[Elecraft] 73cnc Knob for K3

[Stephen Merchant]

Knobs are sold, thanks.
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[Elecraft] FS: 73cnc Knobs for K3

[Stephen Merchant]

Main and sub knobs from 73cnc. These are the plain front models - no
stainless insert.  Very good condition, low mileage. $100 we split shipping.
smerchan(at)sonic(dot)net.

73, Steve K6AW
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[ab2tc]

Hi again,

If I could amplify that a bit further, no pun intended, if you can afford
the KPA500, you surely can afford the KPA3 option in the K3. And it is a
better driver option for the KPA500.

AB2TC - Knut


ab2tc wrote
> Hi,
> 
> Very good points indeed. I am not surprised at all that the KPA3 is much
> cleaner at 30W than the K3/10 is at 10W. At 25/30W it's loafing along
> close to its optimum IMD level and the "driver" (the KPA3/10) is loafing
> along at 3W or less. So let's face it, neither of these amplifiers are
> very linear at their rated full power levels. So please don't let KPA500
> users worsen their IMD levels by skimping on its driving source.
> 
> AB2TC - Knut 
> 





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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[ab2tc]

Hi,

Very good points indeed. I am not surprised at all that the KPA3 is much
cleaner at 30W than the K3/10 is at 10W. At 25/30W it's loafing along close
to its optimum IMD level and the "driver" (the KPA3/10) is loafing along at
3W or less. So let's face it, neither of these amplifiers are very linear at
their rated full power levels. So please don't let KPA500 users worsen their
IMD levels by skimping on its driving source.

AB2TC - Knut 


Matthew Cook wrote
> To make this idea work you need to make a 25Wpep amplifier that is kept in
> it's linear region so that the IMD from this amplifier does not cause
> problems in the output of the KPA500.
> 
> To make a class A-B 25W amplifier such as this with enough linearity will
> result in you designing an amplifier capable of 100Wpep at full smoke. 
> The
> non-linear nature of HF PA's is easily found on the net.  Having designed
> PA's for HF manpacks a number of years ago we simply turned down our
> 100Wpep design to 25Wpep and pocketed the performance increase at the
> expense of cost.
> 
> The K3/100 at 25-35W has excellent linearity (highly likely by design, pat
> designers on back for this one) which allows a more aggressive approach
> within the KPA500 for grunt at the expense of "some" linearity.   You're
> not increasing the cost of the KPA500 trying to eeek out every last bit of
> linearity to get around the rubbish coming from the transceiver.
> 
> I'm keen to do some measurements in the near future of the SPE 1.3k-fa
> amplifier being driven by a K3/10.  Having measured the IMD of my the
> K3/100 at 10W (KPA3 disabled) recently I was a little surprised at the
> result, it was not as clean as when driven at 30W with the KPA3 enabled.
> I'd not be surprised to see some output degradation in the SPE from the
> K3/10 c.f K3/100 driven at 20W with a -3dB inline attenuator.   This would
> certainly explain some of the "wide" local signals that I've been seeing
> in
> my SDR recently.
> 
> Engineering is always about compromise, and cascaded amplifiers are one of
> the more trickier things to strike the right balance with.
> 
> 73
> 
> Matthew
> VK5ZM
> 





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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[Cameron Francey]

Thumbs up here to this reply!

Also, if you have 25 watts max from the rig then you limit your ability to 
reduce to 100 watts or less where its more than enough.

Remembering that we use the least amount of power needed to maintain the 
contact.  Just because the gas peddle goes as far as the floor doesn't mean it 
needs to be pushed that far to get to the shops!


Best regards,

Cameron -AF7DK/GM7LQR



From: Elecraft  on behalf of Matthew Cook 

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 7:32 PM
To: Harry Yingst
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

To make this idea work you need to make a 25Wpep amplifier that is kept in
it's linear region so that the IMD from this amplifier does not cause
problems in the output of the KPA500.

To make a class A-B 25W amplifier such as this with enough linearity will
result in you designing an amplifier capable of 100Wpep at full smoke.  The
non-linear nature of HF PA's is easily found on the net.  Having designed
PA's for HF manpacks a number of years ago we simply turned down our
100Wpep design to 25Wpep and pocketed the performance increase at the
expense of cost.

