Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] FT8 Here's My Comparison of FT8 and Regular Modes

[Mark via Elecraft]

Oh my!  I hope we aren't having a pop quiz on this tomorrow!

Wayne wrote:
Many of us have vanishingly little τ, and from earlier posts it’s clear that K 
is irrational, so I propose reordering the terms as a Taylor series.

Doug wrote:
My limited math abilities express then relationship as- 
    Dm(S10τ+Oτ)=K 

    Kd(Sτ+O10τ)=K

--Mark,
   KE6BB

null
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Joan via Elecraft]

One of the very best things about Ham radio is how mindbogglingly huge the tent 
is ^_^

de KX2CW 
Joan

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, said Piglet.
Shaka, when the walls fell, said Pooh.

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 14:11, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> I can't resist.
> 
> My accomplishments: I have a DXCC with 150+ LotW confirmed entities. I have 
> over 100 entities on both digital and CW, less on voice. I have a triple play 
> WAS. I have 5 contacts with KH1/KH7Z in their log, 2 CW, 2 FT8, and 1 SSB. 
> (I'm missing RTTY.) I'm active in ARES/RACES, and like to rag chew, either on 
> the local repeaters, or with PSK31. I'm trying to be a well rounded ham.
> 
> I look at FT8 as another step in station automation.
> 
> Back when I started, in the early 1960s, it was normal to have separate 
> transmitters and receivers. Frequently people would have to manually switch 
> the antenna between the two. Now we have full break in with CW. That's an 
> advance in station automation.
> 
> We used to keep logs on paper, now many of us keep them on a computer 
> reducing the chance for error in details like frequency and time. FT8 carries 
> it a step further by building a log entry which includes the call, grid and 
> signal reports. That's an advance in station automation.
> 
> We used to scan the bands by turning the big knob to locate other stations. 
> Now we have spotting networks and panadapters. That's an advance in station 
> automation.
> 
> When one station wanted to call another, it had to transmit for a long enough 
> time so the other station could find him. CQs were long for the same reason. 
> Now we can change to his listening frequency and make a call. Many people use 
> this technique for working DX pileups. FT8 makes it even more automatic by 
> highlighting all messages that include your call sign. That's an advance in 
> station automation.
> 
> Where do I come down in all of this? I'm all over the place. In CW contests, 
> I operate unassisted because I want to improve my CW skills, and getting the 
> calls from a spot or decoder doesn't help me toward this goal. When working 
> as part of a contest team, I'm happy using everything that is legal for our 
> entry category. When trying to work rare DX, I'm quite happy running power. I 
> just want to put out a clean signal and not be too obnoxious to other hams.
> 
> I've heard a lot of comment about various contest rules being too automated 
> or requiring facilities that are not available to everyone. For example 
> contests that provide real-time score tracking. Here I think we should let 
> 1000 flowers bloom. Sure, enjoy Straight Key Night (SKN) and bring out your 
> boat anchor and old paper log book. But also have contests where contesters 
> and an audience can keep track of the scores in real time. Some people can't 
> do CW and sit SKN out. Others may not have the Internet connectivity needed 
> for the real-time contest. In the old days, many hams did not have a Teletype 
> machine for RTTY contests and had to forgo RTTY contacts.
> 
> Do what you enjoy. Ham radio is a very big tent.
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> ---
> Bill Frantz| Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
> 408-356-8506   | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is *not* the
> www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground.  - Terence Kelly
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Richard]

Glad to see someone else enjoying the reality of FT8. 

For all those who are running huge power because they think that’s what it 
takes to work FT8 DX — ruining the enjoyment of others in the process — 
consider this. 

About a week ago, from my little central Florida station, running 75 watts into 
a hex beam up just 30 feet, I worked 25 Australian stations nearly in a row in 
the space of 90 minutes. All were over 9000 miles, 11 were over 10,000 miles, 
and 4 were over 11,000 to 12,000 miles. It was a BALL!

It was amazing but not all that unusual. The fun is catching big ones on light 
tackle, not shooting them in a barrel with a 12-gauge.

Cheers,
Richard - W4KBX

> But if you're willing to accept the tradeoff you can make QSO's that would 
> otherwise be IMPOSSIBLE.
> 
> I worked an HA the other night using FT8 with no repeats needed, and I didn't 
> even see his signal on the waterfall. That's a Q that could not have been 
> made otherwise.  I like it!
> 
> 73,
> --Lenny W2BVH
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[w2bvh]

Basically FT8 adds tremendously to your receiver's sensitivity. The 
tradeoff is that the QSOs are highly structured. Not much opportunity 
for "How's the weather in Dogpatch?" But if you're willing to accept the 
tradeoff you can make QSO's that would otherwise be IMPOSSIBLE.  If 
you're not willing to make the tradeoff the other modes are still there 
for you, just maybe not with some OM's you'd like to work.


I worked an HA the other night using FT8 with no repeats needed, and I 
didn't even see his signal on the waterfall. That's a Q that could not 
have been made otherwise.  I like it!


73,
--Lenny W2BVH


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[W5RDW]

Soon after I started FT8 in April, I like others wondered why I am sitting in
front of the 'tube" listening to the "whales" talk to each other (at least
thats what it sound like!). I quickly got bored, but since there really
wasn't any good DX floating around, I got addicted to it, just working for
WAS, etc.

One day in April, I  had an Elmer tell me about /pskreporter/, to use in
seeing where I was being heard, etc. One evening when 20M was pretty wide
open to the east (AS and EU Russia) and west (Japan, China, VK/ZL), I
noticed hams were being reported all around Uzbekistan, one of the dozen
remaining entities I need. I looked up on a few websites that had active UK?
Uzbekistan hams on the air. There was UK9AA, active and on FT8 I had
never heard Uzbekistan in many years and was excited maybe I could work him
on FT8.

Well, you can guess the rest of the story. I emailed him, Fedor, and we set
up a sked, eventually completing the qso on FT8 on 20 meters! With 70 watts
at that! Wow, that was easy!

Since then, I have worked over 75 countries w/o even trying on the new
digital mode! It's still not as exciting as grabbing a rare on on CW, but it
sure gives one another tool to work the rare one!



-
Roger W5RDW
--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] FT8 Here's My Comparison of FT8 and Regular Modes

[Wayne Burdick]

Yeah, sorry. Math joke

Wayne


> On Jul 3, 2018, at 7:21 PM, Robert Duncan  wrote:
> 
> Just in case there are others like me who did not know what a Taylor 
> Series is :
> 
> In mathematics, a Taylor series is a representation of a function as an 
> infinite sum of terms 
> that are calculated from the values of the function's derivatives at a single 
> point.
> 
> Source - Wikipedia
> 
> Cheers
> Rob
> VK5ZIK
> 
> On 4 July 2018 at 11:03, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com [KX3] 
>  wrote:
> Doug,
> 
> I accept your gauntlet and will submit one final OT post despite my business 
> partner’s attempt to shut it down.
> 
> To wit:
> 
> Many of us have vanishingly little τ, and from earlier posts it’s clear that 
> K is irrational, so I propose reordering the terms as a Taylor series.
> 
> Wayne
> N6KR
> 
> > On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Doug Millar  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Hi All, 
> > 
> > I was thinking about the differences between using the digital modes on HF 
> > and Knob and Dial modes, and I came up with this comparison.
> > 
> > Basically ft8 and digital modes take more work on the setup end and are 
> > easy to operate and "knob and dial" radios have little setup and the most 
> > time is spent directing the operation. Both take the same amount of effort 
> > but are inverse. 
> > My limited math abilities express then relationship as- 
> > 
> > Dm(S10τ+Oτ)=K 
> > 
> > Kd(Sτ+O10τ)=K
> > 
> > Where Dm= Digital Mode Kd=Knob and Dial radios S= Setup 
> > O= Operating τ= Time K= Total effort
> > 
> > 
> > Revisions welcome- Doug Millar K6JEY



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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Neil Zampella]

.. and if you add JT-Alert to the mix, it can do the QRZ lookup for you ..

Neil, KN3ILZ


On 7/3/2018 5:32 PM, Carl Yaffey wrote:

On Jul 3, 2018, at 4:42 PM, Grant Youngman  wrote:


and don’t care to find out what the other guy’s name is or what he/she does 
when they aren’t punching at their own keyboard

As soon as I start an FT8 “iso”, I go to QRZ and look the person up.


Carl Yaffey  K8NU
Recording studio.
cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com




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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Neil Zampella]

Wes,

you're taking that out of context.   The structured messages allow for 
redundancy if some of the original message is missing. The decoder can 
take the sync symbols so that the system can understand what type of 
message it is, it still needs the callsign and signal report.


More details can be found here: 
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/wsjtx-doc/wsjtx-main-1.9.1.html#PROTOCOLS
and here 
https://physics.princeton.edu/pulsar/k1jt/FrankeTaylor_QEX_2016.pdf 
which covers JT65, but which forms some of the basis for the other JT/FT 
protocols.


Neil, KN3ILZ


On 7/3/2018 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

In a message to this group back in February I wrote:

   Quoting G4WJS: "For FT8 the net effect is that
   up to about 5 seconds of a message may be missing yet still
   be decoded. The amount missing can be either a truncation or
   parts of the message below the decoding threshold. The FT8
   message is structured with sync symbols at the start, middle
   and end so missing the start or end may have less impact
   than missing other parts since mostly sync symbols may be
   lost and they contain no message information."

Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary"  since it hears things that 
aren't there.


Wes  N7WS

On 7/3/2018 12:36 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8:  “Given the 
level of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic 
radio’ instead of ‘ham radio’.”


New contest category?

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] FT8 Here's My Comparison of FT8 and Regular Modes

[Wayne Burdick]

Doug,

I accept your gauntlet and will submit one final OT post despite my business 
partner’s attempt to shut it down.

To wit:

Many of us have vanishingly little τ, and from earlier posts it’s clear that K 
is irrational, so I propose reordering the terms as a Taylor series.

