Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Guys - we've long since passed he max posting limit for the list on a single 
topic. Let's wind this one down at this time.


73,
Eric
/Moderator (hopefully not for life!..)/
/elecraft.com/

On 1/7/2019 7:45 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:

Then there must be less signal too:-)
Wes  N7WS

On 1/7/2019 6:48 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:


... less noise on receive...
73
Bob, K4TAX




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Re: [Elecraft] New tuning knob for the KX2

[Mike Morrow]

If **only** we could get the candid and informed evaluation of someone who was 
*really* familiar with the KX2!! :-)

Mike / KK5F
K1 #175 (11/2000)
KX2 #2211 (11/2017)

-Original Message-
>From: Wayne Burdick 
>Sent: Jan 7, 2019 7:48 PM
>To: Mike Morrow 
>Cc: Elecraft 
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] New tuning knob for the KX2
>
>Nonetheless: to each his own :)
>
>Wayne
>N6KR
>
>
>elecraft.com
>
>> On Jan 7, 2019, at 2:32 PM, Mike Morrow  wrote:
>> 
>> Joe wrote:
>> 
>>> I love my KX2 but the main tuning knob has always been a problem for me.
>>> 
>>> It’s just a tad too small and not easy to spin rapidly.
>>> 
>>> I found a very nice aluminum knob for the KX2 being sold on eBay by a 
>>> gentleman in Winterport,ME.
>>> 
>>> The tracking item nr. is:  264113321673.
>>> 
>>> The knob costs $24.95 shipped, is CNC machined aluminum and is  black in 
>>> color….not exactly cheap but worth every penny IMHO.
>>> 
>>> I just put it on my KX2 and tuning is now a dream…it feels like a much 
>>> larger knob and the finger dimple is larger than the stock KX2 knob which 
>>> allows for a nice fit.
>>> 
>>> It also fits the KX1 for all of the KX1 users out there.
>>> 
>>> A very nice addition to my KX2.
>>> 
>>> Now, if only Wayne can find a ball bearing rotary encoder for the KX2  all 
>>> would be well in the world (grin).
>>> 
>>> Enjoy those Elecraft radios.
>>> 
>>>73, Joe W2KJ
>>>I QRP, therefore I am
>> 
>> Better is "I QRP, therefore I HAM"?
>> 
>> To your point, this is what Wayne/N6KR wrote about the KX2 knob, 30 March 
>> 2017, on the Elecraft list:
>> 
>> Start quote--
>> In response to various comments on the KX2 knob (today and earlier): 
>> 
>> Our goal for the KX2 was to make it really lightweight. Light enough to be 
>> used as an HT. Goat-optional on longer hikes. 
>> 
>> Even 1 ounce of additional weight can increase fatigue when holding a device 
>> (try, for example, carrying around an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 7+). So we 
>> designed a low-profile plastic VFO A knob that is big enough to get the job 
>> done. 
>> 
>> Another reason not to use a heavier knob is that the KX2’s VFO encoder is 
>> itself a compact unit that has a sleeve bearing. Weighted knobs should in 
>> general be used only with heavier, ball-bearing style encoders. On this 
>> encoder, a heavy knob would shorten the rotational life. 
>> 
>> Regarding adding a dimple: I’ve tried knobs this size with dimples and found 
>> that they were hard to use. A matter of taste and fingertip size, I guess. 
>> Meanwhile, the present knob can be “spun” to a certain degree by putting 
>> light finger pressure on the rim. 
>> 
>> 73, 
>> Wayne 
>> N6KR
>> End quote--
>> 
>> Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] New tuning knob for the KX2

[Wayne Burdick]

Nonetheless: to each his own :)

