Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
At present I do not have a K3. I do have an old Tentec 580 Delta and a Icom 703 plus, KX1. The enclosed speakers in both rigs perform nicely. However, I use a ADCOM digital Speaker on both rigs and it makes a big difference. I have had a lot of rigs like Drake, Swan Etc, If the speaker was in the same enclosure with the Power supply no improvement was needed. On the KX1 I have an old, really old Audio Amp. from Radio Shack and it produces some beautiful audio. It seems when the speaker is in the radio... It is tolerable bur an outboard speaker is better. Just my opinion. Paul Gates, KD3JF --- On Mon, 4/6/09, John Klewer wrote: From: John Klewer Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, April 6, 2009, 11:46 PM Perhaps I'm in the minority hereusing some nice quality hi-fi bookshelf speakers.I love the way the K3 sounds. YMMV John, N6AX Mike Scott wrote: >> Audio is notorious for having a very subjective vocabulary, and this may >> > make it hard to understand what is meant. I hear terms like hissy, rounder, > lack of bass etc in this discussion. In an attempt to make this discussion > more to the point I would suggest this list compiled by Bruce Bartlett from > Pro Audio 1997. I find it helpful in making discussions focused: > http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/sd-qulty.gif > > > > >> According to the list, I would suggest that those who have a problem with >> > the K3 audio look up these terms: > > > > >> 'bright', 'edgy', 'grainy', 'grungy', 'hard', 'harsh', 'muddy', >> > 'piercing', 'thin' > > > > >> to find what best describes what they hear. That may give a common ground >> > for describing the effects. > > > > Okay, based on the referenced descriptions I can 100% definitely with > absolute assurance say that my K3 audio is edgy, grainy, grungy and > strident. Now can we get on with a solution? > > > > > > Mike Scott > > Tarzana, CA > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
> 1 and 2. On the line output I see a little less bass than the other > outputs > and I would expect this since it has a transformer in line that the > speaker > and phone output doesn't. In fact I don't see a change if I go crazy > boosting RX RQ bands 1 and 2. Jay, Here are my SpectraPlus FFT plots for the IC-7800 (Magenta), IC-7700 (Blue), Ten Tec Omni VII (Red), and Elecraft K3 (Yellow). Each plot was taken from the respective headphone output and the volume level adjusted in order to show an uncluttered overlay. http://216.229.20.37/images/ResponsePlots.JPG To achieve a reasonably flat low-end response on the K3 requires an FC shift to about 1.25 from 1.50. But in doing so, note how the high end response is now limited to about 3.2 kHz (See yellow trace). Not surprising, the IC-7700 and IC-7800 traces can be laid on top of each with a nearly identical response. Both produce a response bump between 100 Hz - 300 Hz. The Ten Tec Omni VII produces the best overall Rx response of the four rigs tested. I wish I still had the TS-870 for these tests as it measured ruler-flat out of the box from 30 Hz to 6 kHz. Regarding the K3's Rx EQ, I see substantial Rx EQ changes on bands 2-8 when adjustments are made, but no change on band 1 when adjusted from one extreme to the other. It simply has no effect. I've tried various alternate settings to see if I could engage band 1 to move, but so far, no luck. It doesn't bother me as I leave the EQ flat. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
Hi Joe, You wrote: >> > Please NO! I already run RX Audio bands 1 and 2 at -16 dB to >> > eliminate excessive bass - no more bass, please! You also wrote: > You won't see much on the headphone output because of the 10 uF > coupling capacitors. The effect is quite obvious on both the > speaker output and the line output (if you have made the line > out modification [R19/20] in K3AF Mod Rev 3). > > If you replace the 10 uF headphone coupling capacitors with > 330 uF caps as recommended by W9AC the headphone output will > more like a good external speaker. On Paul's mods, I've been there and done that on both a stock K3 and a modified one. I still don't hear the excessive bass you were mentioning and more important I can't measure it! I went back this morning and measured the speaker out and for that matter all other outputs for fun. When I go to RX EQ bands 1 and 2 and put them at -16 dB I see a gentle roll off starting at 200 hz. However I see the same gentle roll off at zero dB on RX EQ bands 1 and 2. On the line output I see a little less bass than the other outputs and I would expect this since it has a transformer in line that the speaker and phone output doesn't. In fact I don't see a change if I go crazy boosting RX RQ bands 1 and 2. Joe, I am not complaining mind you, I am just not seeing this excessive bass you posted in your message at zero or a huge reduction in bass response at -16 on bands 1 and 2. LO cut is still at 0, I am still on LSB at 2.8 BW. So I am still must be missing something here. BTW this K3 has all the AF, speaker mods, per the K3 Enhancement and Application Notes page. Also I do run from time to time a nice bookshelve and external amp speaker system. The walls are very safe here from excessive bass response. 