Wayne
N6KR



> On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Doug Millar  wrote:
> 
>  
> Hi All, 
> 
> I was thinking about the differences between using the digital modes on HF 
> and Knob and Dial modes, and I came up with this comparison.
> 
>  Basically ft8 and digital modes take more work on the setup end and are 
> easy to operate and "knob and dial" radios have little setup and the most 
> time is spent directing the operation. Both take the same amount of effort 
> but are inverse.  
>My limited math abilities express then relationship as- 
> 
>   Dm(S10τ+Oτ)=K 
> 
>Kd(Sτ+O10τ)=K
> 
> Where Dm= Digital Mode  Kd=Knob and Dial radios  S= Setup 
>   O= Operating  τ= Time  K= Total effort
> 
> 
>   Revisions welcome-Doug Millar K6JEY



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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Neil Zampella]

Mike,

the only automation is in the middle of the contact, the operator has to 
be in front of the radio and computer in order to select a station to 
answer,  to begin transmission, and to log the QSO.


None of that is automated in WSJT-X.   I cannot speak for other programs 
that have gone beyond that.


Neil, KN3ILZ


On 7/3/2018 5:06 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
That is FT8.  There is no involvement once the contact starts. That is 
the beauty of it.    The automation is no legal in the USA and many 
other places but I doubt it will be addressed much like excessive 
power.  It is never addressed.  Do it right.  Don't worry about 
others.  Have fun.


The RTTY difference is that they come back to me and I moved, they 
can't find me, they waste more time sending w0mu 599 over and over and 
over again.  That is not better in my book.  If have not left.  I push 
one other button to make a contact.  Seems pretty similar to me.


To each their own.

W0MU


On 7/3/2018 2:59 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
"How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions 
that  would do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range 
and stack  the calls heard?"


The, in my opinion huge, difference is that FT8 DXpedition mode does 
not even require the operator to be in the shack to complete the 
QSO.  All it takes is to start auto TX of your grid and then walk 
away.  As long as your call gets on the stack before your watchdog 
times out (assuming you have not defeated it) then the rest is 
automatic, including waking up your TX Enable if it had timed out.


Two of my KH1 FT8 QSO were completed after I had given up and turned 
off TX Enable.  Although I was still in the shack I had no 
involvement in completing the QSO.  I was just a spectator. That is 
very different from the level of interaction required to complete a 
QSO in CW, Phone, or RTTY.


I have no opinion on the experience of the DXpedition operator. Never 
been one and not likely to be one.


73,
Andy k3wyc


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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] FT8 Here's My Comparison of FT8 and Regular Modes

[Doug Millar via Elecraft]

 

Hi All, 

I was thinking about the differences between using the digital modes on HF 
andKnob and Dial modes, and I came up with this comparison. 

 Basically ft8 and digital modes take morework on the setup end and are 
easy to operate and "knob and dial"radios have little setup and the most time 
is spent directing the operation.Both take the same amount of effort but are 
inverse.  
   My limited math abilities express then relationship as- 

  Dm(S10τ+Oτ)=K  

  Kd(Sτ+O10τ)=K

Where Dm=Digital Mode  Kd=Knoband Dial radios  S= Setup 
  O=Operating  τ= Time K= Total effort



  Revisionswelcome-    Doug Millar K6JEY


Dr.Doug Millar EdD.
K6JEY
drzarko...@yahoo.com
562 810 3989  cell/text

  

On Tuesday, July 3, 2018, 12:37:05 PM PDT, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com 
[KX3]  wrote:  
 
     
Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8: “Given the level of 
automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead of ‘ham 
radio’.”

New contest category?

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Neil Zampella]

Andy,

that's not right ... you have to be in the shack to make sure the system 
keeps calling as there is a 2 minute timer that will turn off your 
transmission. It is also suggested that if you don't get a reply 
back after the first two minute period, manually move the Tx freq.


Finally, once you do get that final acknowledgement from the DXpedition, 
you have to physically log the QSO.  It does not do it automatically.


From the DXPedition mode user guide:

"You may keep calling until he answers, perhaps changing your Tx 
frequency in the hope of finding a frequency clear of interference. Use 
Shift+Click on the waterfall to change your Tx frequency — the red “goal 
posts” marker on the waterfall scale. You will need to re-activate 
Enable Tx (or hit Enter on the keyboard) at least once every two 
minutes. (This restriction is to ensure that an operator is present and 
paying attention.)"


As far as it still running, you must have missed this part of the Users 
Guide for HOUNDS in Item 12:


"Note that WSJT-X will send this message even if Enable Tx is disabled, 
and even if you have not called Fox for several Tx sequences. If you 
have stopped calling Fox because you will be leaving the rig unattended, 
you should quit WSJT-X or disable Hound mode in order to avoid the 
possibility of unwanted transmissions."


So again, the operator is still in charge of what he's doing.

All that said, there are a lot of people who live in very compromised 
locations that now have KH1 in their logs because of FT8.
Unfortunately, it wasn't me.   My location is such I didn't hear them on 
any mode.


Neil, KN3ILZ


On 7/3/2018 4:59 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

"How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that  would do 
essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack  the calls heard?"

The, in my opinion huge, difference is that FT8 DXpedition mode does not even 
require the operator to be in the shack to complete the QSO.  All it takes is 
to start auto TX of your grid and then walk away.  As long as your call gets on 
the stack before your watchdog times out (assuming you have not defeated it) 
then the rest is automatic, including waking up your TX Enable if it had timed 
out.

Two of my KH1 FT8 QSO were completed after I had given up and turned off TX 
Enable.  Although I was still in the shack I had no involvement in completing 
the QSO.  I was just a spectator.  That is very different from the level of 
interaction required to complete a QSO in CW, Phone, or RTTY.

I have no opinion on the experience of the DXpedition operator.  Never been one 
and not likely to be one.

73,
Andy k3wyc





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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Wes Stewart]

Even in my analog EME days, a pretty good test of a CW op, I never once heard a 
signal that was there before I started listening. (G4WJS was responding to my 
concern about K3's timing issues on FT8 delaying transmission.)


Now the JT65 guys "copy" callsigns by looking up the closest sounding one in a 
database with the program saying "Ah ha" that must be the one.


I realize that contest software does the same guessing these days, but I don't 
regularly operate in contests, so I use my regular log and type it in myself.


Regards,

Wes  N7WS


On 7/3/2018 4:48 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

On 2018-07-03 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:


Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary" since it hears things that
aren't there.


Not true.  It takes advantage of large polynomial encoding that allows
the decoder to "get the message" in spite of missing or damaged bits.
That's no different than *an experienced CW operator* will "copy"
callsigns through noise and QRM by picking up one or two characters
at a time from multiple repeats.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2018-07-03 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

In a message to this group back in February I wrote:

    Quoting G4WJS: "For FT8 the net effect is that
    up to about 5 seconds of a message may be missing yet still
    be decoded. The amount missing can be either a truncation or
    parts of the message below the decoding threshold. The FT8
    message is structured with sync symbols at the start, middle
    and end so missing the start or end may have less impact
    than missing other parts since mostly sync symbols may be
    lost and they contain no message information."

Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary"  since it hears things that aren't there.

Wes  N7WS


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Carl Jón Denbow]

Grant,

Was that a McBee desk-sized rather than desktop computer?  I saw one of those 
in my youth, but I live in the town where they were manufactured.

73,

Carl
N8VZ

Sent from my iPhone
===
Carl Jón Denbow, N8VZ
17 Coventry Lane
Athens, Ohio 45701-3718
 
c...@n8vz.com
www.n8vz.com
EM89wh
 
IRLP 4533   Echolink 116070
 
PSK and JT65 Forever!
===

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 8:46 PM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks - Let's end this OT thread at this time in the interest of relieving 
> other readers from email overload.
> 
> 73,
> Eric
> Mooderator..
> /elecraft.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] Working KH1

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Good rigs and amps too! ;-)
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 7/3/2018 1:44 PM, Mike Flowers wrote:

Good job, Carl.

They have great ops on the Baker Island team.  Once they get a piece of your 
callsign, they’ll usually get you in the log.

-- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!"


On Jul 3, 2018, at 1:25 PM, Carl Yaffey  wrote:

I thought I’d never work Baker Island since I couldn’t hear them on any band. 
Suddenly there they were on 14023. Very weak.
Thanks to my good ol’ KS3, I could engage APF and hear them OK. Here’s how it 
went:
ME: K8NU
KH1: K8?
ME: K8NU
KH1: K8?
ME: K8NU K8NU
KH1: WAIT WAIT WAIT K8?
ME: K8NU K8NU
KH1: K8NU 599
ME: 73.

What an operator! He made everyone wait until he could copy me. Amazing.


Carl Yaffey  K8NU



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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - Let's end this OT thread at this time in the interest of relieving other 
readers from email overload.


73,
Eric
Mooderator..
/elecraft.com/
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Re: [Elecraft] K3S / IC-7610 comparison table

[Wayne Burdick]

Just a quick word of thanks to all who have requested and reviewed the 
comparison table so far. We’ve updated it significantly based on your feedback.

73,
Wayne
N6KR



> 
> In response to many questions fielded by our sales and support staff we’ve 
> put together a comparison of the K3S vs. the IC-7610. 
> 
> While all rigs have certain strengths, the K3S has a combination of 
> performance, features, and form factor that provide unique benefits to the 
> operator, especially those who may encounter high-signal conditions or 
> require portability (or both, as in the case of Field Day, DXpeditions, etc.).
> 
> The comparison table is in draft form and will continue to evolve, so we’re 
> not posting it on our website just yet. However, we’ll be happy to send the 
> current edition on request to anyone actively weighing the tradeoffs between 
> the K3S and other transceivers.
> 
> Please email me directly if you’re interested. I’ll be happy to expand on 
> information presented, whether theoretical or functional. No doubt these 
> discussions will help us refine the table.
> 
> 73,
> Wayne
> N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] Working KH1

[Nr4c]

You didn’t send a “signal report”!?

