[e-gold-list] Australian Banks
If bank fees are high, as you seem to be saying, bank branches should be profitable if they have custom. Bank branches have been closed down, are being closed down and will continue to be closed down because the fees from branch use is less than the costs of providing the branch services. If their services are so vital people will be prepared to pay for them in sufficient numbers and at sufficient prices to keep then profitable to keep open. Nope. It's still more profitable to close down the bank branch and increase fees, especially for the Commonwealth Bank because a large proportion of their customers won't bother to change accounts. Don't give me this "Rural and Regonal Australia" bullshit. People have geographic mobility and free migration within and between the states and can move if they are jealous. There is no variation between the states that I'm aware, so moving within the country won't get you less crooked banks or better interest rates. If you want to live out in the middle of nowhere don't advocate taxing me in Sydney to pay you the dole 'cause there is no work where you live, to fix up your house/property/farm 'cause you live where it floods, to provide your children with extra subsidies for their schooling etc. etc. Thats a whole other issue, and not related to the banks here being an anti-competitive rip-off. You can deposit cash at ATMs and branches have quick drop off systems for cash deposits. Cash security is a merchant responsibility and the efficient allocation of resources results from individuals and businesses looking after their own security, bearing the costs and benefits of their security choices. Most non-branch ATMs won't accept deposits. Cash security being a merchant responsibility is another way of saying that business has an extra expense thanks to the banks cutting services that were previously provided to customers. Complete bullshit. A telephone costs just $12.05 a month to maintain and telephone banking can be accessed via a 1800 service. Everyone who wants one and does not have a bad credit rating can get a phone, the cost is trivial (well I spend a fortune on telecommunications but that is because i have cable internet, cable tv, a land line and a mobile but access to telephone services is very cheap). If you are blind you can use telephone banking, if you are deaf you can use internet banking, if you are both then get someone else to help you. If you are too old to think and act in your own interests, then don't blame the banking system or the government because it doesn't help. Average waiting times for telephone customer services are typically much shorterer then at a branch or at a supermarket, I find. Great. However other countries have all these things, without the rip- off anti-competitive banks we have here. If you want to deposit large amounts of coins, these are not legal tender for their face value under Australian law, you may have to take them to the Reserve Bank for exchange into notes. This is technically true, however banks have traditionally accepted them as a service to their customers. I once had this problem many years ago when I tried to pay for my 30c tram fare with the collection of 2c coins I had collected and the cheerful conductor (much nostalgia, all of this is now ancient history) refused to accept them. I consequently declined to buy a ticket and travelled for free. There's a very funny story behind this, the reason they brought in that law was a guy who had to pay his wife child support payments every month, and he did so by filling a hogshead barrel of treacle with an appropriate number of pennies every month. I believe money has to be clean to be legal tender also. No point paying taxable interest on balances used for transactional purposes when transaction and/or account fees are much larger. It is better to pay no interest, or trivial interest and have lower fees. You seem to be missing my point. For centuries money held on deposit by the banks has earned interest for the owner who deposits the money with the bank. The reason, of course, is that the bank wisely invests the money and lends it to others at a higher rate of interest. However the banks still lend out the money, and probably earning higher returns than ever before in history, while charging you for the privilige of borrowing it from you. The government does influence credit conditions and the macro- economy but the market allocates financial capital. The Commonwealth Bank was From your original 'point 6' 6. Government does not influence the allocation of credit in the economy, own any commercial banks or bear bank risk or insure deposits. So you contradict your first assertion. privatised by the Commonwealth Government a long time ago and it is It wasn't that long ago, less than 10 years. Which was outrageous as the original idea of the Commonwealth bank was as a 'people's bank' to offer some
[e-gold-list] Re: long article
