Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
the CQWW stats for past 10 years. 7442 in 2013 vs 4109 in 2004 shows a big increase. Barry NF1O YearSSB EntriesCW EntriesTotal Entries20138,4827,44215,92420128,1907,22815,41820117,4746,70914,18320106,5496,16412,71320096,0595,85811,91720085,0175,32010,33720075,0084,8529,86020064,5394,5939,13220054,4464,0908,53620044,3684,0558,42320034,0494,1098,158 Message: 2 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2015 16:38:05 -0500 From: Larry Libsch To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer Message-ID: <54d5343d.4050...@bellsouth.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > For those who are so disabled as to require an external "crutch" to > copy their own call and 5NN, it is a simple matter to reverse channels > in the sound card (at most it requires a "reversing cable") to decode > audio on the sub Receiver. Ah, the old CW snobbery! When is the notion that paddle or key generated CW is superior to software and keyer generated code going to disappear? You decode RTTY with software, don't you? CW is just another digital mode. Software decoding has brought many new CW ops into CW DXing and contesting. Software encoding is more accurate and allows many ops to achieve speeds they could never otherwise achieve. Perhaps you use a keyer for contesting? Many (most?) contesters do. CW contest participation is declining. RTTY contest participation is increasing. Software is every where improving our lives. Time to give up on old ways and ideas and move into the future. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
> Ah, the old CW snobbery! I see others have answered your misinformed opinions - appropriate to someone who has never had the privilege of really learning CW or never had to prove the ability to really use international Morse. However, just one further point ... I've yet to see a machine decoder that can copy CW in noise anywhere near as well as a good CW operator. Although I am no "speed deamon", I gave up on decoders years ago and only turn on the K3's Text display occasionally just to remind myself just how much of a handicap those decoders are for someone who never bothered to learn to copy "by ear". The K3/X3 decoder is one of the better ones I've seen but unless one is fortunate enough to be listening to machine generated CW with at least a 10 dB signal to noise ratio ... forget about it. In that situation, one is better off using one of the newer FEC encoded data modes designed for noisy and fading HF circuits - or even traditional RTTY - as the throughput and error rate will be much better when using a modulation designed for the medium being used. 73, ... Joe, W4TV The opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect on Elecraft or any other company/association. On 2015-02-06 4:38 PM, Larry Libsch wrote: For those who are so disabled as to require an external "crutch" to copy their own call and 5NN, it is a simple matter to reverse channels in the sound card (at most it requires a "reversing cable") to decode audio on the sub Receiver. Ah, the old CW snobbery! When is the notion that paddle or key generated CW is superior to software and keyer generated code going to disappear? You decode RTTY with software, don't you? CW is just another digital mode. Software decoding has brought many new CW ops into CW DXing and contesting. Software encoding is more accurate and allows many ops to achieve speeds they could never otherwise achieve. Perhaps you use a keyer for contesting? Many (most?) contesters do. CW contest participation is declining. RTTY contest participation is increasing. Software is every where improving our lives. Time to give up on old ways and ideas and move into the future. K4KGG, Larry __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
Time to close this portion of the thread. In general, arguments and statements like pro/con comments on CW operation, contesting etc are best taken elsewhere as they are way OT and outside of the list guidelines. 73, Eric Moderator for life.. (Oh No!) elecraft.com On 2/6/2015 1:38 PM, Larry Libsch wrote: For those who are so disabled as to require an external "crutch" to copy their own call and 5NN, it is a simple matter to reverse channels in the sound card (at most it requires a "reversing cable") to decode audio on the sub Receiver. Ah, the old CW snobbery! When is the notion that paddle or key generated CW is superior to software and keyer generated code going to disappear? You decode RTTY with software, don't you? CW is just another digital mode. Software decoding has brought many new CW ops into CW DXing and contesting. Software encoding is more accurate and allows many ops to achieve speeds they could never otherwise achieve. Perhaps you use a keyer for contesting? Many (most?) contesters do. CW contest participation is declining. RTTY contest participation is increasing. Software is every where improving our lives. Time to give up on old ways and ideas and move into the future. K4KGG, Larry __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to elist_c...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
Looking just at CQWW, both CW and SSB participation is increasing. SSB appears to be increasing a bit faster than CW. http://www.cqww.com/stats.htm Though I just added to the length of this thread, I expect we are getting off-topic from Elecraft equipment. I tried to add facts and no opinion, but this is my last post on this topic. wunder K6WRU CM87wj http://observer.wunderwood.org/ On Feb 6, 2015, at 1:48 PM, brian wrote: > Please provide some references for CW contest participation is declining. My > recollection from various magazines is that contest participation #'s are up > for all modes ( no reference provided either). > > 73 de Brian/K3KO > On 2/6/2015 21:38 PM, Larry Libsch wrote: >>> For those who are so disabled as to require an external "crutch" to >>> copy their own call and 5NN, it is a simple matter to reverse channels >>> in the sound card (at most it requires a "reversing cable") to decode >>> audio on the sub Receiver. >> >>Ah, the old CW snobbery! When is the notion that paddle or key >> generated CW is superior to software and keyer generated code going to >> disappear? You decode RTTY with software, don't you? CW is just another >> digital mode. Software decoding has brought many new CW ops into CW DXing >> and contesting. Software encoding is more accurate and allows many ops to >> achieve speeds they could never otherwise achieve. Perhaps you use a keyer >> for contesting? Many (most?) contesters do. CW contest participation is >> declining. RTTY contest participation is increasing. Software is every where >> improving our lives. Time to give up on old ways and ideas and move into the >> future. >> >> >>K4KGG, Larry >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to als...