The K3/100 at 25-35W has excellent linearity (highly likely by design, pat
designers on back for this one) which allows a more aggressive approach
within the KPA500 for grunt at the expense of "some" linearity.   You're
not increasing the cost of the KPA500 trying to eeek out every last bit of
linearity to get around the rubbish coming from the transceiver.

I'm keen to do some measurements in the near future of the SPE 1.3k-fa
amplifier being driven by a K3/10.  Having measured the IMD of my the
K3/100 at 10W (KPA3 disabled) recently I was a little surprised at the
result, it was not as clean as when driven at 30W with the KPA3 enabled.
I'd not be surprised to see some output degradation in the SPE from the
K3/10 c.f K3/100 driven at 20W with a -3dB inline attenuator.   This would
certainly explain some of the "wide" local signals that I've been seeing in
my SDR recently.

Engineering is always about compromise, and cascaded amplifiers are one of
the more trickier things to strike the right balance with.

73

Matthew
VK5ZM

On 23 February 2017 at 07:55, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

>
> Seeing how the KPA- 500 tends to need less than 25 watts to drive it to
> full output (500 watts) It got me thinking about a 25 watt PA Option.
> Would it be possible to replace the existing 10 watt PA board with a 25
> watt PA board that would use a larger heatsink instead of the case.
>
> If the stock Filters and Relays can handle the 25 watts it would seem that
> it would be a more inexpensive option for those who plan on going with the
> KPA500.
>
> Just a thought...
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[ab2tc]

Hi Fred,

I think that's fairly easy to explain. *Below* threshold the AGC does not
act at all so the SLP settings *should* have no effect. It comes into effect
as soon as signal rises above threshold.

AB2 TC - Knut


Cady, Fred-2 wrote
> Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.
> 
> To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best
> discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level. 
> When working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and
> makes signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for
> general rag chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also
> affect SLP.  For high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan
> explained that once but I'm not sure why that is so.
> 
> 
> BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values
> for different operating conditions.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Fred KE7X
> 
> 
> For all KE7X books (and other information) see
> www.ke7x.comhttp://www.ke7x.com;.
> 
> 
> snip>





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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[Matthew Cook]

To make this idea work you need to make a 25Wpep amplifier that is kept in
it's linear region so that the IMD from this amplifier does not cause
problems in the output of the KPA500.

To make a class A-B 25W amplifier such as this with enough linearity will
result in you designing an amplifier capable of 100Wpep at full smoke.  The
non-linear nature of HF PA's is easily found on the net.  Having designed
PA's for HF manpacks a number of years ago we simply turned down our
100Wpep design to 25Wpep and pocketed the performance increase at the
expense of cost.

The K3/100 at 25-35W has excellent linearity (highly likely by design, pat
designers on back for this one) which allows a more aggressive approach
within the KPA500 for grunt at the expense of "some" linearity.   You're
not increasing the cost of the KPA500 trying to eeek out every last bit of
linearity to get around the rubbish coming from the transceiver.

I'm keen to do some measurements in the near future of the SPE 1.3k-fa
amplifier being driven by a K3/10.  Having measured the IMD of my the
K3/100 at 10W (KPA3 disabled) recently I was a little surprised at the
result, it was not as clean as when driven at 30W with the KPA3 enabled.
I'd not be surprised to see some output degradation in the SPE from the
K3/10 c.f K3/100 driven at 20W with a -3dB inline attenuator.   This would
certainly explain some of the "wide" local signals that I've been seeing in
my SDR recently.

Engineering is always about compromise, and cascaded amplifiers are one of
the more trickier things to strike the right balance with.