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jul 3, 2018, at 4:25 PM, Carl Yaffey  wrote:
> 
> I thought I’d never work Baker Island since I couldn’t hear them on any band. 
> Suddenly there they were on 14023. Very weak.
> Thanks to my good ol’ KS3, I could engage APF and hear them OK. Here’s how it 
> went:
> ME: K8NU
> KH1: K8?
> ME: K8NU
> KH1: K8?
> ME: K8NU K8NU
> KH1: WAIT WAIT WAIT K8?
> ME: K8NU K8NU
> KH1: K8NU 599
> ME: 73.
> 
> What an operator! He made everyone wait until he could copy me. Amazing.
> 
> 
> Carl Yaffey  K8NU
> Recording studio.
> cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
> 614 268 6353, Columbus OH
> http://www.carl-yaffey.com
> http://www.grassahol.com
> http://www.bluesswing.com
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Joe Subich, W4TV]

On 2018-07-03 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:


Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary" since it hears things that
aren't there.


Not true.  It takes advantage of large polynomial encoding that allows
the decoder to "get the message" in spite of missing or damaged bits.
That's no different than *an experienced CW operator* will "copy"
callsigns through noise and QRM by picking up one or two characters
at a time from multiple repeats.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV


On 2018-07-03 5:16 PM, Wes Stewart wrote:

In a message to this group back in February I wrote:

    Quoting G4WJS: "For FT8 the net effect is that
    up to about 5 seconds of a message may be missing yet still
    be decoded. The amount missing can be either a truncation or
    parts of the message below the decoding threshold. The FT8
    message is structured with sync symbols at the start, middle
    and end so missing the start or end may have less impact
    than missing other parts since mostly sync symbols may be
    lost and they contain no message information."

Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary"  since it hears things that aren't 
there.


Wes  N7WS

On 7/3/2018 12:36 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8:  “Given the 
level of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic 
radio’ instead of ‘ham radio’.”


New contest category?

Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] K2 a little deaf? FIXED!

[John Oppenheimer]

On 07/03/2018 04:21 PM, w2bvh wrote:
> The MDS problem is now apparently fixed!

Great news Lenny! I got interested and spent the afternoon measuring my
K2. Once having the results, I had to send them! And wanted to test my
new test equipment.

The K2 is an amazing radio. I'm glad that the Elecraft team is keeping
the kit available.

John KN5L K2 #7212
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Re: [Elecraft] K2 a little deaf?

[John Oppenheimer]

On 07/02/2018 01:22 PM, w2bvh wrote:
> _XFil BW Hz)    MDS (dBm)
> _400  -125

Measured K2; 14 MHz with 400 Hz BW using XG3 and Fluke 87V (True RMS
with averaging mode). With full AF gain, the two -107 dBm / off voltages
were 322.3 mV and 12.5 mV, => -135.2 dB MDS

K2 sidetone pitch is 600 Hz.

AGC ON, 50 uV input sets one LED segment above S9

Using a new Rigol DG1023Z, set to 13.8 mVPP and a VNWA measured 73.78 dB
attenuator. 12.6 / 368.4 => -136.3 dB MDS. The 1023 accuracy is +-1mV,
or about +-0.65 dB.

John KN5L
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Re: [Elecraft] Working KH1

[Fred Jensen]

I know several of the on-island team and I'm not at all surprised they 
stuck with you for your Q.  Outstanding operators!


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 7/3/2018 1:25 PM, Carl Yaffey wrote:

I thought I’d never work Baker Island since I couldn’t hear them on any band. 
Suddenly there they were on 14023. Very weak.
Thanks to my good ol’ KS3, I could engage APF and hear them OK. Here’s how it 
went:
ME: K8NU
KH1: K8?
ME: K8NU
KH1: K8?
ME: K8NU K8NU
KH1: WAIT WAIT WAIT K8?
ME: K8NU K8NU
KH1: K8NU 599
ME: 73.

What an operator! He made everyone wait until he could copy me. Amazing.


Carl Yaffey  K8NU



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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Tommy]

  I do the same thing. I'll add that I am always at the controls during 
FT8 contacts. I do nothing automatic with it. I laugh at all the hate 
FT8 gets. I don't get it.


73!

Tom - KB2SMS


On 07/03/2018 05:32 PM, Carl Yaffey wrote:

On Jul 3, 2018, at 4:42 PM, Grant Youngman  wrote:


and don’t care to find out what the other guy’s name is or what he/she does 
when they aren’t punching at their own keyboard

As soon as I start an FT8 “iso”, I go to QRZ and look the person up.


Carl Yaffey  K8NU

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Re: [Elecraft] Working KH1

[GaryK9GS]

Yes..like raw meat to a starving wolf.


73,
Gary K9GS
 Original message From: Mike Flowers  
Date: 7/3/18  3:44 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Carl Yaffey  Cc: 
Elecraft Reflector  Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Working 
KH1 
Good job, Carl. 

They have great ops on the Baker Island team.  Once they get a piece of your 
callsign, they’ll usually get you in the log. 

-- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!"

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 1:25 PM, Carl Yaffey  wrote:
> 
> I thought I’d never work Baker Island since I couldn’t hear them on any band. 
> Suddenly there they were on 14023. Very weak.
> Thanks to my good ol’ KS3, I could engage APF and hear them OK. Here’s how it 
> went:
> ME: K8NU
> KH1: K8?
> ME: K8NU
> KH1: K8?
> ME: K8NU K8NU
> KH1: WAIT WAIT WAIT K8?
> ME: K8NU K8NU
> KH1: K8NU 599
> ME: 73.
> 
> What an operator! He made everyone wait until he could copy me. Amazing.
> 
> 
> Carl Yaffey  K8NU
> Recording studio.
> cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
> 614 268 6353, Columbus OH
> http://www.carl-yaffey.com
> http://www.grassahol.com
> http://www.bluesswing.com
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Bruce W2SE]

FT8 Hands-Off Ham Radio   ;)



On 03-Jul-18 15:36, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8:  “Given the level of 
automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead of ‘ham 
radio’.”

New contest category?

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[kq8m]

Mike, you hit the nail on the head. This is a mode that the big guns can't just 
overpower the little guy and be the first in and out. I bet it drives them nuts 
being relegated to the level of the small guns.

73
Tim, KQ8M
k...@kq8m.com


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of W0MU Mike Fatchett
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 16:25
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that 
would do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack 
the calls heard?  FT8 just allows them to complete 1 to 5 contacts at 
one time.  That to me is pretty amazing!There is still plenty of 
skill in working FT8 if the goal is to get in and get out quick just 
like any more.  Hey if you have all day to work someone chances are you 
will get them sooner or later.

The cool part about this and the most important part is this mode is 
allowing people with really marginally poor stations to be able to 
actually get on Ham Radio and work people and work DX!  It has to be 
exciting for them!

Try to put yourself in their shoes.  It is a whole new world!  We need 
more activity, more active hams and maybe FT8 will be a building block 
to get more people in.  I would hope this is a good thing!

W0MU


On 7/3/2018 2:10 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
> I have been using WSJT-X since before version 1.0 was made available.  I was 
> also an early adopter of JT9 and FT8.  I have enjoyed using JT65, JT9, and 
> FT8 for HF and 6 m QSO.  Using DXpedition mode to work KH1 was a different 
> experience.  I felt that the operator had been taken much too far "out of the 
> loop".   I'm glad I made more KH1 QSO using CW than with FT8 and I found them 
> much more satisfying.
>
> FT8 DXPedition mode is certainly not for everyone but if it was the only way 
> I could make a QSO with KH1 I'd have been glad to have it in my log.KH1 
> was DX 200 worked CW in 4 years.  That was nice and only the magic of 
> propagation was involved.
>
> 73,
> Andy k3wyc
>
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Bill Frantz]

Yes to both. I have taken advantage of the ability to receive, 
even with long dropouts, by turning off my transmissions for a 
few seconds to see if I'm on top of another station and 
therefore having more problems getting through. This ability 
also helps with noise bursts.


The QRM solution is inspired. If wsjt-x decodes a signal, it 
will back encode that signal and subtract encoded signal from 
the received signal. Frequently it can then decode a station on 
the same or a nearby frequency. These "second decode" stations 
are reported at the end of the decoding report.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 7/3/18 at 2:17 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote:


And I suspect FT8 has much better immunityto noise and QRM.


--
Bill Frantz| There are now so many exceptions to the
408-356-8506   | Fourth Amendment that it operates only by
www.pwpconsult.com | accident.  -  William Hugh Murray

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Carl Yaffey]

On Jul 3, 2018, at 4:42 PM, Grant Youngman  wrote:

> and don’t care to find out what the other guy’s name is or what he/she does 
> when they aren’t punching at their own keyboard

As soon as I start an FT8 “iso”, I go to QRZ and look the person up.


Carl Yaffey  K8NU
Recording studio.
cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[ANDY DURBIN]

"That is FT8.  There is no involvement once the contact starts."

That is only true is you choose to make it true.  In basic FT8 mode "auto 
sequence" and "Call 1st" are operator options which I sometimes choose to 
disable.  I also sometimes change my TX frequency in the middle of a QSO if I 
sense that I may not be being decoded because of QRM.

Except for the selection of the initial TX frequency I felt completely out of 
the loop in DXpedition mode.  I'm not saying it's a bad mode.  I'm not saying 
it shouldn't be used.  All I'm doing, as an experienced JT65, JT9 and FT8 
operator, is commenting on my experience.

73,
Andy k3wyc


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Re: [Elecraft] K2 a little deaf? FIXED!