73 de jay/w5jay.. > >> Looking at Spectra right out of the Phones output, I don't >> see where bands 1or 2 do all that much in lowering K3's bass. > > You won't see much on the headphone output because of the 10 uF > coupling capacitors. The effect is quite obvious on both the > speaker output and the line output (if you have made the line > out modification [R19/20] in K3AF Mod Rev 3). > > If you replace the 10 uF headphone coupling capacitors with > 330 uF caps as recommended by W9AC the headphone output will > more like a good external speaker. > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > >> >> >> Hi Joe, >> Looking at Spectra right out of the Phones output, I don't >> see where bands >> 1or 2 do all that much in lowering K3's bass. >> >> Having the rig on SSB using the 2.7 Khz filter, the "Lo" on >> 0, I see no >> change on bands 1 and 2 when I set them to -16. What I am >> missing here? I >> have never seen or heard too much bass in the K3. >> >> I did a plot at 0 dB, one at -16 on band 1 and another one on >> -16 on band 2 >> if anyone would like to see them. >> >> 73 de w5jay/jay.. >> >> >> >> > >> >> Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low >> >> frequencies in the passband. >> > >> > Please NO! I already run RX Audio bands 1 and 2 at -16 dB to >> > eliminate excessive bass - no more bass, please! >> > >> > The hiss many seem to be complaining about is broadband >> noise in the >> > audio (speaker) and/or headphone amplifier. It is more noticeable >> > when driving low impedance loads (8/16 Ohm) due to the >> relatively high >> > gain (14 dB) of the speaker amplifier and the high >> frequency boosting >> > effect of the 33 pF capacitors in parallel with the gain setting >> > (feedback resistors). >> > >> > 73, >> > >> > ... Joe, W4TV >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> I concur with what has been said regarding the "hissy" audio. The >> >> receiver audio seems to be on the mid-range to high frequency side >> >> without enough low frequencies in the passband. >> Experiments with RX >> >> EQ apparently have not done anything to eliminate this hiss, but >> >> maybe the firmware can be adjusted to increase the low-end >> response >> >> of the receiver passband. If this doesn't work, maybe a component >> >> change is in order. >> >> >> >> I also think the noise reduction is too sharp in both SSB and CW. >> >> Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low frequencies in the >> >> passband. >> >> >> >> Roy Morris W4WFB >> >> K2 #2225 >> >> K3 #323 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
> Looking at Spectra right out of the Phones output, I don't > see where bands 1or 2 do all that much in lowering K3's bass. You won't see much on the headphone output because of the 10 uF coupling capacitors. The effect is quite obvious on both the speaker output and the line output (if you have made the line out modification [R19/20] in K3AF Mod Rev 3). If you replace the 10 uF headphone coupling capacitors with 330 uF caps as recommended by W9AC the headphone output will more like a good external speaker. 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -Original Message- > From: Jay Bromley [mailto:jayw5...@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:47 PM > To: li...@subich.com; 'Roy Morris'; elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio > > > Hi Joe, > Looking at Spectra right out of the Phones output, I don't > see where bands > 1or 2 do all that much in lowering K3's bass. > > Having the rig on SSB using the 2.7 Khz filter, the "Lo" on > 0, I see no > change on bands 1 and 2 when I set them to -16. What I am > missing here? I > have never seen or heard too much bass in the K3. > > I did a plot at 0 dB, one at -16 on band 1 and another one on > -16 on band 2 > if anyone would like to see them. > > 73 de w5jay/jay.. > > > > > > >> Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low > >> frequencies in the passband. > > > > Please NO! I already run RX Audio bands 1 and 2 at -16 dB to > > eliminate excessive bass - no more bass, please! > > > > The hiss many seem to be complaining about is broadband > noise in the > > audio (speaker) and/or headphone amplifier. It is more noticeable > > when driving low impedance loads (8/16 Ohm) due to the > relatively high > > gain (14 dB) of the speaker amplifier and the high > frequency boosting > > effect of the 33 pF capacitors in parallel with the gain setting > > (feedback resistors). > > > > 73, > > > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > > > > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > >> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Roy