73

Matthew
VK5ZM

On 23 February 2017 at 07:55, Harry Yingst via Elecraft <
elecraft@mailman.qth.net> wrote:

>
> Seeing how the KPA- 500 tends to need less than 25 watts to drive it to
> full output (500 watts) It got me thinking about a 25 watt PA Option.
> Would it be possible to replace the existing 10 watt PA board with a 25
> watt PA board that would use a larger heatsink instead of the case.
>
> If the stock Filters and Relays can handle the 25 watts it would seem that
> it would be a more inexpensive option for those who plan on going with the
> KPA500.
>
> Just a thought...
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[Ken Arck]

Seems to me that IMD might be noticeably worse that way


At 01:25 PM 2/22/2017, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
Seeing how the KPA- 500 tends to need less than 
25 watts to drive it to full output (500 watts) 
It got me thinking about a 25 watt PA 
Option.  Would it be possible to replace the 
existing 10 watt PA board with a 25 watt PA 
board that would use a larger heatsink instead 
of the case. If the stock Filters and Relays can 
handle the 25 watts it would seem that it would 
be a more inexpensive option for those who plan 
on going with the KPA500. Just a thought... 
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[Aaron Lee]

I'm dealing with indoor and hidden antennas for the next few years, 25
watts makes it much easier to stay within uncontrolled exposure limits
than 100 watts. 25 watts is much more appropriate for my confined urban
environment. It's also enough to have fun with the CW and digital modes
I enjoy. I get nervous pushing my KX3 past 5 watts some of the 100% duty
cycle digital modes. However, I would feel much more comfortable with a
desktop rig that could push 25 watts all day long.*

Aaron Lee
AC9OH

* Right now I'm debating between a 100 watt rig and trying to keep my
fingers off of the power knob or saving my money in hopes that something
better is on the market after I move.

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017, at 03:25 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:
> 
> Seeing how the KPA- 500 tends to need less than 25 watts to drive it to
> full output (500 watts) It got me thinking about a 25 watt PA Option. 
> Would it be possible to replace the existing 10 watt PA board with a 25
> watt PA board that would use a larger heatsink instead of the case.
> 
> If the stock Filters and Relays can handle the 25 watts it would seem
> that it would be a more inexpensive option for those who plan on going
> with the KPA500.
> 
> Just a thought...
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[Phil Hystad]

Good idea.  I would have went for that if it was available.

73, phil, K7PEH


> On Feb 22, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Seeing how the KPA- 500 tends to need less than 25 watts to drive it to full 
> output (500 watts) It got me thinking about a 25 watt PA Option. 
> Would it be possible to replace the existing 10 watt PA board with a 25 watt 
> PA board that would use a larger heatsink instead of the case.
> 
> If the stock Filters and Relays can handle the 25 watts it would seem that it 
> would be a more inexpensive option for those who plan on going with the 
> KPA500.
> 
> Just a thought...
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[Szabó István]

Harry I like this idea.

István, HA4ZD

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[Elecraft] Product Idea - 25 Watt PA for the K3

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

Seeing how the KPA- 500 tends to need less than 25 watts to drive it to full 
output (500 watts) It got me thinking about a 25 watt PA Option. 
Would it be possible to replace the existing 10 watt PA board with a 25 watt PA 
board that would use a larger heatsink instead of the case.

If the stock Filters and Relays can handle the 25 watts it would seem that it 
would be a more inexpensive option for those who plan on going with the KPA500.

Just a thought...




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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Mush

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I had a problem with clicks on return to receive with older firmware, 
quite a while back. Make sure you have the latest FW. Wayne fixed a bug 
which made a big improvement.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 22 Feb 2017 22:06, Ed G wrote:


When I change the AGC settings to those recommended to minimize the mush:

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR).

It seems to my ears that I am hearing louder clicks when the K3 switches
back to receive (CW of course). I know the clicks were a problem lots of
folks commented on a few years ago.

--Ed--

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Re: [Elecraft] New Firmware (k3fw5r57) Causes Odd Sound

[ke9uw]

To clarify, the issue is there with r57 and not there with r53. I did restore
the configuration of the rig to a previous configuration which was free of
the anomaly, just to reload any parameters that might have changed with the
install of r57, but that did not help.
So...since it's so small and hard to notice by the casual, I won't worry
about it, but thought that it was worth mentioning as an unwanted artifact
of r57. And I don't know which portion of the newest firmware is causing it,
the MCU, FPF, or DSP1,2.



