[Elecraft] ANT ERR
OK, I seem to have fixed the trouble but I don't understand it. The KX3 screen had shown "ANT ERR" and "PR FLT" but after I did manual tunes for the KXPA100 this no longer happened. But why was this needed since the KXPA100 was already on auto tune? Trying to learn... Julie KT4JR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] ANT ERR
Julie, You may hear from Dick Dievendorff on that condition He is the firmware engineer for the KXPA100 and KXAT100. Dick is quite responsive to customer's problems similar to yours. He may even ask for some trace data to help him in attacking this problem. There are situations when doing a TUNE where the KXPA100 can fault as the SWR varies while the tuner is in a tuning cycle. I know Dick has been working on some timing and "SWR tolerance" algorithms to handle this condition smoothly. However, I don't know the status of the latest changes. I would suggest that you download and install the latest KXPA100 beta firmware to see if that helps. 73, Don W3FPR On 4/15/2014 10:19 AM, jsdroys...@nc.rr.com wrote: OK, I seem to have fixed the trouble but I don't understand it. The KX3 screen had shown "ANT ERR" and "PR FLT" but after I did manual tunes for the KXPA100 this no longer happened. But why was this needed since the KXPA100 was already on auto tune? Trying to learn... __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] "ant err pr flt" error message?? also antenna adjacency problem??
Hello all, we just got back our KX3 after under-warranty repair. The technician included a message that the parts he replaced were usually damaged if 1) Connected to an antenna during a thunderstorm (nope, not here) 2) Power over 100 watts on "an adjacent antenna" QUESTION 1: The KX3 has been using an inverted V wire antenna. At its closest point to a vertical antenna for our K3 they are about 30 feet apart. Is this too close? How far away would be far enough if K3 operator were using 450 watts?I do recall one morning when I used K3 while Larry had KX3 on. I guess I will never do that again, but I would like to know what distance is safe. We have a neighbor a block away who runs high power. QUESTION 2: I just set the KX3 back up with KXPA100. When Larry transmitted at 5 watts all was OK but when he transmitted at 40 watts it said "ANT ERR" at the top of the screen and "PR FLT" at the bottom. I checked the connections. I checked the SWR of the antenna with a SWR meter. What do these messages mean (as they are not described in the manual)? Could these messages have to do with the KXPA100? THANKS to anyone who can opine. 73, Julie KT4JR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] "ant err pr flt" error message?? also antenna adjacencyproblem??
Julie, Question 1 is good question, and I am interested in the answers. I sometimes run the KX3 and the K3 with KPA500 at the same time, on different bands and antennas but the antennas are fairly close together. I don’t do this often, and so far no problems, but it had not occurred to me this would be a problem? Emory WM3M -Original Message- From: Julie Royster Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 9:33 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] "ant err pr flt" error message?? also antenna adjacencyproblem?? Hello all, we just got back our KX3 after under-warranty repair. The technician included a message that the parts he replaced were usually damaged if 1) Connected to an antenna during a thunderstorm (nope, not here) 2) Power over 100 watts on "an adjacent antenna" QUESTION 1: The KX3 has been using an inverted V wire antenna. At its closest point to a vertical antenna for our K3 they are about 30 feet apart. Is this too close? How far away would be far enough if K3 operator were using 450 watts?I do recall one morning when I used K3 while Larry had KX3 on. I guess I will never do that again, but I would like to know what distance is safe. We have a neighbor a block away who runs high power. QUESTION 2: I just set the KX3 back up with KXPA100. When Larry transmitted at 5 watts all was OK but when he transmitted at 40 watts it said "ANT ERR" at the top of the screen and "PR FLT" at the bottom. I checked the connections. I checked the SWR of the antenna with a SWR meter. What do these messages mean (as they are not described in the manual)? Could these messages have to do with the KXPA100? THANKS to anyone who can opine. 73, Julie KT4JR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ejk...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] "ant err pr flt" error message?? also antenna adjacency problem??
Nr 2Be very careful using 500 watts out on a vertical only 30 feet away to the "v" antenna of your KX3 as you will blow out the front end on the radio, usually diodes etc. The best thing to do is to disconnect the antenna of the rig not being used. Voltage can come in on your antennas and sometimes it take only a few volts to cause problems. I believe Elecraft use some protection at the front end, but not a lot. Someone else may know more about this. I have been there and do that so know first hand the trouble you can get into. Toby K4NH On 4/15/2014 9:33 AM, Julie Royster wrote: Hello all, we just got back our KX3 after under-warranty repair. The technician included a message that the parts he replaced were usually damaged if 1) Connected to an antenna during a thunderstorm (nope, not here) 2) Power over 100 watts on "an adjacent antenna" QUESTION 1: The KX3 has been using an inverted V wire antenna. At its closest point to a vertical antenna for our K3 they are about 30 feet apart. Is this too close? How far away would be far enough if K3 operator were using 450 watts?I do recall one morning when I used K3 while Larry had KX3 on. I guess I will never do that again, but I would like to know what distance is safe. We have a neighbor a block away who runs high power. QUESTION 2: I just set the KX3 back up with KXPA100. When Larry transmitted at 5 watts all was OK but when he transmitted at 40 watts it said "ANT ERR" at the top of the screen and "PR FLT" at the bottom. I checked the connections. I checked the SWR of the antenna with a SWR meter. What do these messages mean (as they are not described in the manual)? Could these messages have to do with the KXPA100? THANKS to anyone who can opine. 73, Julie KT4JR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w4c...@centurylink.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] "ant err pr flt" error message?? also antenna adjacency problem??