Morris > >> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 2:01 PM > >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio > >> > >> > >> I concur with what has been said regarding the "hissy" audio. The > >> receiver audio seems to be on the mid-range to high frequency side > >> without enough low frequencies in the passband. > Experiments with RX > >> EQ apparently have not done anything to eliminate this hiss, but > >> maybe the firmware can be adjusted to increase the low-end > response > >> of the receiver passband. If this doesn't work, maybe a component > >> change is in order. > >> > >> I also think the noise reduction is too sharp in both SSB and CW. > >> Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low frequencies in the > >> passband. > >> > >> Roy Morris W4WFB > >> K2 #2225 > >> K3 #323 > >> K3 #2810 > >> __ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
Perhaps I'm in the minority hereusing some nice quality hi-fi bookshelf speakers.I love the way the K3 sounds. YMMV John, N6AX Mike Scott wrote: >> Audio is notorious for having a very subjective vocabulary, and this may >> > make it hard to understand what is meant. I hear terms like hissy, rounder, > lack of bass etc in this discussion. In an attempt to make this discussion > more to the point I would suggest this list compiled by Bruce Bartlett from > Pro Audio 1997. I find it helpful in making discussions focused: > http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/sd-qulty.gif > > > > >> According to the list, I would suggest that those who have a problem with >> > the K3 audio look up these terms: > > > > >> 'bright', 'edgy', 'grainy', 'grungy', 'hard', 'harsh', 'muddy', >> > 'piercing', 'thin' > > > > >> to find what best describes what they hear. That may give a common ground >> > for describing the effects. > > > > Okay, based on the referenced descriptions I can 100% definitely with > absolute assurance say that my K3 audio is edgy, grainy, grungy and > strident. Now can we get on with a solution? > > > > > > Mike Scott > > Tarzana, CA > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
>Audio is notorious for having a very subjective vocabulary, and this may make it hard to understand what is meant. I hear terms like hissy, rounder, lack of bass etc in this discussion. In an attempt to make this discussion more to the point I would suggest this list compiled by Bruce Bartlett from Pro Audio 1997. I find it helpful in making discussions focused: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/sd-qulty.gif >According to the list, I would suggest that those who have a problem with the K3 audio look up these terms: > 'bright', 'edgy', 'grainy', 'grungy', 'hard', 'harsh', 'muddy', 'piercing', 'thin' > to find what best describes what they hear. That may give a common ground for describing the effects. Okay, based on the referenced descriptions I can 100% definitely with absolute assurance say that my K3 audio is edgy, grainy, grungy and strident. Now can we get on with a solution? Mike Scott Tarzana, CA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
> You are right Jay. Bands 1 and 2 do nothing. There's nothing to reduce! On my modified K3, adjusting band 2 (100Hz) will produce bone-jarring bass when boosted above +5 dB. However, even though my moded K3 easily produces audible beats down to 30 Hz, adjusting Rx EQ band 1 (50 Hz) has no effect whatsoever. I just tired this by approaching zero-beat on a CW carrier, then backing off the display frequency in 50 Hz and 100 Hz increments. Band 2 works quite well while band 1 seems to produce no change in Rx EQ. Lyle/Wayne, can you confirm that band 1 is actually engaged in the firmware? If it is, then there's some other causation pre-AF amp. Paul, W9AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
There seems to be no consensus as to what the "hiss" or "noise" is. Therefore, there is no consensus on how to fix it. This noise, whatever it is, is something I can live with because I think the K3 is the best overall transceiver I have owned to date. Forget this noise thing. My main concern is the noise reduction. I DO wish it could be improved. It is too sharp in the SSB mode. I can live with the sharp CW mode. It is harsh at some audio frequencies regardless of NR settings. I find the F1-1 setting to be tolerable, and it goes downhill from there. Wayne, you stated you wanted to make a comparison with another transceiver. Listen to the noise reduction on an Omni VII in SSB mode. It does not generate sharp artifacts on a SSB signal regardless of whether a speaker or headphones are used. With the NR turned on and the appropriate amount of attenuation inserted during heavy QRN conditions, the Omni VII almost sounds like it is squelched. The signal just pops out of nowhere. Noise reduction is better on the K3 in CW mode, however. It sounds mushy on the Omni VII. I hope something can be done to improve the NR in SSB mode. Thanks. Roy Morris W4WFB K2 #2225 K3 # 323 K3 # 2810 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
