[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
I actually enjoy the objections of both Patrick and Frank because they are contructive and make sense. Here we go: Patrick, if you lend someone a piece of gold and get the piece bank plus a smaller one, you won't be hauled to prison - BUT - might be forced to donate the smaller piece to a charity fund. What two adults do among themselves is up to them, unless one of them gets something for nothing. The charging of interest is forbidden in so far that someone gets something for nothing. Now, if the guy comes to you to get one piece of gold in order to buy something and sell it a profit and you participate in the profit, that is perfectly fine. You shared the risk, hence you are entitled to share in the profit. How much of the profit you get is a matter of negotiation between the two of you. If you however charged him interest, did not share the risk and got something for nothing, then you loose the something extra you got. Frank, by not allowing people to get themselves into debt the system actually forces freedom on them. Think about it for a minute. Our perceived freedom is unreal when we are forced to pay the governments' interest through indirect taxes and inflation. Our right to choose interest bondage is not impaired by the abolishment of interest. Instead the right to accept people into bondage through lending them money at an interest is curtailed. Your ex-wifes are welcome to try to sell themselves into bondage, that's their free choice. The one who accepts them, though, will be punished. If you are offering money at interest to the public, then in most countries you need a license - which you are very unlikely to be able to get as a private individual with very limited means. BUT lending third parties your money against interest without a license is illegal in this day and age in most countries. The law is seldom enfoced, but it's still there. And if you lend too much to too many people the gov will try to get you on money laundring and racketeering charges. Again, this is what is happening today. By abolishing interest however, we do not abolish the profit motive nor do we abolish lawful gaining from investments. You started out by mentioning the value of the time factor. There is no reason why you should not charge something for your time and service, an administration fee or service charge if you will. But that one must be independent from the amount of the 'investment' and should be calulated based on the time and effort you put in. As you see, you would get to levy those charges because you did something for it. If you are willing to invest into the promise of an ex-wife to pay you back for buying her a new wardrobe, then that could entitle you to charge a risk fee. But you can't charge fees on fees and by charging a risk fee you would invite your ex to simply spend the gold and never pay you back. The crux of the matter is indeed that interest accrues interest and that someone gets something without doing anything for it. It might come as a surprise to many Americans on the list, but most non-US holders of credit cards actually balance their accounts at the end of each month, many actually have positive balances on their cards. From this I deduct that having debts is not considered natural per se. Indeed, when asking some people why they didn't use their cards when they were short of cash at the end of the month, I got people saying that they would never use the credit facilities of the card because of the fees and interest. IMHO this is the way any adult human should think about it, but many succumb to the lure of instant ownership and worry about paying later. Then they often end up loosing owenership and being saddled with debt. Well, and it is you and me who are paying their debt and interest if they don't. It is you as a share holder and me as a tax payer, who suffers from people not paying back their loans and interest. You get less dividedn because the bank you hold shares in made less profit. And I pay more tax because the bank offset the loss against taxes. And everyone else pays higher interest to help the bank to cover the risk of the non performing loans. Hence the freedom of your ex's to sell herself into interest bondage costs ME, YOU and EVERYONE ELSE. And we get nothing in return. If your ex had no way to borrow, we would all be better off. If it was illegal to profit from lending her money, then nobody would give her any. And that is what I am arguning for. I am not saying that it should be impossible for people to obtain funding for worthwhile causes. I am saying that the one who gives them funding should participate in the profits and share the risk. You want to buy a car but don't have the money? No problem, I buy it and rent it to you. Lease-back, if you will. I have next to no risk, because the car is mine. You get to use the car as if it was your own and will look after it because you expect to buy it off me as soon as you have the cash. In the meantime you
[e-gold-list] Who of the exchangers operates DMT/ALTA?