Wayne
N6KR


elecraft.com

> On Jan 7, 2019, at 2:32 PM, Mike Morrow  wrote:
> 
> Joe wrote:
> 
>> I love my KX2 but the main tuning knob has always been a problem for me.
>> 
>> It’s just a tad too small and not easy to spin rapidly.
>> 
>> I found a very nice aluminum knob for the KX2 being sold on eBay by a 
>> gentleman in Winterport,ME.
>> 
>> The tracking item nr. is:  264113321673.
>> 
>> The knob costs $24.95 shipped, is CNC machined aluminum and is  black in 
>> color….not exactly cheap but worth every penny IMHO.
>> 
>> I just put it on my KX2 and tuning is now a dream…it feels like a much 
>> larger knob and the finger dimple is larger than the stock KX2 knob which 
>> allows for a nice fit.
>> 
>> It also fits the KX1 for all of the KX1 users out there.
>> 
>> A very nice addition to my KX2.
>> 
>> Now, if only Wayne can find a ball bearing rotary encoder for the KX2  all 
>> would be well in the world (grin).
>> 
>> Enjoy those Elecraft radios.
>> 
>>73, Joe W2KJ
>>I QRP, therefore I am
> 
> Better is "I QRP, therefore I HAM"?
> 
> To your point, this is what Wayne/N6KR wrote about the KX2 knob, 30 March 
> 2017, on the Elecraft list:
> 
> Start quote--
> In response to various comments on the KX2 knob (today and earlier): 
> 
> Our goal for the KX2 was to make it really lightweight. Light enough to be 
> used as an HT. Goat-optional on longer hikes. 
> 
> Even 1 ounce of additional weight can increase fatigue when holding a device 
> (try, for example, carrying around an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 7+). So we 
> designed a low-profile plastic VFO A knob that is big enough to get the job 
> done. 
> 
> Another reason not to use a heavier knob is that the KX2’s VFO encoder is 
> itself a compact unit that has a sleeve bearing. Weighted knobs should in 
> general be used only with heavier, ball-bearing style encoders. On this 
> encoder, a heavy knob would shorten the rotational life. 
> 
> Regarding adding a dimple: I’ve tried knobs this size with dimples and found 
> that they were hard to use. A matter of taste and fingertip size, I guess. 
> Meanwhile, the present knob can be “spun” to a certain degree by putting 
> light finger pressure on the rim. 
> 
> 73, 
> Wayne 
> N6KR
> End quote--
> 
> Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

I use the "window line" for 3 of my antennas.  We have less than 125 days/ yr 
with precipitation of all types.  The "loss wet" is a non issue in my thinking 
as I'm sure would be about the same for most folks.  

Still with extreme loss, under most conditions, coax will have greater loss. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 7, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Walter Underwood  wrote:
> 
> I think “window line” is less ambiguous for the stuff separated by plastic 
> with squares cut out. I see “ladder line” being used to mean either window 
> line or open wire line.
> 
> DX Engineering uses ladder line to mean the plastic dielectric line: 
> https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/ladder-line
> 
> W7FG uses ladder line to mean 600 Ohm open wire line: 
> http://trueladderline.com/w7fg-design-600-ohm-open-wire-feedline/
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> 
>> On Jan 7, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
>> 
>> There is a BIG difference between ladder line and open wire transmission 
>> line.
>> 
>> Even low loss ladder line can have significant loss, especially when wet.
>> 
>> Open wire feeders can truly be low loss even when operated at high SWR.
>> 
>> So how do you construct proper open wire line?  It is most easily done when 
>> the 2 wires are under tension and spaced about 6 inches apart with as few 
>> insulators between them as possible - the tension keeps the spacing 
>> relatively constant - that is practical over a long horizontal run of the 
>> transmission line.  Then bring it up to the antenna feedpoint with wires 
>> spaced apart with insulators, and likewise on the run to the house entry or 
>> better yet to the shack - the more insulators, the greater the loss can be.  
>> You can use ladder-line from there into the shack, or you can put a good 
>> current mode balun at the house entry and from there run a short length of 
>> coax to the tuner.
>> 
>> As I have mentioned before, whether a 1:1 balun or a 4:1 balun will work 
>> better has to be determined - it depends on the feedline length, the 
>> frequency, and the feedpoint impedance of the radiator for that particular 
>> frequency.  If the feedpoint impedance at the tuner end of the feedline is 
>> already low, a 4:1 balun will make it 4 times lower and difficult for your 
>> tuner to deal with.
>> 
>> A G5RV antenna on 160 meters will not be very efficient (the high current 
>> point will be somewhere down the transmission line and not at the center of 
>> the antenna).  One thing is true, the RF voltage at the ends of the antenna 
>> is the highest, and the highest current is 1/4 wavelength away from the end, 
>> even if that is at a point well down the feedline.  The equal and opposite 
>> currents on the feedline will cancle making that highest current point not 
>> useful for radiating a signal.
>> 
>> Radiator lengths greater than 1/2 wavelength can be efficient, but shorter 
>> than 1/2 wavelength will be less efficient because the balanced currents on 
>> the feedline cancel each other out.  That is just plain physics.
>> 
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 1/7/2019 10:49 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>>> Try running that 102' long "G5RV" up 50' on 160 meters.  Feed it with 100' 
>>> of Wireman 553 "low loss" ladderline.  The 0.1 dB matched loss turns into 
>>> over 13 db at the input and that's without considering tuner loss. (Source: 
>>> EZNEC and TLDetails)
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Re: [Elecraft] New tuning knob for the KX2