[w2bvh]

Hi Don & John,

Thanks for the advice. The MDS problem is now apparently fixed! Before 
doing the signal tracing, I decided attend to a simple set of repairs on 
the K2 which I've put off for awhile. I changed the Ext Spkr jack on the 
back and the Headphones jack on the front (both  of which were starting 
to get unreliable). Also replace the AF Gain pot, which has been noisy 
for awhile (and with a loose shaft). After making the changes, just for 
giggles, I re-checked MDS using the same method as I used before (the 
one described in the XG3 manual). The results are: before: -125,  after 
-141.  Did measurements at other bandwidths and have similar offsets  
with the other bandwidth measurements done before the fixes.


The 8640 signal is audible now with a drive level of -140 dBm, which is 
good sanity check on the "fix".


I guess I was losing 16 dB of gain in the audio portion of the K2 
because of one of the replaced components.  I'm glad it worked out this 
way.


I figured you'd be interested in hearing the news And thanks again 
for your advice.


73, --Lenny W2BVH



On 7/2/2018 6:13 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Lenny,

Check the obvious - is the Receive Antenna (RANT) on?
Is transmit power full output?

If both are correct, you will have to go through the Receive Signal 
Tracing in the Troubleshooting Appendix of the manual.
If you have an oscilloscope with a 10X probe, you can use the HP8640B 
to drive the K2 receiver input.  Set the signal generator so you have 
an obviously measurable signal at the BNC jack.  The signal level 
should decrease only slightly through the T/R switch, but will 
decrease some through the BandPass filter.  The preamp will bring it 
back up as will the Post Mixer Amplifier.


If you can achieve enough signal to give you as much 'scope deflection 
as the listed "Expected" values, that will give you some guide for the 
signal levels along the receive path.
I can usually make a judgement about the relative levels as I progress 
through the receiver without consulting the receive chart, but then I 
have had a lot of practice.
Note that with the inclusion of the back to back diodes across the IF 
amplifier, the expected values after that point have changed - if you 
get to that point, you can temporarily remove one end of the diode pair.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/2/2018 2:22 PM, w2bvh wrote:

Thanks Don,

As you say, I also would expect the signal from the 8640B to be 
clearly audible at -140 dBm on the K2.


I took your advice checked the filter bandwidths. I used the old 
noise source I built when I originally built the K2 ( Tom Hammond 
design?) along with the filter measurement instructions from your web 
site, and the Spectrogram 5.17 program.  No changes were needed. The 
filters are centered on 550 Hz. So that is not causing the MDS 
problem. It was well worth doing to eliminate that as a possible cause.


The reply on the Elecraft reflector from KN5L was helpful for me to 
make more MDS measurements and help me validate the ones I made 
originally. I used the instructions that come with the XG3 manual to 
set up the K2 and calculate the MDS. I used the 8640B as the signal 
source.  The results of those measurements are:


_XFil BW Hz)    MDS (dBm)
_400  -125
700  -123
1500    -121.5

So these results are actually a couple of dB WORSE (at the same 
bandwidth)  than the ones I originally got (e.g. the ones from my 
original email to the reflector a couple of days ago).


Any additional advice you may have would be greatly appreciated. I 
don't know if you have fixed this type of problem before, but if you 
have, maybe I should be mailing it off to you to fix it?


I did a qrp-qrp qso with an F5  last night on 40M, but it was pulling 
teeth to copy him. Another 1 1/2 s-units (or so) of signal would have 
been very welcome!


Please let me know either way.

73 & happy 4th,
--Lenny W2BVH

ps - as for bringing the siggen to the K2  or vice versa, the siggen 
had to be upstairs in the shack for antenna measurements (can't bring 
the antenna connection down to the basement ;-). MDS measurement was 
an afterthought -- which I'm glad I did.





On 7/1/2018 11:55 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Lenny,

Are your IF filters aligned so a 550Hz signal is within the passband.
With the K2, simply setting STP for 550 Hz will not do it, you must 
do CAL FIL to make 550Hz appear well within the receive passband.


A properly tuned K2 will typically have a good response to a -140dBm 
signal from the HP8640B.


It is easier to take the K2 to the signal generator than to lug that 
heavy signal generator to the hamshack!


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/1/2018 4:35 PM, w2bvh wrote:
I dragged my HP8640B out of the "lab" (basement) to the second 
floor shack to do some antenna testing about a week ago. Before 
dragging this 50 lb instrument back down two flights of stairs I 
decided to do a quick MDS 

Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Jim Brown]

On 7/3/2018 2:06 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
The RTTY difference is that they come back 


In my experience, RTTY in a DX pileup is a pretty slow and frustrating 
process for both the DX and the caller. It takes a very skilled op to 
average 60 Qs/hour; a good CW op can at least double that. And I suspect 
FT8 has much better immunityto noise and QRM.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Wes Stewart]

In a message to this group back in February I wrote:

   Quoting G4WJS: "For FT8 the net effect is that
   up to about 5 seconds of a message may be missing yet still
   be decoded. The amount missing can be either a truncation or
   parts of the message below the decoding threshold. The FT8
   message is structured with sync symbols at the start, middle
   and end so missing the start or end may have less impact
   than missing other parts since mostly sync symbols may be
   lost and they contain no message information."

Hence, I dubbed the mode, "Imaginary"  since it hears things that aren't there.

Wes  N7WS

On 7/3/2018 12:36 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8:  “Given the level of 
automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead of ‘ham 
radio’.”

New contest category?

Wayne
N6KR


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Jim Brown]

On 7/3/2018 1:59 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

wo of my KH1 FT8 QSO were completed after I had given up and turned off TX 
Enable.  Although I was still in the shack I had no involvement in completing 
the QSO.  I was just a spectator.  That is very different from the level of 
interaction required to complete a QSO in CW, Phone, or RTTY.


Let's not forget that ham radio is a TECHNICAL hobby. While I've worked 
hard to improve my operating skills, transmitter, antenna, feedline, 
understanding propagation, working to find and kill receive noise are 
also part of it. And don't discount operator skill with WSJT modes -- 
knowing when to call, where to place yourself in the frequency window, 
all are things we need to learn.


If I can work expeditions with FT8, I'll find better things to do with 
my time than sitting in a pileup for hours with guys tuning up or 
calling on top of the DX, which then brings out the childish "cops" 
cursing them and "yelling UP idiot."


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Bill Frantz]

I can't resist.

My accomplishments: I have a DXCC with 150+ LotW confirmed 
entities. I have over 100 entities on both digital and CW, less 
on voice. I have a triple play WAS. I have 5 contacts with 
KH1/KH7Z in their log, 2 CW, 2 FT8, and 1 SSB. (I'm missing 
RTTY.) I'm active in ARES/RACES, and like to rag chew, either on 
the local repeaters, or with PSK31. I'm trying to be a well 
rounded ham.


I look at FT8 as another step in station automation.

Back when I started, in the early 1960s, it was normal to have 
separate transmitters and receivers. Frequently people would 
have to manually switch the antenna between the two. Now we have 
full break in with CW. That's an advance in station automation.


We used to keep logs on paper, now many of us keep them on a 
computer reducing the chance for error in details like frequency 
and time. FT8 carries it a step further by building a log entry 
which includes the call, grid and signal reports. That's an 
advance in station automation.


We used to scan the bands by turning the big knob to locate 
other stations. Now we have spotting networks and panadapters. 
That's an advance in station automation.


When one station wanted to call another, it had to transmit for 
a long enough time so the other station could find him. CQs were 
long for the same reason. Now we can change to his listening 
frequency and make a call. Many people use this technique for 
working DX pileups. FT8 makes it even more automatic by 
highlighting all messages that include your call sign. That's an 
advance in station automation.


Where do I come down in all of this? I'm all over the place. In 
CW contests, I operate unassisted because I want to improve my 
CW skills, and getting the calls from a spot or decoder doesn't 
help me toward this goal. When working as part of a contest 
team, I'm happy using everything that is legal for our entry 
category. When trying to work rare DX, I'm quite happy running 
power. I just want to put out a clean signal and not be too 
obnoxious to other hams.


I've heard a lot of comment about various contest rules being 
too automated or requiring facilities that are not available to 
everyone. For example contests that provide real-time score 
tracking. Here I think we should let 1000 flowers bloom. Sure, 
enjoy Straight Key Night (SKN) and bring out your boat anchor 
and old paper log book. But also have contests where contesters 
and an audience can keep track of the scores in real time. Some 
people can't do CW and sit SKN out. Others may not have the 
Internet connectivity needed for the real-time contest. In the 
old days, many hams did not have a Teletype machine for RTTY 
contests and had to forgo RTTY contacts.


Do what you enjoy. Ham radio is a very big tent.

73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| Re: Computer reliability, performance, and security:
408-356-8506   | The guy who *is* wearing a parachute is 
*not* the

www.pwpconsult.com | first to reach the ground.  - Terence Kelly

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

That is FT8.  There is no involvement once the contact starts. That is 
the beauty of it.    The automation is no legal in the USA and many 
other places but I doubt it will be addressed much like excessive 
power.  It is never addressed.  Do it right.  Don't worry about others.  
Have fun.


The RTTY difference is that they come back to me and I moved, they can't 
find me, they waste more time sending w0mu 599 over and over and over 
again.  That is not better in my book.  If have not left.  I push one 
other button to make a contact.  Seems pretty similar to me.


To each their own.

W0MU


On 7/3/2018 2:59 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

"How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that  would do 
essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack  the calls heard?"

The, in my opinion huge, difference is that FT8 DXpedition mode does not even 
require the operator to be in the shack to complete the QSO.  All it takes is 
to start auto TX of your grid and then walk away.  As long as your call gets on 
the stack before your watchdog times out (assuming you have not defeated it) 
then the rest is automatic, including waking up your TX Enable if it had timed 
out.

Two of my KH1 FT8 QSO were completed after I had given up and turned off TX 
Enable.  Although I was still in the shack I had no involvement in completing 
the QSO.  I was just a spectator.  That is very different from the level of 
interaction required to complete a QSO in CW, Phone, or RTTY.

I have no opinion on the experience of the DXpedition operator.  Never been one 
and not likely to be one.