Hello, In order to keep track of who is interfacing e-gold with DMT/ALTA please either send your terms directly to the poster or you may publish to this list to help all. Thank you for your assistance Dr. Tomaz de los Santos www.1stdigibank.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Debt and interest (was Re: The impressive progress of the Caliphate)
Hello Jens, I would advocate the oblishing of interest as a law, but fear that gov would never do anything like that because they line their pockets from the interest and inflation spiral. Hence, offering an alternative to the market is the way to go. As banks loose business to the alternative provider they will start to adopt and slowly interest becomes the exemption rather than the norm. In Malaysia more and more commercial banks are establishing 'Islamic Financial Instuments' since the government passed the Islamic Banking act in the early 80s and created the legal frame work for Islamic Banking as an alternative. The new, Islamic banks went from strength to strength and once people realized that you don't have to be a devout Muslim, or indeed a Muslim at all to use the alternative many switched banks, prompting the traditional institutes to compete. Currently both systems coexist in Malaysia. Of course, the banking system itself is not as sophisticated as the American or European ones and being in debt is not considered a good thing among the rural folk, which are about half of the population. It is therefore likely that introducing 'fair' banking alternatives to the market in the US or Europe would take much longer to catch on and traditional banks would fight with hands and teeth to make it impossible. In fact, an attempt to introduce fair banking on a large scale in the US is likely to result in class actions from banks for unfair competition or somesuch. By calling it 'Islamic Banking' it can be masked as a religious practice and hence the establishment can't do much against it. However, non-Muslims would then shun the new ventures because of the name. This brings us back to gov policies... It will take time, for sure. But it is already happening. Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Cash Cards
Dear Gabriel: There have been many reports I've seen about Cash Cards. Everyone I know who has a Cash Card or a V-cash account has been having difficulty, and these problems date back to about July 2003. Unfortunately, the problems have been getting worse, and not better. For my own part, I've had a V-cash account since about March 2002. I've bought a bunch of e-gold from Steve and I think Cambist.net sold some to him while I was still working there. Steve was very reliable, and I was always pleased to refer customers to Cash Cards. Nevertheless, some bad things happened. I'm not exactly sure what, though there are various flavors of rumor. Maybe Steve would like to report here about it. Several people I know have balances with Cash Cards. Steve has offered reassurances and on occasion has made good on these. It seems likely to me that with adequate capital, Cash Cards would be back on track. Of course, that's always a difficulty - getting money to put into a system that is broken without it. You either cannot get anyone to risk the money, or you have to pay greatly for it. Thus, Cash Cards may be one of those deals that falls apart due to a lack of adequate capital reserves, even though the business plan seemed pretty good. (Not great. I would have made more extensive use of jurisdictional arbitrage. I mean, +10 points for incorporating in St. Kitts, -2x10^99 points for operating out of Minnesota. Also, the software for their web site has had frequent difficulties, and I would not be surprised to learn of a criminal hack.) 4 weeks ago, I received an e-mail from Steve Renner (CashCards) that they will cancel all the green Vcash cards (that were valid until 11/04) and which I paid $89 for it only 4 months ago, plus shipping costs. I think there is certainly a problem here. A great many people have paid for these cards, which are no longer valid. One would expect some pro-rata refund, but that would exacerbate what appears to be a critical cash flow situation. In exchange they issued a Gold Card, for which they charge another $39. By doing this, they violated their own terms of agreement. It does not appear that any such fee was charged. The message I received indicated that $39 was an annual renewal fee, and for those who were current with it, the renewal fee would not be charged until it was due, and there was no fee for the new cards to those who were current with their annual dues. There is certainly some loss of style points for canceling cards that should have expired in 2004. It is not, however, necessarily Steve's choice. It could be imposed on him by the bank which issued the cards. Banks have no good reputation with me. More than this, they charge for the card, even when it was unused, a 3-6$ monthly fee, without any explanation. Sometimes is 3$, sometimes is 6$. These fees also appear to be explained in the Cash Cards terms of service. If you don't like the fees charged at Cash Cards, you might seek a nice MasterCard from GoldAge.net. Or you might not. The Gold Cards should have arrived 2 weeks ago, but no sign of them. I hadn't even heard that the Gold Cards were going to be available until one week ago. In particular, on 30 September, Steve sent out a message saying that the Gold Cards should be arriving in Minnesota this week and that was...last week. So, I am completely unable to accept your claim that the Gold Cards would be arriving two weeks ago. Your error on this matter has to be taken in the context of your other claims to color your entire message as generally false and significantly defamatory. CashCards announced on Serptember 24th for the first time that beginning with September 25th the Green Cards will be not good anymore. I got a message to that effect on 23 September, and it indicated that 30 September, midnight, would be the last time for getting funds off the card. Again, I don't agree with your claim that the 25th of September was announced on the 24th. The 23rd is a week before the 30th, which seems at least timely. I still had funds on it, because I was the only naive person left, and I trusted CashCards and Steve Renner keep his word. I've found Steve to be very trustworthy in the past. So, I don't distrust him. His business does seem to be in trouble, and I don't know what to make of it. However, what Steve has told other Cash Cards account holders is that any balance left on the old cards after 1 October would be transferred back into the V-cash system, though a 10 day waiting period applied. If I understand his message correctly, Steve is saying that by 11 October, the funds that used to be on cards would be back in the V-cash system. Since that is a day which falls on a Saturday, a patient person would allow for ten business days, which runs out by 16 October. Well, he does not have a word. Any time I asked him questions, he never replied back. And I asked him questions 2 months ago also, so he had a lot of time to answer. But he likes to
[e-gold-list] Re: What is the best symbol/abbreviation for the gold dinar?
