Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging
If it is true that all modern chargers and laptop supplies are switchmode (?), I can't immediately see why they shouldn't run from a suitable dc supply, since the first thing that happens in a switcher is to rectify the mains. Even my 5 year old stuff is universal input, ie very wide voltage range. So, they could pipe unregulated dc around the cabins. Each outlet would need to be equipped with a ptc protection device to protect the supply and the load in case a conventional device was attached. A plug-in accessory with a bridge rectifier in it would also do the trick. Sorry if this is getting off topic. David G3UNA Using 400Hz power is risky, because the current in the RFI bypass capacitors will much higher than normal. The leakage current through the capacitors to the output and other accessible parts will be high, possibly high enough to be a shock hazard. Running a 50-60Hz product from 400Hz power may also cause early failure of those capacitors. --Tim (KR0U) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging
Not to be recommended Ed unless the plane has a 50/60Hz outlet. The switcher will not like it at all. BTW 400Hz is standard for all aircraft including military. Best regards, Tim Hague Skype m0afj.Tim Sent on my iPad On 29 Oct 2012, at 22:31, EMD edwarddo...@mac.com wrote: Boeing aircraft provides 110volts but the cycles are 400, not the standard 60. My question is can charging a cellphone or camera battery at the higher cycle cause harm to the battery? 73, Ed k3env -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Battery-Charging-tp7564773.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging
Using 400Hz power is risky, because the current in the RFI bypass capacitors will much higher than normal. The leakage current through the capacitors to the output and other accessible parts will be high, possibly high enough to be a shock hazard. Running a 50-60Hz product from 400Hz power may also cause early failure of those capacitors. Follow the charger's marked input frequency rating, which almost always will be 50-60Hz. A small variation for the tolerance of a motor-generator is acceptable, but 667% of the maximum rated frequency is no small variation! --Tim (KR0U) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Battery Charging
Boeing aircraft provides 110volts but the cycles are 400, not the standard 60. My question is can charging a cellphone or camera battery at the higher cycle cause harm to the battery? 73, Ed k3env -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Battery-Charging-tp7564773.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging
Ed, I am not sure why you chose the Elecraft reflector to ask a non-radio related question, but here is my 2 cents worth (and it may be worth no more than that since it is a SWAG) More information needed. Chargers that have linear power sources may have a problem - the transformers are designed for 50 or 60 Hz current, so the voltage out may not be as expected. However, many of the cellphone and camera battery chargers use switching circuitry, so my guess is that all may be well. BUT, don't take my word for it, contact the supplier(s) of your charging devices and ask what power line frequencies are acceptable for the device in question. If their technical staff cannot answer the question, I suspect they have not tested it under those conditions. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/29/2012 6:31 PM, EMD wrote: Boeing aircraft provides 110volts but the cycles are 400, not the standard 60. My question is can charging a cellphone or camera battery at the higher cycle cause harm to the battery? 73, Ed __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging
Years ago a buddy and I had a emergency generator that he built from a pair of 400 Hz aircraft generators. IMX, there is little or no problem running any 50/60 Hz gear off of 400 Hz. You certainly won't hurt anything. The problem is when going the other way -- trying to run something designed for 400 Hz off of a 50 or 60 Hz supply. The issue there was always the power transformers. 50/60 Hz transformers require a lot more iron to operate properly. That's why surplus 400 Hz power transformers always look so small and light compared to their 50/60 Hz counterparts with the same power ratings. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of EMD Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 3:31 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] Battery Charging Boeing aircraft provides 110volts but the cycles are 400, not the standard 60. My question is can charging a cellphone or camera battery at the higher cycle cause harm to the battery? 73, Ed k3env __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging
Thanks guys for your response to my Really OT question. The reason I asked on this forum is because this is where the experts are, not at the Verizon store. Every time I have asked this question at Verizon I get a blank stare which pretty much tells me all I need to know. Sorry for the waste of band with... Ed -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Battery-Charging-tp7564773p7564778.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging - Temperature does matter