-
Chuck, KE9UW
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver Mush

[Ed G]

When I change the AGC settings to those recommended to minimize the mush:

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less 

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). 

It seems to my ears that I am hearing louder clicks when the K3 switches
back to receive (CW of course). I know the clicks were a problem lots of
folks commented on a few years ago.

--Ed--



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[Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Irma Linas]

Hi everybody,

Following the advice in one of the posts here, I have changed the AGC
settings on my K3+ ( new sync and IO boards as per Elecraft mods kit
turning the old K3 actually into K3S). I've put the AGC THR to 12, AGS SLP
to 8, AGC DCY to SOFT in the Config menu.
Whaw! The efffect was immediate ,very obvious and pleasant! The strong
signals were strong, the weak were weak , but there was no pile-up mush!
What was especially of great importance for me - the long time annoying
problem of receiver hiss and humm when receiving on narrow band 250 Hz
filter was gone! Before, when switching the narrow filter on on weak
signals on the noisy band the signal actually was totally covered by the
increased noise in the filter. I think now it was due to the AGC reacting
to the noise and amplifying it in the narrow band mode because of the too
low AGC THR setting. When the threashhold was increased, the AGC stopped
equalizing the noise and only work on the signal. The result was awsome!
You switch the 250 hz roofing filter on and all the noise and interfering
stns are gone, and the signal you want is there! It could be a very loud
one or a weak one , but it is there and the noise is not!
I recommend everybody to try out this and experiment with the AGC settings
on your K3 radios!
73 de Linas LY2H
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[Elecraft] K3 won't RTTY

[Andrius - Mobile]

Hello.
My K3 won't RTTY on WARC bands.
Using WinTest + MTTY
All other bands are OK.
But WARC no.
K3 going into TX mode but no any RTTY sound.
Is it K3 setting or WinTest+MTTY problem?
73! Andy LY7Z


Siųsta iš „Samsung Mobile“
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Ignacy]

I experienced the mush as well and then rode the RF gain.

The problem is due to AGC reacting way too fast when in FAST. It seems that
higher HLD should solve the issue but it does not. I am wondering whether
HLD is applicable to AGC SLOW only? If so, the other choice is to reprogram
AGC SLOW, as K2AV does. Perhaps it completely solves the problem, as Guys
writes that he uses the fast AGC only during QRN. 

I am not sure whether AGC is mode specific as AGC slow needs to be really
slower for SSB and casual operation. If AGC is not mode specific, this means
reprogramming AGC SLOW before and after every contest. 

Ignacy, NO9E



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Drew AF2Z]

Yes, I have assigned SLP & THR to M1 tap & M1 hold. Then tap or hold M1 
and dial in the SLP or THR value as needed.



73,
Drew
AF2Z


On 02/22/17 12:07, Cady, Fred wrote:

Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.

To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best 
discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level.  When 
working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and makes 
signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for general rag 
chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also affect SLP.  For 
high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan explained that once but 
I'm not sure why that is so.


BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values for 
different operating conditions.


Cheers,

Fred KE7X


For all KE7X books (and other information) see 
www.ke7x.com.




From: Elecraft  on behalf of Ian White 

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:42 AM
To: 'W0MU Mike Fatchett'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.

I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.

I just think this is something that most people just never see. This

was

a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
the radio is.  I will have to try 

Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Cady, Fred]

Thanks Ian I was about to point out those AGC data but you beat me to it.

To emphasize the comments on SLP a bit, SLP = 0 gives you the best 
discrimination between signals of different strength ABOVE the THR level.  When 
working a pileup I want that.  Setting SLP=15  is a flat slope and makes 
signals of different level sound the same.  You might want that for general rag 
chewing.  However, since version 4.51, higher THR levels also affect SLP.  For 
high THR, SLP=0 and SLP=15 are virtually the same. Alan explained that once but 
I'm not sure why that is so.


BTW, it is easy to make macros to switch between different THR/SLP values for 
different operating conditions.