Dear Ahmed, What do you think? If you have any other suggestions please suggest. Well, here's a thought. There is a capital D with a horizontal line through it which is part of the standard ASCII character set. It is symbol 208 which you can access in HTML by encoding #208; or with Microsoft products by typing Alt+0208 (hold down the Alt key and type 0208 on the keypad). I presume this symbol is meant to be a capital Greek character, such as delta, but that should look like a triangle. For the dinar, I'd use the 208 character and for the dirham, the 240 character (seen in HTML as #240; or by typing Alt+0240 in MS Word). I've not seen either character in widespread use, and they are sitting there in the extended ASCII character set so you may as well make use of them. (I've seen the lowercase delta character, similar to 240, used as a symbol for declination in astronomy, but that's not widespread.) I think it is a very bad idea to use g for gold since g is widely used for gram in the international scientific and business communities. The accepted symbol for gold worldwide is Au which is the chemical abbreviation from the Latin, aurum. The accepted symbol for silver is Ag which is also the chemistry abbreviation for the Latin word, argent. Lowercase s should not be used for silver. Again, in the international system of units, used by scientists around the world, s means seconds. Lowercase d is used widely to indicate a differential equation, and in physics or chemistry to indicate deuterium. Sala'am alaykum. Regards, Jim http://www.ezez.com/ --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Who of the exchangers operates DMT/ALTA?
Gold Age does ALTA exchanges. In order to keep track of who is interfacing e-gold with DMT/ALTA please either send your terms directly to the poster or you may publish to this list to help all. = Regards, Ragnar Vice Pres. - GDCA - http://www.gdcaonline.org Vice Pres. - Gold Age - http://www.goldage.net editor - Liberty Impact - http://www.libertyimpact.com __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The impressive progress of the Caliphate
No solution is perfect, but ultimately I think the idea of fiat currency is superior, if it is used responsibly. Doesn't bother me if it's not compulsory. Any group of individuals can trade amongst themselves using any combination of goods, services, or notes payable in goods and services that they choose. One of that group could even introduce fiat tokens into that mix and let them compete freely with other media of trade. The rest of the group are free to accept or reject the fiat tokens as they see fit, just as they are free to accept or reject any other goods, services, or notes as they see fit. Yes, that's exactly what I am describing. I am not pro fiat currency as such, it has to come with a free market where you can buy other (and hopefully) better stores of value.. That will force the necessary discipline on the issuers of the paper currency. As soon as you take the free market away it will go badly wrong with the fiat money. The problem with this little hunky dory free market scenario is that the history of fiat tokens is more brutal than this. History seems to suggest that the only way to get a large group of individuals to trade in fiat tokens is to coerce them into doing so by brute force. After the force is applied, the individuals will later rationalize the situation and convince themselves that the whole system is voluntary -- everyone trades in fiat tokens because everyone else does. But one can apply Menger's regression theorem to demonstrate that the true cause of the widespread use of fiat tokens is the original application of brute force many decades before. This may have happened at times, but I don't think it always came like that. In some places it somehow evolved from gold towards paper currency in a rather smooth transition. First paper was issued against the gold because it was safer and more practical to keep in your pocket. Debts and bills of exchange were invented, and fractional reserve system came into being, all probably because of need for more liquidity in a economy that was growing much faster than the supply of new gold (mining). And finally the curency was made independant from the gold backing. Ultimately there will always be taxes to pay in fiat tokens, and everyone who pays taxes will thus be forced to liquidate some real asset in exchange for fiat tokens. Property taxes alone will ensure this -- pay up in fiat tokens or we kick you off your property. Renting doesn't help because the landlord pays the taxes and passes them onto the renters. So it will be fundamentally impossible to refuse fiat tokens altogether unless one is willing to become a homeless vagrant. That is no problem as long as you have free markets where you can exchange the fiat currency for gold and vice versa. Yes there are safe havens such as gold, but issuers of fiat tokens may take steps to depress prices in that market, Which is wonderful news if you have any revenues in fiat currency. It means you can transfer your paper money into gold at a discount. Or in other words these smart issuers of fiat currency are subsidising my gold purchases by depressing the price of gold. Fantastic... I hope they can keep it up... and in any case in a serious crisis they can always issue an outright ban on gold possession, as the US did for about 40 years recently. Aha, but in a gold only economy something similar can happen. There is a serious crisis and the politicians demand a special war tax (to be payed in gold) inorder to solve the crisis. Bad politicians always find ways to steal your money, no matter whether it is paper money or gold. Between these grim and ideal scenarios there are many degrees of freedom, and some of us are opting for more freedom. Yes, and this freedom always comes with a free market, not with a particular type of money. The free market is the more crucial ingredient, not the backing of the currency. I am ready to accept any kind of money, as long as there is a free market where I can exchange it for the stores of value that I prefer... Danny --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Debt and interest (was Re: The impressive progress of the Caliphate)
