[e-gold-list] RE: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings
--- begin forwarded text From: Brad Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'Vincent Cate'" [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Brad Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], e$@vmeng.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:45:14 -0500 Vince, Thank you for including me in your response. Making no attempt to mediate your dispute, I tried to help a friend who wanted more information so I forwarded it to others I thought might be able to help (apparently, we run in the same circles). While my approach is from the public policy side, I suspect we are all fighting for the same thing: stopping the government from violating our rights and giving individuals more choices. Regards, Bradley -Original Message- From: Vincent Cate [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 12:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; e$@vmeng.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings Sean, the work you did was for Secure Accounts Ltd. On ever piece of code you wrote you put "Copyright Secure Accounts Ltd." (as did other programmers). From the start the idea was to publish the source when the product was launched. This did not mean releasing all rights to our work. We intended to make it free for small users but to make banks/stock-exchanges and other big users pay. Your claim that I agreed to open source the patent so you signed over the rights to me is a lie. The rights belonged to Secure Accounts Ltd all along. I bought out your shares in Secure Accounts Ltd for the price you asked for. I never "originally agreed" to this. In the last month you tried to talk me into it and I decided not to. If you are out to harm my company, I don't want you to have free accounts on my machines any more (Linux security as poor as it is and all) so I am closing the accounts you have with me. Please fill out the form at http://nic.ai/ and send it in to let me know what nameservers you want for your domains (like hastings.ai). Most people in Anguilla seem to use pair.com to host domains as they are good and low priced. -- Vince Original Message Subject: FW: Preventing a bad Patent Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:18:16 + From: "R. A. Hettinga" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Digital Bearer Settlement List [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED], e$@vmeng.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- begin forwarded text From: Brad Jansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FW: Preventing a bad Patent Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:31:24 -0500 Sean is a friend and fellow traveller down the freedom path. If you could offer any advice, suggestions or referrals, it would be most appreciated. (he is affliated with HavenCo and Sealand, on the front lines protecting our privacy rights!). Thanks. -Original Message- From: Sean Hastings [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 12:27 PM To: Bradley Jenson Subject: Preventing a bad Patent Bradley, I am asking your advice in this matter, as you are more connected to government stuff than anyone else I know. I did some design work on electronic monetary systems when I was living in Anguilla several years ago. My Partner Vince Cate is currently trying to patent the work we did. Originally he agreed that if he received this patent he would open source it for all to use freely, so I signed the rights over to him. I didn't have any time to do anything with it anyway. Now it looks as if he actually intends to license the patent for a fee if he gets it, and this will have harmful effects on open source eCurrency systems already in existence (of course I did not get his promise not to do this in writing). I do not want to see another case like the RSA patent, or the digicash blinding patent, both of which have chilled the development of an online free markets for years. I also don't think the work is particularly patantable, but I would rather not risk it if there is something I can do. Do you know how I can prevent a patent from being awarded to him? Do you know anyone who would be able to help me in this matter? --Sean Hastings --mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --http://sean.hastings.ai --vmsg/fax:1.800.why.sean --- end forwarded text -- - R. A. Hettinga mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation http://www.ibuc.com/ 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity, [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable
[e-gold-list] RE: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings
--- begin forwarded text Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:22:56 -0400 To: "Sean Hastings" [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Vincent Cate [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], e$@vmeng.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] x-flowed Sean, If it was my intention to release all rights to the patent and source code, why would I spend so much money on getting a patent? That would not make any sense. License it to many people yes, but not for free. You can host domains for $1/month on pair.com. So you are now telling people that you signed over the patent to save a couple bucks per month? If that were the deal you voided it when you tried to attack the patent. I don't like you sending emails asking people how to hurt my company while getting free services from my company (one of which was the very address you used on the email).I think it is hypocritical to be using my services for free and attacking me. It is like biting the hand that feeds you. Go get an account on pair.com and leave me alone. -- Vince At 01:43 PM 3/26/01 -0800, Sean Hastings wrote: Vince, When I originally protested your patenting my design for SAXAS, It is my recollection that you told me two things: 1.) That it was always your intention to freely license the patent anyway. 