Cheers,

Fred KE7X


For all KE7X books (and other information) see 
www.ke7x.com.




From: Elecraft  on behalf of Ian White 

Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 12:42 AM
To: 'W0MU Mike Fatchett'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.





>-Original Message-
>From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>W0MU Mike Fatchett
>Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
>To: Elecraft Reflector
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush
>
>I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.
>
>I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.
>
>I just think this is something that most people just never see. This
was
>a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
>the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the
>same effects.
>
>In a pileup there is no offending station they are all calling me.
>
>I was just curious if other contesters or 

Re: [Elecraft] New Firmware (k3fw5r57) Causes Odd Sound

[ke9uw]

The issue went away when I reloaded r53 firmware and came back with r57. I
emphasize that the effect is very small and would be missed by most
listeners except for some very critical listeners. One friend said it
sounded like a clatter mechanical noise rather than a fan. Once you are
aware of it, you hear it routinely. It's not a deal breaker, just an anomaly
that might be explained and eliminated by the firmware guys.



-
Chuck, KE9UW
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Re: [Elecraft] New Firmware (k3fw5r57) Causes Odd Sound

[KENT TRIMBLE]

I have no idea how to cure a "zizzy," but I was told I had hum on my SSB 
signal after 6 years of perfect audio. Re-flowing the solder joints in 
the MH3 cured it.  Whiskers, maybe.


73,

Kent  K9ZTV
K3 s.n 021


On 2/22/2017 8:57 AM, ke9uw wrote:

Right forgot to say...this is on the 4K serial numbered K3 with all options
included.





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Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection

[WILLIE BABER]

My only point John is that replacing that diode with instructions for Elecraft 
is not at all difficult to do.

73, Will, wj9b



CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Wed, 2/22/17, j...@kk9a.com  wrote:

 Subject: [Elecraft]  Front end protection
 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 Date: Wednesday, February 22, 2017, 5:20 AM
 
 I am surprised that you think it is
 not possible to accidentally set the
 bandpass filter to the wrong band or have an automatic
 switching relay
 fail, have a control wire pull out or just plain cockpit
 error after
 operating sleep deprived?  W0MU has a good point, if
 you're operating away
 from home like many of us do it could be a nice feature.
 
 John KK9A (WP2AA next week)
 
 WILLIE BABER said:
 Tue Feb 21 20:43:05 EST 2017
 
 I replaced that diode in my K3 with instructions from an
 Elecraft
 technican-person. I also at the point purchased bandpass
 filters so that I
 didn't have to worry about that happening again.
 
 
 73, Will, wj9b
 
 CWops #1085
 CWA Advisor levels II and III
 http://cwops.org/
 
 
 On Tue, 2/21/17, W0MU Mike Fatchett 
 wrote:
 
  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection
  To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
  Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 5:34 PM
 
  Most everyone missed the
  point.
 
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Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Trying to change out a SMD part on a DXpedition is not easy.   In my 
case I am not sure that D25 is the problem.  Sure I could pull that part 
out only if I had thought to order some and bring along along with the 
proper tools to resolder a tiny part.


I am asking for a simple field solution such as a socket where you can 
insert or remove a diode, etc or even a complete protection module for a 
reasonable price that could be simply removed and a new one plugged in.


W0MU


On 2/22/2017 6:20 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote:

I am surprised that you think it is not possible to accidentally set the
bandpass filter to the wrong band or have an automatic switching relay
fail, have a control wire pull out or just plain cockpit error after
operating sleep deprived?  W0MU has a good point, if you're operating away
from home like many of us do it could be a nice feature.

John KK9A (WP2AA next week)

WILLIE BABER said:
Tue Feb 21 20:43:05 EST 2017

I replaced that diode in my K3 with instructions from an Elecraft
technican-person. I also at the point purchased bandpass filters so that I
didn't have to worry about that happening again.


73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 2/21/17, W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection
  To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
  Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 5:34 PM

  Most everyone missed the
  point.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

Thanks.

My threshhold was at 8  I have moved it up to 12.  Slope was zero but I 
change it all the time hoping for a miracle!  HI!