[Mike Morrow]

Joe wrote:

>I love my KX2 but the main tuning knob has always been a problem for me.
>
>It’s just a tad too small and not easy to spin rapidly.
>
>I found a very nice aluminum knob for the KX2 being sold on eBay by a 
>gentleman in Winterport,ME.
>
>The tracking item nr. is:  264113321673.
>
>The knob costs $24.95 shipped, is CNC machined aluminum and is  black in 
>color….not exactly cheap but worth every penny IMHO.
>
>I just put it on my KX2 and tuning is now a dream…it feels like a much larger 
>knob and the finger dimple is larger than the stock KX2 knob which allows for 
>a nice fit.
>
>It also fits the KX1 for all of the KX1 users out there.
>
>A very nice addition to my KX2.
>
>Now, if only Wayne can find a ball bearing rotary encoder for the KX2  all 
>would be well in the world (grin).
>
>Enjoy those Elecraft radios.
>
>   73, Joe W2KJ
>   I QRP, therefore I am

Better is "I QRP, therefore I HAM"?

To your point, this is what Wayne/N6KR wrote about the KX2 knob, 30 March 2017, 
on the Elecraft list:

Start quote--
In response to various comments on the KX2 knob (today and earlier): 

Our goal for the KX2 was to make it really lightweight. Light enough to be used 
as an HT. Goat-optional on longer hikes. 

Even 1 ounce of additional weight can increase fatigue when holding a device 
(try, for example, carrying around an iPhone 7 vs. an iPhone 7+). So we 
designed a low-profile plastic VFO A knob that is big enough to get the job 
done. 

Another reason not to use a heavier knob is that the KX2’s VFO encoder is 
itself a compact unit that has a sleeve bearing. Weighted knobs should in 
general be used only with heavier, ball-bearing style encoders. On this 
encoder, a heavy knob would shorten the rotational life. 

Regarding adding a dimple: I’ve tried knobs this size with dimples and found 
that they were hard to use. A matter of taste and fingertip size, I guess. 
Meanwhile, the present knob can be “spun” to a certain degree by putting light 
finger pressure on the rim. 

73, 
Wayne 
N6KR
End quote--

Mike / KK5F
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[Elecraft] For Sale: K1 Internal Battery Option KBT1

[Doug Person]

More stuff from the storage room:

I have a fresh in-the-box KBT1 unbuilt Internal Battery Option for the 
K1 Transceiver.  $50 Shipped 1st Class CONUS


Please reply off-list

Doug -- KJ0F


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[Elecraft] New tuning knob for the KX2

[Joseph Trombino, Jr]

Howdy Gang.

I love my KX2 but the main tuning knob has always been a problem for me.

It’s just a tad too small and not easy to spin rapidly.

I found a very nice aluminum knob for the KX2 being sold on eBay by a gentleman 
in Winterport,ME.

The tracking item nr. is:  264113321673.

The knob costs $24.95 shipped, is CNC machined aluminum and is  black in 
color….not exactly cheap but worth every penny IMHO.

I just put it on my KX2 and tuning is now a dream…it feels like a much larger 
knob and the finger dimple is larger than the stock KX2 knob which allows for a 
nice fit.

It also fits the KX1 for all of the KX1 users out there.

A very nice addition to my KX2.

Now, if only Wayne can find a ball bearing rotary encoder for the KX2  all 
would be well in the world (grin).

Enjoy those Elecraft radios.

73, Joe W2KJ
I QRP, therefore I am
KX2-KX3







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[Elecraft] Small items for sale

[Doug Person]

I have 3 small items I would like to sell:  (please respond off-list if 
interested)


N-GEN WIDEBAND NOISE GENERATOR -- KIT  $35 Shipped 1st class USPS

N-GEN WIDEBAND NOISE GENERATOR -- BUILT  $35 Shipped 1st class USPS

XG-1 SIGNAL GENERATOR -- built -- $35 Shipped 1st Class USPS

Thanks -- Doug -- KJ0F

doug (at) kj0f.com

Just for reference - this is what the XG-1 is:

Description: The XG1 is a crystal-controlled signal generator with very 
accurate 1 microvolt and 50 microvolt output levels. The output 
frequency is 7040 kHz. The unit can be used to determine the actual 
sensitivity and receive gain of any HF receiver that covers the 40-meter 
band. The 50-microvolt output can be used for S-meter calibration.


