Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

[Susan Cousineau]

A couple more papers from Claire Kremen’s lab at UC Berkeley:

Ponisio, L. C., M ’gonigle, L. K., Mace, K. C., Palomino, J., De Valpine, P., & 
Kremen, C. (2015). Diversification practices reduce organic to conventional 
yield gap. Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences, 
282(20141396), 1–7. http://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2014.1396

Kremen, C., Iles, A., & Bacon, C. (2012). Diversified farming systems: An 
agroecological, systems-based alternative to modern industrial agriculture. 
Ecology and Society, 17(4). http://doi.org/10.5751/ES-05103-170444


M.Sc. Evolution 2012 (France/Netherlands)

BSc. Ecology Hon 1st, U Calgary, Canada (2010)



“The master in the art of living makes little distinction between his work and 
his play, his labor and his leisure, his mind and his body, his information and 
his recreation, his life and his religion.  He hardly knows which is which.  He 
simply pursues his vision of excellence at whatever he does, leaving others to 
decide whether he is working or playing.  To him, he’s always doing both.”
 - - - 
J. Michener

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 5:51 PM, Hossein Azadi  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Here are some more:
> 1) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0734975009001876 
> <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0734975009001876>
> 2) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800915306212 
> <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800915306212>
> 3) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167880911002805 
> <http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167880911002805>
> 
> Best,
> Hossein 
>> On Mar 22, 2017, at 01:49, Benjamin R. Runkle > <mailto:brrun...@uark.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Jane and all
>> I can absolutely recommend this recent article:
>> http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/3/e1602638.full 
>> <http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/3/e1602638.full>
>> Many shades of gray—The context-dependent performance of organic agriculture
>>  
>> Verena Seufert and Navin Ramankutty
>>  
>> Science Advances  10 Mar 2017:
>> Vol. 3, no. 3, e1602638
>> DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.1602638
>>  
>> It provides an extensive bibliography, a nice sense of nuance, and 
>> intriguing graphics. There is no “one answer” to this question.
>>  
>> Best regards,
>> Ben Runkle
>>  
>>  
>> Benjamin R. K. Runkle
>> Assistant Professor, Department of Biological and Agricultural Engineering
>> The University of Arkansas, Fayetteville AR 72701
>> ENGR 231
>> Phone: 479-575-2878
>> brrun...@uark.edu <mailto:brrun...@uark.edu>
>> https://you.uark.edu/brrunkle/ <https://you.uark.edu/brrunkle/>
>> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=SeZEXyoJ&hl=en 
>> <http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=SeZEXyoJ&hl=en>
>> https://twitter.com/DrBenRunkle 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_DrBenRunkle&d=CwMFAg&c=JL-fUnQvtjNLb7dA39cQUcqmjBVITE8MbOdX7Lx6ge8&r=mLagWrt9obodEdrkVDEHtIn8Lfbp-SCxPEAY4CqMIZY&m=wkkgLXWoRE4F1psuSC05Xa9xiinvpHwBVxiRTtFwMdk&s=Ijr-MjTYJOWPQmJsD8ZD4yHkVrlD2FApchLU4K-lMGA&e=>
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
>> [mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU <mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>] On 
>> Behalf Of Sihi, Debjani
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:37 PM
>> To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU <mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
>> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture
>>  
>> Hi 
>> ​
>> Phil,
>>  
>> Following two articles conducted meta-analysis to compare organic and 
>> conventional systems for different crops in terms of yield:
>>  
>> 1. Seufert, V., Ramankutty, N. and Foley, J.A., 2012. Comparing the yields 
>> of organic and conventional agriculture. Nature, 485(7397), pp.229-232.
>>  
>> 2. De Ponti, T., Rijk, B. and Van Ittersum, M.K., 2012. The crop yield gap 
>> between organic and conventional agriculture. Agricultural Systems, 108, 
>>  pp.1-9.
>>  
>> Thanks
>> Debjani 
>>  
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Ganter, Philip > <mailto:pgan...@tnstate.edu>> wrote:
>> Jane,
>> Just a note from someone who teaches an environmental science course.  
>> First, which skeptical communities have you in mind?  Are they susceptible 
>> to data?
>> If I remember correctly, the Rodale Institute (2006, a bit dated) published 
>> data from a long-term study of corn yields comparing organic (not till an

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

[Megan O'Rourke]

It is also useful to remember that far fewer resources have been spent on 
organic research/agroecology/ecological agriculture than conventional 
agricultural research.  Therefore, I don’t think we have a clear picture of the 
potential of non-conventional agriculture.  