I am going to have to borrow another rig when I get back and see if I 
see the same things on another brand.


W0MU


On 2/22/2017 1:42 AM, Ian White wrote:

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."
  
The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of

"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.
  
More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51

"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.






-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: 22 February 2017 00:39
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

I can run with 400 or 250hz filters.

I have tried it with AGC fast, slow off etc.

I just think this is something that most people just never see. This

was

a major point of discussion a while back.  I guess it is just the way
the radio is.  I will have to try another rig to see if I notice the
same effects.

In a pileup there is no offending station they are all calling me.

I was just curious if other contesters or DXpeditioners settings might
be and if they are still seeing this issue.

W0MU



On 2/21/2017 8:48 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Mike,

Think about it - if there are multiple signals in the passband, the
AGC will respond to the strongest, there is just no way around that

fact.

If the signals can be separated by the DSP, and one is really strong,
that strong station may be activating the Hardware AGC. The only
solution for the latter is a more narrow roofing filter - put the
offending strong signal out of the passband of the roofing filter and
use shift to get your sidetone for the desired signal back in order.

That may be too much "fiddling" for a run station in a contest, but

it

is a viable way to operate when trying to copy a weak station working
close to a 

Re: [Elecraft] New Firmware (k3fw5r57) Causes Odd Sound

[ke9uw]

Right forgot to say...this is on the 4K serial numbered K3 with all options
included.



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Richard Ferch]

Actually it's not the 250 Hz roofing filter that is too narrow, it is the
250 Hz DSP filter setting. If you ignore the label on the roofing filter
and configure the K3 to switch the 250 Hz crystal filter in at the 350 Hz
DSP setting, the combination (350 Hz DSP, 250 Hz roofing filter) works fine
for those situations where there is a very strong signal right next door.
The rest of the time I prefer to operate with a 400-450 Hz DSP bandwidth
and a 500 Hz roofing filter.

73,
Rich VE3KI


N1MGO wrote:

I do lots of rtty contesting.  I have found the 400Hz filter to be
just right for rtty.  The 250 is too narrow.  I then narrow the DSP
filter to 300Hz if needed, with the 400Hz Xtal filter in front.
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Re: [Elecraft] New Firmware (k3fw5r57) Causes Odd Sound

[kg9hfr...@gmail.com]

For which radio?
Frank KG9H

> On Feb 22, 2017, at 8:37 AM, ke9uw  wrote:
> 
> I updated from the r35 to r57 firmware and received reports of an almost
> imperceptible but noticeable zizzy sound when I quit talking and before the
> vox drops out on 80M sideband. The listeners say it sounds like a fan in the
> background, but I have no fans or noise in the room.
> I reloaded the r35 and the issue was gone. 
> Anybody have any ideas? Elecraft?
> Chuck, KE9UW
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Chuck, KE9UW
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/New-Firmware-k3fw5r57-Causes-Odd-Sound-tp7627264.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Elecraft] New Firmware (k3fw5r57) Causes Odd Sound

[ke9uw]

I updated from the r35 to r57 firmware and received reports of an almost
imperceptible but noticeable zizzy sound when I quit talking and before the
vox drops out on 80M sideband. The listeners say it sounds like a fan in the
background, but I have no fans or noise in the room.
I reloaded the r35 and the issue was gone. 
Anybody have any ideas? Elecraft?
Chuck, KE9UW



-
Chuck, KE9UW
--
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[Elecraft] Fun early mornings on 80M

[Pete Meier]

While Ed is having fun on 3.560 I'm having a ball up a kHz or so just beyond 
3.561

I worked 3 stations this morning from Manitou Springs, CO on my mcHF QRP 
transceiver at 5 watts to an EFHW up at 30 feet.

N4ELM   BILL from Lafayette, LA
AB8DF   ED from Waterford, MI
K8CVWALT from Royal Oak, MI

I want to thank the operators for their patience and skill in working my QRP 
station surrounded by the foothills of the Rockies near Pikes Peak.

It was very neat to work Walt K8CV whom I often joined as a  checkin to the MI 
QRP Net long before I moved out here from Waterford, MI.