The output levels are accurate to better than +/- 2 dB (typically +/- 1 
dB). This makes the XG1 a low-cost alternative to expensive lab-grade 
signal generators when comparing the performance of various receivers.


Like Elecraft's other "mini-module" kits, the XG1 is easy to build, as 
well as small: the PC board is just 3.5 x 1.5 inches. Other features 
include a power-on LED, on-board battery with low-battery warning LED, 
and protection against accidental transmit at QRP levels.



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[Elecraft] KX1 Sold

[K9MA]

73,

Scott K9MA

**

Slightly modified, no ATU, with KXPD1 paddle.

$275 plus shipping

KX1 Details 



--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Walter Underwood]

A pre-publication copy of the N7WS QST article from 1999.

http://k6mhe.com/n7ws/Ladder_Line.pdf

Independent verification of the N7WS experiments, with some nice graphs showing 
loss when dry, with rainwater, and with frost. The results are fairly similar.

http://www.karinya.net/g3txq/wet_ll/

wunder
Walter Underwood
wun...@wunderwood.org
http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)

> On Jan 7, 2019, at 10:33 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 1/7/2019 8:39 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Even low loss ladder line can have significant loss, especially when wet.
> 
> N7WS is the guy who did that research and published it several decades ago. 
> It's in one of those excellent ARRL Antenna Compendiums.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Jim Brown]

On 1/7/2019 8:39 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Even low loss ladder line can have significant loss, especially when wet.


N7WS is the guy who did that research and published it several decades 
ago. It's in one of those excellent ARRL Antenna Compendiums.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Annoying WSJT-X Message

[Bill Frantz]

Get the wsjt-x sources. Modify them to remove the message. 
(Probably the easiest way is to comment out the line that causes 
it to be displayed.) Build wsjt-x and enjoy.


73 Bill AE6JV

On 1/7/19 at 10:11 AM, k...@arcomcontrollers.com (Ken Arck) wrote:


Already discussed - you need to wait for the next release

Ken



At 09:43 AM 1/7/2019, Richard wrote:
Has anyone figured out how to stop that "2.0 only" message 
from popping up every time you launch WSJT-X 2.0?


Richard - W4KBX


---
Bill Frantz|"We used to quip that "password" is the most common
408-356-8506   | password. Now it's 'password1.' Who said 
users haven't

www.pwpconsult.com | learned anything about security?" -- Bruce Schneier

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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[rv6amark via Elecraft]

Re:  "...what is the old dual air coil Heathkit B-1balun, a current or voltage 
type?  If I remember correctly, they are 4:1 ratio."

From the Heathkit manual:  "The Heathkit Balun Coil Set, Model B-1 is a 
convenient transmitter accessory which has the capability of matching 
unbalanced coax lines, used on most modern transmitters, to balanced lines to 
either 75 ohms or 300 ohms impedance".

The manual discusses its use with a dipole (~75 ohms) or a folded dipole (~300 
ohms), and the analogy of using a line transmission line to get the desired 
impedance transformation.  It is a very short but interesting read.

The assembly manual shows how to wire it in 1:1 or 4:1 configurations.  The 
schematic is identical to the Elecraft BL2 , except it uses air core coils 
instead of ferrite coils, and there is no switch to easily change between 
impedance ratios.   

I have never used my BL-2, so I cannot vouch for its effectiveness.  I have 
often wondered if it might be compromised by the 2 bifilar wound 
"non-self-shielding" air core coils tightly packed into a metal enclosure 
resulting in enough capacitance or magnetic coupling to each other and the 
enclosure to reduce its effectiveness.

I do, however, open it up occasionally and admire those beautiful inductors!

Mark
KE6BB



null
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Re: [Elecraft] Annoying WSJT-X Message

[Tommy]

  I understand it will be removed in the next update.

73 de Tom - KB2SMS


On 1/7/19 12:43 PM, Richard wrote:

Has anyone figured out how to stop that "2.0 only" message from popping up 
every time you launch WSJT-X 2.0?