 

This citation describes how research dollars have been allocated for 
agricultural research.  A very small amount goes to non-conventional.

 

DeLonge, Marcia S., Albie Miles, and Liz Carlisle. "Investing in the transition 
to sustainable agriculture." Environmental Science & Policy 55 (2016): 266-273.

 

Best,

Megan 

 

Megan O’Rourke

Assistant Professor

Agroecology & Sustainable Food Systems

Dept. Horticulture

Virginia Tech

 

 

From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Juan Alvez
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 6:41 AM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

 

Just a clarification, ecological agriculture differs from agroecology. 

 

Juan Alvez

 

On Mar 21, 2017 9:57 PM, Carola Haas mailto:cah...@vt.edu> > 
wrote:

Jane, if you consider ecological agriculture (which may or may not include 
organic, depending on how it’s done, but typically organic would be considered 
part of eco-ag practices), a great review and reference is De Schutter, O. 
(2010). Agroecology and the right to food. Interim report of the UN Special 
Rapporteur on the right to food submitted to the 65th session of the United 
Nations General Assembly, 11. 

 

I can’t remember if ECOLOG-L allows hyperlinks. I think it strips them, but if 
you do a Google Scholar search on what I pasted above you can get to a freely 
available copy on foodsecure canada’s website as well as other locations.  And 
I will email Jane the link directly.

 

Carola A. Haas
Professor, Wildlife Ecology
Dept. of Fish & Wildlife Conservation
112 Cheatham Hall (MC 0321)
310 West Campus Drive, Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA 24061
cah...@vt.edu <mailto:cah...@vt.edu> 
540-231-9269
http://www.fishwild.vt.edu/faculty/haas.htm





 

On Mar 21, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Jane Shevtsov mailto:jane@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Lately, a lot of people in skeptical communities have been saying that not only 
does organic agriculture use more land than conventional, it's no better or 
even worse for the environment overall. What do those of you with expertise in 
agroecology think about this?


 

Jane


-- 

-
Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D.
Lecturer and DBER Fellow, UCLA
co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org <http://www.worldbeyondborders.org/> 

"Muad'Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. And 
the first lesson of all was the basic trust that he could learn. It's shocking 
to find how many people do not believe they can learn, and how many more 
believe learning to be difficult."  --Frank Herbert, Dune

 

 

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

[Juan Alvez]

Just a clarification, ecological agriculture differs from agroecology.

Juan Alvez

On Mar 21, 2017 9:57 PM, Carola Haas  wrote:
Jane, if you consider ecological agriculture (which may or may not include 
organic, depending on how it’s done, but typically organic would be considered 
part of eco-ag practices), a great review and reference is De Schutter, O. 
(2010). Agroecology and the right to food. Interim report of the UN Special 
Rapporteur on the right to food submitted to the 65th session of the United 
Nations General Assembly, 11.

I can’t remember if ECOLOG-L allows hyperlinks. I think it strips them, but if 
you do a Google Scholar search on what I pasted above you can get to a freely 
available copy on foodsecure canada’s website as well as other locations.  And 
I will email Jane the link directly.

Carola A. Haas
Professor, Wildlife Ecology
Dept. of Fish & Wildlife Conservation
112 Cheatham Hall (MC 0321)
310 West Campus Drive, Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA 24061
cah...@vt.edu
540-231-9269
http://www.fishwild.vt.edu/faculty/haas.htm





On Mar 21, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Jane Shevtsov 
mailto:jane@gmail.com>> wrote:

Lately, a lot of people in skeptical communities have been saying that not only 
does organic agriculture use more land than conventional, it's no better or 
even worse for the environment overall. What do those of you with expertise in 
agroecology think about this?