Hi Robert, Okay so we are down to borrowing out of need rather than want. The theory goes that rather than borrowing or selling his watch, the farmer goes to the bank and offers a share in his business. The bank here doesn't lend but functions management for venture capital deposits. If the bank consideres the farmer's proposed use of the camel worthwhile, it will invest into the venture, buy the camel and give it to the farmer. This is not a bad idea, but it is not always the best idea. I have no objection to any of the financing techniques that do not involve interest payment and borrowing, like the building society system you mentioned and this venture capital idea, but there are cases where this is not always the best solution. I'll try to explain. Not every investment is that risky that you want to go to a venture capitalist system. This farmer may have a nice profitable business, but because of some calamity he is short on cash and now his camel has died. I can imagine that this farmer does not want to give up a 10% stake in his farm, in exchange for the money he needs, and then pay out a part of his profits forever going forward. Even if the venture capitalists allow him to buy back his stake later on, will it be at a fair price? They could be sharks too and take the 'unfair advantage' by selling him back their stake at double the fair value.. After all, I suppose these venture capitalits are also trying to make a profit, isn't it? Moreover, once the framer has sold a stake in his farm, he will need to keep a complete bookkeeping and perhaps allow these venture capitalists to poke their noses in his business because they will want to control if they receive a correct piece of the profits. Hmmm, a lot of undesirable side effects for this poor farmer who just needed a little loan to buy a new camel.. And what about the person who needs money to repair the roof of his house? Or my neighbour who needs a loan to repair his car? Are the venture capitalist people going to buy a stake in the house or the car? You can invent all kind of solutions for a financing problem, which is good, but once you start forcing less than ideal solutions just inorder to avoid borrowing and interest, then it doesn't make sense to me anymore. The funny thing is, I am not trying to ask you to invest into a venture instead of giving me a loan. Yet, you are defending a system that is rigged against you. I can tell you, if venture capital were the only way to finance a new business, then soon you will find out that this system is also rigged against you. For example. I may have discovered a great business opportunity with almost guaranteed 40% annual return on my money, risk free. It's possible. But I don't have the money to do it. In your system my only choice is to go to the venture capitalist, and he will happily take the 40% profit on the money he brings in. Maybe he will invest 80% in my business and it will mean I do all the work and he disappears with nearly all the profit. I will say this venture capital system is rigged against me. I would rather take all the risk myself and keep more of the profits. If I could go to the bank and simply borrow money at 15% interest anually, more than half of the profit will stay in my hands and much less will go to the bank. My idea is: make all these solutions available: buidling societies, venture capital, loans against interest,... and then people can make their own decisions what is the best solution in their case. And in many cases (like a broken car) taking out a simple loan and pay interest is the best idea. Danny --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Interest
Robert, I can't help but wonder in which protected shell you grew up and who instilled this sense of entitlement into you? Exactly because I didn't grew in a protected shell, I know what the risks are; I know that I have to pay more than the price of the house, unless I come up with all the money at once. And since in the example you gave I still pay more than the house is worth, I call it interest, regardless of its amount (100%, 200% or 300% after 20 years). Though the shares are a nice thing (I guess the rent I paid cover the shares, right?), I think there is no bank with such desires (at least because it would limitate their liquidity - since all their money is tied in shares). The concept behind abolishing interest is to actually share risk equally. Definitely not something you want to tell Jim! Not even I, a communist, agree with such equality. By the way, how do things work in Malaysia? Or they still have interest?! Is there any Islamic country that works without interest? P.S. What happend with your name?! Regards, George Hara --- Xnet scaneaza automat toate mesajele impotriva virusilor folosind RAV AntiVirus. Xnet automatically scans all messages for viruses using RAV AntiVirus. Nota: RAV AntiVirus poate sa nu detecteze toti virusii noi sau toate variantele lor. Va rugam sa luati in considerare ca exista un risc de fiecare data cand deschideti fisiere atasate si ca MobiFon nu este responsabila pentru nici un prejudiciu cauzat de virusi. Disclaimer: RAV AntiVirus may not be able to detect all new viruses and variants. Please be aware that there is a risk involved whenever opening e-mail attachments to your computer and that MobiFon is not responsible for any damages caused by viruses. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Cheapest e-gold scripts package with full reseller right
Dear, We have some e-gold scripts: 1. Batch Game 2. Coin Flip Game 3. Lucky Number Game 4. Bubble Game 5. Masspay system You can take a demo at http://www.v2gold.com We are selling the package including 5 scripts with full reseller/copyright right with the price only $400 e-gold. If you want to buy only one script, the price is $100 with full reseller right and $20 without reseller right. If you are interested, please contact us via email, Yahoo! Messenger (v2gold), ICQ (342378254) LIMITED TIME OFFER. Thanks for reading Regards, v2Gold Ltd. = - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - Some e-gold based scripts for selling: http://www.v2gold.com - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - . - __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] FreeCashCards - bad experience. How can netpay.tv advertise them? How can this work ?
