s i z e = 2 > g m 4 f d m / v p 8 s d x < / F O N T > < / D I V > < / B O D Y > < / H T M L >
Re: [DXR] By the numbers
Hey -- play THEIR game or create YOUR own!!! Bill W4WX Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DXR] By the Numbers
I think some of the griping is legitimate. A straight pileup allows the loudest and/or the most skillful ops through. By the numbers COULD allow more DXers to get thru a huge pileup, but only if it is done well and correctly. I would probably have Malpelo Island in the log had he not been operating by numbers, the first time I heard him on 20m. He never got back around to 3's, but he was booming in, and with the number of people he was working in each district, I would have had plenty of time. I would have much preferred a "regular" pileup that night. Couple of nights later, T5W was operating 20 SSB by numbers. He hit 3's, I had no problem (100W + A3S @ 30ft) No gripe there. My biggest problem with operating by numbers is the inconsistency in how it's done. I was pretty frustrated after I sat by the radio for an hour just listening and waiting for 3's to come around for the /0M and he just quit after 0's. If I had know he was going to QRT, I would have spent the time looking for more DX. I agree with the guys and gals that contend that by the numbers should not necessarily be done in numerical order. On the other hand, I can't agree with the people who say to work proportional numbers to the size of the call district, unless the DX is ONLY calling the U.S.A. The fact of the matter is, the 4th call district may be the largest in the U.S., but it's not other places. Just take this area of the world. Let's see. VE4... I think there are a lot more VE7's VE3's and VE2's than there are VE4's. How about an XE4? I've never even heard one. V34? no. 6Y4? TG4? OX4? Not too common. Yes, the few I've mentioned are a smaller fraction of the ham community than the W4's, but we need to let the DX work the DX sometimes. I apologize for picking on the 4's. I don't want to seem like I'm singling out the 4's or attacking the guy who mentioned the 4's before... just an example. I personally think that by the numbers tends to be unfair and frustrate people. You get too many people getting hot under the collar waiting a chance to even TRY to call. You get people in Pennsylvania signing N3xxx/7. That's no good. By the numbers should be used sparingly and with thought but sometimes it's just the default way the DX operates. I try to deal with it as best as I can but I'd rather have a straight pile most of the time. 73, Dan N3UMH _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DXR] By the Numbers
Dan Zimmerman wrote: > > I think some of the griping is legitimate. A straight pileup allows > the loudest and/or the most skillful ops through.. Oh, the heck with it. Why not just request all those who are left handed call now! Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DXR] By the Numbers
"A straight pileup allows the loudest and/or the most skillful ops through. " I don't understand the issue; the above is the essence of DXing isn't it? Shouldn't the loudest and/or the strongest prevail? I can think of absolutely no reason to deprive a well engineered station with a skillful operator and the propagation a contact or should we all stand by for the weak and poor operators without propagation? Think about it, Bruce K1MY -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Zimmerman Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 5:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DXR] By the Numbers I think some of the griping is legitimate. A straight pileup allows the loudest and/or the most skillful ops through. By the numbers COULD allow more DXers to get thru a huge pileup, but only if it is done well and correctly. I would probably have Malpelo Island in the log had he not been operating by numbers, the first time I heard him on 20m. He never got back around to 3's, but he was booming in, and with the number of people he was working in each district, I would have had plenty of time. I would have much preferred a "regular" pileup that night. Couple of nights later, T5W was operating 20 SSB by numbers. He hit 3's, I had no problem (100W + A3S @ 30ft) No gripe there. My biggest problem with operating by numbers is the inconsistency in how it's done. I was pretty frustrated after I sat by the radio for an hour just listening and waiting for 3's to come around for the /0M and he just quit after 0's. If I had know he was going to QRT, I would have spent the time looking for more DX. I agree with the guys and gals that contend that by the numbers should not necessarily be done in numerical order. On the other hand, I can't agree with the people who say to work proportional numbers to the size of the call district, unless the DX is ONLY calling the U.S.A. The fact of the matter is, the 4th call district may be the largest in the U.S., but it's not other places. Just take this area of the world. Let's see. VE4... I think there are a lot more VE7's VE3's and VE2's than there are VE4's. How about an XE4? I've never even heard one. V34? no. 6Y4? TG4? OX4? Not too common. Yes, the few I've mentioned are a smaller fraction of the ham community than the W4's, but we need to let the DX work the DX sometimes. I apologize for picking on the 4's. I don't want to seem like I'm singling out the 4's or attacking the guy who mentioned the 4's before... just an example. I personally think that by the numbers tends to be unfair and frustrate people. You get too many people getting hot under the collar waiting a chance to even TRY to call. You get people in Pennsylvania signing N3xxx/7. That's no good. By the numbers should be used sparingly and with thought but sometimes it's just the default way the DX operates. I try to deal with it as best as I can but I'd rather have a straight pile most of the time. 73, Dan N3UMH _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DXR] By the Numbers