Vincent Youngs wrote: Here is a long article about the price of gold, explaining how the speculative inflow of foreign capital into U.S. dollars is what has driven the price of gold down. http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/vanEedenGold.html Excellent. It's where it's at. The only thing I don't remember being mentioned was the "unfair taxation" that the US started in the early '80s. Corporate taxes were cut in half. Which was another incentive for capital to go to the US. Even BMW built a plant in one of the Carolinas. Bob --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Australian real estate agents and Australian Banks
With 19 million people inhabiting a continent nearly the size of the lower 48 states, we must have at least 5 times more real estate (by area, not value) than any other first world country. :) As for the banks though, I have several accounts with various institutions, but only one of them has a monthly fee - my company cheque account, at AUD$5 (USD$2.50) per month. Oh, yes, my Visa card does also cost me about AUD$2 per month. There are plenty of options available here, but many wingers complain about the major banks, but refuse to opt for a minor bank or other financial institution. Their inflexible elasticity of demand is responsible for any extra fees charged by their hated, but doggedly devoted to Commonwealth, ANZ, Westpac and National Australia Banking institutions. (These are very large nation-wide (and multinational/Australian-based) banks, much larger than the average US bank.) Rather than demanding government intervention, which these people usually do, the simple use of consumer choice is appropriate. *** This is where credit cooperatives, building societies, regional banks, *and* e-gold come in. Regards, Ian Green ao.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 15 April 2001 10:06 AM To: e-gold Discussion Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Australian Banks SNIP Then there's the bloody REAL ESTATE AGENTS! :) Australia I observe has an incredible number of real estate agents ... easily 5 times more per capita than other first world countries! It's wieird! SNIP --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Australian Banks
I had a little trouble finding the legal tender laws when I wrote the last email on this topic (I was sure I had seen them in the Reserve Bank of Australia Act but could not find them there, i found some in another statute). I should do some research on this topic. The relevant act is I think called something like the Currency Act. I don't think it's changed much for years, Austlii.edu.au is a good place to start. BTW, I'm on the list, therefore I receive the messages posted to the list, so you don't need to send them to me seperately. New Books at Discount Prices --- Send the right message --- + Today freemail + Get your free, private email address at http://www.today.com.au --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] (Fwd) URGENT! Tax Day Deadline!
If the LP took egold for ther donations, I think they would get money faster. To everyon on the egold list: email the LP and ask them why they don't take the Libertarian egold currencies. John --- Forwarded Message Follows --- Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:42:50 -0400 (EDT) To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: URGENT! Tax Day Deadline! From: Libertarian Party Announcements [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Dear friend: In less than 72 hours, we will run out of money for our Internet banner ad project. If I don't send a check for $5,000 to our Internet ad agency on Monday, April 16th, our hard-hitting IRS/Armed Robbery ads will start to VANISH from the Internet. It couldn't happen at a worse time! April 16th is Tax Day. * It's the beginning of the week when Americans are most angry about their high taxes. * It's the week when Americans are most receptive to our Libertarian message. * It's the week when Americans are most likely to visit our site -- and discover that we're the ONE party that will end the income tax and abolish the hated IRS. But unless we raise $5,000 by Monday at noon, our banner ads will start to vanish. This opportunity will be lost. If that happens, pro-tax Republican and Democrats will be able to breathe easy. IRS bureaucrats will be able to gloat about their job security. And the income tax will be safe. Your contribution RIGHT NOW can keep our banner ads up and running. Your contribution RIGHT NOW can keep our banner ad experiment alive. We've already learned a lot from the campaign's first week: * We learned that one particular banner ad can DOUBLE our response rate on the Libertarian-friendly WorldNetDaily.com site. * We've learned that people who respond to our Drug War banner ad are TWICE as likely to immediately join the Libertarian Party. We need to start applying these lessons -- so we can boost our response rates even more. And there'll NEVER be a better time to do it than April 16th, and the rest of Tax Week. It's up to you: Do we keep running our banner ads during this one unique, valuable week when people are MOST receptive? Or do our banner ads VANISH from the Internet? Your contribution of $100 will keep the ads alive. If you don't have $100, then $50 would help. Even $25. But we need it right now. On Monday morning, we'll see how much money has been contributed. If we've reached $5,000, I write the check at noon -- and keep the banner ads alive. Here's what you can do: Visit... http://www.lp.org/action/banners/vote0052.html There's a place there to make an immediate credit card donation. If you haven't seen the banner ads yet, you can do so there. I think you'll love them. Or, you can print out the form at the end of this message, and mail it to us it with a check. But if you do, please send me an email message so I know it's coming (and we can count it towards the $5,000). My email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember, there will NEVER be a better time for our banner ads to be effective and than April 16th and the rest of Tax Week! Thank you, Steve Dasbach National Director PS: Please, don't count on someone else making a contribution to keep the banner ads experiment going. That "someone else" may not come through. If you want this project to succeed, YOU must step forward. That's what responsibility is all about. Just visit http://www.lp.org/action/banners/vote0052.html right now! Make your best contribution. If you can do that, we'll keep our banner ads running through Tax Week. But please act fast -- we have less than 72 hours! HERE'S THE CONTRIBUTION FORM: Please print out the form below on your computer printer, fill it in, and enclose it with your check. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ENCLOSED IS MY CONTRIBUTION OF: [ ] 5000 [ ] $1000 [ ] $500 [ ] $250 [ ] $100 [ ] $50 [ ] $25 [ ] Other $ LIMITATIONS: Contributions to political committees are not tax-deductible. Please make your check payable to "Libertarian Party" or provide the following information for credit card payment: [ ] Mastercard [ ] Visa [ ] Discover [ ] American Express Card number Expires Signature__ Name___ Address City_ State Zip Phone__ E-Mail_ Occupation_ Employer___ Government Mandated Notices: The Federal Election Commission requires political committees to report the name, mailing address, and occupation and name of employer for each individual whose contributions aggregate in excess
[e-gold-list] Re: Fractional Reserve Banking
HK Kid wrote "What you say is true (altho it would violate the terms of governance of the e-gold system) but it is beside the point of what I understood to be the original topic. Namely, the assertion that the use by a 3rd party, such as SR, of e-gold to back another currency, such as AUG, would introduce risk to e-gold itself." Why did you paraphrase two distinct, contradictory comments from two different people into one quoted statement? 1. It will increase the supply of "gold" on paper - thus contributing to gold's loss of value against other goods and services, hurting all holders of gold, even if only infitesimally. The widespread adoption of this practice will most certainly keep the price of gold down just as gold derivatives on paper are assisting to keep the price down today. From what I understand... The gold derivatives aren't driving the price of gold down anywhere near as much as our governments doing strategic dumping of their gold reserves on the market. To put it in the simplest terms - fractional reserve banking and/or derivatives will cause the total amount of gold in everyone's books to greatly exceed the actual amount of gold in the world. However e-gold is 100% backed by gold. Not paper gold, the purty, heavy, shiny variety. While the growth of the "ether-gold" supply will hurt the currency of the fractional-reserve institution the most, it will also hurt ALL holders of real gold by "adding dross" to dilute the pure metal. It is a subtle form of theft. It breaks the command "thou shalt not steal" which is fundamental to the success of a free-market economy. There is no such commandment neccesary. The free-market economy is capitalism with instant communication via the net and without government intervention, right? Anybody who acts deceitfully will not be dealt with anymore. Reputation is your most valuable commodity in a free-market economy. Capitalism succeeds because it is based upon one of humanity's greatest failings... Greed. However, without sufficient communication, capitalism can burn itself out because there are no feedback mechanisms. This is why we have had government intervention. The government institutes law after law to regulate Capitalism into some sort of Socialism. Socialism would be a great system to live under, however it doesn't take into account the one thing that Capitalism does; Greed. However, now, with the instant world-wide communication provided by the internet, the feedback mechanisms are now beginning to exist. Anybody who doesn't ensure the purity of their product and passes it off as so will not be in business for long. If there is no government intervention, an added responsibility is needed. "Caveat Emptor" becomes completely true again. Viking Coder Worth Two Cents? http://www.2cw.org/VikingCoder --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Themestream drops dead.