Hello to all of you I just wasted my money on FreeCashCards (www.freecashcards.com) card, that ok, it costs only $17 plus shipping, but it is useless. Load times are 3-5 days, sometimes more. they have no customer service. They sell a GlobalOneCard, and it needs to be activated. Maybe someone can help me how to do that. I am not american citizen, so I do not have SSN#. Anyone else know how freecashcards is supposed to work? Thank you in advance Steve Carey _ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com Looking for friendships,romance and more? http://www.MyOwnFriends.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Arrention EXCHANGE PROVIDERS!
Dear Sirs, it was already announced by the staff of Gold-Pages.Net/ECMA, that we are now developing E-CURRENCY WIZARD - the flow chart for buying e-gold and e-currency. If you have any technical suggestions regarding this project, please contact us via email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bes regards. Denis A. Semenov Xgenius LLC Web: http://gold-php.com.ru E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: +7-8422-401565 Fax: +7-8422-394047 Mobile: +7-927-6303063 EGMP v.1.1 - E-Gold Mass Payments Software TuNG v.1.0 - Turing Number Generator Software EGOT v.1.0 - E-Gold Online Tool Kit EXS v.1.2 - E-Currency Exchange Software E-SCI v.1.0.2 - E-Gold SCI Generator E-Gate v.1.0.1 - E-Currency Payment Interface SmartMagnet v.1.0.3 - Web-Promotion Software --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 03:01 AM, Robert B.Z. wrote: I actually enjoy the objections of both Patrick and Frank because they are contructive and make sense. Here we go: Patrick, if you lend someone a piece of gold and get the piece bank plus a smaller one, you won't be hauled to prison - BUT - might be forced to donate the smaller piece to a charity fund. And when I say no, I will not give the smaller piece to a charity fund, the sheriff comes and takes me to prison. If I resist, he shoots me. I love the way people say you won't be hauled to prison but forget to mention the condition if you cooperate. :-) What two adults do among themselves is up to them, unless one of them gets something for nothing. ... And then when the sheriff finishes subduing me one way or the other, he takes the smaller piece of gold and gives it to the charity fund ... which gets something for nothing. The charging of interest is forbidden in so far that someone gets something for nothing. I didn't get something for nothing. I got something in exchange for giving another individual the power to use a piece of gold for an entire month. I was fortunate that the individual even bothered to pay me back at all. And besides, what's wrong with getting me getting something for nothing if the other individual AGREES to give me something for nothing? Just call it ... charity if you will. As in, gee I let you use that gold piece all month and thanks for giving it back, but brother can you spare a dime? ;o) Now, if the guy comes to you to get one piece of gold in order to buy something and sell it a profit and you participate in the profit, that is perfectly fine. You shared the risk, hence you are entitled to share in the profit. How much of the profit you get is a matter of negotiation between the two of you. If you however charged him interest, did not share the risk and got something for nothing, then you loose the something extra you got. Whoa there! I shared the risk and that entitles me to share in the profit? That almost sounds like getting something for nothing -- except that you have wisely acknowledged that assuming risk deserves compensation. Since you also state that how much of the profit I get is a matter of negotiation, then I'll simply phrase things differently to skirt the prohibition against interest. (I'm pretty sure you've made this point yourself in previous discussions.) I'll invest my gold piece in the other guy's venture (e.g. his life). I won't inquire into his business and demand a full accounting of profits. I'll just assume he's making roughly 5%, so each month I'll only require that he pay me 5% of only the amount I have invested with him (the single gold piece). I won't demand any portion of the profits he makes with his own money, because that would be getting something for nothing. Also, he can defer paying me back in full if he chooses, simply reinvesting my slice of the profits into his venture and then paying me 5% of my now larger sum of money invested with him. Presto chango! We have loans with variable payment schedules and compounded interest, and I don't get thrown in jail! Yy! I've got interest! Yaay! :-) Except I think you're saying that if his venture fails in some way, I cannot continue to demand the 5% and must forfeit my investment entirely, right? But why should that be? Surely he has some other irons in the fire, so why can't I demand that he pay me back in full including my 5% share of the profits directly related to my investment? His other ventures will just be less profitable to him, that's all. And why can't we have an agreement that if all else fails, I get his house? He could put up his house as collateral against his inability to repay me if his venture goes astray. -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Interest