Truly smart chargers such as those using the uc3906 IC understand this and adjust accordingly. This does presume that the IC and the battery are located in the same environment, which isn't always exactly the case, but often close enough. Wes N7WS --- On Wed, 6/10/09, John Watkins n0...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: John Watkins n0...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [Elecraft] Battery Charging - Temperature does matter To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 11:44 AM I have been reading the comments about charging and floating various batteries and just had to comment on the 'law of chemistry'. All lead acid batteries whether they are gelcel, AGM or conventional deep cycle, all work because of that dreaded course you tried to avoid in school called chemistry 101. Chemical reactions are effected by temperature. Most of you see this coming already. Yes, the float voltage for lead-acid batteries to achieve proper care does change with the battery temperature. So, if your battery storage area changes temperature from summer to winter you should make a voltage adjustment. Mine varies from 50's in the winter to 80's in the summer. So I use the manufactures chart to adjust my float voltage accordingly. My settings run about 13.8 volts winter to 13.3 in the summer. Your mileage may vary. John - N0EVH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Battery Charging - Temperature does matter
I have been reading the comments about charging and floating various batteries and just had to comment on the 'law of chemistry'. All lead acid batteries whether they are gelcel, AGM or conventional deep cycle, all work because of that dreaded course you tried to avoid in school called chemistry 101. Chemical reactions are effected by temperature. Most of you see this coming already. Yes, the float voltage for lead-acid batteries to achieve proper care does change with the battery temperature. So, if your battery storage area changes temperature from summer to winter you should make a voltage adjustment. Mine varies from 50's in the winter to 80's in the summer. So I use the manufactures chart to adjust my float voltage accordingly. My settings run about 13.8 volts winter to 13.3 in the summer. Your mileage may vary. John - N0EVH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging - Temperature does matter
hmm I forgot to mention on my earlier post, but depending on the types of batteries in addition to the great info below, depending on your temp the batteryyour operating time/ usage on a full charge will vary. Life expectancy will also vary For example some of my batteries at 90F will have less than 1/2 capacity on a full charge same would be true for less then 50f ALso true is that my 10yr battery if mostly kept at above 80f would yield around 5yrs Those big batteries are kinda touchy about a lot of things Proper climate , venting, storage, emergency spill prep , fusing, a emergency kill switch , remember if the Fire Dept. kills your breakers your shack would still be 'on' all things to consider . I try to keep my batteries away from where people will be ...just in case Then again some like to just go 'best effort' On Jun 10, 2009, at 1:44 PM, John Watkins wrote: I have been reading the comments about charging and floating various batteries and just had to comment on the 'law of chemistry'. All lead acid batteries whether they are gelcel, AGM or conventional deep cycle, all work because of that dreaded course you tried to avoid in school called chemistry 101. Chemical reactions are effected by temperature. Most of you see this coming already. Yes, the float voltage for lead-acid batteries to achieve proper care does change with the battery temperature. So, if your battery storage area changes temperature from summer to winter you should make a voltage adjustment. Mine varies from 50's in the winter to 80's in the summer. So I use the manufactures chart to adjust my float voltage accordingly. My settings run about 13.8 volts winter to 13.3 in the summer. Your mileage may vary. John - N0EVH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Myles Landstein myles.landst...@gmail.com please note my new email address dti will soon be eliminated , gmail is my new home update your dir __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Hi Steve, My experience has been better with the IOTA DLS-45. I used it for about a year for my Icom 746pro. Then I bought an Alico DM-340MV linear for my 746pro and used the IOTA for my 2m radio. I did not notice any difference in noise levels on HF - but perhaps it depends what frequencies one uses. I primarily use Mars frequencies near the 75/80m band and also PSK31 at 14.070 and occasionally Mars frequencies near 160m. I just purchased the DLS-90 (90 amps) to power a SGC 500 watt amplifier I have ordered. I read a recommendation for it from a SGC 500 amplifier owner. I am still waiting for the amplifier to arrive, so I have not yet used the DLS-90. I have read some good comments from hams on marine boat web sites - saying they chose it because it is a good value and also does not interfere with their amateur HF radios on board the boat. They charge their boat batteries with it when they are running their generator. Based on the reviews at eham.net I thought the DLS series was