[e-gold-list] Re: [dgc.chat] EVOcash as an ecurrency
Jim shalom, Maybe we should, but we have to be convinced that these are redeemable in precious metals before we do. And we're not convinced. That's not the (only) thing you look at. Since Standard Reserve and OsGold are (were (in the case of Standard Reserve)?) e-metal currencies and you decide not to work with them. I think that what guides you is not the redeemable option but the trust to be able to redeem the currency at the time you wish to do that. (I could better explain this in Hebrew.. -:)). In the cases of E-Gold and GoldMoney you have the trust. Other currencies need to build their trust with you. All the best, Arik Schenkler - CEO Use Internet Dollar electronic money for anonymity, finalization of deal and fee free funds movements from peer to peer - http://InternetDollar.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: [dgc.chat] EVOcash as an ecurrency
That's not the (only) thing you look at. Since Standard Reserve and OsGold are (were (in the case of Standard Reserve)?) e-metal currencies and you decide not to work with them. Has anyone EVER redeemed any gold from OSGold? Craig --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: [dgc.chat] EVOcash as an ecurrency
From: Arik Schenkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think that what guides you is not the redeemable option but the trust to be able to redeem the currency at the time you wish to do that. (I could better explain this in Hebrew.. -:)). Ari: This kind of difficulty is why I like to insist on a simple, firm definition of solvency. Here I define it in terms of internet gold: Definition: An Internet Gold System is solvent if it has enough physical gold free and clear to satisfy a complete simultaneous bail-out of all internet gold in the system. Notice that I don't play games with probabilities here. If you maintain a fractional reserve system you can guarantee redemption with a certain probability, given some kind of Poisson distribution of redemption requests. I'm not playing that game. I'm talking about 100% certain, full redemption, even if all requests come at the same time. That way, all the gold has to be there at all times, sitting in a dark vault doing nothing but collecting dust. An Internet Gold Provider should be willing at all times to satisfy a complete and 100% run on the physical gold without turning anybody down. If this puts him out of business, then so be it. If he reneges on even one bail-out request, he is breaking his contract. The definition can be generalized to monetary systems that do not use physical gold as the immediately underlying asset: Definition: A monetary system is solvent if it has enough of the underlying asset free and clear to satisfy a complete simultaneous bail-out of all the the underlying asset in the system. In the case of Internet Dollar, the underlying asset is US dollars. In the case of 1mdc, the underlying asset is e-gold grams. In the case of e-gold or GoldMoney, the underlying asset is physical gold bars. (No need to quibble over the term asset. I merely mean the underlying thing that the customers of the monetary system view as valuable to them. If the customers are dung beetles, then the underlying asset can be dung. If dung can be an asset, then so can Federal Reserve Notes. :-) So Ari, I don't like your distinction between having a redeemable option and being able to redeem the currency at the time you wish to do that. If it can't be explained in plain English (or Hebrew) I want nothing to do with it. You can either redeem it or you can't. If you're talking about probabilities, you're talking about a fractional reserve system. That's fine as long as you just be honest and call it a fractional reserve system. If you have a fully solvent monetary system, the probability of being able to redeem the underlying asset is essentially 100%, or as close to that as you can achieve on this earth. Regards, Patrick Chkoreff --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: [dgc.chat] EVOcash as an ecurrency
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] An interesting thing Patrick ... ... An inevitable development was a clause that you could get your gold immediately, *OR*, at the issuer's option, they could take - let's say - three months or 6 months to pay you your gold, with a interest payment added. I am definitely going to read the Ewart _Money_ book. You have given an excellent example of a well-specified redemption clause. A general use of solvent would probably be able to meet its redemption criteria. In the case of egold, goldmoney etc, Chkoreff Solvent is what is meant. In the case of hugh quality fractional reserve currencies, solvent would just mean able to meet whatever it's exact redemption clause is. Exactly! I think you've generalized it well. It really does boil down to the specification of the redemption criteria and the honoring of that contract. That contract can be anything upon which two people can agree. If you agree that you can redeem only with certain restrictions, then so be it. I guess what I'm looking for is something that conveys what most people call 100% backing, without using the ill-defined notion of backing. Generally we all consider GoldMoney, e-gold, and e-bullion to be backed 100% by the underlying physical asset, but people will argue over the term backed and I want to avoid that. Basically what I am talking about is a contractual stipulation that the Internet Gold Provider keeps all the gold in a dark vault doing nothing but collect dust. :-) If an IGP can lease out gold or borrow it for other expenses, that's fine if the customer agrees to it. Other IGPs will decide NOT to do this, and this gives them a distinct status. I'm looking for ways to recognize, discuss, and verify that status which many people call 100% backing. I think I'm talking about a contractual agreement where the IGP pledges to maintain a 100% dust-collecting asset base at all times. If the IGP does this, then it should have no problem satisfying any and all redemption requests, subject to ordinary logistical considerations. Perhaps there are quasi-derivative assets even in something like e-gold. A few days ago, JP suggested perhaps in jest that the e-bullion statement on Standard Transactions might be casting aspersions on the e-gold MDOs in Switzerland. I'm not really familiar with MDOs, but I imagine e-gold would have no problem getting prompt delivery on those bars if they needed them to satisfy a redemption. I'm thinking that GoldMoney, e-gold, and e-bullion share a property that distinguishes them from OSgold, Standard Transactions, etc, and it seems like that property is the contractual maintenance of a 100% dust-collecting asset base at all times subject to redemption upon demand qualified only by ordinary logistical considerations. This property is kind of like Chkoreff Solvency, but I want to talk about what condition actually exists right now rather than some unachievable or unrealistic ideal. I guess this would get into some serious legal language, but I'm sure it could be explained in operational terms (obligations, procedures, remedies, etc.). That would enable one to say that GoldMoney, e-gold, and e-bullion are this kind of IG, while those other things are that kind of IG, and say it without jargon and ambiguous terminology. I really think it's something like the contractual maintenance of a 100% dust-collecting asset base at all times subject to redemption upon demand qualified only by ordinary logistical considerations. But I'm a programmer, not a lawyer, Jim! :-) -- Patrick --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: [dgc.chat] EVOcash as an ecurrency
Patrick shalom, Definition: An Internet Gold System is solvent if it has enough physical gold free and clear to satisfy a complete simultaneous bail-out of all internet gold in the system. I agree with you. What I am saying is that it is your conception that a currency system is SOLVENT. If you believe that the currency system is and more important will be SOLVENT in the future when you need it to be SOLVENT - then you'll work with it. If you believe that a currency system is not SOLVENT or will not be SOLVENT - you will not work with it. What I am saying that you NEVER have a future audit. We cannot foresee the future. We can assume. We might be right or wrong. All the best, Arik Schenkler - CEO Use Internet Dollar electronic money for anonymity, finalization of deal and fee free funds movements from peer to peer - http://InternetDollar.com --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
[e-gold-list] Re: [dgc.chat] EVOcash as an ecurrency
-- From: Arik Schenkler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: e-gold Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: [dgc.chat] EVOcash as an ecurrency Date: Tue, Jun 18, 2002, 5:50 AM cut I think that what guides you is not the redeemable option but the trust to be able to redeem the currency at the time you wish to do that. (I could better explain this in Hebrew.. -:)). Not that you would, but you could. - John --- You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: archive@jab.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Use e-gold's Secure Randomized Keyboard (SRK) when accessing your e-gold account(s) via the web and shopping cart interfaces to help thwart keystroke loggers and common viruses.