George, Yes, the shares come from parts of the rent you paid once you buy the house and pay cash. The concept behind abolishing interest is to actually share risk equally. Definitely not something you want to tell Jim! Not even I, a communist, agree with such equality. This is actually quite capitalistic and if done right also pretty profitable. After all, the first few houses would be paid for by a group of members who have cash readily available. Yet, it allows for everyone to profit at minimum effort, low overheads and resonably low risk. By the way, how do things work in Malaysia? Or they still have interest?! Is there any Islamic country that works without interest? Malaysia has a hybrid system in which three types of financial institutions coexist. Commercial, Islamic and Rural banking. Early next year there will be the first VISA card from an Islamic bank, which will not charge compounding interest and which will charge no fees if the balance is paid up befre the last friday of the month. If the balance is not paid by then, then the amount will be converted into a personal negative investment with a once only service fee and monthly installments for 12 months. So yep, it is possible to run credit cards without interest ;o) P.S. What happend with your name?! The S referred to an internal joke at CyFro, my actual initial is a B. However, I did adopt a pen name in the Middle East that starts with an S. Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] RE: DVDs on sale at GoldBarter.com
I've placed some popular discs for sale at low starting prices. Come take a look. I've got over 500 titles, many starting at $5.00, so request a price list. Pity they're actually DVD-Rs without cases. And even more of a pity, I don't own the originals so I can't bid for them as per your auction rules. New Books at Discount Prices --- Send the right message --- + Today freemail + Get your free, private email address at http://www.today.com.au --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] paypal to e-gold service
We are opening a new service allowing users to buy e-gold using their PayPal funds with fees lower than 10% (from 8 to 10% depending the amount transfered). For more informations, please write to @netcourrier.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
We are opening a new service allowing users to buy e-gold using their PayPal funds with fees lower than 10% (from 8 to 10% depending the amount transfered). For more informations, please write to @netcourrier.com Unless something's changed, this will be the course of events: 1) Within a few weeks you'll be making thousands of dollars a day. 2) Then, on a Monday, with 4 days of sales in your PayPal account, (maybe as much as $20,000), PayPal will lock your account and hold your money for 6 months to a year. 3) Afterwhich they may, or may not, give you back some of it. SnowDog --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Cash Cards New Gold Cards
Hi Gabriel, The approval process for the new Gold Cards has taken longer than we expected. The good news is that we have now have been fully approved and the cards are at our production facility. We expect to have delivery of the new Gold Cards in the next few days. Then we will immediately get them out to all our Members. If you have an existing Cash Card which is less than one year old, we will ship you a new Gold Card at no charge. Thanks for your patience in the transition to the new Gold Cards. Yours in Success, Steve Renner, Managing Director Cash Cards International, Ltd. Basseterre, St Kitts - West Indies US Offices: 250 Second Ave S Suite # 145 Minneapolis, MN 55401 PH: (612) 332-6025 FX: (612) 332-6032 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Subject: CashCards rips people off again. Gold Cards never came. From: Sweet P [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:20:39 -0400 X-Message-Number: 6 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
And that is then when you have no risk, the guy who borrowed carries the complete risk of failure and still would have to pay you anyway. And that is unfair. While you should get something for investing in him, the amount he owes you should be fixed there and then. Indeed, if you invest a gold piece into his life against a dime a month, you would be owed a dime a month for as long as the venture exists - but would never get the coin back - AND can't take anything else off him. In order to avoid all those hassles, you might just want to invest into the local property union or finance bank, participate in the profits and your friend gets his investment from them. Given that he already has a house, he might actually sell the house for a gold coin and contract to buy it back for a coin and pay a dime rent for the month. That is actually in simplified terms how it is really being done. This is why you will find in most Islamic countries that title deeds in a property purchase are changed very late. After up to three months the application for a change is submitted - or a temporary change in ownership is entered. A mortgage if you will. Now, the reason for the exercise is actually two-fold. It should be hard for people to obtain funding in which they themselves carry the risk and it should be even harder to disown anyone. The ancient precedessor of the cooling off period of an agreement, so to say. The system is meant to discourage accepting third party funds for whimsical purposes, while still facilitating trade and profiting from commercial activities. It is meant to make the idea of being debt unthinkable. If that would mean that there are less McDonald's outlets and less people buying tanks, SUVs, airplane tickets, etc. then so be it. After all, this would only be for a brief while. Once the initial shock has passed people will realize that due to not paying off this and that they suddenly have more cash left every month. Consider this: The US populace pays $62 billion of interest on credit card debts per year! This is interest only, does not include compounding interest, nor indeed does it include installments. About half of the credit card debts are for consumables (restaurants, holidays, groceries, etc.) So, no lasting value has been created or changed ownership. What is worse, is that through compounding interest and high fees the original price of the combined items three years ago would have been less than half of what is being paid in interest now. Imagine, if people were not able to use credit for consumables. Imagine that cards would have to be balanced by the end of each month. Even better, imagine all cards became debits cards and people would spend money they have. That's an additional $62,000,000,000 in availavle cash to the US economy every year. So, while at one time there would have been less money spent (less card purchases), there would be overall much more liquidity. The problem is, everybody gets easy credit because banks want to profit at any expense. People who could never qualify for a mortgage or a loan to start a business are carrying 5 credit cards... Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] We sell E-Gold at 1.5%