73,
Andy k3wyc


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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Wayne Burdick]

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 1:59 PM, ANDY DURBIN  wrote:
> 
> "How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that  
> would do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack  the 
> calls heard?"
> 
> The, in my opinion huge, difference is that FT8 DXpedition mode does not even 
> require the operator to be in the shack to complete the QSO.  All it takes is 
> to start auto TX of your grid and then walk away.  As long as your call gets 
> on the stack before your watchdog times out (assuming you have not defeated 
> it) then the rest is automatic, including waking up your TX Enable if it had 
> timed out.
> 
> Two of my KH1 FT8 QSO were completed after I had given up and turned off TX 
> Enable.  Although I was still in the shack I had no involvement in completing 
> the QSO.  I was just a spectator.  That is very different from the level of 
> interaction required to complete a QSO in CW, Phone, or RTTY.


I believe that’s what led to the “magic” comment in the overheard discussion. 
That, in fact, this sort of operation is in a class of its own.

Wayne


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[Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[ANDY DURBIN]

"How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that  would 
do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack  the calls 
heard?"

The, in my opinion huge, difference is that FT8 DXpedition mode does not even 
require the operator to be in the shack to complete the QSO.  All it takes is 
to start auto TX of your grid and then walk away.  As long as your call gets on 
the stack before your watchdog times out (assuming you have not defeated it) 
then the rest is automatic, including waking up your TX Enable if it had timed 
out.

Two of my KH1 FT8 QSO were completed after I had given up and turned off TX 
Enable.  Although I was still in the shack I had no involvement in completing 
the QSO.  I was just a spectator.  That is very different from the level of 
interaction required to complete a QSO in CW, Phone, or RTTY.

I have no opinion on the experience of the DXpedition operator.  Never been one 
and not likely to be one.

73,
Andy k3wyc


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Re: [Elecraft] Working KH1

[Mike Flowers]

Good job, Carl. 

They have great ops on the Baker Island team.  Once they get a piece of your 
callsign, they’ll usually get you in the log. 

-- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!"

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 1:25 PM, Carl Yaffey  wrote:
> 
> I thought I’d never work Baker Island since I couldn’t hear them on any band. 
> Suddenly there they were on 14023. Very weak.
> Thanks to my good ol’ KS3, I could engage APF and hear them OK. Here’s how it 
> went:
> ME: K8NU
> KH1: K8?
> ME: K8NU
> KH1: K8?
> ME: K8NU K8NU
> KH1: WAIT WAIT WAIT K8?
> ME: K8NU K8NU
> KH1: K8NU 599
> ME: 73.
> 
> What an operator! He made everyone wait until he could copy me. Amazing.
> 
> 
> Carl Yaffey  K8NU
> Recording studio.
> cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
> 614 268 6353, Columbus OH
> http://www.carl-yaffey.com
> http://www.grassahol.com
> http://www.bluesswing.com
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Grant Youngman]

FT8 is great technology.   Maybe the Fox/Hound mode is, too.  Personally, I got 
bored with it after about a week and moved on.  Certainly, it’s the cat’s meow 
if all you care about is logging someone, somewhere, without doing any work, 
other than making sure you have the right Windows drivers installed and the 
right boxes checked, and don’t care to find out what the other guy’s name is or 
what he/she does when they aren’t punching at their own keyboard (well, you 
don’t even have to do THAT very often).   Other than that, and reading all the 
issues people have with it and their machines/software they know nothing about 
(while blaming their radio) on the lists — meh.

You can use your radio as just one more peripheral if you want.  Good for you.  
Enjoy.  I’ll be elsewhere on the bands.
 
I’m old, going on 60 years licensed … and have a curmudgeonly point of view, no 
doubt.  But …  I spent my entire working life doing many innovative things with 
computers and software and automation in general.  I’ve never used my radio as 
just one more Windows peripheral … and won’t.  It isn’t that hard to avoid it … 
and it’s a whole lot more fun.

Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 4:10 PM, ANDY DURBIN  wrote:
> 
> I have been using WSJT-X since before version 1.0 was made available.  I was 
> also an early adopter of JT9 and FT8.  I have enjoyed using JT65, JT9, and 
> FT8 for HF and 6 m QSO.  Using DXpedition mode to work KH1 was a different 
> experience.  I felt that the operator had been taken much too far "out of the 
> loop".   I'm glad I made more KH1 QSO using CW than with FT8 and I found them 
> much more satisfying.
> 
> FT8 DXPedition mode is certainly not for everyone but if it was the only way 
> I could make a QSO with KH1 I'd have been glad to have it in my log.KH1 
> was DX 200 worked CW in 4 years.  That was nice and only the magic of 
> propagation was involved.

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Mike Flowers]

I agree.  

We have a Club member who lives in a townhouse and who became a ham because 
their Dad was a ham. 

This ham literally has 100W and a wire dipole, only half of which is outside - 
and is in the log at KH1/KH7Z with a 20M FT8 QSO. 

Amateur Radio is a technological pursuit.   The convergence of radio, computer 
and software technologies to create the digi-modes was probably inevitable.  

If FT8 helps interest more young people in Amateur Radio, I’m all for it. 

-- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!"

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 1:24 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett  wrote:
> 
> How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that would 
> do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack the calls 
> heard?  FT8 just allows them to complete 1 to 5 contacts at one time.  That 
> to me is pretty amazing!There is still plenty of skill in working FT8 if 
> the goal is to get in and get out quick just like any more.  Hey if you have 
> all day to work someone chances are you will get them sooner or later.
> 
> The cool part about this and the most important part is this mode is allowing 
> people with really marginally poor stations to be able to actually get on Ham 
> Radio and work people and work DX!  It has to be exciting for them!
> 
> Try to put yourself in their shoes.  It is a whole new world!  We need more 
> activity, more active hams and maybe FT8 will be a building block to get more 
> people in.  I would hope this is a good thing!
> 
> W0MU
> 
> 
>> On 7/3/2018 2:10 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
>> I have been using WSJT-X since before version 1.0 was made available.  I was 
>> also an early adopter of JT9 and FT8.  I have enjoyed using JT65, JT9, and 
>> FT8 for HF and 6 m QSO.  Using DXpedition mode to work KH1 was a different 
>> experience.  I felt that the operator had been taken much too far "out of 
>> the loop".   I'm glad I made more KH1 QSO using CW than with FT8 and I found 
>> them much more satisfying.
>> 
>> FT8 DXPedition mode is certainly not for everyone but if it was the only way 
>> I could make a QSO with KH1 I'd have been glad to have it in my log.KH1 
>> was DX 200 worked CW in 4 years.  That was nice and only the magic of 
>> propagation was involved.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Andy k3wyc
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Rick WA6NHC]

Actually if conditions allow, FT8 (Fox) can 'converse' with ten stations 
at once (5 audio streams at a cost of lower signal strength) raising the 
Q rate and efficiency of the opening(s).  The primary differences from 
RTTY is that it's narrower, better utilizing the band space; it can 
easily work below the noise floor (not a dream of a chance with RTTY) 
and that FT8 is simpler for most folks than RTTY (point, click, connect).


I score it as semi-automatic since an operator must still manage it; the 
signal strengths are more accurate (meaning honest) than the eternal 
'599' (after ten retries) and the largest bonus is that it keeps 
interest alive in the bottom of the cycle AND allows meager stations to 
have an improved shot at improving their DX standings.  It's a breath of 
fresh air to reinvigorate ham radio at some level.


Rick nhc


On 7/3/2018 1:24 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that 
would do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and 
stack the calls heard?  FT8 just allows them to complete 1 to 5 
contacts at one time.  That to me is pretty amazing!    There is still 
plenty of skill in working FT8 if the goal is to get in and get out 
quick just like any more.  Hey if you have all day to work someone 
chances are you will get them sooner or later.


The cool part about this and the most important part is this mode is 
allowing people with really marginally poor stations to be able to 
actually get on Ham Radio and work people and work DX!  It has to be 
exciting for them!


Try to put yourself in their shoes.  It is a whole new world!  We need 
more activity, more active hams and maybe FT8 will be a building block 
to get more people in.  I would hope this is a good thing!


W0MU


On 7/3/2018 2:10 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
I have been using WSJT-X since before version 1.0 was made 
available.  I was also an early adopter of JT9 and FT8.  I have 
enjoyed using JT65, JT9, and FT8 for HF and 6 m QSO.  Using 
DXpedition mode to work KH1 was a different experience.  I felt that 
the operator had been taken much too far "out of the loop".   I'm 
glad I made more KH1 QSO using CW than with FT8 and I found them much 
more satisfying.


FT8 DXPedition mode is certainly not for everyone but if it was the 
only way I could make a QSO with KH1 I'd have been glad to have it in 
my log.    KH1 was DX 200 worked CW in 4 years.  That was nice and 
only the magic of propagation was involved.


73,
Andy k3wyc

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[Elecraft] K2 encoder subassembly issue

[Don Schroder]

Hi folks!

Had another whoopsie with my K2 Serial #7818. Number 4 wire, that attaches the 
encoder subassembly to the front panel, had a soldering pad disintegrate. I 
found this when I
was testing, and saw that the encoder was not changing the frequency up or 
down. I am assuming that the wire not being soldered would cause the encoder to 
fail the test.

I’ve had my kit together and apart multiple times now. I may have caused the 
malfunction by separating the boards too many times? Regardless, I’ve contacted 
Elecraft Parts
and requested a new encoder subassembly PCB. Hope I can get just the board and 
not have to buy a whole subassembly!

Other than that issue, I’m thrilled with my kit, and excited to continue 
populating the RF board. Do you think I should continue, or should I wait for 
the new PCB and complete
the testing before continuing? I guess that is one of those “Are we there, 
yet?” questions!