Richard - W4KBX

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Re: [Elecraft] Annoying WSJT-X Message

[Ken Arck]

Already discussed - you need to wait for the next release

Ken



At 09:43 AM 1/7/2019, Richard wrote:
Has anyone figured out how to stop that "2.0 only" message from 
popping up every time you launch WSJT-X 2.0?


Richard - W4KBX
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Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
we offer complete repeater packages!
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Re: [Elecraft] {K3} Loss of audio while changing digital modes

[Richard Ferch]

Squelch? Wazzat? No, I would never knowingly turn that on. But next time
the muting happens, I will try to remember to look at the CONFIG:SQL MAIN
and SQL SUB settings to see if they have been changed somehow.

That leaves an open question: Why would tapping SUB twice, or turning the
K3's power off and back on, unmute the receiver?

73,
Rich VE3KI

Don W3FPR wrote:

That sounds like you have squelch turned on.
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[Elecraft] Annoying WSJT-X Message

[Richard]

Has anyone figured out how to stop that "2.0 only" message from popping up 
every time you launch WSJT-X 2.0?

Richard - W4KBX
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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Walter Underwood]

I think “window line” is less ambiguous for the stuff separated by plastic with 
squares cut out. I see “ladder line” being used to mean either window line or 
open wire line.

DX Engineering uses ladder line to mean the plastic dielectric line: 
https://www.dxengineering.com/search/part-type/ladder-line

W7FG uses ladder line to mean 600 Ohm open wire line: 
http://trueladderline.com/w7fg-design-600-ohm-open-wire-feedline/

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Jan 7, 2019, at 8:39 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> 
> There is a BIG difference between ladder line and open wire transmission line.
> 
> Even low loss ladder line can have significant loss, especially when wet.
> 
> Open wire feeders can truly be low loss even when operated at high SWR.
> 
> So how do you construct proper open wire line?  It is most easily done when 
> the 2 wires are under tension and spaced about 6 inches apart with as few 
> insulators between them as possible - the tension keeps the spacing 
> relatively constant - that is practical over a long horizontal run of the 
> transmission line.  Then bring it up to the antenna feedpoint with wires 
> spaced apart with insulators, and likewise on the run to the house entry or 
> better yet to the shack - the more insulators, the greater the loss can be.  
> You can use ladder-line from there into the shack, or you can put a good 
> current mode balun at the house entry and from there run a short length of 
> coax to the tuner.
> 
> As I have mentioned before, whether a 1:1 balun or a 4:1 balun will work 
> better has to be determined - it depends on the feedline length, the 
> frequency, and the feedpoint impedance of the radiator for that particular 
> frequency.  If the feedpoint impedance at the tuner end of the feedline is 
> already low, a 4:1 balun will make it 4 times lower and difficult for your 
> tuner to deal with.
> 
> A G5RV antenna on 160 meters will not be very efficient (the high current 
> point will be somewhere down the transmission line and not at the center of 
> the antenna).  One thing is true, the RF voltage at the ends of the antenna 
> is the highest, and the highest current is 1/4 wavelength away from the end, 
> even if that is at a point well down the feedline.  The equal and opposite 
> currents on the feedline will cancle making that highest current point not 
> useful for radiating a signal.
> 
> Radiator lengths greater than 1/2 wavelength can be efficient, but shorter 
> than 1/2 wavelength will be less efficient because the balanced currents on 
> the feedline cancel each other out.  That is just plain physics.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/7/2019 10:49 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:
>> Try running that 102' long "G5RV" up 50' on 160 meters.  Feed it with 100' 
>> of Wireman 553 "low loss" ladderline.  The 0.1 dB matched loss turns into 
>> over 13 db at the input and that's without considering tuner loss. (Source: 
>> EZNEC and TLDetails)
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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[K9MA]

On 1/7/2019 10:39, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Radiator lengths greater than 1/2 wavelength can be efficient, but 
shorter than 1/2 wavelength will be less efficient because the 
balanced currents on the feedline cancel each other out.  That is just 
plain physics.


Actually, a short antenna CAN be very efficient, as long as the 
resistance of the antenna itself is low and the losses in the matching 
network are low. I didn't say it was easy, though.


73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[K9MA]

There are limits, of course, as your example shows. A center fed quarter 
wave is a very low impedance. I'd expect the feedline loss for that G5RV 
system would be less than a couple dB on 80 through 10 meters, generally 
acceptable.


