Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
OK, maybe the bet was a bit one sided, as most SM PSU's are made in China and THEY produce EMI not the analogue ones. How can the purchaser be responsible? They don't design and manufacture the item ! EMC rules on these PSU's are very clear. If however, the manufacturer chooses to omit vital EMI suppression components because of commercial imperative, then they are breaking the law. Quality control does not enter into the equation, neither does marketing. The government organisations, who originally demanded that test methods and limits were put in place as part of the overall CE scheme, and now do nothing to enforce the law are equally to blame. Stewart G3RXQ On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:16:19 +, David Woolley (E.L) wrote: Stewart Baker wrote: By any chance was the UPS manufactured in China ? That's not a very fair bet; almost every bit of consumer electronics is manufactured in China or has most of its components manufactured there. However, if the suggestion is the responsibility for poor EMC lies in China, that's not true. A lot of the responsibility comes down to the purchasers, who want minimum prices and do not care about features that only benefit non-purchasers. Beyond that are the marketing organisations that wouldn't know what EMC measurements actually mean, and the corporate management that only knows how to manipulate the stock market. If you buy something from a UK/US marketing organisation, and it is of poor quality, they cannot blame their tools, by saying it was the suppliers fault; they should have chosen better suppliers, or paid people with appropriate technical knowledge, to do quality control. Governments also have a responsibility. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
Actually the purchaser does have the ability to decide on the importance of the EMI signature. Many of the laptop products only have to stand up to the A standard. Where as some companies have tougher requirements and require things to stand up to a higher standard. I work for a company that designs bar code scanners. My company is the ONLY organization of them all in the production of large fixed installation scanners that requires our products to pass the B standards rather than class A. (Essentially the class B standards require that you are about 10dB below the class A standards). Not to mention the fact that we require that we pass with at least 3dB of margin so technically we require our products to be 13dB better than we really have to be. Not to mention the rest of the testing that we do on our products. In the large supermarket fixed installation scanners we actually slam a 30 pound bag of lead shot directly onto the scanner from 2 feet. We call this the Turkey Drop test. We also hit the products with 25,000 volts ESD discharges and require that this causes zero failures while the industry standard is 15KV. Anyway the point of the whole thing is that we are the manufacturer and designers of the scanner. We purchase power supplies from Chinese manufacturers and we as the purchaser mandate the requirements of the supply. If we did not there would be no way that we could stand up to our own standards. Honestly I've personally not run much in the way of testing on the laptop power supplies but I do know that we run switchers to power our products. Mainly because we need to be able to support the use of our product worldwide but also because California is now outlawing the use of unregulated transformer based linear supplies in new products. Maybe next time I'm at the lab if I have some free time I'll run some tests on my dell power supply. Honestly I have used my laptop as a host before and have found that with only some very minor mods my Latitude D610 can be made to pass class B. I only had to add a few pf's of capacitance here and there and it works great. But that doesn't mean that I don't still slap ferrites on all of the cables to and from our product that I'm allowed! :) We'll see if I end up with some free time... Although at $350 an our for lab time you tend to get very good use of the time! ;) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
VR2BrettGraham wrote: G3RXQ asked F4FNT about the Dell OEM UPS (probably meaning power supply) for his laptop that made noise G4ILO then added: Actually it was Stewart G3RXQ who asked if the PSU was made in China. I don't have anything against products made in China. Just about everything you buy here in the UK is made in China. Nothing is manufactured here any more. Nobody wants to be an engineer, or do any other job that might involve getting their hands dirty (then they complain about all the immigrants who come here to do the jobs they won't do.) Only on Friday I bought a Revo Pico WiFi Internet radio. On the front of the box it says Proudly Designed in the United Kingdom. On the back it says Made in China. It is a very high quality product and creates no RFI at all. China today will make anything you want. If you want high quality they will make it to your specification, and do it cheaper too. I'm sure they could make K3s to the same specification as Elecraft if Eric wanted them to. - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/-K2--%3A-Laptop-UPS-tp16076670p16091213.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