Ordinarily, this would be ho-hum stuff. Another dot.com that lacked a revenue model (and, as far as I know, never even *looked* at e-gold) croaks keels-over. "Big deal," I'd ordinarily say, but unfortunately it means that a certain interesting article, which *WAS* at: http://www.themestream.com/articles/310965.html?pid=00240101 is now no-longer there. Sigh. Hopefully, Parker (cced) has a copy and can put it up again, it provides valuable context into his case for those willing (able?) to read. JMR --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fractional Reserve Banking
Capitalism succeeds because it is based upon one of humanity's greatest failings... Greed. Greed - the desire to improve one's situation - is not a failing; it is a virtue. Wow, I agree! There are those who set their image of man to be somewhat different than man is. Then when man doesn't live up to their image, they say that man has failed. The ideal -- virtue -- is in defined by what man IS, not by what some people would LIKE him to be. Greed is good! However, the English Language, as extent as it is, is limited. There are those who tie greed in with the desire to exceed at ALL costs, even those costs which specifically violate the rights of others. Yet, there is no word to make the distinction between the two: the type of greed where one desires to strive and succeed to be the best that one can be, making as much money as possible; and the second type of greed where one simply takes from others, more and more, without regard to human rights. Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Suggested changes to SCI
Hi, I think the SCI should report to the merchant everything in the unit the merchant chose (or the customer). For example, if the merchant sets the only accepted unit as the gram, the SCI should report the USD/g, NOT the USD/oz!! Same thing with the payment receive fee and all the other info on there. I mean, it doesn't make sense to have one part of the SCI report something in grams, and all the other stuff to be in oz. Plus, this isn't too hard to code. It would greatly simplify the work of merchants and make us happier. Tristan Petersen --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fractional Reserve Banking
Capitalism succeeds because it is based upon one of humanity's greatest failings... Greed. Greed - the desire to improve one's situation - is not a failing; it is a virtue. Wow, I agree! .. "The Utopia of Greed" in Atlas Shrugged comes to mind :) Tristan --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fractional Reserve Banking
Tristan Petersen wrote: Capitalism succeeds because it is based upon one of humanity's greatest failings... Greed. Greed - the desire to improve one's situation - is not a failing; it is a virtue. Wow, I agree! .. "The Utopia of Greed" in Atlas Shrugged comes to mind :) 'cept the best way to achieve it is to parrallel, circumvent, and outcompete the old larceny - instead of trying to "go on strike". Or to flip the same idea to its other side: the internet, the pan-national economy, and the world's tax havens will play the part of "Galt's Gulch". --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] great article
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/vanEedenGold.html thanks to whoever posted that! fascinating long article! If you ever want to find it, I linked to it on http://bananagold.com , right by Bob's Bananagold Gold Column. JP! --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Australian real estate agents and Australian Banks
The US, I believe, Has over 200 Million people. Is the turn over of property in Aussie that much? I would doubt it given the small population MM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "e-gold Discussion" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 10:03 AM Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Australian real estate agents and Australian Banks With 19 million people inhabiting a continent nearly the size of the lower 48 states, we must have at least 5 times more real estate (by area, not value) than any other first world country. :) Your analysis is in error, Ian! That would suggest that Aussie should have real estate agents that are five times LARGER IN SIZE than in other countries, rather than five times MORE real estate agents than in other countries! Regards, Ian Green ao.com.au --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fractional Reserve Banking
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "What you say is true (altho it would violate the terms of governance of the e-gold system) but it is beside the point of what I understood to be the original topic. Namely, the assertion that the use by a 3rd party, such as SR, of e-gold to back another currency, such as AUG, would introduce risk to e-gold itself." That was not the point of my original post , actually. The point was, fractional reserve banking in gold will do one or both of the following: 1. It will increase the supply of "gold" on paper - thus contributing to gold's loss of value against other goods and services, hurting all holders of gold, even if only infitesimally. The widespread adoption of this practice will most certainly keep the price of gold down just as gold derivatives on paper are assisting to keep the price down today. To put it in the