Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
I agree with you Jim. For years I've operated digital modes with a direct
connection between the IN's and OUT's of the sound card to the radio. Using
the VOX to control the T/R sequence {and any radio worth it's salt has a
good VOX, although many don't} does the trick nicely.
Now, if you end up with humm or buzz that indicates that you have other
issues that need to be addressed in your station. These are typically RFI
or ground loops. Addition of transformers for isolation is a Band-Aid fix
as the typical transformers have serious ringing when not correctly
terminated. Also they are very prone to introduction of humm from power
supply sources.
With this approach, using available free software, one can record audio
direct from the receiver and play it back direct to the transmitter to give
other stations an idea of how their signal sounds at your QTH. I've done
this many times to assist others in getting an idea of how their transmitter
and audio path sounds on the air.
73
Bob, K4TAX
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Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
Playback can also be done very nicely, without involving your computer, with the very slick KDVR3 in the K3. Rick K6LE On 4/6/2010, at 6:55 , Bob McGraw - K4TAX wrote: Snip With this approach, using available free software, one can record audio direct from the receiver and play it back direct to the transmitter to give other stations an idea of how their signal sounds at your QTH. I've done this many times to assist others in getting an idea of how their transmitter and audio path sounds on the air. 73 Bob, K4TAX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
I have a question about PSK31, sound cards and the K3. I am currently set up to use my K3 with the LP-Pan for a pandapter spectrum display on computer. I am currently using a separate USB sound card (E-Mu 0202) as the sound card for this interface. Someone told me that using the same sound card for Panadapter and PSK31 would create problems. While I know I could run the K3 directly to the computer using audio in/out connections, using my computer's internal sound card also has problems, from what I was told. I am planning to use the K3 for some public service events and I was hoping to include PSK31 as part of the process. To do this everything needs to be simple and reliable, we don't want to have to do a lot of fiddling with equipment during the events. It has been recommended to me that I get the SignaLink USB interface because it is easy to work with and reliable. Am I making this too complicated? Or is it better to have two separate independent USB sound cards to work things simultaneously? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
On Apr 4, 2010, at 11:22 PM, George A. Thornton wrote: It has been recommended to me that I get the SignaLink USB interface because it is easy to work with and reliable. The SignaLink USB contains two functions: (a) a 16-bit sound card (Burr-Brown 2909 chip) and (b) an audio activated (VOX) circuit to key the PTT line of a transceiver when audio is present from the computer. I can't think of any advantage of using an external VOX device when the K3 already has that function in DATA A mode. I.e., the function (b) is already provided by the K3, and with very flexible VOX Gain adjustment using the K3 Menu. The SignaLink is a decent interface for rigs that don't support VOX for digital modes. With the K3, you can save money by just buying a simple sound card (e.g., http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic) instead of the SignaLink USB. The usual reason given for using a separate sound card instead of the built-in speaker/headphones of the computer is so that chimes, alert sounds and music from the computer don't accidentally go out on the air (especially when the transmitter is keyed through VOX). Just connect the line-output from the sound card to the line-input of the K3 (note that the K3 line-input is a mono jack) and connect the line-output of the K3 to the line-input of the sound card, and you are done with connecting your computer to the K3. Turn on VOX for DATA-A, and you are ready to go after setting up the audio levels. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