This radio stuff is fun even in the doldrums of our current solar cycle!


Pete WK8S


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Gordon LaPoint]

Dave,
I do lots of rtty contesting.  I have found the 400Hz filter to be 
just right for rtty.  The 250 is too narrow.  I then narrow the DSP 
filter to 300Hz if needed, with the 400Hz Xtal filter in front.

Gordon - N1MGO

On 02/21/2017 06:27 PM, Dave Fugleberg wrote:

Don, that's a great explanation. I came to the same conclusion in a recent
RTTY contest. I built my K3 with the single stock filter based on advice
from a number of folks to 'just operate for awhile til you get the feel for
what other filters you need'. I think that's sound advice.
Anyhow, I've been generally ok with the standard filter and relying on DSP
filtering to narrow it as needed. However, in the RTTY contest, I often had
issues working weaker stations when strong ones were very close by. It was
easy to see what was going on by watching the P3- I'd start copying a
signal inside the DSP bandwidth, and a strong one would pop up just above
or below that station. Even though I couldn't hear the strong station, the
weak one would go nearly silent as the AGC kicked in due to the strong
signal in the IF passband.
So, I think I've learned that I need a narrower filter for such situations.
I'm thinking a 400hz filter is what I want. Any reason for a different
selection in that scenario?
73 de W0ZF
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 8:52 AM Don Wilhelm  wrote:





--
Gordon - N1MGO

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Arie Kleingeld PA3A]

Thanks Ian for bringing all the info back to the list.

My settings: slope 9, thr 12, decay soft, pls nor, hld 0.20 , agc-s 20 
to 30 (depends...)


73,

Arie PA3A


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Re: [Elecraft] DIGTAL INTERFACE EA3BLQ

[Doug Shields]

Jean,
 The message below was sent to all three email addresses you provided.
I will include it here so hopefully you will receive the message.

Doug W4DAS

Jean,
 I am sorry that I have not responded to your earlier email.  I was sick
for some time and did not pay much attention to emails.   I would sell the
assembled EA3BLQ board with the pieces needed to integrate it into the K2
for $150.  The unassembled kit with the same parts for integration would be
$120.  I can accept payments through Paypal at account name
w4...@comcast.net .  I will pay for the postage.  Please let me know if I
can help.

Doug  W4DAS 



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[Elecraft] Front end protection

[j...@kk9a.com]

I am surprised that you think it is not possible to accidentally set the
bandpass filter to the wrong band or have an automatic switching relay
fail, have a control wire pull out or just plain cockpit error after
operating sleep deprived?  W0MU has a good point, if you're operating away
from home like many of us do it could be a nice feature.

John KK9A (WP2AA next week)

WILLIE BABER said:
Tue Feb 21 20:43:05 EST 2017

I replaced that diode in my K3 with instructions from an Elecraft
technican-person. I also at the point purchased bandpass filters so that I
didn't have to worry about that happening again.


73, Will, wj9b

CWops #1085
CWA Advisor levels II and III
http://cwops.org/


On Tue, 2/21/17, W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Front end protection
 To: elecraft at mailman.qth.net
 Date: Tuesday, February 21, 2017, 5:34 PM

 Most everyone missed the
 point.

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Receiver mush

[Vic Rosenthal 4X6GP]

I remember this, and had forgotten what I set them at. I just looked and 
I see that I have SLP=003 and THR=14! That is practically no AGC at all. 
In contests I sometimes turn up the SLP to protect my ears, but for 
normal DXing this is what I've gotten used to and I like it.


73,
Vic, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

On 22 Feb 2017 09:42, Ian White wrote:

Re-posting from April 2016, and earlier:

73 from Ian GM3SEK


***

The factory default AGC THReshold for the K3 and K3S is very, very low.
Measurements by KE7X [1] have shown that the default setting of THR=5
corresponds to an AGC onset at less than S3, whereas competing rigs have
a threshold of S7 or even higher. This very low AGC threshold is what
allows the AGC to be activated by band noise.