2.) That if I didn't sign the paperwork, you would take away my accounts at offshore.ai that you had previously said I could have for as long as I wanted "Like an alumni". Abandoning your previous promise, you said that only if I signed the patent application could I then have these accounts as long as I liked, otherwise I would have to start paying for them. The copyright on the source code is entirely unrelated to the patent issue, although it is also my recollection that our original intention was to open source SAXAS code. I certainly recall telling John Gilmore (and several others) as much at FC98. I also remember numerous discussions with you about how closed source was wrong, that open source was the way to go to achieve wide acceptance and use, how horrible the situation created by the RSA and digicash blinding patents was, and how we would never do anything like that. Over the past month I have simply been trying to convince you to do the right thing, and not attempt to use the force of the US government to stifle information flow by licensing software patents. Since I was unable to convince you to keep your word, I am now trying to make sure that no such patent is awarded to you. It does not surprise me that you are again playing the "I can cancel your email account" card - despite now two previous promises that I could continue to use those accounts for free for as long as I wanted. It is now my standard expectation that you will always act contrary to your stated ideals and previous promises, when you feel it might be to your benefit. You are a hypocrite, but you probably shouldn't feel too bad about that - most people are. Its just a shame that I believed your line of bullshit and trusted you for so long. If you think that you are not a complete hypocrite, please explain to myself and all these other people you have invited into this discussion, how patenting a method of exchanging account information online fits with your self proclaimed wish to free online financial transactions from governmental control by force? --Sean -Original Message- From: Vincent Cate [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 12:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; e$@vmeng.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings Sean, the work you did was for Secure Accounts Ltd. On ever piece of code you wrote you put "Copyright Secure Accounts Ltd." (as did other programmers). From the start the idea was to publish the source when the product was launched. This did not mean releasing all rights to our work. We intended to make it free for small users but to make banks/stock-exchanges and other big users pay. Your claim that I agreed to open source the patent so you signed over the rights to me is a lie. The rights belonged to Secure Accounts Ltd all along. I bought out your shares in Secure Accounts Ltd for the price you asked for. I never "originally agreed" to this. In the last month you tried to talk me into it and I decided not to. If you are out to harm my company, I don't want you to have free accounts on my machines any more (Linux security as poor as it is and all) so I am closing the accounts you have with me. Please fill out the form at http://nic.ai/ and send it in to let me know what nameservers you want for your domains (like
[e-gold-list] RE: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings
--- begin forwarded text From: "Sean Hastings" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Vincent Cate" [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Sean Hastings" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], e$@vmeng.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:11:24 -0800 Vince, A threat to cancel my email address at a time when I was broke, looking for work, and had resumes out using that address was a very real threat. If you want to break that deal of my signature in exchange for lifetime use of my offshore.ai accounts (Which in itself was predicated on your breaking a previous promise), fine. Consider that deal broken by mutual agreement, and please destroy all copies of the document that I signed, and recall any actions legal actions based on that document. As for why you would attempt to obtain a patent at great cost to not license it. It seems that some people do it. It is what you said you were going to do. And I had no idea what the costs involved are at the time when I believed you when you said you would do the right thing. One explanation is that obtaining the patent is good proof that your company originated the idea, and openly licensing it would require all users to note that the protocol was invented at Secure Accounts. This allows the method to become an open protocol and an international standard, while spreading the fame of your company far and wide, thus making your company the ideal choice for doing support and integration work for large businesses seeking to implement the protocol. This was certainly the sort of path to fame and fortune which we had always previously discussed. I duly note your lack of answer to my query for explanation of the discrepancy between your publicly stated ideals and your current actions. Your intention to promote yourself as a crypto-anarchist, while at the same time doing great harm to the cause, would also seem like "Biting the hand that feeds you". --Sean -Original Message- From: Vincent Cate [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 2:23 PM To: Sean Hastings Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; e$@vmeng.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Secure Accounts Ltd history and Sean Hastings Sean, If it was my intention to release all rights to the patent and source code, why would I spend so much money on getting a patent? That would not make any sense. License it to many people yes, but not for free. You can host domains for $1/month on pair.com. So you are now telling people that you signed over the patent to save a couple bucks per month? If that were the deal you voided it when you tried to attack the patent. I don't like you sending emails asking people how to hurt my company while getting free services from my company (one of which was the very address you used on the email).I think it is hypocritical to be using my services for free and attacking me. It is like biting the hand that feeds you. Go get an account on pair.com and leave me alone. -- Vince At 01:43 PM 3/26/01 -0800, Sean Hastings wrote: Vince, When I originally protested your patenting my design for SAXAS, It is my recollection that you told me two things: 1.) That it was always your intention to freely license the patent anyway. 2.) That if I didn't sign the paperwork, you would take away my accounts at offshore.ai that you had previously said I could have for as long as I wanted "Like an alumni". Abandoning your previous promise, you said that only if I signed the patent application could I then have these accounts as long as I liked, otherwise I would have to start paying for them. The copyright on the source code is entirely unrelated to the patent issue, although it is also my recollection that our original intention was to open source SAXAS code. I certainly recall telling John Gilmore (and several others) as much at FC98. I also remember numerous discussions with you about how closed source was wrong, that open source was the way to go to achieve wide acceptance and use, how horrible the situation created by the RSA and digicash blinding patents was, and how we would never do anything like that. Over the past month I have simply been trying to convince you to do the right thing, and not attempt to use the force of the US government to stifle information flow by licensing software patents. Since I was unable to convince you to keep your word, I am now trying to make sure that no such patent is awarded to you. It does not surprise me that you are again playing the "I can cancel your email account" card - despite now two previous promises that I could continue to use those accounts for free for as long as I wanted. It is now my standard