Chen has given good advice here, but all jacks on the back of the K3 are mechanically stereo jacks. In the case of line-in, only the tip has an electrical contact (which makes it mono electrical input). So it is convenient to just use a manufactured stereo 3.5mm plug to 3.5mm plug cable to connect from the computer sound card to the K3. Only the left channel from the computer soundcard can be heard by the K3, so make sure your application puts its audio out only the left channel (most do). BTW - you *can* use the EMU202 soundcard for both LP-Pan and digital modes, *but* not at the same time. Using digital modes, one usually has a waterfall display showing the spectrum of interest, and IMHO, the panadapter display is superfluous during those periods, your mileage may vary on that point. Using the default computer soundcard is only a problem if you are trying to use VOX - windows sounds, should they occur will be transmitted as a SSB signal. If you are using PTT generated by the PSK31 application, that problem is not present. Another soundcard is the easiest answer to many potential problems. 73, Don W3FPR Kok Chen wrote: Just connect the line-output from the sound card to the line-input of the K3 (note that the K3 line-input is a mono jack) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
FWIW. I more or less successfully used the K3 for RTTY and a brief taste of PSK (too slow, like watching paint dry) with the internal sound card in my T400 Lenovo laptop. I say more or less, because on occasion, the computer would refuse to output audio to the transmitter. The display would indicate that the signal was being generated by MMTTY but nothing went to the transmitter. This was verified with headphones on the audio out. The effect was seldom using MMTTY standalone, more frequent using AXETTY and nearly unusable using N1MMlogger and MMTTY. This suggests that it was *not* an RFI issue, but a timing issue. Closing and reopening the program would bring it back but this got old. Other than this I had no issues, VOX worked fine, there were no ground loops, levels were easy to set, etc. Nevertheless, rather than fussing with it further, and having another radio that could benefit by it, I opted for the SignaLink USB. Installation wasn't as smooth as advertised, but once done, it runs flawlessly. The interface cables are overpriced but I bought them anyway, one for the K3 and another for the TS870, and I sprang for the header plug that allows easy reconfiguration. Wes N7WS --- On Mon, 4/5/10, Kok Chen c...@mac.com wrote: On Apr 4, 2010, at 11:22 PM, George A. Thornton wrote: It has been recommended to me that I get the SignaLink USB interface because it is easy to work with and reliable. The SignaLink USB contains two functions: (a) a 16-bit sound card (Burr-Brown 2909 chip) and (b) an audio activated (VOX) circuit to key the PTT line of a transceiver when audio is present from the computer. I can't think of any advantage of using an external VOX device when the K3 already has that function in DATA A mode. I.e., the function (b) is already provided by the K3, and with very flexible VOX Gain adjustment using the K3 Menu. The SignaLink is a decent interface for rigs that don't support VOX for digital modes. With the K3, you can save money by just buying a simple sound card (e.g., http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/imic) instead of the SignaLink USB. The usual reason given for using a separate sound card instead of the built-in speaker/headphones of the computer is so that chimes, alert sounds and music from the computer don't accidentally go out on the air (especially when the transmitter is keyed through VOX). Just connect the line-output from the sound card to the line-input of the K3 (note that the K3 line-input is a mono jack) and connect the line-output of the K3 to the line-input of the sound card, and you are done with connecting your computer to the K3. Turn on VOX for DATA-A, and you are ready to go after setting up the audio levels. 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
Wes Stewart wrote: FWIW. I more or less successfully used the K3 for RTTY and a brief taste of PSK (too slow, like watching paint dry Good Morning, Wes... I think you'll be pleased with the SignaLink box. You are right about BPSK31 -- it is a bit slow. My take on this is that people like to fill the buffer and sit back to watch, and I know that some (perhaps 75%) of the users have trouble keeping up on the keyboard with the transmit rate anyhow. If you watch for it, you will find people (particularly the European PSK crowd) who use PSK63 or even PSK125 or PSK250. I am a good typist, and even so I find it takes care and attention just to keep up with PSK63. The other modes are of course even faster. If you're into watching paint dry, try one of the modes like Olivia 16/500. No sweat like when you break a pencil-lead copying CW at 40 wpm. On the other hand, if you like the mystery of having signals come out of nothing, like the Great Pumpkin rising from the Pumpkin Patch, the Olivia modes are great. There are lots of people (again many in the European digi-crowd) who like RTTY. and nowadays it is noise-free (no coffee grinder in the background, no paper tapes to load). I use fldigi and the SignaLink box for all these modes, and it works out just fine. I have used it with my ASUS 910 EEE toy computer and DigiPan...makes a very portable arrangement. For an amusing variation, try a QSO using one of the Hellschreiber modes...see http://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/frank_radio_hell.htm and have fun! SignaLink does that, as well... John Ragle -- W1ZI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