electrically quiet and a fine choice. Maybe you should post your experiences at eham.net so others will know? Howard list1 (via Nabble) wrote: Hi All, Just a note on the Iota DLS-30/IQ4 that I have. I originally purchased it because I thought that I could also use it as a power supply as it is advertised. As it turns out I can not use my Elecraft K2 while it is plugged in charging a battery. The RFI is very great on 80 meters up to I think 30 meters. I don't believe that these are made for receivers as I do not see any RFI suppression inside (I could be wrong). I had emailed the distributer to get a schmatic so I could try to add some RFI protection to it inside the case but got nowhere. So I use it to charge my 2 T-105s at night when I'm not on the radio. Steve, W2MY -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Battery-Charging-with-DC-Power-Supply-tp3041295p3048768.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
[Elecraft] Battery charging with PWRGATE and Astron linear or Alnico DM-330V power supplies
If you use a PWRGATE between your supply and and a battery, you MUST raise the voltage to compensate for the drop across the Schottky diode in the PWRGATE. The correct voltages for different batteries are in the manual. Even with my old Astron linear RS-35 it is easy to adjust the output voltage, there is a pot on the board. The manual is on the Astron site. The DM-330V has the voltage adjust knob right on the front panel. I've never found any noise from that power supply, but I will defer to those with a spectrum analyzer. It does have a freq control so you can move any birdies you find. A great little power supply. The PWRGATE is an easy way to use your supply with a back-up battery, and it offers programmable bulk charging rate. My measurements with a DVM after carefully setting the output voltage of the supply suggest it is charging at the correct float rate. Eric WD6DBM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Bill - K6WLM wrote: In the case of Astron supplies it can damage parts of the DC regulator. If there is a Crow Bar circuit that operates with a battery connected to the power supply output it will ruin your day or even burn your house down. --- How can that produce damage or a fire hazard? A crowbar shuts off the power supply so it produces no output if too much current is drawn from it specifically to protect the regulator. That might happen if the power supply is turned on when the battery is discharged enough it demands more than the crowbar current limit, but the crowbar is designed to avoid any dangerous or damaging operation. Typically, the supply remains *off* until the power switch is operated manually, off then on, so it won't keep trying to feed current into a short circuit somewhere. I know that's how the Astrons I've used work. So, as far as I can see, the worse that could happen is you end up with a dead battery if you have a discharge path with the supply off. Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Since Astron has been mentioned in this thread, I'll use that as an example. The SCR that is part of the crowbar is connected directly across the output terminals of the supply. When used normally, the firing of the SCR shorts the output and the supply goes into current limit, if still functional, or hopefully blows the primary fuse if not. With a battery across the output, if the SCR fires, something is going to fuse. It will be either a user-installed external fuse or something else. It would probably not be a good idea to rely on the something else. Wes N7WS --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote: From: Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply To: 'Bill Miner' w...@yahoo.com, Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 8:15 AM Bill - K6WLM wrote: In the case of Astron supplies it can damage parts of the DC regulator. If there is a Crow Bar circuit that operates with a battery connected to the power supply output it will ruin your day or even burn your house down. --- How can that produce damage or a fire hazard? A crowbar shuts off the power supply so it produces no output if too much current is drawn from it specifically to protect the regulator. That might happen if the power supply is turned on when the battery is discharged enough it demands more than the crowbar current limit, but the crowbar is designed to avoid any dangerous or damaging operation. Typically, the supply remains *off* until the power switch is operated manually, off then on, so it won't keep trying to feed current into a short circuit somewhere. I know that's how the Astrons I've used work. So, as far as I can see, the worse that could happen is you end up with a dead battery if you have a discharge path with the supply off. Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Finally, a voice of reason. --- On Sun, 6/7/09, dave hott...@gulftel.com wrote: From: dave hott...@gulftel.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply To: mzil...@verizon.net Cc: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net, Bill Miner w...