Hello, Just wanted to tell that our company Gold-cash.biz sells E-Gold at 1.5%. Please email me if you have any further questions. Best Regards, Julie Donska Customer Support Gold-cash.biz: Digital Exchange. The safe way. Web: http://www.gold-cash.biz Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hushmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 271396462 --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] I give you e-gold at 0% fee
Hi, I have some e-gold need to cash out. If you want fund your e-gold, we can trade with 0% fee. I accept bankwire and western union. I will send you e-ogld with the same value I received from you via bankwire/wester union (you must pay wire and WU fee). If you are interested, please contact me Regards v2Gold Ltd. = Professional and high quality e-gold scripts. http://www.v2gold.com __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Islamic banking, was: Re: Debt and interest ...
Hi Robert, As you have pointed out, once non-Muslims see the advantages they will adopt Islamic banking too! However I do not care to demand a law against charging interest. Having an alternative is enough! Regards, Ian Green From: Robert B.Z. Sent: Thursday, 9 October 2003 5:18 PM To: e-gold Discussion Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: Debt and interest (was Re: The impressive progress of the Caliphate) [Referring to Malysia] The new, Islamic banks went from strength to strength and once people realized that you don't have to be a devout Muslim, or indeed a Muslim at all to use the alternative many switched banks, prompting the traditional institutes to compete. Currently both systems coexist in Malaysia. [Thinking about America] somesuch. By calling it 'Islamic Banking' it can be masked as a religious practice and hence the establishment can't do much against it. However, non-Muslims would then shun the new ventures because of the name. --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: What is the best symbol/abbreviation for the gold dinar?
Ð Alt+0240#240; ð Alt+0208#208; Ahh! Typing in Outlook XP, blasted autocorrect capitalised the Alt+0240 ð to Alt+0208 Ð and I had to quickly hit Ctrl-Z to undo the autocorrection. Still, there they are above, if it can possibly catch on, but who knows what they look like in a whole bunch of other character sets. Unicode? Well that's another question. (Still haven't got myself a Mac yet!) In an ordinary (10-12pt) sized font the lowercase character is pretty hard to distinguish, but at least it looks nothing like any other currency symbol. I cannot fathom how Japanese and Chinese people can distinguish all of the fine detail in their writing. It should be a breeze for them. I had to bump it up to 14pt to really appreciate what it looks like. Regards, Ian Green --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
I would disagree with this. They will make $20,000 in transactions of which they will glean about 5% of, and then realize that they are being attacked by scammers who are one by one. reversing their paypal spends and claiming someone stole their accounts. Good luck to you. I hope you have some magic way to avoid all this. Gordon www.katzglobal.com Anonymous Hosting(tm) Solutions --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 04:00 PM, Katz Global Media wrote: I would disagree with this. They will make $20,000 in transactions of which they will glean about 5% of, and then realize that they are being attacked by scammers who are one by one. reversing their paypal spends and claiming someone stole their accounts. Good luck to you. I hope you have some magic way to avoid all this. Paypal is warped, sick, stuff. I had a dormant zero account and someone sent me some money from a fake email address which made me think it was a tip. I accepted the payment. Big mistake. The guy sending the money was a total fraud, the payment was reversed, Paypal charged ME a reversal fee, and now I have a negative balance and Paypal wants to me to send them funds to bring the balance back up to zero. No big deal, it's just a few bucks, but what a twisted, evil, demented, vomitous system it is. -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
On Thursday, October 9, 2003, at 02:47 PM, Danny Van den Berghe wrote: Rather unnecessarily complicated constructions are being made to avoid the word 'interest'... What we call 'interest' in the West will be given other names like 'rent' Person 1 pays rent for the use of a house over a certain period and returns the house to its owner at the end. Person 2 pays 'rent' for the use of an amount of money over a certain period and returns the money to its owner at the end. Any difference? The difference is that Person 2 gets his hide caned with a sheaf of tightly wound bamboo strips. Any questions? -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: FreeCashCards - bad experience. How can netpay.tv advertise them? How can this work ?