wow - hand copying 40wpm? My hat is off to you hi hi. When I took my Extra exam back in the early 90's, it was right at the limit of my ability to scribble to copy down the text at 20wpm and you had to do a full 5 minutes of it. My right arm was burning pretty good at the end of the tape... Nowadays I just copy with my chin sitting in my hands even at speeds below 20wpm and jot down highlights. I just can't send worth a darn and I never have been able to master the paddles; again at my Extra exam I was so glad they'd long since changed the rules and I wasn't going to have to send at 20wpm for 1 min with no mistakes hi hi. So I'll gladly give up the paddles for the keyboard on CW. I got to listen to a great conversation on 40M last night between two gentlemen describing 350+ countries worked _while mobile_ using a couple of hamsticks. It was all going on somewhere between 25 to 30wpm and I was having a great time reading the mail, but dismayed that I couldn't have joined in using just my paddles. Yeah I know, practice practice hi hi. But soon as I get the laptop working on the table, sorry, the Bencher is going in the bag with the K2 for portable ops hi hi. Still with PSK31, trying it out with cocoaModem, I find I can't keep the buffer full. I can get ahead on simple plain language but throw some numbers and punctuation in there and the buffer catches up pretty quick. 45 baud RTTY is able to keep up with me no problem. Anyway, OT I know... 73 LS W5QD -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-sound-cards-and-PSK31-tp4852409p4853677.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
I think you'll be pleased with the SignaLink box. There is no value to the Signalink that can't be provided by much less expensive USB based soundcards (e.g., UA-580 for $28.95 at Byterunner) or even the $9.95 dongles used to support a headset. Since the K3 provides VOX in the DATA A and AFSK A modes, Chen is completely correct and the SignaLink is a waste for what it is/what it does. If one wants more capability that a basic USB soundcard, there are plenty of multi-function devices that provide CAT, CW, specialized controls, hardware support for some of the special features in fldigi, etc. Even though they are more expensive than Signalink, if the other features are of use (e.g., USB rig control, pFSK/qCW for fldigi, Icom accessory interface, etc.) in your particular shack, the multi-function devices can provide far better value. 73, ... Joe Subich, W4TV microHAM America http://www.microHAM-USA.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM supp...@microham.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: There is no value to the Signalink that can't be provided by much less expensive USB based soundcards ___ The SignaLink schematic shows the same type of isolation transformers already standard in the KIO3. http://www.tigertronics.com/sl_mods.htm 73 - Steve WB6RSE __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 23:58:42 -0700, Kok Chen wrote: The usual reason given for using a separate sound card instead of the built- in speaker/headphones of the computer is so that chimes, alert sounds and music from the computer don't accidentally go out on the air (especially when the transmitter is keyed through VOX). There's a simple fix for this. Go into Windoze Control Panel, open the Sounds and Audio Devices setup screen, click on the Sounds tab, and select No Sounds for the Sound scheme. Click OK and you've slain that dragon. Just connect the line-output from the sound card to the line-input of the K3 (note that the K3 line-input is a mono jack) and connect the line-output of the K3 to the line-input of the sound card, and you are done with connecting your computer to the K3. Turn on VOX for DATA-A, and you are ready to go after setting up the audio levels. Yes. I've always used the sound card built into my Thinkpad laptops for PSK, RTTY, and to play voice messages for SSB contests. Works fine. See my tutorial/app note on Ham Interfacing for simple wiring methods to avoid hum, buzz, and RFI. http://audiosystemsgroup.com/HamInterfacing.pdf There's nothing WRONG with using a Signal Link or something like it, but it is money you don't need to spend if you follow the simple directions in my tutorial. 73, Jim Brown K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