Don,KE0PVQ

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Carl Yaffey]

If you haven’t tried FT8, you might be surprised at the skill you’ll need to 
use if effectively. It is NOT just automatic.
73, K8NU


Carl Yaffey  K8NU
Recording studio.
cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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[Elecraft] Working KH1

[Carl Yaffey]

I thought I’d never work Baker Island since I couldn’t hear them on any band. 
Suddenly there they were on 14023. Very weak.
Thanks to my good ol’ KS3, I could engage APF and hear them OK. Here’s how it 
went:
ME: K8NU
KH1: K8?
ME: K8NU
KH1: K8?
ME: K8NU K8NU
KH1: WAIT WAIT WAIT K8?
ME: K8NU K8NU
KH1: K8NU 599
ME: 73.

What an operator! He made everyone wait until he could copy me. Amazing.


Carl Yaffey  K8NU
Recording studio.
cyaffeyno_s...@gmail.com 
614 268 6353, Columbus OH
http://www.carl-yaffey.com
http://www.grassahol.com
http://www.bluesswing.com

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[W0MU Mike Fatchett]

How is it any different than the RTTY setups used for DXpeditions that 
would do essentially the same thing, listen over a wide range and stack 
the calls heard?  FT8 just allows them to complete 1 to 5 contacts at 
one time.  That to me is pretty amazing!    There is still plenty of 
skill in working FT8 if the goal is to get in and get out quick just 
like any more.  Hey if you have all day to work someone chances are you 
will get them sooner or later.


The cool part about this and the most important part is this mode is 
allowing people with really marginally poor stations to be able to 
actually get on Ham Radio and work people and work DX!  It has to be 
exciting for them!


Try to put yourself in their shoes.  It is a whole new world!  We need 
more activity, more active hams and maybe FT8 will be a building block 
to get more people in.  I would hope this is a good thing!


W0MU


On 7/3/2018 2:10 PM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

I have been using WSJT-X since before version 1.0 was made available.  I was also an 
early adopter of JT9 and FT8.  I have enjoyed using JT65, JT9, and FT8 for HF and 6 m 
QSO.  Using DXpedition mode to work KH1 was a different experience.  I felt that the 
operator had been taken much too far "out of the loop".   I'm glad I made more 
KH1 QSO using CW than with FT8 and I found them much more satisfying.

FT8 DXPedition mode is certainly not for everyone but if it was the only way I 
could make a QSO with KH1 I'd have been glad to have it in my log.    KH1 was 
DX 200 worked CW in 4 years.  That was nice and only the magic of propagation 
was involved.

73,
Andy k3wyc

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[Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[ANDY DURBIN]

I have been using WSJT-X since before version 1.0 was made available.  I was 
also an early adopter of JT9 and FT8.  I have enjoyed using JT65, JT9, and FT8 
for HF and 6 m QSO.  Using DXpedition mode to work KH1 was a different 
experience.  I felt that the operator had been taken much too far "out of the 
loop".   I'm glad I made more KH1 QSO using CW than with FT8 and I found them 
much more satisfying.

FT8 DXPedition mode is certainly not for everyone but if it was the only way I 
could make a QSO with KH1 I'd have been glad to have it in my log.    KH1 was 
DX 200 worked CW in 4 years.  That was nice and only the magic of propagation 
was involved.

73,
Andy k3wyc

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Carl Jón Denbow]

After being a ham since 1981, and passing the CW test only because I was good 
at test-taking and it was a multiple choice test, I’m now learning CW all over 
again via LCWO.net and the Koch Method.  I’m now about halfway through and I’m 
doing better than I could have ever imagined.  I’m not going to ever be a very 
fast CW operator, and sending will be a whole new challenge, as my manual 
dexterity and sense of rhythm are not very good, but I do see the light at the 
end of the CW tunnel, which for me has been a real challenge.  And, I also do 
FT8.  In fact, I got WAS with FT8 in only about one month.  I wasn’t planning 
on an FT8 WAS endorsement, but when I noticed that I had 35 states without even 
trying, I thought I might was well go for it.  So, in my case, FT8 has killed 
CW interest at all, in fact, it might have played a small part in increasing my 
interest.  Maybe one day, I can get WAS CW endorsement.  That would be a real 
accomplishment for me.

73,

Carl
N8VZ

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> The last Q in the FAQ at the end of Dr. Joe Taylor's instructions for use of 
> the DXpedition ["Fox and Hound"] mode of FT8 is:
> 
> "Are you trying to kill CW?"
> 
> If he is trying to kill CW, listening on 14023 and up suggests that he is 
> failing.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
>> On 7/3/2018 12:36 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8:  “Given the level 
>> of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead 
>> of ‘ham radio’.”
>> 
>> New contest category?
>> 
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Grant Youngman]

I think so.  

I still have a beating heart for my first “personal computer”.  For it’s time  
(late 50’s to early 60’s) it was a very smart and very fast, fully 
asynchronous, about 1 Mhz, machine with around 1000+ vacuum tubes, and one of 
the earliest machines (if not THE earliest) with dynamic memory allocation.  
I’m sure the Apple watch could easily outdo it now, just to display the time.

I’d bet there will at some point be a version of the  “Teensy” that will be 
more than capable of running a contest without operator intervention, maybe 
with a link to Watson .. or not.

There certainly ought to be a separate category.  At least for the few of us 
old and getting older curmudgeons left that still use pen and paper logging and 
a sideswiper key (or heaven forbid — AM).  And that actually use the knobs on 
our radios to tune … :-) :-)

One of these days I’m  going to get my Digital Group Z-80 out  of the box, 
replace the one missing chip on the CPU board, and threaten everyone :-)
 
Grant NQ5T
K3 #2091, KX3 #8342
SKCC #18434

> On Jul 3, 2018, at 3:36 PM, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com [KX3] 
>  wrote:
> 
> Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8: “Given the level of 
> automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead of 
> ‘ham radio’.”
> 
> New contest category?
> 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Wayne Burdick]

Sure was a lot of CW activity on Sunday. Great fun

Wayne


> On Jul 3, 2018, at 12:48 PM, Fred Jensen  wrote:
> 
> The last Q in the FAQ at the end of Dr. Joe Taylor's instructions for use of 
> the DXpedition ["Fox and Hound"] mode of FT8 is:
> 
> "Are you trying to kill CW?"
> 
> If he is trying to kill CW, listening on 14023 and up suggests that he is 
> failing.
> 
> 73,
> 
> Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
> Sparks NV DM09dn
> Washoe County
> 
> On 7/3/2018 12:36 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8:  “Given the level 
>> of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead 
>> of ‘ham radio’.”
>> 
>> New contest category?
>> 
>> Wayne
>> N6KR
>> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Fred Jensen]

The last Q in the FAQ at the end of Dr. Joe Taylor's instructions for 
use of the DXpedition ["Fox and Hound"] mode of FT8 is:


"Are you trying to kill CW?"

If he is trying to kill CW, listening on 14023 and up suggests that he 
is failing.


73,

Fred ["Skip"] K6DGW
Sparks NV DM09dn
Washoe County

On 7/3/2018 12:36 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8:  “Given the level of 
automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead of ‘ham 
radio’.”

New contest category?

Wayne
N6KR



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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[MIKE W1SRR]

I had a QSO with a buddy of mine who was using his FT-817 on 5 watts.
Where as I couldn't hear him on 40m SSB (phone), meanwhile I had him at -13
FT8.  I'm 1,200 miles due south of him. I was -01 with 20w.  While I don't
think its magical I do think its a nice feature with poor conditions..

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018 at 3:36 PM, Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com [KX3] <
kx3-nore...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8: “Given the level
> of automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead
> of ‘ham radio’.”
>
> New contest category?
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
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[Elecraft] FT8: "Magic radio"?

[Wayne Burdick]

Overheard yesterday on 40 meter SSB, in reference to FT8:  “Given the level of 
automation and whatnot, maybe they should call it ‘magic radio’ instead of ‘ham 
radio’.”

New contest category?

Wayne
N6KR


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[Elecraft] K3S / IC-7610 comparison table

[Wayne Burdick]

In response to many questions fielded by our sales and support staff we’ve put 
together a comparison of the K3S vs. the IC-7610. 

While all rigs have certain strengths, the K3S has a combination of 
performance, features, and form factor that provide unique benefits to the 
operator, especially those who may encounter high-signal conditions or require 
portability (or both, as in the case of Field Day, DXpeditions, etc.).

The comparison table is in draft form and will continue to evolve, so we’re not 
posting it on our website just yet. However, we’ll be happy to send the current 
edition on request to anyone actively weighing the tradeoffs between the K3S 
and other transceivers.

Please email me directly if you’re interested. I’ll be happy to expand on 
information presented, whether theoretical or functional. No doubt these 
discussions will help us refine the table.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

[Nr4c]

Tap the button left if the Ant LEDs to cycle thru the antennas. 

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill


> On Jul 3, 2018, at 11:52 AM, ANDY DURBIN  wrote:
> 
> I have a new KAT500 and am learning how to use it.  I have set up the antenna 
> switching table in the expectation that the table will be followed when I'm 
> in Automatic mode.  However, I find that the antenna switching table is also 
> in effect when I'm in Manual mode.  I cannot manually select the antenna I 
> wish to connect because my Manual selection is overridden by the table 
> selection appropriate for the last transmitted frequency.
> 
> 
> Why doesn't Manual mode give me full manual control?  Why can't I select the 
> antenna I want to receive on without transmitting first?  Am I doing 
> something wrong or is this an intentional limitation of the firmware design.
> 
> 
> Thanks and 73,
> 
> Andy k3wyc
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[Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

[ANDY DURBIN]

I've experimented more with the available selections but I still don't see why 
my KAT500 does what is does.

Here is a specific example of a case that I don't understand:


My configuration for 40 is Enabled 2 and 3.  Preferred 2

My configuration for 20 is Enabled 1 and 3.  Preferred 1


I select Auto and TX on 40 - Ant 2 is selected automatically and only 2 and 3 
are manually selectable (all as expected)

I select Ant 2 and then select Bypass

I TX on 20 - Ant 2 remains selected and high SWR is shown

I attempt to manually select Ant 1 but only 2 and 3 are selectable

I select Auto and Ant 1 is auto selected.  Now Ant 1 and Ant 3 are manually 
selectable.