73,
Scott K9MA


On 1/7/2019 09:49, Wes Stewart wrote:


With all due respect, you don't say what acceptable loss is.  Of 
course, you can match whatever the impedance is, most tuners will 
match an open circuit because their internal losses allow it.  But it 
can be a fallacy that, "The line loss is so low it doesn't matter."  
Absent voltage breakdown, line loss increases because of the increased 
circulating current resulting from operating at elevated SWR.  That 
increased current is an issue in some baluns and tuners as well.  
*All* of these components must be considered when evaluating an 
antenna "system."  Considering only one part in isolation is fraught 
with danger.


Try running that 102' long "G5RV" up 50' on 160 meters.  Feed it with 
100' of Wireman 553 "low loss" ladderline.  The 0.1 dB matched loss 
turns into over 13 db at the input and that's without considering 
tuner loss. (Source: EZNEC and TLDetails)


Wes  N7WS

On 1/6/2019 3:15 PM, K9MA wrote:
The really attractive thing about open line, and even window line, is 
that its loss is so low you can use it at a very high SWR, and take 
care of the matching at the station end. This is especially useful 
for multi-band antennas. The famous G5RV, for example, will work just 
exactly the same fed with window line and a tuner as it will with the 
usual matching section.


73,
Scott K9MA


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--
Scott  K9MA

k...@sdellington.us

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Re: [Elecraft] {K3} Loss of audio while changing digital modes

[Don Wilhelm]

Rich,

That sounds like you have squelch turned on.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 1/7/2019 12:54 AM, Richard Ferch wrote:

I have seen something that might (or might not) be related. Occasionally
(not every time), at the end of an operating session using WSJT-X, when I
shut down WSJT-X the audio from my K3 in my headphones goes mute. I have
seen this once or twice when shutting down fldigi as well. It does not
happen with other programs I use.

I have found that tapping the SUB button twice (I have a subRX in my K3)
restores audio output.

I have no idea what causes this receiver muting and would be interested to
know the explanation if there is one.


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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Don Wilhelm]

There is a BIG difference between ladder line and open wire transmission 
line.


Even low loss ladder line can have significant loss, especially when wet.

Open wire feeders can truly be low loss even when operated at high SWR.

So how do you construct proper open wire line?  It is most easily done 
when the 2 wires are under tension and spaced about 6 inches apart with 
as few insulators between them as possible - the tension keeps the 
spacing relatively constant - that is practical over a long horizontal 
run of the transmission line.  Then bring it up to the antenna feedpoint 
with wires spaced apart with insulators, and likewise on the run to the 
house entry or better yet to the shack - the more insulators, the 
greater the loss can be.  You can use ladder-line from there into the 
shack, or you can put a good current mode balun at the house entry and 
from there run a short length of coax to the tuner.


As I have mentioned before, whether a 1:1 balun or a 4:1 balun will work 
better has to be determined - it depends on the feedline length, the 
frequency, and the feedpoint impedance of the radiator for that 
particular frequency.  If the feedpoint impedance at the tuner end of 
the feedline is already low, a 4:1 balun will make it 4 times lower and 
difficult for your tuner to deal with.


A G5RV antenna on 160 meters will not be very efficient (the high 
current point will be somewhere down the transmission line and not at 
the center of the antenna).  One thing is true, the RF voltage at the 
ends of the antenna is the highest, and the highest current is 1/4 
wavelength away from the end, even if that is at a point well down the 
feedline.  The equal and opposite currents on the feedline will cancle 
making that highest current point not useful for radiating a signal.


Radiator lengths greater than 1/2 wavelength can be efficient, but 
shorter than 1/2 wavelength will be less efficient because the balanced 
currents on the feedline cancel each other out.  That is just plain physics.


73,
Don W3FPR



On 1/7/2019 10:49 AM, Wes Stewart wrote:



Try running that 102' long "G5RV" up 50' on 160 meters.  Feed it with 
100' of Wireman 553 "low loss" ladderline.  The 0.1 dB matched loss 
turns into over 13 db at the input and that's without considering tuner 
loss. (Source: EZNEC and TLDetails)



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[Elecraft] For Sale LP-Pan unit

[Greg Leber]

LP-Pan unit in mint cond. $150. Cont me off list if interested.
(K9ON)  greg7...@gmail.com
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[Elecraft] Elecraft KRC2 build snaps and short narrative

[Paul Gacek via Elecraft]

Like all on this list I like my Elecraft gear and have used it extensively for 
Summits on the Air (SOTA), the 2016 ARRL NPOTA event and now morphing into 
suitcase DXpeditions.