Jane

--
-
Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D.
Lecturer and DBER Fellow, UCLA
co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org

"Muad'Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. And 
the first lesson of all was the basic trust that he could learn. It's shocking 
to find how many people do not believe they can learn, and how many more 
believe learning to be difficult."  --Frank Herbert, Dune

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

[Hossein Azadi]

Hi,

Here are some more:
1) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0734975009001876
2) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800915306212
3) http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167880911002805

Best,
Hossein
On Mar 22, 2017, at 01:49, Benjamin R. Runkle 
mailto:brrun...@uark.edu>> wrote:

Hi Jane and all
I can absolutely recommend this recent article:
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/3/e1602638.full
Many shades of gray—The context-dependent performance of organic agriculture

Verena Seufert and Navin Ramankutty

Science Advances  10 Mar 2017:
Vol. 3, no. 3, e1602638
DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.1602638

It provides an extensive bibliography, a nice sense of nuance, and intriguing 
graphics. There is no “one answer” to this question.

Best regards,
Ben Runkle


Benjamin R. K. Runkle
Assistant Professor, Department of Biological and Agricultural Engineering
The University of Arkansas, Fayetteville AR 72701
ENGR 231
Phone: 479-575-2878
brrun...@uark.edu<mailto:brrun...@uark.edu>
https://you.uark.edu/brrunkle/
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=SeZEXyoJ&hl=en
https://twitter.com/DrBenRunkle<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_DrBenRunkle&d=CwMFAg&c=JL-fUnQvtjNLb7dA39cQUcqmjBVITE8MbOdX7Lx6ge8&r=mLagWrt9obodEdrkVDEHtIn8Lfbp-SCxPEAY4CqMIZY&m=wkkgLXWoRE4F1psuSC05Xa9xiinvpHwBVxiRTtFwMdk&s=Ijr-MjTYJOWPQmJsD8ZD4yHkVrlD2FApchLU4K-lMGA&e=>



From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Sihi, Debjani
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:37 PM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU<mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

Hi
​
Phil,

Following two articles conducted meta-analysis to compare organic and 
conventional systems for different crops in terms of yield:

1. Seufert, V., Ramankutty, N. and Foley, J.A., 2012. Comparing the yields of 
organic and conventional agriculture. Nature, 485(7397), pp.229-232.

2. De Ponti, T., Rijk, B. and Van Ittersum, M.K., 2012. The crop yield gap 
between organic and conventional agriculture. Agricultural Systems, 108,  
pp.1-9.

Thanks
Debjani

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Ganter, Philip 
mailto:pgan...@tnstate.edu>> wrote:
Jane,
Just a note from someone who teaches an environmental science course.
First, which skeptical communities have you in mind?  Are they susceptible to 
data?
If I remember correctly, the Rodale Institute (2006, a bit dated) published 
data from a long-term study of corn yields comparing organic (not till and 
tilled) to conventional methods and to the Pennsylvania average (Rodale is in 
PA) and found that organic yield was higher, so it is not clear that you first 
assertion is true for all crops.  I am not aware of a review of conventional vs 
organic yields for lots of crops but I suspect one or several exist and, if you 
or someone else can give us the references, I would appreciate it.
The second part would need some specifics.  What sort of harm to the 
environment do you have in mind?  Certainly, organic methods look better for 
the environment than the ~325 million pounds of excess glyphosate spread across 
American fields in the years from 1996 until 2009 due to overuse of Roundup 
Ready crops (Union of Concerned Science report).  At first pass, I am having 
trouble imagining types of environmental damage organic farming makes worse but 
I might be missing the obvious, so could you be more specific.
One comment as well:  BASF had made the claim that their Haber-Bosch process 
made it possible for the Earth’s population to grow beyond 4 billion.  If their 
claim is valid in any sense, what is the most probable long-term outcome from 
agricultural  policy that always sets increased yield as its goal?