"A straight pileup allows the loudest and/or the most skillful ops through. " I don't understand the issue; the above is the essence of DXing isn't it? Shouldn't the loudest and/or the strongest prevail? I can think of absolutely no reason to deprive a well engineered station with a skillful operator and the propagation a contact or should we all stand by for the weak and poor operators without propagation? Think about it, Bruce K1MY -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Dan Zimmerman Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 5:54 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [DXR] By the Numbers I think some of the griping is legitimate. A straight pileup allows the loudest and/or the most skillful ops through. By the numbers COULD allow more DXers to get thru a huge pileup, but only if it is done well and correctly. I would probably have Malpelo Island in the log had he not been operating by numbers, the first time I heard him on 20m. He never got back around to 3's, but he was booming in, and with the number of people he was working in each district, I would have had plenty of time. I would have much preferred a "regular" pileup that night. Couple of nights later, T5W was operating 20 SSB by numbers. He hit 3's, I had no problem (100W + A3S @ 30ft) No gripe there. My biggest problem with operating by numbers is the inconsistency in how it's done. I was pretty frustrated after I sat by the radio for an hour just listening and waiting for 3's to come around for the /0M and he just quit after 0's. If I had know he was going to QRT, I would have spent the time looking for more DX. I agree with the guys and gals that contend that by the numbers should not necessarily be done in numerical order. On the other hand, I can't agree with the people who say to work proportional numbers to the size of the call district, unless the DX is ONLY calling the U.S.A. The fact of the matter is, the 4th call district may be the largest in the U.S., but it's not other places. Just take this area of the world. Let's see. VE4... I think there are a lot more VE7's VE3's and VE2's than there are VE4's. How about an XE4? I've never even heard one. V34? no. 6Y4? TG4? OX4? Not too common. Yes, the few I've mentioned are a smaller fraction of the ham community than the W4's, but we need to let the DX work the DX sometimes. I apologize for picking on the 4's. I don't want to seem like I'm singling out the 4's or attacking the guy who mentioned the 4's before... just an example. I personally think that by the numbers tends to be unfair and frustrate people. You get too many people getting hot under the collar waiting a chance to even TRY to call. You get people in Pennsylvania signing N3xxx/7. That's no good. By the numbers should be used sparingly and with thought but sometimes it's just the default way the DX operates. I try to deal with it as best as I can but I'd rather have a straight pile most of the time. 73, Dan N3UMH _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
RE: [DXR] By the Numbers
I totally agree with Bruce. Regardless of the method (or no method for that matter) used by the DX operator the outcome should depend on operator skill and station engineering. In situations where DX operators say they are listening from 200 to 225, how close is that to throwing a dart blind folded? How about when the operator is operating simplex and is in great demand and it is ALMOST impossible to tell who he has come back to? How about working a needed station in middle of the night when propagation is not expected? These are some of the conditions that when overcome give joy to the chase and make DX'ing the thrill that it can be. The satisfaction of finally working a long sought after station, when the deck is stacked against you, is often proportionate to the effort involved. Just think when you have worked them all you might have to watch TV :((. Howard..K2HK > >"A straight pileup allows the >loudest and/or the most skillful ops through. " > >I don't understand the issue; the above is the essence of DXing isn't it? >Shouldn't the loudest and/or the strongest prevail? I can think of >absolutely no reason to deprive a well engineered station with a skillful >operator and the propagation a contact or should we all stand by for the >weak and poor operators without propagation? > >Think about it, > >Bruce K1MY _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DXR] By the numbers
About 1 week ago I was in a pile for my number 215. The DX operator first went to split operation, QSX +5. The pile dutifully followed. After a few posts to different reflectors appeared the pile became unmanageable and the DX operator complained that he had a 30 over nine 10 kHz wide pile and could copy NO-ONE. He requested a little discipline for the pile. The pile still grew larger. >From the perspective of the DX operator, how would you manage the pile??? Go QRT? QSY? Or, force a discipline by calling numbers? He started with numbers beginning with number 5. He worked a number for about 3 minutes and then counted down. When he got to one's I jumped in. BTW, I'm still looking for #215 Think about using numbers from the perspective of the DX operator not a member of the pile. 73 and God Bless you, Deacon Dave, W1MCE __ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Hi, > One