When in Bypass, either the Antenna selection should not be inhibited by the 
selection table, or it should be forced to match the selection table.  What I 
see is that is forced to mismatch what's in the selection table.


Would someone at Elecraft please try to duplicate this test sequence and 
explain why it should work this way.  (I don't have a K3 and there is no 
frequency input to the KAT500 except for RF).


Thanks and 73,

Andy k3wyc


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Re: [Elecraft] Adapter for use between iPhone headset and a KX2/KX3

[Wayne Burdick]

The numeric value is a relative indication generated by the math we use in our 
algorithm; it’s not actually an attempt to quantify compression in dB. Multiple 
factors including power level, ALC level, and mic gain setting are taken into 
account. I’ll dig up the full details of the implementation when I get a 
chance. 

Meanwhile (anecdotally): at any setting the compression is very clean, and at 
the high end it greatly increases the “punchiness” of the signal.

Wayne
N6KR


> On Jul 3, 2018, at 10:14 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 7/2/2018 5:23 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>> I generally leave TX CMP at 20, but even at 30, the audio is very clean. The 
>> extra punch can help with QRP and/or small antennas.
> 
> Hi Wayne,
> 
> You're looking at the wrong thing to set compression, because the numeric 
> value doesn't take the mic sensitivity into account. Rather, we should be 
> looking at the indicated gain reduction on audio peaks, and 10 dB is a good 
> objective.
> 
> As an audio pro, my advice is 1) set TXEQ so that you're not wasting power 
> transmitting low frequency speech sounds (max cut for the first three bands, 
> 6 dB cut for the fourth)  2) Set CMP for the indicated value of gain 
> reduction  3) Get some signal reports from a good listener. This combination 
> results in about 13 dB of increased talk power (3 dB for the EQ, 10 for CMP).
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KPA500 Fan Question

[Jim Brown]

On 7/3/2018 6:24 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
In running my KPA500 on FT-8 mode at about 400 watts output, what is 
the recommended setting for Fan CTL?    I usually keep it in NORmal 
but have tried other settings. 


Nearly all of my FT8 operation is on 6M, where the KPA500 is least 
efficient, and where my antenna looks like about 1.5:1 in the shack. I'm 
running meteor scatter and weak signal work, which means I'm 
transmitting on almost every cycle. To keep TEMP relatively low, I set 
the fan to either max speed or one step down. Into a different antenna 
on FD, the same amp ran significantly cooler. Using an LP100A power 
meter, I get at least 500W out on 6M, sometimes as much as 550W.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Adapter for use between iPhone headset and a KX2/KX3

[Jim Brown]

On 7/2/2018 5:23 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

I generally leave TX CMP at 20, but even at 30, the audio is very clean. The 
extra punch can help with QRP and/or small antennas.


Hi Wayne,

You're looking at the wrong thing to set compression, because the 
numeric value doesn't take the mic sensitivity into account. Rather, we 
should be looking at the indicated gain reduction on audio peaks, and 10 
dB is a good objective.


As an audio pro, my advice is 1) set TXEQ so that you're not wasting 
power transmitting low frequency speech sounds (max cut for the first 
three bands, 6 dB cut for the fourth)  2) Set CMP for the indicated 
value of gain reduction  3) Get some signal reports from a good 
listener. This combination results in about 13 dB of increased talk 
power (3 dB for the EQ, 10 for CMP).


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

[Rick WA6NHC]

Correct antenna selection is controlled by setting up the tuner using 
the utility program.  Each band can select up to three antennas to use.  
One of the options is 'Last Used'.  That may apply to your station.


Antenna selection cannot be determined without using the utility.

If your antennas are multiband, the tuner can be taught which antenna on 
which band(s).


If the tuner is not programmed for a specific antenna on a given band, 
you cannot override it from the front panel, this is logical and 
protects from accidental choices.


Once you have the selection correctly set (SAVE) you can 'teach' the 
tuner on each antenna on each band segment, per the manual. It will 
remember (use save in the utility).


The time you take to correctly program the tuner saves you hours of 
grief later.  It's time WELL spent.  Then leave the tuner set in manual 
mode so it doesn't attempt retuning if something occurs during use (a 
branch brushing a wire, an unfortunate bird action).


I DO suggest that you (after complete setup)  at least glance over to 
the SWR LED display during operation to ensure things are as you expect, 
even after some time of successful use.


73,
Rick wa6nhc


On 7/3/2018 9:39 AM, Dennis Moore wrote:
Manual/Automatic is not used for overriding antenna selection, it 
turns on or off the automatic initiation of a tune cycle when high SWR 
is detected for the antenna that is currently selected. Many users 
will tune each of their antennas on separate bands using automatic 
then switch it to manual so that it doesn't attempt to retune that 
antenna again.


73, Dennis NJ6G


On 7/3/2018 08:52, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
I have a new KAT500 and am learning how to use it.  I have set up the 
antenna switching table in the expectation that the table will be 
followed when I'm in Automatic mode.  However, I find that the 
antenna switching table is also in effect when I'm in Manual mode.  I 
cannot manually select the antenna I wish to connect because my 
Manual selection is overridden by the table selection appropriate for 
the last transmitted frequency.



Why doesn't Manual mode give me full manual control?  Why can't I 
select the antenna I want to receive on without transmitting first?  
Am I doing something wrong or is this an intentional limitation of 
the firmware design.



Thanks and 73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual

[Ken G Kopp]

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 10:40 Ken G Kopp  wrote:

> Also check KE7X website for his manuals covering Elecraft
>
> 73!
>
> K0PP
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 10:36 John Hiatt  wrote:
>
>> They have replacement manuals on the order page for the K3S.  I don't see
>> one listed for the KX3, but I'm sure they would sell you one if you call
>> the sales department.
>> http://www.elecraft.com/how_to_contact_elecraft.htm
>>
>>
>> John,
>> KC7DRI
>>
>> 
>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
>> on behalf of Ronnie Hull 
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 5:38 AM
>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual
>>
>>
>> I just purchased a KX3 from the original owner. It did NOT come with the
>> manual. Does Elecraft sell the original Manuals? I am NOT interested in
>> downloading the .PDF
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> W5SUM
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> __
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual

[Ken G Kopp]

Also check KE7X website for his manuals covering Elecraft

73!

K0PP

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 10:36 John Hiatt  wrote:

> They have replacement manuals on the order page for the K3S.  I don't see
> one listed for the KX3, but I'm sure they would sell you one if you call
> the sales department.  http://www.elecraft.com/how_to_contact_elecraft.htm
>
>
> John,
> KC7DRI
>
> 
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> on behalf of Ronnie Hull 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 5:38 AM
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual
>
>
> I just purchased a KX3 from the original owner. It did NOT come with the
> manual. Does Elecraft sell the original Manuals? I am NOT interested in
> downloading the .PDF
>
> Thanks
>
> W5SUM
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

[Dennis Moore]

Manual/Automatic is not used for overriding antenna selection, it turns 
on or off the automatic initiation of a tune cycle when high SWR is 
detected for the antenna that is currently selected. Many users will 
tune each of their antennas on separate bands using automatic then 
switch it to manual so that it doesn't attempt to retune that antenna 
again.


73, Dennis NJ6G


On 7/3/2018 08:52, ANDY DURBIN wrote:

I have a new KAT500 and am learning how to use it.  I have set up the antenna 
switching table in the expectation that the table will be followed when I'm in 
Automatic mode.  However, I find that the antenna switching table is also in 
effect when I'm in Manual mode.  I cannot manually select the antenna I wish to 
connect because my Manual selection is overridden by the table selection 
appropriate for the last transmitted frequency.


Why doesn't Manual mode give me full manual control?  Why can't I select the 
antenna I want to receive on without transmitting first?  Am I doing something 
wrong or is this an intentional limitation of the firmware design.


Thanks and 73,

Andy k3wyc
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual

[John Hiatt]

They have replacement manuals on the order page for the K3S.  I don't see one 
listed for the KX3, but I'm sure they would sell you one if you call the sales 
department.  http://www.elecraft.com/how_to_contact_elecraft.htm


John,
KC7DRI


From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net  on 
behalf of Ronnie Hull 
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2018 5:38 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual


I just purchased a KX3 from the original owner. It did NOT come with the 
manual. Does Elecraft sell the original Manuals? I am NOT interested in 
downloading the .PDF

Thanks

W5SUM

Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] KAT500 antenna selection

[ANDY DURBIN]

I have a new KAT500 and am learning how to use it.  I have set up the antenna 
switching table in the expectation that the table will be followed when I'm in 
Automatic mode.  However, I find that the antenna switching table is also in 
effect when I'm in Manual mode.  I cannot manually select the antenna I wish to 
connect because my Manual selection is overridden by the table selection 
appropriate for the last transmitted frequency.


Why doesn't Manual mode give me full manual control?  Why can't I select the 
antenna I want to receive on without transmitting first?  Am I doing something 
wrong or is this an intentional limitation of the firmware design.


Thanks and 73,

Andy k3wyc
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[Elecraft] KPA500 Fan Question

[j...@kk9a.com]

I have never been on FT8 mode and I rarely use my KPA500 so take this with
a grain of salt. I would set the fan to a speed that provides some air
flow without being annoying. Perhaps speed 2 or 3, if I recall correctly.
This should at least delay it turning on the noisier higher speed speed
fan and may minimize some of the cool down clicking.

John KK9A


from: Bob McGraw K4TAX
date: Tue Jul 3 09:24:13 EDT 2018

In running my KPA500 on FT-8 mode at about 400 watts output, what is the
recommended setting for Fan CTL?I usually keep it in NORmal but have
tried other settings.  I watch the TEMP and see that it gets above
65ºC.   The fan speed increments up and down as the temperature changes
accordingly.  All appears norms.But, do you find setting the Fan CTL
to some value is more efficient in regard to cooling?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

73
Bob, K4TAX

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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual

[Rich]

I agree, mine are full of notes and yellow highlights.