I just wasted my money on FreeCashCards (www.freecashcards.com) card, that ok, it costs only $17 plus shipping, but it is useless. Load times are 3-5 days, sometimes more. they have no customer service. They sell a GlobalOneCard, and it needs to be activated. If you has received a map, consider itself lucky man. Many even it have not received. freecashcards.com, cashcards.com, vupay.com, what service will be the following? -- Domain registrations 8.00 e-gold (.com .net .org .us .biz .info) http://www.yourwebpoint.com/ Cheap phone cards with e-gold http://www.lehed.com/e-gold.php E-gold Game Directory http://www.money-gold.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Does Steve Renner Pay?
About a week ago, I requested a transfer from VCash to my e-gold a/c. Does anyone know: (a) Does Steve Renner actually honor such transfers? (b) If yes, how long does it usually take? (c) What can be done to persuade Steve to pay? Frederick Mann --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: The Myth of Insufficient Gold
Danny wrote: And if your venture capital system is available as well, then I have all possible choices, just in case I doesn't want to carry all the risk. Exactly, if both options exist, it is likely that the VC option would over time largely replace the commercial banking option in all fields practicable, ie. there are likely to still be short-term loans of over a month and under two years. Trouble is, currently only one option exists in most countries and although I don't owe anyone anything (other than gratitude, respect, support, etc.) I still feel that I have to pay for the irresponsible spending habits of others with high fees, etc. Now, can I lend anyone money at 3% per month?:o) Patrick, there is no caning for ursupery unless you cause bodily harm to your debtors. Instead there is confiscation of what are deemed unjust profits. So, essentially they won't even touch your property and you get to keep your wealth. Only the interest revenues are forfeited. The main item that Danny and you seem to ignore that in constructs involving rent, etc. the ownership doesn't change until the item is fully paid for and, possibly the most important item: There is nothing resembling compounding interest. The compounding interest is truly something for nothing. Even our loan sharking side line, oops, i meant to say Microloan programme, doesn't go that far to charge compounding interest. Instead we buy diary cows, sell them at a profit two years later and give them to their future owner for safe keeping in the meantime ;o) Of course, in the meantime the safe keeper and future owner gets to milk the beast but we still carry the risk that the four-legged wealth producing device dies before ownership changes. That's why we charge a service up front and the future owner is obliged to buy the carcass from us. The two fees make up half the price of the cow, hence we share half the risk. And double our money every 2 1/2 years if the cow survives and the safe keeper pays up. We invest in low cost housing as well ;o) What shall I say? It works like a charm, everybody loves it, and all parties profit. By the way, most of our clients would never qualify for a loan. Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: Islamic banking, was: Re: Debt and interest ...
I know. I'm too bloody nice and caring ;o) Must be my heritage. The reason I'd like to outlaw interest is simply to give everyone the chance to start with a clean slate again, rather than having kids pay for their parents' follies in decades to come. Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
I actually agree with all three. First you will get a few deposits, then you will get your account restricted - notably whenever you are trying to make the first withdrawal. After disclosing everything there is to know about your life so far, they will claim not to have received anything and will demand the you send it again. Three weeks later (all the while people keep depositing into your account and posting here that you must be a crook because you didn't give them their e-gold), PayPal will unfreeze your account long enough to reverse some charges from several weeks earlier. You will file a complaint, which they will ignore while freezing your account again, but szll accepting funds being deposited. You think about joining some militants in your rage as you find out that PayPal has now reversed a few more charges - WITHOUT - actually returning the funds to the sender. Just as you think it couldn't get any worse, your bank or credit card company informs you that PayPal emptied your account to cover reversal fees for the money they stole. After you have clients mail PayPal and demand an explanation why they reversed a charge for no reason and where the heck the money went, you may or may not find 'some' of it credited to your account, which of course remains frozen. After that, as Gordon suggested, it will take about 180 days for them to ask you where to send a cheque to. Trouble is, in those 180 days they changed their TOS and for you to receive that cheque, you need to first agree to the new TOS which include that basically you won't get a cent. So, the best of luck if you are seriously planning to go through with this. And, you are welcome to quote me! Cheers, Robert. budget privacy website hosting http://www.cyberica.net e-commerce e-business services http://www.cyfrocash.net budget domain registrations http://www.u2planet.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: paypal to e-gold service
We were doing that for a while as you know. Paypal never closed our account on us thankfully, but we did and still do get reversals all the damn time. This stems mostly from the users of Paypal who steal other peoples accounts. Gordon --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