You are right Jay. Bands 1 and 2 do nothing. There's nothing to reduce! Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Jay Bromley" To: ; "'Roy Morris'" ; Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio > Hi Joe, > Looking at Spectra right out of the Phones output, I don't see where bands > 1or 2 do all that much in lowering K3's bass. > > Having the rig on SSB using the 2.7 Khz filter, the "Lo" on 0, I see no > change on bands 1 and 2 when I set them to -16. What I am missing here? > I > have never seen or heard too much bass in the K3. > > I did a plot at 0 dB, one at -16 on band 1 and another one on -16 on band > 2 > if anyone would like to see them. > > 73 de w5jay/jay.. > > > >> >>> Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low >>> frequencies in the passband. >> >> Please NO! I already run RX Audio bands 1 and 2 at -16 dB to >> eliminate excessive bass - no more bass, please! >> >> The hiss many seem to be complaining about is broadband noise >> in the audio (speaker) and/or headphone amplifier. It is more >> noticeable when driving low impedance loads (8/16 Ohm) due to >> the relatively high gain (14 dB) of the speaker amplifier >> and the high frequency boosting effect of the 33 pF capacitors >> in parallel with the gain setting (feedback resistors). >> >> 73, >> >> ... Joe, W4TV >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message- >>> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net >>> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Roy Morris >>> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 2:01 PM >>> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio >>> >>> >>> I concur with what has been said regarding the "hissy" audio. >>> The receiver audio seems to be on the mid-range to high >>> frequency side without enough low frequencies in the >>> passband. Experiments with RX EQ apparently have not done >>> anything to eliminate this hiss, but maybe the firmware can >>> be adjusted to increase the low-end response of the receiver >>> passband. If this doesn't work, maybe a component change is in order. >>> >>> I also think the noise reduction is too sharp in both SSB and >>> CW. Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low >>> frequencies in the passband. >>> >>> Roy Morris W4WFB >>> K2 #2225 >>> K3 #323 >>> K3 #2810 >>> __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
Hi Joe, Looking at Spectra right out of the Phones output, I don't see where bands 1or 2 do all that much in lowering K3's bass. Having the rig on SSB using the 2.7 Khz filter, the "Lo" on 0, I see no change on bands 1 and 2 when I set them to -16. What I am missing here? I have never seen or heard too much bass in the K3. I did a plot at 0 dB, one at -16 on band 1 and another one on -16 on band 2 if anyone would like to see them. 73 de w5jay/jay.. > >> Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low >> frequencies in the passband. > > Please NO! I already run RX Audio bands 1 and 2 at -16 dB to > eliminate excessive bass - no more bass, please! > > The hiss many seem to be complaining about is broadband noise > in the audio (speaker) and/or headphone amplifier. It is more > noticeable when driving low impedance loads (8/16 Ohm) due to > the relatively high gain (14 dB) of the speaker amplifier > and the high frequency boosting effect of the 33 pF capacitors > in parallel with the gain setting (feedback resistors). > > 73, > > ... Joe, W4TV > > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net >> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Roy Morris >> Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 2:01 PM >> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio >> >> >> I concur with what has been said regarding the "hissy" audio. >> The receiver audio seems to be on the mid-range to high >> frequency side without enough low frequencies in the >> passband. Experiments with RX EQ apparently have not done >> anything to eliminate this hiss, but maybe the firmware can >> be adjusted to increase the low-end response of the receiver >> passband. If this doesn't work, maybe a component change is in order. >> >> I also think the noise reduction is too sharp in both SSB and >> CW. Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low >> frequencies in the passband. >> >> Roy Morris W4WFB >> K2 #2225 >> K3 #323 >> K3 #2810 >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
> Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low > frequencies in the passband. Please NO! I already run RX Audio bands 1 and 2 at -16 dB to eliminate excessive bass - no more bass, please! The hiss many seem to be complaining about is broadband noise in the audio (speaker) and/or headphone amplifier. It is more noticeable when driving low impedance loads (8/16 Ohm) due to the relatively high gain (14 dB) of the speaker amplifier and the high frequency boosting effect of the 33 pF capacitors in parallel with the gain setting (feedback resistors). 73, ... Joe, W4TV > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Roy Morris > Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 2:01 PM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio > > > I concur with what has been said regarding the "hissy" audio. > The receiver audio seems to be on the mid-range to high > frequency side without enough low frequencies in the > passband. Experiments with RX EQ apparently have not done > anything to eliminate this hiss, but maybe the firmware can > be adjusted to increase the low-end response of the receiver > passband. If this doesn't work, maybe a component change is in order. > > I also think the noise reduction is too sharp in both SSB and > CW. Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low > frequencies in the passband. > > Roy Morris W4WFB > K2 #2225 > K3 #323 > K3 #2810 > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
Sverre, What's great about this vocabulary (and Ed, W0YK, who is a master vintner may want to comment) is that you can use this same wonderfully imprecise audio vocabulary to describe another object of notoriously subjective taste -- wine. For example, I've been tempted to hit Ed with the following for one of his Muns Vineyard Pinot Noir vintages: "Solid bass, a bit lacking in the mid-range, but with a good top end." 73, andy, ae6y - Original Message - From: "Sverre Holm" To: Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 2:29 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio Audio is notorious for having a very subjective vocabulary, and this may make it hard to understand what is meant. I hear terms like hissy, rounder, lack of bass etc in this discussion. In an attempt to make this discussion more to the point I would suggest this list compiled by Bruce Bartlett from Pro Audio 1997. I find it helpful in making discussions focused: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/sd-qulty.gif According to the list, I would suggest that those who have a problem with the K3 audio look up these terms: 'bright', 'edgy', 'grainy', 'grungy', 'hard', 'harsh', 'muddy', 'piercing', 'thin' to find what best describes what they hear. That may give a common ground for describing the effects. Sverre F/LA3ZA > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
After reading all the postings about audio, I tried a couple of different ear sets. I set all but my equalizer to normal settings for SSB. My equalizer I didn't touch until I tried to see the impact when I tried different earbuds. I do not have Heil pro's as I don't like the cover the ear devices because they cause me to sweat and I cannot hear the wife when she's needing something. I find the adjustments for all the settings on the equalizers work for me with the earbuds. I can distinguish changes. I also tried the offset and that can help with either base or treble boost as well. The first headset was an inexpensive Sony stereo earbuds(108 dbm sensitivity which is very good). Then I tried my studio quality Shure e5c's which have much greater sensitivity, I forget the amount, but it is enough to hear the audio hiss or noise floor of the K3. The K3 is not studio quality audio and I doubt any of them are and I did not try this on any other radio). I generally don't use headsets so with the speakers, audio quality seems superior to other rigs I own (TS2000 and IC7000). I have always liked my 3 K2's! Perhaps there is a relationship between some of the radios and audio devices which are connected to the K3 that create the issues. I use a Vertex MLS-100 mobile external speaker, and I have it literally in front of me so I can hear it with light audio settings. There is zero hiss from the radio and the audio is excellent. I don't know if this is of any help, but the time taken keeps me from avoiding other work. Hope you and others are able to find a suitable solution. 73, Bill K9YEQ K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods ATS-3B -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Arie Kleingeld PA3A I have tried to adjust the audio of the K3 to my liking. Hi side of spectrum: To get rid of the higher freq's I set the RX-eq 8 to minus 8dB. Lo side of the spectrum: I tried out the RX-eq 1 and 2. Absolutely no difference! Not even with the lo cut set to zero. RX-eq 3 (200Hz) responded better. Set this to plus 8dB I sure wish that the 100Hz and 50Hz (RX-eq 1 and 2) would show some response. Low frequencies seem to be absent. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