@nc.rr.com >> >> >> - >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2015.0.5646 / Virus Database: 4281/9068 - Release Date: 02/06/15 >> >> > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 4:38 PM, Larry Libsch wrote: > For those who are so disabled as to require an external "crutch" to >> copy their own call and 5NN, it is a simple matter to reverse channels >> in the sound card (at most it requires a "reversing cable") to decode >> audio on the sub Receiver. >> > > Ah, the old CW snobbery! When is the notion that paddle or key > generated CW is superior to software and keyer generated code going to > disappear? I don't think the original comment had anything to do with generating cw. > You decode RTTY with software, don't you? Yes. It was designed to be machine-decoded. > CW is just another digital mode. Yes, one that was designed to be able to be decoded by ear. > Software decoding has brought many new CW ops into CW DXing and contesting. Great! > Software encoding is more accurate At high signal/noise levels it is perhaps as accurate. > and allows many ops to achieve speeds they could never otherwise achieve. Only if they choose to not practice and improve. > Perhaps you use a keyer for contesting? Many (most?) contesters do. You betcha. > CW contest participation is declining. Oooh, I'd love to see your research on this one. > RTTY contest participation is increasing. Great! > Software is every where improving our lives. True. > Time to give up on old ways and ideas and move into the future. > As long as the future is an improvement - 'tisn't always so. 73, geo - n4ua > > > K4KGG, Larry > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n4ua...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
Please provide some references for CW contest participation is declining. My recollection from various magazines is that contest participation #'s are up for all modes ( no reference provided either). 73 de Brian/K3KO On 2/6/2015 21:38 PM, Larry Libsch wrote: For those who are so disabled as to require an external "crutch" to copy their own call and 5NN, it is a simple matter to reverse channels in the sound card (at most it requires a "reversing cable") to decode audio on the sub Receiver. Ah, the old CW snobbery! When is the notion that paddle or key generated CW is superior to software and keyer generated code going to disappear? You decode RTTY with software, don't you? CW is just another digital mode. Software decoding has brought many new CW ops into CW DXing and contesting. Software encoding is more accurate and allows many ops to achieve speeds they could never otherwise achieve. Perhaps you use a keyer for contesting? Many (most?) contesters do. CW contest participation is declining. RTTY contest participation is increasing. Software is every where improving our lives. Time to give up on old ways and ideas and move into the future. K4KGG, Larry __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to als...@nc.rr.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5646 / Virus Database: 4281/9068 - Release Date: 02/06/15 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
For those who are so disabled as to require an external "crutch" to copy their own call and 5NN, it is a simple matter to reverse channels in the sound card (at most it requires a "reversing cable") to decode audio on the sub Receiver. Ah, the old CW snobbery! When is the notion that paddle or key generated CW is superior to software and keyer generated code going to disappear? You decode RTTY with software, don't you? CW is just another digital mode. Software decoding has brought many new CW ops into CW DXing and contesting. Software encoding is more accurate and allows many ops to achieve speeds they could never otherwise achieve. Perhaps you use a keyer for contesting? Many (most?) contesters do. CW contest participation is declining. RTTY contest participation is increasing. Software is every where improving our lives. Time to give up on old ways and ideas and move into the future. K4KGG, Larry __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
This isn't actually true. You can configure OmniRig to treat the K3 VFOs as two separate rigs and open two windows of CW Skimmer to monitor each. I haven't used mine that way for a couple of years so I can't readily explain the details, but I've done it before and it works fine. It shouldn't be difficult for anyone to duplicate it. 73, Dave AB7E On 2/6/2015 8:57 AM, Tom Blahovici wrote: Yes CW skimmer works great. One caveat though with listening on vfo b. Many people use the built in decoding of cw on the k3 or use software such as cwget to assist them. This only works on the main receiver so you lose that functionality. Two things would be great here. One, having decoding built into the k3 subreceiver. That would fix this when you use it like you do. Second, cw skimmer should have an option to qsy on vfo b as well. Tom va2fsq.com On Feb 6, 2015 10:06 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: CW Skimmer is a great tool for cracking the K1N pileups because it decodes the calls of folks calling as well as who just sent 599, and you can click on the relevant decoder dot to move instantly to that frequency. I'm using it with an LP-Pan in what Skimmer calls the Softrock-IF mode. One rub, though, is that the pileups are so wide that it often is not possible to go split, listen on VFO A, and transmit on the second VFO,. because Skimmer tracks VFOA and the action is too far above K1N's frequency to display on my monitor. My K3 has the separate subRX, happily, so I can invert things - listen to K1N on VFO B, while tuning up the band on VFO A looking for the last successful caller. Works amazingly well. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. For spots, please go to your favorite ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tom...@videotron.ca __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to xda...@cis-broadband.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