Elecraft's factory defaults of THR=5 and SLP=12 compress all signals
above the AGC threshold into a very narrow range of audio output levels
[see the measurements by KE7X]. This makes for comfortable
broadcast-style listening - but there is price to be paid. The default
settings tend to hide the real-life differences in the strengths of
incoming signals - important differences that DXers and contesters
*need* to hear, in order to pick individual signals out of a pileup.

Following complaints from DXers, DXpeditioners and contesters about this
so-called "pileup mush", and following further series of measurements by
KE7X, Elecraft eventually did increase the available range of AGC
THReshold settings (the v4.51 firmware upgrade).

Following the release of FW v4.51, the consensus within the
[K3-contesting] Yahoo group about the most important settings for DXing
and contesting has been as follows.

* AGC THR: increase to at least 8 (from default = 5) and preferably to
12, and then take some time to become re-accustomed to the increased
range of audio levels [2]. (Some users recommend as high as 14, if your
ears can handle it.)

* AGC SLP: decrease to 8 or even less (from default = 12). Lower SLP
settings allow stronger signals to sound somewhat louder, and thus more
realistic, but the range of variation will be partly determined by the
THR setting already made; so always experiment with THR first, and with
SLP afterwards.

* AGC DCY = SOFT (not default=NOR). The User Manual claims that "The
SOFT setting can reduce IMD caused by traditional AGC, and is especially
useful in 'pileup' conditions, in some cases making it unnecessary to
turn AGC off."

The settings recommended above have essentially solved the problem of
"pileup mush" for those who have tried them... but regrettably, Elecraft
has done almost nothing to make DXers and contesters  aware that such
changes are possible.

More than 3 years after the firmware release notes boasted that v4.51
"greatly improves signal clarity in pile-ups and other high-noise or
dense-signal situations, especially with threshold set to 12 or higher",
that information is *still* missing from the User Manual. There is also
no information on how to create different 'profiles' of AGC settings for
different types of users.

Meanwhile, Elecraft's factory AGC defaults remain exactly as they were,
still optimized apparently for comfortable 'listening', while many DXers
and contesters remain unaware that their K3/K3S could actually be *so*
much better.



[1] http://www.ke7x.com/home/miscellaneous-k3-information

[2] It is important to give any increased AGC THReshold setting an
extended trial. To anyone accustomed to an artificially restricted range
of audio signal levels, a higher setting will initially sound quite
'aggressive' - even though the new setting is much closer to real life.

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[Elecraft] DIGTAL INTERFACE EA3BLQ

[Behiels Jean-Pierre]

Doug;


Did you not receive my previous E-mails ?
I try to contact you many times on many ways but no reply anymore ?

Regards Jean ON4AEF. 


-Original Message-
From: Doug Shields [mailto:w4...@comcast.net] 
Sent: vrijdag 17 februari 2017 03:49
To: 'Behiels Jean-Pierre' 
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] DIGTAL INTERFACE EA3BLQ

Jean,
  I have two of the EA3BLQ board sets.  One set has the boards assembled
and the second set is unassembled.  I also have the specific connectors and
everything needed for a full installation of the boards.  Since I obtained
the boards I have acquired a K3 and do not want to do any mods to my K2.
Please let me know if either set interests you.  73.

Doug  W4DAS

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Behiels Jean-Pierre
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 1:48 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] DIGTAL INTERFACE EA3BLQ

Hi K2 users;

We all now that the digital interface realised especially for the K2 by
EA3BLQ in past,is SK despite !

A lot of time is gone,but are there some alternated suggestions,about the
building concept of EA3BLQ.

I can imagine that someone has continues his PCB art work for further K2
digital interface users .
I personally not need for my own purpose.

I do have build a ON4AEF external digital interface for my own into a second
K2 box (Don W3PFR now about my concept hi) .  

But a friend of mine who also have a K2 and he like to build a digital
interface circuit for his K2 like EA3BLQ has build.

He prefer the design of EA3BLQ but he needs some PCB's of Pedro.

>From there my request if someone has some dupes EA3BLQ boards or are there
some copies released around his project hi ..

Kindly regards es thanks anyway

73's Jean ON4AEF.


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