​​
Phil Ganter
Biological Sciences
Tennessee State University

From: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 
mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>> on behalf of Jane 
Shevtsov mailto:jane@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: Jane Shevtsov mailto:jane@gmail.com>>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 12:39 PM
To: "ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU<mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>" 
mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>>
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

Lately, a lot of people in skeptical communities have been saying that not only 
does organic agriculture use more land than conventional, it's no better or 
even worse for the environment overall. What do those of you with expertise in 
agroecology think about this?

Jane

--
-
Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D.
Lecturer and DBER Fellow, UCLA
co-founder, 
www.worldbeyondborders.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.worldbeyondborders.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=7ypwAowFJ8v-mw8AB-SdSueVQgSDL4HiiSaLK01W8HA&r=AM0kbK16R6vqYiyjgA8m7wjD-gokxkUPdMELt7ER64c&m=pZ3fJUVZqCEVufFKD6qHsQaTBFFzVp1QVDpXwzTn_oM&s=p

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

[Carola Haas]

Jane, if you consider ecological agriculture (which may or may not include 
organic, depending on how it’s done, but typically organic would be considered 
part of eco-ag practices), a great review and reference is De Schutter, O. 
(2010). Agroecology and the right to food. Interim report of the UN Special 
Rapporteur on the right to food submitted to the 65th session of the United 
Nations General Assembly, 11.

I can’t remember if ECOLOG-L allows hyperlinks. I think it strips them, but if 
you do a Google Scholar search on what I pasted above you can get to a freely 
available copy on foodsecure canada’s website as well as other locations.  And 
I will email Jane the link directly.

Carola A. Haas
Professor, Wildlife Ecology
Dept. of Fish & Wildlife Conservation
112 Cheatham Hall (MC 0321)
310 West Campus Drive, Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA 24061
cah...@vt.edu 
540-231-9269
http://www.fishwild.vt.edu/faculty/haas.htm





> On Mar 21, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Jane Shevtsov  > wrote:
> 
> Lately, a lot of people in skeptical communities have been saying that not 
> only does organic agriculture use more land than conventional, it's no better 
> or even worse for the environment overall. What do those of you with 
> expertise in agroecology think about this?
> 
> Jane
> 
> -- 
> -
> Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D.
> Lecturer and DBER Fellow, UCLA
> co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org 
> 
> "Muad'Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. And 
> the first lesson of all was the basic trust that he could learn. It's 
> shocking to find how many people do not believe they can learn, and how many 
> more believe learning to be difficult."  --Frank Herbert, Dune

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

[Benjamin R. Runkle]

Hi Jane and all
I can absolutely recommend this recent article:
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/3/e1602638.full
Many shades of gray—The context-dependent performance of organic agriculture

Verena Seufert and Navin Ramankutty

Science Advances  10 Mar 2017:
Vol. 3, no. 3, e1602638
DOI: 10.1126/sciadv.1602638

It provides an extensive bibliography, a nice sense of nuance, and intriguing 
graphics. There is no “one answer” to this question.

Best regards,
Ben Runkle


Benjamin R. K. Runkle
Assistant Professor, Department of Biological and Agricultural Engineering
The University of Arkansas, Fayetteville AR 72701
ENGR 231
Phone: 479-575-2878
brrun...@uark.edu<mailto:brrun...@uark.edu>
https://you.uark.edu/brrunkle/
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=SeZEXyoJ&hl=en
https://twitter.com/DrBenRunkle<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_DrBenRunkle&d=CwMFAg&c=JL-fUnQvtjNLb7dA39cQUcqmjBVITE8MbOdX7Lx6ge8&r=mLagWrt9obodEdrkVDEHtIn8Lfbp-SCxPEAY4CqMIZY&m=wkkgLXWoRE4F1psuSC05Xa9xiinvpHwBVxiRTtFwMdk&s=Ijr-MjTYJOWPQmJsD8ZD4yHkVrlD2FApchLU4K-lMGA&e=>



From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news 
[mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU] On Behalf Of Sihi, Debjani
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 3:37 PM
To: ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

Hi
​
Phil,

Following two articles conducted meta-analysis to compare organic and 
conventional systems for different crops in terms of yield:

1. Seufert, V., Ramankutty, N. and Foley, J.A., 2012. Comparing the yields of 
organic and conventional agriculture. Nature, 485(7397), pp.229-232.