Rich


On 7/3/2018 9:54 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:

I download all the Elecraft manuals and print them on 3-hole paper 
(pre-punched) and then keep them in a binder.  This way, I can add notes here 
and there in the right spot merely by inserting another 3-hole punched paper or 
punching printed e-mails or something myself.

I think this is the absolute best way to manage the information you will 
collect over the years on different things like suggested settings for 
this-and-that and so on.

73, phil, K7PEH



On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:49 AM, Rich  wrote:

If they do not sell it,  You could download the PDF and take it to a Kinkos and 
have them print it.

Rich


On 7/3/2018 9:43 AM, Rose wrote:

Suggest you call them and ask ...

73

K0PP

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 06:40 Ronnie Hull  wrote:


I just purchased a KX3 from the original owner. It did NOT come with the
manual. Does Elecraft sell the original Manuals? I am NOT interested in
downloading the .PDF

Thanks

W5SUM

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual

[Phil Hystad via Elecraft]

I download all the Elecraft manuals and print them on 3-hole paper 
(pre-punched) and then keep them in a binder.  This way, I can add notes here 
and there in the right spot merely by inserting another 3-hole punched paper or 
punching printed e-mails or something myself.

I think this is the absolute best way to manage the information you will 
collect over the years on different things like suggested settings for 
this-and-that and so on.

73, phil, K7PEH


> On Jul 3, 2018, at 6:49 AM, Rich  wrote:
> 
> If they do not sell it,  You could download the PDF and take it to a Kinkos 
> and have them print it.
> 
> Rich
> 
> 
> On 7/3/2018 9:43 AM, Rose wrote:
>> Suggest you call them and ask ...
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> K0PP
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 06:40 Ronnie Hull  wrote:
>> 
>>> I just purchased a KX3 from the original owner. It did NOT come with the
>>> manual. Does Elecraft sell the original Manuals? I am NOT interested in
>>> downloading the .PDF
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> W5SUM
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to elecraftcov...@gmail.com
>>> 
>> __
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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual

[Rich]

If they do not sell it,  You could download the PDF and take it to a 
Kinkos and have them print it.


Rich


On 7/3/2018 9:43 AM, Rose wrote:

Suggest you call them and ask ...

73

K0PP

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 06:40 Ronnie Hull  wrote:


I just purchased a KX3 from the original owner. It did NOT come with the
manual. Does Elecraft sell the original Manuals? I am NOT interested in
downloading the .PDF

Thanks

W5SUM

Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] WTB K2 Control Board or Dead K2

[Alan D. Wilcox]

Still looking … 

I’d like to buy a K2 Control Board (with or without f/w).
A basket-case K2 would do as well.

Write me off the Reflector as to price, options, and condition.

Many thanks,
Alan

Alan D. Wilcox, W3DVX
570-478-0736 (cell, text)
https://WilcoxEngineering.com 
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/6768 ... Elecraft Client Comments
http://WilcoxPublishing.com
http://amazon.com/author/alandwilcox 
Williamsport, PA 17701


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Re: [Elecraft] KX3 Manual

[Rose]

Suggest you call them and ask ...

73

K0PP

On Tue, Jul 3, 2018, 06:40 Ronnie Hull  wrote:

>
> I just purchased a KX3 from the original owner. It did NOT come with the
> manual. Does Elecraft sell the original Manuals? I am NOT interested in
> downloading the .PDF
>
> Thanks
>
> W5SUM
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> __
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[Elecraft] KPA500 Fan Question

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

In running my KPA500 on FT-8 mode at about 400 watts output, what is the 
recommended setting for Fan CTL?    I usually keep it in NORmal but have 
tried other settings.  I watch the TEMP and see that it gets above 
65ºC.   The fan speed increments up and down as the temperature changes 
accordingly.  All appears norms.    But, do you find setting the Fan CTL 
to some value is more efficient in regard to cooling?


Thanks in advance for your inputs.

73
Bob, K4TAX

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[Elecraft] Drive KPA500 with either K3s or KX3 keying question

[Michael Blake via Elecraft]

Prior to receiving my KAT500 I have routinely connected my K3S to the KPA500 
via the AUX cable and the KX3 keying output to the PA KEY jack via an RCA to 
RCA cable at the same time.  The RF input from the K3S or the KX3 goes through 
a two position coax switch.  Having both connected at the same time has not 
seemed to cause any identifiable problem in going back and forth between the 
two driving transceivers.

The question is may I make the same connections through the KAT500, the K3S 
connected through the KAT500 via AUX cables and the KX3 connected to the KAT500 
via the PTT RLY connections.  It appears that the internal inhibit relay opens 
both lines when an interrupt is necessary and that other than that the two 
connections are in parallel.

Very 73 - Mike - K9JRI






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[Elecraft] KX3 Manual

[Ronnie Hull]

I just purchased a KX3 from the original owner. It did NOT come with the 
manual. Does Elecraft sell the original Manuals? I am NOT interested in 
downloading the .PDF

Thanks

W5SUM 

Sent from my iPhone
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[Elecraft] P3 issue solved

[eric norris via Elecraft]

It appears that I got a defective cable from Elecraft.  There's a first time 
for everything.  I was using the single cable from the P3 to the K3S.  When I 
swapped it for the double connected P3 to K3S cable, it worked.
This after an hour of reloading firmware, plugging and unplugging...and finally 
rereading the P3 manual troubleshooting section.  You'd think after 22 years of 
being a tech writer, RTFM would have been the first step.
Thanks to those who replied.
73 Eric WD6DBM

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
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Re: [Elecraft] Using "streamer" with K3 (re-sent)

[dgb]

I've used the same with great success for years Kjeld

73 Dwight NS9I


On 7/3/2018 3:30 AM, Kjeld Holm wrote:

Dear Victor,

I am using a similar device with my phonac hearing aids - called tv link - I
have it conneted to the external speaker jack on my K3.

Vy 73 de OZ1CCM, Kjeld

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Victor Rosenthal
Sent: 3. juli 2018 08:11
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Using "streamer" with K3 (re-sent)

Sorry for reposting over and over. For some reason I keep getting html
instead of plain text. This time it should work.


I am officially a serious geezer with hearing aids now. However, I am
having a problem getting a "streamer" device working with my K3.
Supposedly it can be connected to the headphone output and it will
transmit audio via Bluetooth directly to my hearing aids. It works fine
when I plug it into my computer's phone jack, but when I connect it to
the K3 -- either the front or rear phone jacks or the speaker jack or
even the Line Out connector -- the audio is very weak and distorted.

The device is a Resound Streamer II. Has anyone used this or something
similar successfully? More to the point, any idea why it doesn't work?

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] Using "streamer" with K3 (re-sent)

[Kjeld Holm]

Dear Victor,

I am using a similar device with my phonac hearing aids - called tv link - I
have it conneted to the external speaker jack on my K3. 

Vy 73 de OZ1CCM, Kjeld

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Victor Rosenthal
Sent: 3. juli 2018 08:11
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] Using "streamer" with K3 (re-sent)

Sorry for reposting over and over. For some reason I keep getting html 
instead of plain text. This time it should work.


I am officially a serious geezer with hearing aids now. However, I am 
having a problem getting a "streamer" device working with my K3. 
Supposedly it can be connected to the headphone output and it will 
transmit audio via Bluetooth directly to my hearing aids. It works fine 
when I plug it into my computer's phone jack, but when I connect it to 
the K3 -- either the front or rear phone jacks or the speaker jack or 
even the Line Out connector -- the audio is very weak and distorted.

The device is a Resound Streamer II. Has anyone used this or something 
similar successfully? More to the point, any idea why it doesn't work?

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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Re: [Elecraft] [KX3] QSO of the week (and a re-learned QRP SSB tip

[David Gilbert]

It works the other way as well.  There are often other weak signals in 
the pileup, either due to marginal antennas or poor propagation or being 
off the side of the pileup operator's beam.   An op signing "/QRP" makes 
it sound like he thinks he should get special treatment when in fact 
there are perfectly valid reasons why other signals might be as weak as 
his.  It has always seemed boorish to me.


I'm admittedly primarily a contester, but in my experience signing 
"/QRP" has always been considered bad practice and I've heard pileup 
operators tell callers to quit doing it or go away.  I do the same when 
running.


Dave   AB7E




On 7/2/2018 11:19 AM, ANDY DURBIN wrote:
"/QRP often, but not always, indicates a field operation, and they're 
sort of fun to work, at least for me."



And sometimes it means someone running 5 W to a 6 ele Yagi at 75 ft! 
That station has far higher ERP that I do running 100 W with my 
modest antennas.



If I was portable in UK, where had my first licence, my call was 
g3wyc/p. US operators have completely butchered and obfuscated the 
meaning of portable by verbalizing k3wyc/7 as "k3wyc portable 7". The 
/7 suffix does not mean I am portable. It just means I'm operating in 
region 7 and I'm saying so because it is required for the contest in 
which I'm operating.



If you want special attention because you are portable why not 
indicate portable rather than QRP?



73,

Andy k3wyc


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[Elecraft] Using "streamer" with K3 (re-sent)

[Victor Rosenthal]

Sorry for reposting over and over. For some reason I keep getting html 
instead of plain text. This time it should work.



I am officially a serious geezer with hearing aids now. However, I am 
having a problem getting a "streamer" device working with my K3. 
Supposedly it can be connected to the headphone output and it will 
transmit audio via Bluetooth directly to my hearing aids. It works fine 
when I plug it into my computer's phone jack, but when I connect it to 
the K3 -- either the front or rear phone jacks or the speaker jack or 
even the Line Out connector -- the audio is very weak and distorted.


The device is a Resound Streamer II. Has anyone used this or something 
similar successfully? More to the point, any idea why it doesn't work?


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
CWops no. 5
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
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