of my only comments isIt depends on the Dx station and how > comfortable he or she is working the mass multitudes...We are not all > like > OH2BH...some of us > TRY to be equal in the treatment of all...of if we work 25 per call > area then > we are trying to be as equal to everyone as we can.. >I wished WE in the radio community would not be so vocal in our > condemming > someone who does not have the talents that others do. And try to > undrerstand > that he or she might be doing the best that they can...We all have to > start > somewhere.. > When I go on an expedition...I do the things that I feel comfortable > > with...I know that I can not please everyone..so I try to please > me..If I do > my best to work as many as I can...then NO one should complain. If I > descide > to work a NET...Blasphemy.. > then I will...it is my choice..you do not have to work me...it will > not hurt > my feelings... > I made someone the net happy and that makes my day... > Even if we all were someone like Marty...someone would still complain > > because they did not get worked or in the log...not thinking that we > can NOT > work them all.. > or we did not work the masses as THEY think we should...so it will > never > end... > > 73, > EdNT4TT > AH2BE/KH9/KH0 HL9MM 8P9GI KB6DAW/KH2/KH9/KH6 > HZ1AB > > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DXR] By the numbers
I cant understand the thread here If the pileup is 10 kHz wide and 30 over nine - you couldn't ask for any thing better... Any skilled operator should work the margins of the pileup and his rate should not dip below 200/hour. Its the ones that are 1khz wide and s1 that are the hard ones to work through. By the numbers are a lazy (or unskilled) operators out. It still wont help him in the long run. It does however help to go geographically because propagation is different for each region... but then, how do you do that other than by the numbers??? Two weeks ago I heard some clown going by call areas WORLDWIDE... he would ask for 1's then work a DL1 and then a JA1 then a W1... now that really made sense. Gus Browning would shudder at today's spoon fed DXers who don't tune, monitor, live in the shack... they just wait for the beep of their spotting network... and if they have the filters set right - they wont be bothered by mundane callouts either. 73' Bill K2NJ - Original Message - From: "Dave Shrader" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, June 18, 2001 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [DXR] By the numbers > About 1 week ago I was in a pile for my number 215. The DX operator > first went to split operation, QSX +5. The pile dutifully followed. > After a few posts to different reflectors appeared the pile became > unmanageable and the DX operator complained that he had a 30 over nine > 10 kHz wide pile and could copy NO-ONE. He requested a little discipline > for the pile. The pile still grew larger. > > >From the perspective of the DX operator, how would you manage the > pile??? > > Go QRT? QSY? Or, force a discipline by calling numbers? > > He started with numbers beginning with number 5. He worked a number for > about 3 minutes and then counted down. > > When he got to one's I jumped in. BTW, I'm still looking for #215 > > Think about using numbers from the perspective of the DX operator not a > member of the pile. > > 73 and God Bless you, > > Deacon Dave, W1MCE > > __ > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Hi, > > One of my only comments isIt depends on the Dx station and how > > comfortable he or she is working the mass multitudes...We are not all > > like > > OH2BH...some of us > > TRY to be equal in the treatment of all...of if we work 25 per call > > area then > > we are trying to be as equal to everyone as we can.. > >I wished WE in the radio community would not be so vocal in our > > condemming > > someone who does not have the talents that others do. And try to > > undrerstand > > that he or she might be doing the best that they can...We all have to > > start > > somewhere.. > > When I go on an expedition...I do the things that I feel comfortable > > > > with...I know that I can not please everyone..so I try to please > > me..If I do > > my best to work as many as I can...then NO one should complain. If I > > descide > > to work a NET...Blasphemy.. > > then I will...it is my choice..you do not have to work me...it will > > not hurt > > my feelings... > > I made someone the net happy and that makes my day... > > Even if we all were someone like Marty...someone would still complain > > > > because they did not get worked or in the log...not thinking that we > > can NOT > > work them all.. > > or we did not work the masses as THEY think we should...so it will > > never > > end... > > > > 73, > > EdNT4TT > > AH2BE/KH9/KH0 HL9MM 8P9GI KB6DAW/KH2/KH9/KH6 > > HZ1AB > > > > > > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news > To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ > This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
Re: [DXR] By the numbers
Dave Shrader wrote: > > .. and the DX operator complained that he had a 30 over nine > 10 kHz wide pile and could copy NO-ONE. hmm .. what the hell is the RF-Gain knob for? =:-) 73 de Waldemar, DK3VN -- GDXF#207:Big antennas, high in the sky, are better than small ones, low! Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems http://njdxa.org/dx-news To post a message, DX NEWS items only, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Archives available at http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ This is the DXR reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org