On 4/15/2014 6:33 AM, Julie Royster wrote: QUESTION 1: The KX3 has been using an inverted V wire antenna. At its closest point to a vertical antenna for our K3 they are about 30 feet apart. Is this too close? Probably. Conductors in the near field of an antenna essentially become part of the antenna, like parasitic elements an in a yagi, and can carry a major fraction of the power delivered to the antenna. 30 feet is 1/4 wave at 40 meters. How far away would be far enough if K3 operator were using 450 watts? It depends on frequency and size of the antennae, and to some extent orientation of the two, however polarization in the near field isn't a huge factor. Several wavelengths is probably a good place to start. QUESTION 2: I just set the KX3 back up with KXPA100. When Larry transmitted at 5 watts all was OK but when he transmitted at 40 watts it said "ANT ERR" at the top of the screen and "PR FLT" at the bottom. I checked the connections. I checked the SWR of the antenna with a SWR meter. What do these messages mean (as they are not described in the manual)? Could these messages have to do with the KXPA100? Don't know, don't have a KX3 or KXPA100. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] "ant err pr flt" error message?? also antenna adjacency problem??
This has been discussed recently so there may be something in the reflector archive. Space loss formula are for far-field situations: Pn = 32.4 + 20Log(F) + 20Log(d), where Pn is in dBm, F in MHz, d in km Antennas as close as you have are in the antenna near-field which has much more complicated math which I am not going to attempt. So the only way to determine what is safe is to measure power coming in on the KX3 antenna when you transmit with the K3 (plus amp) on the other antenna running whatever power you plan to use. I know many hams do not own a lot of sophisticated test equipment so I offer three ways to make the measurement: 1- A simple method would be to connect an ordinary power meter (SWR meter) to the KX3 antenna and connect the other connector to a load (no radio connected). Connect so you read forward power toward the load. I'm going to assume your meter is capable of measuring 10w full scale so a small movement of the indicator would show about 1% (0.1w) indication. That level is 100mw which is about 100 times too strong for the KX3 receiver to survive. In fact maybe the KX3 can handle 10mw but better to be safe by using 1mw as the maximum safe input power limit. 2- One can measure weaker signals if you could obtain use of a HP432 microwave power meter as it measures from -20 to +10 dBm* (but will burn out above this range). Probably you would want the owner of the meter to run the test since they are expensive and delicate. *0.001 to 10mw; attenuators should be used initially like, below. 3- If you have access to some coaxial attenuators you could place them inline with the antenna and your receiver and see what s-meter reading results. I would start with at least 40-dB for safety for your radio (KX3 in your case). if s-meter readings are too low then remove attenuation in 10-dB steps until you see full scale reading of the s-meter. At this point if you still have any attenuation in the line then the power coming into your antenna is too strong for the radio. For reference my KX3 reads S9+50 with a 0 dBm (1mw) signal from my XG3 on 20-MHz (with PRE off). I have a similar situation with 80/40m inverted-V hung on the same tower as my triband yagi with apex about 12 feet below the yagi. I have a 6m yagi at 30-feet below and often monitor 6m while using my K3 on HF bands (that seems to be OK but not running the K3+125w amp to the other 6m yagi 50-feet horizontally distant). QUESTION 1: The KX3 has been using an inverted V wire antenna. At its closest point to a vertical antenna for our K3 they are about 30 feet apart. Is this too close? How far away would be far enough if K3 operator were using 450 watts?I do recall one morning when I used K3 while Larry had KX3 on. I guess I will never do that again, but I would like to know what distance is safe. We have a neighbor a block away who runs high power. THANKS to anyone who can opine. 73, Julie KT4JR 73, Ed - KL7UW http://www.kl7uw.com "Kits made by KL7UW" Dubus Mag business: dubus...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] "ant err pr flt" error message?? also antenna adjacency problem??
If you want to understand the inter-radio interference issues you face, the potential for damage they may cause, techniques to measure their magnitude, and measures you can take to minimize them, I suggest you get a copy of "Managing Interstation Interference" by George Cutsogeorge, W2VJN. It is available on the web from Inrad. There is a very useful section toward the back about using the station radios themselves to measure the interference. - 73, Stan - KR7C -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ant-err-pr-flt-error-message-also-antenna-adjacency-problem-tp7587280p7587344.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