It makes no RFI at all that bothers you in your situation. The only product that produces no RFI at all is the pet rock. Its all just a matter of degree. On Mon, 2008-03-17 at 02:37 -0700, G4ILO wrote: It is a very high quality product and creates no RFI at all. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
You can't float the laptop power supply. The neutral pin of the plug is connected to the supply ground point as well as the ground pin. There is no ground point on a plastic lap top for the station ground. The only way to float the computer is to unplug the charger, which did work, but only until the battery needs to be charged. The better solution is to plug the laptop into the same circuit as the radios. Most people do not have a choice like I do because houses are usually wired room by room. I don't understand why this simple caveat is generating so many arguments. It is simple, worked for me and doesn't apply to most people. Cookie, K5EWJ --- Brett Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or you could just easily float the laptop then you'd only have one chassis ground. On Sun, 2008-03-16 at 19:36 -0700, WILLIS COOKE wrote: Well I didn't plug it into my K3 with the transformer isolation because my K3 is in its gestation period and I am waiting for delivery. But, I don't think that it would have avoided the problem. I was using transformer isolation with a Rascal Interface. The hum came through the push to talk ground circuit. One of my friends had to replace the transistor PTT interface with an Opto Isolator to eliminate his ground loop problem. I have a separate power feed for my radio equipment that comes from a box at my meter loop and quite different ground length from the house wiring. You need your computer fed from the same power source as the radio equipment even if you have a K3. --- Brett Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is why we transformer isolate our audio. If/when you get a K3 you'll have this feature built right into the rig. For me I just built a cable for the PSK/RTTY and what not and put transformers in a box in the middle of the cable. On Sun, 2008-03-16 at 05:57 -0700, WILLIS COOKE wrote: I don't know if it applies to your situation or not Raymond, but I had a lot of hum on when I connected my 110V Lap top to my TS-850 for PSK-31. I had the charger plugged into a house circuit and my radio equipment plugged into a separate circuit for the radio station. When I moved the charger plug to the radio circuit the hum went away. --- Raymond METZGER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elecrafters, I am interested to know what solution can be used to avoid the noise generated by the 220 V AC (OEM) UPS of my recent Dell Latitude Laptop. For the time being, I can only use the laptop with my K2/100 if the laptop is powered by its internal battery. Raymond METZGER F4FNT K2 5,636 - K3 expected at month end (ordered 8 September, Katiegram received last Friday) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
Brett Howard wrote: California is now outlawing the use of unregulated transformer based linear supplies in new products. Oh, great. Although as you point out it is possible to make a quiet switcher, it's also cheaper to make one that will wipe out everything for a 100-yard radius. Let me tell you about this high-intensity lamp that I have...actually, it does have some value; it can be used as a noise generator to align the filters in my K2. Now *every* piece of electrical junk will have one! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
The only product that produces no RFI at all is the pet rock. Even rock has a radiation signature.. BTW - If you are worried about radiation, don't do a walking tour of Edinburgh, Scotland... Granite is 'radio' active -- Dave G. KK7SS '65 MK III Sprite in Richland, WA Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. But I'm not so sure about the universe. ... Albert Einstein. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
Yea the ones that qualify have to say Efficiency Level IV on it (or something like that). Essentially some European group did a study and stated that if you took the passive load of all the unregulated bricks that are in Europe it would total up to one power plant or something like that... I wasn't paying too close of attention as I usually just splat down the same supply that I used prior unless I can find something cheaper. In which case I usually follow the app note and the demo board and all is well... As for the brick its just one more requirement that I have to make sure we get taken care of and that we get the brick labeled properly for all the regulatory garbage... :) But yes California heard about this and was like wow if we get rid of all those passive loads from bricks that are plugged into products that are turned off we'll save all sorts of money. That and the power system in CA already seems a bit fragile at times Works for me... Oregon makes quite a bit of money selling power to you guys!! :) -Original Message- From: Vic K2VCO [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 7:41 AM To: Brett Howard Cc: Elecraft Users Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS Brett Howard wrote: California is now outlawing the use of unregulated transformer based linear supplies in new products. Oh, great. Although as you point out it is possible to make a quiet switcher, it's also cheaper to make one that will wipe out everything for a 100-yard radius. Let me tell you about this high-intensity lamp that I have...actually, it does have some value; it can be used as a noise generator to align the filters in my K2. Now *every* piece of electrical junk will have one! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