simplest terms - fractional reserve banking and/or derivatives will cause the total amount of gold in everyone's books to greatly exceed the actual amount of gold in the world. The growth of this paper gold supply steals value from the holders of gold by passing something as gold that really isn't. its not theft to provide a liquidity service. fractional reserve banking provides liquidity and is a free market credit configuration. Although it is possible that depositors will have a delay in redeeming their deposits or suffer a capital loss on their deposits, they are compensated for these risks by the payment of interest and the provision of liquidity. Fractional reserve banking economiese on the moneyary base and slightly reduces its value, but this loss of value is analgous to any commodity where users economise on its use, i.e. any commodity whatsoever. Economising on gold for monetary use is no different from any other cost-minimisation and transaction cost minimsation market process. Fractional reserve deposits for gold are gold substitutes, denominated in gold and redeemable for gold, and can act as money, transfering value from payer to payee. 2. It will cause the particular currency that is being issued to devalue against 100% backed currencies. While the growth of the "ether-gold" supply will hurt the currency of the fractional-reserve institution the most, it will also hurt ALL holders of real gold by "adding dross" to dilute the pure metal. It is a subtle form of theft. It breaks the command "thou shalt not steal" which is fundamental to the success of a free-market economy. The value of gold deniminated demand deposits is pegged to the value of gold by the deposit taking institution and cannot differ much from its peg. It is not theft to offer a valued service (liquidity and interest together) to the market, to those who wish to freely avail themselves of the service. It is not theft for suppliers to create substitutes for goods and for consumers to buy them, even though it harms the produces of the original good. Competition reduces profits but this is not theft. The price of gold is determined by supply and demand, not fixed by God or the state or anything else. The market should be free to economise on its use of gold and to create gold substitutes, whether for industrial or monetary purposes. I would also like to reiterate that there is nothing wrong with lending or creating debt-based instruments, as long as it is done in such a way that only one person actually owns the gold at a given instant in time. In other words, when I lend 1000 grams at interest to the bank, Metalsavings, or whatever, I should not have a demand account that says I have 1000 grams of gold. In order to lend at interest without creating a fractional reserve system, there has to be a time contract associated with the loan. I give up the money to the borrower for x period of time to be paid pack at y% interest. Lenders have a clear choice about lending their funds: 1. lend to banks in the form of interest bearing demand deposits or 2. lend to companies in the form of buying securitised debt (bonds) Typically 1. offers a lower rate of interest because the additional liquidity of the asset has an economic value, as does the reduced risk that comes from pooling of debt risks. 2. typically offers a higher rate of interest because lenders must be compensated for reduced liquidity and less pooling of risk. This proves that liquidity has a market value and is a good people are willing to pay for, and that fractional reserve banks provide this good. I agree that the GoldMoney clause is rather vague. If GoldGrams are money and I want to borrow $1000 from a bank using my 100 grams of GoldMoney as collateral, why shouldn't I? It would be interesting to find out GoldMoney's intent behind the clause. HK Kid David Hillary --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[e-gold-list] Re: Fractional Reserve Banking
Greed - the desire to improve one's situation - is not a failing; it is a virtue. True. As craig said, we don't have the proper words to describe the good form of greed vs. the common connotation of greed. Well, we do have the word 'avarice'. There are plenty of proper words in the English language to describe the qualities that the common culture falsely associates with greed. larceny, mendacity, looting, victimizing, blood-sucking, ad infinitum The reason that the common culture identifies such qualities with the desire to advance one's life is that it falsely believes that such means are necessary to selfish ends when the truth is that they are incompatible with true selfishness. No, that is not why there is government intervention. That is only an excuse. Governments intervene because those who have the power consider it to their advantage to do so. Yeah. I wasn't saying we needed government intervention. I said that is why we had it. Yes I understood that was what you were saying. And I said that was NOT why we had it; that that is only an excuse made up to rationalize after the fact something the powerful decide to do for other reasons (it gives them more power). [Just because a politician says he is going to take your savings to feed the widows and orphans does not mean that is the real reason he does it.] CCS --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