If interested in a few snaps and narrative check out my blog post at …..

https://w6png.wordpress.com/2019/01/07/suitcase-dxpedition-station-automation-step-1-the-elecraft-krc2/
 



Paul W6PNG/M0SNA


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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Wes Stewart]

With all due respect, you don't say what acceptable loss is.  Of course, you can 
match whatever the impedance is, most tuners will match an open circuit because 
their internal losses allow it.  But it can be a fallacy that, "The line loss is 
so low it doesn't matter."  Absent voltage breakdown, line loss increases 
because of the increased circulating current resulting from operating at 
elevated SWR.  That increased current is an issue in some baluns and tuners as 
well.  *All* of these components must be considered when evaluating an antenna 
"system."  Considering only one part in isolation is fraught with danger.


Try running that 102' long "G5RV" up 50' on 160 meters.  Feed it with 100' of 
Wireman 553 "low loss" ladderline.  The 0.1 dB matched loss turns into over 13 
db at the input and that's without considering tuner loss. (Source: EZNEC and 
TLDetails)


Wes  N7WS

On 1/6/2019 3:15 PM, K9MA wrote:
The really attractive thing about open line, and even window line, is that its 
loss is so low you can use it at a very high SWR, and take care of the 
matching at the station end. This is especially useful for multi-band 
antennas. The famous G5RV, for example, will work just exactly the same fed 
with window line and a tuner as it will with the usual matching section.


73,
Scott K9MA


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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Wes Stewart]

Then there must be less signal too:-)

Wes  N7WS

On 1/7/2019 6:48 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:


... less noise on receive...

73

Bob, K4TAX


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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

They are a voltage type, 4:1 designed to feed a folded dipole. There are 
actually 4 windings, 2 on each coil.


If you want to see the best in balun usage and efficiency, a folded 
dipole typically has some 200 to 300 ohms impedance when constructed 
from open wire line or like materials.    Thus the upper radiator and 
lower radiator are equal diameters.  Of course it basically a single 
band antenna and  when used with a 4:1 balun provides,  a 50 to 75 ohm 
load for the transmitter.   For that reason, I believe hams {not me for 
one}, have gotten away from the design.  There is a lot of merit to the 
folded dipole antenna, relatively broadband, less noise on receive, low 
loss, high efficiency and etc.   I use one for my 160M and another for 
my 75M AM stations.    Both of mine are constructed from heavy 300 ohm 
transmitting feed line.  One must pay special attention to end support 
means {and not by the conductors with an insulator}  and center support 
where the feed line is attached.


73

Bob, K4TAX

On 1/6/2019 10:17 PM, Charlie T wrote:

I should probably know this, but what is the old dual air coil Heathkit B-1
balun, a current or voltage type?
If I remember correctly, they are 4:1 ratio.
Would this be a better choice for open-wire feed to a dipole intended for
use on several bands?

73, Charlie k3ICH





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Re: [Elecraft] KAT 500 and open wire

[David Woolley]

Don:

1) made a distinction between feedpoint and load impedance, which led me 
to believe the load was the antenna, and the feedpoint the transmitter end;


2) said that the feedpoint impedance depended on the length of the line 
and the frequency, which further supported that interpretation.


However, considering your definition of feedpoint, and consider balanced 
twin feeder.  Even with a perfect choke at the feedpoint, there will be 
unbalance at the transmitter end, when using designs, like the K series, 
that feed against chassis.  In particular, consider a feeder length of a 
quarter wavelength.  As well as the intended differential mode signal, 
you will also excite the feeder as a quarter wave vertical against the 
chassis and, presumably, ground, if you don't choke at the transmitter end.


My gut feeling is that having a good match to the feeder is an 
oversimplification, but I need to think about that a bit more.


Incidentally, is the 4:1 "current mode" balun configuration really 
purely current mode?  It seems to me that it is behaving as a 
transformer as well as as a choke.



On 07/01/2019 02:12, Jim Brown wrote:
I think we're confused here about the meaning the words "feedpoint 
impedance." It is the impedance of THE ANTENNA at the point where the 
feedline is attached, and it is determined entirely by the antenna, 
INCLUDING the common mode circuit of the



I don't know of a way to EFFECTIVELY choke a feedline that is not matched to 
the antenna.
a very good choke must be AT THE FEEDPOINT


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