On Apr 5, 2010, at 4/57:33 AM, lstavenhagen wrote: Still with PSK31, trying it out with cocoaModem, I find I can't keep the buffer full. I can get ahead on simple plain language but throw some numbers and punctuation in there and the buffer catches up pretty quick. 45 baud RTTY is able to keep up with me no problem. One thing to keep in mind is that PSK31 (also with DominoEX and Olivia) uses Varicode which encodes lower case characters into fewer bits than upper case characters. Not only will you be sending text faster by using lower case, but there is also a corresponding lower character error rate (for the same SNR) than when using upper case characters. Something to keep in mind when you engage in a pileup or a digital mode contest :-). With BPSK31 Varicode, average English text (mostly lower case) takes about 6-1/2 bits per character, yielding about 5 characters per second, or just about 48 WPM if an average word is 5 characters plus a space. Standard Baudot RTTY is 60 WPM. So BPSK31 is a little bit slower than Baudot RTTY even when you type mostly lower case in PSK31. PSK63 will feel (and is) quite a bit faster than RTTY, but also has larger character error rate than PSK31 for the same SNR, and if you like sending fast exchanges, PSK125 is yet faster (and even less error free). While the PSK31, PSK63 and PSK125 nomenclature may appear weird, their speeds are really just a factor of two from one another. The symbol rate for PSK31 is 31.25/second, for PSK63 it is 62.5/second and for PSK125 it is 125/second. The 31, 63 and 125 are just rounded from 31.25, 62.5 and 125. (The symbol rate is equivalent to the bit rate in BPSK, and equivalent to the dibit rate for QPSK). I suspect that most programs simply re-decimate the input signal to get a BPSK63 demodulator from a BPSK31 demodulator; that is how cocoaModem implements PSK63 and PSK125. You just need to change the input bandpass filter. Why such a weird number as 31.25 baud? It has to do with ease of implementation when using 8000 samples/second or 16000 samples/second with a sound card. 31.25 baud is simply 1/(32 millisecond). Similar to the reason why Baudot RTTY uses 45.45 baud and not 45.0 baud. The 45.45 comes from 1/(22 millisecond). 73 Chen, W7AY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
The SignaLink schematic shows the same type of isolation transformers already standard in the KIO3. Which are redundant when used with the K3/KIO3. Again, no value over the inexpensive USB soundcard. 73, ... Joe Subich, W4TV microHAM America http://www.microHAM-USA.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM supp...@microham.com -Original Message- From: wb6r...@mac.com [mailto:wb6r...@mac.com] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:11 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Cc: Joe Subich, W4TV Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31 On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: There is no value to the Signalink that can't be provided by much less expensive USB based soundcards ___ The SignaLink schematic shows the same type of isolation transformers already standard in the KIO3. http://www.tigertronics.com/sl_mods.htm 73 - Steve WB6RSE __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I have decided to purchase a less expensive sound card for dedicated use with PSK31. While I could do this through the other sound card or the computer, it is easier to set things up this way. -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:08 PM To: wb6r...@mac.com; 'Elecraft Reflector' Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31 The SignaLink schematic shows the same type of isolation transformers already standard in the KIO3. Which are redundant when used with the K3/KIO3. Again, no value over the inexpensive USB soundcard. 73, ... Joe Subich, W4TV microHAM America http://www.microHAM-USA.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM supp...@microham.com -Original Message- From: wb6r...@mac.com [mailto:wb6r...@mac.com] Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:11 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Cc: Joe Subich, W4TV Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3, sound cards and PSK31 On Apr 5, 2010, at 9:48 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: There is no value to the Signalink that can't be provided by much less expensive USB based soundcards ___ The SignaLink schematic shows the same type of isolation transformers already standard in the KIO3. http://www.tigertronics.com/sl_mods.htm 73 - Steve WB6RSE __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