The only product that produces no RFI at all is the pet rock. Even rock has a radiation signature.. BTW - If you are worried about radiation, don't do a walking tour of Edinburgh, Scotland... Granite is 'radio' active Noted! ;) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS [OT Direction]
Brett Howard wrote: But yes California heard about this and was like wow if we get rid of all those passive loads from bricks that are plugged into products that are turned off we'll save all sorts of money. Can they spell hot standby? Cold starts are not good for a lot of electronics, to say nothing about frequency stability. BTW, I am a Registered Professional Electrical Engineer with a California (and Oregon and Nevada and Utah) license, at that. That and the power system in CA already seems a bit fragile at times A contrived situation whose blame can be laid squarely on the games being played by the two large private utilities - Pacific Gas Electric and Southern California Edison. Surprising how the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, a municipally-owned major electric utility, doesn't have those reliability problems. Works for me... Oregon makes quite a bit of money selling power to you guys!! :) Is it Oregon or is it Bonneville Power Administration, a Federal agency? But is doesn't seem to trickle down. Both Pacific Power and Portland General Electric buy significant amounts of cheap hydro power from BPA but seem to have raised rates nearly double in the decade that we've been here (or maybe we just use more, what with my comm room on standby power 24/7... including my K2, of course! g 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
Hi Elecrafters, I am interested to know what solution can be used to avoid the noise generated by the 220 V AC (OEM) UPS of my recent Dell Latitude Laptop. For the time being, I can only use the laptop with my K2/100 if the laptop is powered by its internal battery. Raymond METZGER F4FNT K2 5,636 - K3 expected at month end (ordered 8 September, Katiegram received last Friday) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
By any chance was the UPS manufactured in China ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:05:37 +0100, Raymond METZGER wrote: Hi Elecrafters, I am interested to know what solution can be used to avoid the noise generated by the 220 V AC (OEM) UPS of my recent Dell Latitude Laptop. For the time being, I can only use the laptop with my K2/100 if the laptop is powered by its internal battery. Raymond METZGER F4FNT K2 5,636 - K3 expected at month end (ordered 8 September, Katiegram received last Friday) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
I don't know if it applies to your situation or not Raymond, but I had a lot of hum on when I connected my 110V Lap top to my TS-850 for PSK-31. I had the charger plugged into a house circuit and my radio equipment plugged into a separate circuit for the radio station. When I moved the charger plug to the radio circuit the hum went away. --- Raymond METZGER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elecrafters, I am interested to know what solution can be used to avoid the noise generated by the 220 V AC (OEM) UPS of my recent Dell Latitude Laptop. For the time being, I can only use the laptop with my K2/100 if the laptop is powered by its internal battery. Raymond METZGER F4FNT K2 5,636 - K3 expected at month end (ordered 8 September, Katiegram received last Friday) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
Raymond I have an IBM Thinkpad with the same problem. I replaced the IBM switching power supply with an older analog power supply and the problem went away (at least from power supply noise). The laptop still generates some noise itself, but much less than the power supply did. Good luck and 73 Bob N6WG - Original Message - From: Raymond METZGER [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:05 AM Subject: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS Hi Elecrafters, I am interested to know what solution can be used to avoid the noise generated by the 220 V AC (OEM) UPS of my recent Dell Latitude Laptop. For the time being, I can only use the laptop with my K2/100 if the laptop is powered by its internal battery. Raymond METZGER F4FNT K2 5,636 - K3 expected at month end (ordered 8 September, Katiegram received last Friday) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