2. De Ponti, T., Rijk, B. and Van Ittersum, M.K., 2012. The crop yield gap 
between organic and conventional agriculture. Agricultural Systems, 108,  
pp.1-9.

Thanks
Debjani

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Ganter, Philip 
mailto:pgan...@tnstate.edu>> wrote:
Jane,
Just a note from someone who teaches an environmental science course.
First, which skeptical communities have you in mind?  Are they susceptible to 
data?
If I remember correctly, the Rodale Institute (2006, a bit dated) published 
data from a long-term study of corn yields comparing organic (not till and 
tilled) to conventional methods and to the Pennsylvania average (Rodale is in 
PA) and found that organic yield was higher, so it is not clear that you first 
assertion is true for all crops.  I am not aware of a review of conventional vs 
organic yields for lots of crops but I suspect one or several exist and, if you 
or someone else can give us the references, I would appreciate it.
The second part would need some specifics.  What sort of harm to the 
environment do you have in mind?  Certainly, organic methods look better for 
the environment than the ~325 million pounds of excess glyphosate spread across 
American fields in the years from 1996 until 2009 due to overuse of Roundup 
Ready crops (Union of Concerned Science report).  At first pass, I am having 
trouble imagining types of environmental damage organic farming makes worse but 
I might be missing the obvious, so could you be more specific.
One comment as well:  BASF had made the claim that their Haber-Bosch process 
made it possible for the Earth’s population to grow beyond 4 billion.  If their 
claim is valid in any sense, what is the most probable long-term outcome from 
agricultural  policy that always sets increased yield as its goal?

​​
Phil Ganter
Biological Sciences
Tennessee State University

From: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 
mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>> on behalf of Jane 
Shevtsov mailto:jane@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: Jane Shevtsov mailto:jane@gmail.com>>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 12:39 PM
To: "ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU<mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>" 
mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>>
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

Lately, a lot of people in skeptical communities have been saying that not only 
does organic agriculture use more land than conventional, it's no better or 
even worse for the environment overall. What do those of you with expertise in 
agroecology think about this?

Jane

--
-
Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D.
Lecturer and DBER Fellow, UCLA
co-founder, 
www.worldbeyondborders.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.worldbeyondborders.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=7ypwAowFJ8v-mw8AB-SdSueVQgSDL4HiiSaLK01W8HA&r=AM0kbK16R6vqYiyjgA8m7wjD-gokxkUPdMELt7ER64c&m=pZ3fJUVZqCEVufFKD6qHsQaTBFFzVp1QVDpXwzTn_oM&s=pSPA8bAZetUMvnXp0aP8YmqOvvv810UrCjEqlJ0Q_tY&e=>

"Muad'Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. And 
the first lesson of all was the basic trust that he could learn. It's shocking 
to find how many people do not believe they can learn, and how many more 
believe learning to be difficult."  --Frank Herbert, Dune



--
Debjan

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

[Sihi, Debjani]

Hi
​
Phil,

Following two articles conducted meta-analysis to compare organic and
conventional systems for different crops in terms of yield:

1. Seufert, V., Ramankutty, N. and Foley, J.A., 2012. Comparing the yields
of organic and conventional agriculture. *Nature*, *485*(7397), pp.229-232.

2. De Ponti, T., Rijk, B. and Van Ittersum, M.K., 2012. The crop yield gap
between organic and conventional agriculture. *Agricultural Systems*, *108*,
 pp.1-9.

Thanks
Debjani

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Ganter, Philip  wrote:

> Jane,
> Just a note from someone who teaches an environmental science course.
> First, which skeptical communities have you in mind?  Are they susceptible
> to data?
> If I remember correctly, the Rodale Institute (2006, a bit dated)
> published data from a long-term study of corn yields comparing organic (not
> till and tilled) to conventional methods and to the Pennsylvania average
> (Rodale is in PA) and found that organic yield was higher, so it is not
> clear that you first assertion is true for all crops.  I am not aware of a
> review of conventional vs organic yields for lots of crops but I suspect
> one or several exist and, if you or someone else can give us the
> references, I would appreciate it.
> The second part would need some specifics.  What sort of harm to the
> environment do you have in mind?  Certainly, organic methods look better
> for the environment than the ~325 million pounds of excess glyphosate
> spread across American fields in the years from 1996 until 2009 due to
> overuse of Roundup Ready crops (Union of Concerned Science report).  At
> first pass, I am having trouble imagining types of environmental damage
> organic farming makes worse but I might be missing the obvious, so could
> you be more specific.
> One comment as well:  BASF had made the claim that their Haber-Bosch
> process made it possible for the Earth’s population to grow beyond 4
> billion.  If their claim is valid in any sense, what is the most probable
> long-term outcome from agricultural  policy that always sets increased
> yield as its goal?
>
> ​​
> Phil Ganter
> Biological Sciences
> Tennessee State University
>
> From: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" <
> ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU> on behalf of Jane Shevtsov 
> Reply-To: Jane Shevtsov 
> Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 12:39 PM
> To: "ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU" 
> Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture
>
> Lately, a lot of people in skeptical communities have been saying that not
> only does organic agriculture use more land than conventional, it's no
> better or even worse for the environment overall. What do those of you with
> expertise in agroecology think about this?
>
> Jane
>
> --
> -
> Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D.
> Lecturer and DBER Fellow, UCLA
> co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org
>
> "Muad'Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn.
> And the first lesson of all was the basic trust that he *could* learn.
> It's shocking to find how many people do not believe they can learn, and
> how many more believe learning to be difficult."  --Frank Herbert, *Dune*
>



-- 
Debjani Sihi
Post-Doctoral Investigator
University of Maryland Center for Environmental Science Appalachian
Laboratory
301 Braddock Road, Frostburg, MD 21532 USA
Office: 301-689-7125
Fax: 301-689-7200
Cell: 352-222-5655
​​
http://www.umces.edu/al/people/dsihi
http://research.al.umces.edu/~davidson/index.php/people/

Re: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

[Ganter, Philip]

Jane,
Just a note from someone who teaches an environmental science course.
First, which skeptical communities have you in mind?  Are they susceptible to 
data?
If I remember correctly, the Rodale Institute (2006, a bit dated) published 
data from a long-term study of corn yields comparing organic (not till and 
tilled) to conventional methods and to the Pennsylvania average (Rodale is in 
PA) and found that organic yield was higher, so it is not clear that you first 
assertion is true for all crops.  I am not aware of a review of conventional vs 
organic yields for lots of crops but I suspect one or several exist and, if you 
or someone else can give us the references, I would appreciate it.
The second part would need some specifics.  What sort of harm to the 
environment do you have in mind?  Certainly, organic methods look better for 
the environment than the ~325 million pounds of excess glyphosate spread across 
American fields in the years from 1996 until 2009 due to overuse of Roundup 
Ready crops (Union of Concerned Science report).  At first pass, I am having 
trouble imagining types of environmental damage organic farming makes worse but 
I might be missing the obvious, so could you be more specific.
One comment as well:  BASF had made the claim that their Haber-Bosch process 
made it possible for the Earth’s population to grow beyond 4 billion.  If their 
claim is valid in any sense, what is the most probable long-term outcome from 
agricultural  policy that always sets increased yield as its goal?

Phil Ganter
Biological Sciences
Tennessee State University

From: "Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news" 
mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>> on behalf of Jane 
Shevtsov mailto:jane@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: Jane Shevtsov mailto:jane@gmail.com>>
Date: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 12:39 PM
To: "ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU" 
mailto:ECOLOG-L@LISTSERV.UMD.EDU>>
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Organic Agriculture

Lately, a lot of people in skeptical communities have been saying that not only 
does organic agriculture use more land than conventional, it's no better or 
even worse for the environment overall. What do those of you with expertise in 
agroecology think about this?

Jane

--
-
Jane Shevtsov, Ph.D.
Lecturer and DBER Fellow, UCLA
co-founder, www.worldbeyondborders.org

"Muad'Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. And 
the first lesson of all was the basic trust that he could learn. It's shocking 
to find how many people do not believe they can learn, and how many more 
believe learning to be difficult."  --Frank Herbert, Dune