Audio is notorious for having a very subjective vocabulary, and this may make it hard to understand what is meant. I hear terms like hissy, rounder, lack of bass etc in this discussion. In an attempt to make this discussion more to the point I would suggest this list compiled by Bruce Bartlett from Pro Audio 1997. I find it helpful in making discussions focused: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/images/graphics/sd-qulty.gif According to the list, I would suggest that those who have a problem with the K3 audio look up these terms: 'bright', 'edgy', 'grainy', 'grungy', 'hard', 'harsh', 'muddy', 'piercing', 'thin' to find what best describes what they hear. That may give a common ground for describing the effects. Sverre F/LA3ZA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
I have tried to adjust the audio of the K3 to my liking. Hi side of spectrum: To get rid of the higher freq's I set the RX-eq 8 to minus 8dB. Lo side of the spectrum: I tried out the RX-eq 1 and 2. Absolutely no difference! Not even with the lo cut set to zero. RX-eq 3 (200Hz) responded better. Set this to plus 8dB This gives a 'rounder' sound to my ears. I sure wish that the 100Hz and 50Hz (RX-eq 1 and 2) would show some response. Low frequencies seem to be absent. K3 #1255, IF-setting: Mode LSB 2.7k 5-pole roofing DSP to norm first, adjusted lo cut to seek for lo freq response Headset: Heil-pro type, 320 ohm measured resistance. 73, Arie PA3A __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
Have you tried setting the receive equalizer? I set mine for the audio I like to hear I don't have the issue, sometimes I find exactly the opposite depending on all my settings and then decide whether I would like to touch the settings up a bit. (I did just get high marks from a recent hearing test. I told the wife I in fact must have selective hearing :-) 73, Bill K9YEQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steve Ellington Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:22 PM To: Roy Morris; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio Roy Is what you call "hissy" just a lack of bass? I think of "hissy" as high pitched white noise, like wind blowing through a narrow pipe. Is that what you hear? Adding low freq. audio won't reduce hiss at all but I don't think we are dealing with hiss. I think the lack of bass gives us the perception of a tinny, narrow sound, not hiss. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Roy Morris" To: Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 2:01 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio >I concur with what has been said regarding the "hissy" audio. The receiver >audio seems to be on the mid-range to high frequency side without enough >low frequencies in the passband. Experiments with RX EQ apparently have >not done anything to eliminate this hiss, but maybe the firmware can be >adjusted to increase the low-end response of the receiver passband. If >this doesn't work, maybe a component change is in order. > > I also think the noise reduction is too sharp in both SSB and CW. Perhaps > NR could also be improved with more low frequencies in the passband. > > Roy Morris W4WFB > K2 #2225 > K3 #323 > K3 #2810 > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
Roy Is what you call "hissy" just a lack of bass? I think of "hissy" as high pitched white noise, like wind blowing through a narrow pipe. Is that what you hear? Adding low freq. audio won't reduce hiss at all but I don't think we are dealing with hiss. I think the lack of bass gives us the perception of a tinny, narrow sound, not hiss. Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com - Original Message - From: "Roy Morris" To: Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 2:01 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio >I concur with what has been said regarding the "hissy" audio. The receiver >audio seems to be on the mid-range to high frequency side without enough >low frequencies in the passband. Experiments with RX EQ apparently have >not done anything to eliminate this hiss, but maybe the firmware can be >adjusted to increase the low-end response of the receiver passband. If >this doesn't work, maybe a component change is in order. > > I also think the noise reduction is too sharp in both SSB and CW. Perhaps > NR could also be improved with more low frequencies in the passband. > > Roy Morris W4WFB > K2 #2225 > K3 #323 > K3 #2810 > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3 Hissy and Noisy Audio
I concur with what has been said regarding the "hissy" audio. The receiver audio seems to be on the mid-range to high frequency side without enough low frequencies in the passband. Experiments with RX EQ apparently have not done anything to eliminate this hiss, but maybe the firmware can be adjusted to increase the low-end response of the receiver passband. If this doesn't work, maybe a component change is in order. I also think the noise reduction is too sharp in both SSB and CW. Perhaps NR could also be improved with more low frequencies in the passband. Roy Morris W4WFB K2 #2225 K3 #323 K3 #2810 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