Stewart Baker wrote: By any chance was the UPS manufactured in China ? That's not a very fair bet; almost every bit of consumer electronics is manufactured in China or has most of its components manufactured there. However, if the suggestion is the responsibility for poor EMC lies in China, that's not true. A lot of the responsibility comes down to the purchasers, who want minimum prices and do not care about features that only benefit non-purchasers. Beyond that are the marketing organisations that wouldn't know what EMC measurements actually mean, and the corporate management that only knows how to manipulate the stock market. If you buy something from a UK/US marketing organisation, and it is of poor quality, they cannot blame their tools, by saying it was the suppliers fault; they should have chosen better suppliers, or paid people with appropriate technical knowledge, to do quality control. Governments also have a responsibility. -- David Woolley The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio List Guidelines http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
Hi Stewart, Yes, the 90 W AC power supply of my Dell is made in China. Do you mean there is a special treatment against the Chinese syndroma ? Raymond F4FNT -Message d'origine- De : Stewart Baker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : dimanche 16 mars 2008 13:53 À : Raymond METZGER; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Objet : Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS By any chance was the UPS manufactured in China ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:05:37 +0100, Raymond METZGER wrote: I am interested to know what solution can be used to avoid the noise generated by the 220 V AC (OEM) UPS of my recent Dell Latitude Laptop. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
Well I didn't plug it into my K3 with the transformer isolation because my K3 is in its gestation period and I am waiting for delivery. But, I don't think that it would have avoided the problem. I was using transformer isolation with a Rascal Interface. The hum came through the push to talk ground circuit. One of my friends had to replace the transistor PTT interface with an Opto Isolator to eliminate his ground loop problem. I have a separate power feed for my radio equipment that comes from a box at my meter loop and quite different ground length from the house wiring. You need your computer fed from the same power source as the radio equipment even if you have a K3. --- Brett Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is why we transformer isolate our audio. If/when you get a K3 you'll have this feature built right into the rig. For me I just built a cable for the PSK/RTTY and what not and put transformers in a box in the middle of the cable. On Sun, 2008-03-16 at 05:57 -0700, WILLIS COOKE wrote: I don't know if it applies to your situation or not Raymond, but I had a lot of hum on when I connected my 110V Lap top to my TS-850 for PSK-31. I had the charger plugged into a house circuit and my radio equipment plugged into a separate circuit for the radio station. When I moved the charger plug to the radio circuit the hum went away. --- Raymond METZGER [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Elecrafters, I am interested to know what solution can be used to avoid the noise generated by the 220 V AC (OEM) UPS of my recent Dell Latitude Laptop. For the time being, I can only use the laptop with my K2/100 if the laptop is powered by its internal battery. Raymond METZGER F4FNT K2 5,636 - K3 expected at month end (ordered 8 September, Katiegram received last Friday) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] [K2] : Laptop UPS
G3RXQ asked F4FNT about the Dell OEM UPS (probably meaning power supply) for his laptop that made noise G4ILO then added: By any chance was the UPS manufactured in China ? That's not a very fair bet; almost every bit of consumer electronics is manufactured in China or has most of its components manufactured there. However, if the suggestion is the responsibility for poor EMC lies in China, that's not true. A lot of the responsibility comes down to the purchasers, who want minimum prices and do not care about features that only benefit non-purchasers. An OEM laptop supply originally sold into EU will have had to conform with EN-something-I-can't-recall-now (conducted radiated emissions standard). Either that standard is not sufficient for F4FNT's circumstances or that particular supply conducts and/or radiates more than it should. Where a product is assembled generally has nothing to do with its design. This particular kind of product will have little room for assembly to impact EMC performance, whilst the design will. G4ILO is spot on - basically you get what you pay for if there is a demand for cheaper products, then somebody is going to supply them. EMC is an area where it is easy to cut BOM costs get away with it, as for the vast majority of consumers it does not matter many countries don't seem to bother to make sure product delivered actually meets the standards insisted upon. 73, VR2/KBrett7Graham/p. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