I use it this way too, and agree it is very helpful. I wish there were a way to either expand or contract the frequency range displayed sort of like Rocky does to be able to get the "big picture" first and then home in in a more detailed search. 73, Ken, NU4I -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Pete Smith N4ZR Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 10:07 AM To: elecraft List Subject: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer CW Skimmer is a great tool for cracking the K1N pileups because it decodes the calls of folks calling as well as who just sent 599, and you can click on the relevant decoder dot to move instantly to that frequency. I'm using it with an LP-Pan in what Skimmer calls the Softrock-IF mode. One rub, though, is that the pileups are so wide that it often is not possible to go split, listen on VFO A, and transmit on the second VFO,. because Skimmer tracks VFOA and the action is too far above K1N's frequency to display on my monitor. My K3 has the separate subRX, happily, so I can invert things - listen to K1N on VFO B, while tuning up the band on VFO A looking for the last successful caller. Works amazingly well. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. For spots, please go to your favorite ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@cox.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
> One caveat though with listening on vfo b. Many people use the built > in decoding of cw on the k3 or use software such as cwget to assist > them. This only works on the main receiver so you lose that > functionality. For those who are so disabled as to require an external "crutch" to copy their own call and 5NN, it is a simple matter to reverse channels in the sound card (at most it requires a "reversing cable") to decode audio on the sub Receiver. Properly designed software will provide the ability to select Left or Right channel audio - that means simply clicking a radio box to choose Main or Sub Rx. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2015-02-06 10:57 AM, Tom Blahovici wrote: Yes CW skimmer works great. One caveat though with listening on vfo b. Many people use the built in decoding of cw on the k3 or use software such as cwget to assist them. This only works on the main receiver so you lose that functionality. Two things would be great here. One, having decoding built into the k3 subreceiver. That would fix this when you use it like you do. Second, cw skimmer should have an option to qsy on vfo b as well. Tom va2fsq.com On Feb 6, 2015 10:06 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: CW Skimmer is a great tool for cracking the K1N pileups because it decodes the calls of folks calling as well as who just sent 599, and you can click on the relevant decoder dot to move instantly to that frequency. I'm using it with an LP-Pan in what Skimmer calls the Softrock-IF mode. One rub, though, is that the pileups are so wide that it often is not possible to go split, listen on VFO A, and transmit on the second VFO,. because Skimmer tracks VFOA and the action is too far above K1N's frequency to display on my monitor. My K3 has the separate subRX, happily, so I can invert things - listen to K1N on VFO B, while tuning up the band on VFO A looking for the last successful caller. Works amazingly well. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. For spots, please go to your favorite ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tom...@videotron.ca __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
Yes CW skimmer works great. One caveat though with listening on vfo b. Many people use the built in decoding of cw on the k3 or use software such as cwget to assist them. This only works on the main receiver so you lose that functionality. Two things would be great here. One, having decoding built into the k3 subreceiver. That would fix this when you use it like you do. Second, cw skimmer should have an option to qsy on vfo b as well. Tom va2fsq.com On Feb 6, 2015 10:06 AM, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote: > > CW Skimmer is a great tool for cracking the K1N pileups because it > decodes the calls of folks calling as well as who just sent 599, and you > can click on the relevant decoder dot to move instantly to that > frequency. I'm using it with an LP-Pan in what Skimmer calls the > Softrock-IF mode. > > One rub, though, is that the pileups are so wide that it often is not > possible to go split, listen on VFO A, and transmit on the second VFO,. > because Skimmer tracks VFOA and the action is too far above K1N's > frequency to display on my monitor. My K3 has the separate subRX, > happily, so I can invert things - listen to K1N on VFO B, while tuning > up the band on VFO A looking for the last successful caller. Works > amazingly well. > > -- > > 73, Pete N4ZR > Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at > http://reversebeacon.net, > blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. > For spots, please go to your favorite > ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to tom...@videotron.ca __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] A K3 Pileup Wrinkle with CW Skimmer
CW Skimmer is a great tool for cracking the K1N pileups because it decodes the calls of folks calling as well as who just sent 599, and you can click on the relevant decoder dot to move instantly to that frequency. I'm using it with an LP-Pan in what Skimmer calls the Softrock-IF mode. One rub, though, is that the pileups are so wide that it often is not possible to go split, listen on VFO A, and transmit on the second VFO,. because Skimmer tracks VFOA and the action is too far above K1N's frequency to display on my monitor. My K3 has the separate subRX, happily, so I can invert things - listen to K1N on VFO B, while tuning up the band on VFO A looking for the last successful caller. Works amazingly well. -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com. For spots, please go to your favorite ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