@yahoo.com Date: Sunday, June 7, 2009, 11:36 PM I'm not quite sure what is meant by the term 'uncontrolled source'. A regulated power supply makes a fine battery charger. Review the charging recommendations at the various battery manufacturer sites such as here: http://www.power-sonic.com/index.php?doc_id=116 or here: http://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm and you will see that constant voltage charging is one of several recommended charging methods. The charge voltage needs to be carefully regulated, which Aston and other power supplies should do, and it is certainly a very good idea to put a fuse in line with each battery to protect against the unknown. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with constant voltage float charging. At the phone co. we kept batteries on float charge for 20 to 25 years and they were instantly ready, indeed constantly on line, and fully charged. Keep the charge voltage set correctly, use proper safety precautions, follow the battery manufacturer's recommendations, and you should be fine. The recommended charge voltage varies by the type of battery. Flooded batteries require a somewhat lower voltage than do SLA or AGM types. For flooded cells the usual recommendation is about 13.5 to 13.6, but some manufacturers are lower than this, and for AGM it is usually a bit higher at 13.6 to 13.8. Check with the battery manufacturer to be sure. What you are trying to do is keep the battery fully charged but yet not burn off the water nor damage the plates. 73 de dave ab9ca/4 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Be careful. There is a voltage that is safe for trickle charging a battery, but it is not the same voltage that is optimum for powering a transceiver. Most if not all transceivers are built for optimum operation at about 13.8 volts which is also the optimum charging voltage for a short term charge of your car battery. They also work well at 12 volts or a little less so that you can use a car battery when you are not running the engine. Most of us keep our power supply adjusted to about 13.8V which is a good voltage for battery charging, but not so good for continuous charge. You will ruin a battery if you keep the voltage that high for long periods. I don't have the battery specs on hand at the moment but something like 12.3 to 12.5V would be a good continuous voltage. Also, you have the challenge of connecting at least two large wires to the output terminals of the charger which is difficult on some chargers. The Astron supply that I have has some nice large bolts for connectors, but others have binding posts that are more difficult. A better solution is to have a separate power supply output for the battery charger and a variable charge circuit to restore the charge after use then reduce the charging voltage for maintenance. Such a supply is made by JetStream, Model JTPS35BCM and probably others. I am in the process of installing one in my shack at the moment. It is reasonably priced and seems a good idea, I will let you know later how well it works. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Wes Stewart n...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Wes Stewart n...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 7:40 AM Finally, a voice of reason. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
I believe I read somwhere that you can do a mod to Astron power supplies to make the float chargable. They sell supplies that say they are for battery back-up, I suspect they are already modified for float charge. Frank - W4NHJ - Original Message - From: Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz To: 'Bill Miner' w...@yahoo.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply Bill - K6WLM wrote: In the case of Astron supplies it can damage parts of the DC regulator. If there is a Crow Bar circuit that operates with a battery connected to the power supply output it will ruin your day or even burn your house down. --- How can that produce damage or a fire hazard? A crowbar shuts off the power supply so it produces no output if too much current is drawn from it specifically to protect the regulator. That might happen if the power supply is turned on when the battery is discharged enough it demands more than the crowbar current limit, but the crowbar is designed to avoid any dangerous or damaging operation. Typically, the supply remains *off* until the power switch is operated manually, off then on, so it won't keep trying to feed current into a short circuit somewhere. I know that's how the Astrons I've used work. So, as far as I can see, the worse that could happen is you end up with a dead battery if you have a discharge path with the supply off. Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Tnx Wes! So the battery voltage across the power supply terminals keeps the SCR turned on, even though the supply voltage is turned off by the crowbar. That would surely lead to a dead SCR without a suitable fuse in the battery circuit. Ron AC7AC Since Astron has been mentioned in this thread, I'll use that as an example. The SCR that is part of the crowbar is connected directly across the output terminals of the supply. When used normally, the firing of the SCR shorts the output and the supply goes into current limit, if still functional, or hopefully blows the primary fuse if not. With a battery across the output, if the SCR fires, something is going to fuse. It will be either a user-installed external fuse or something else. It would probably not be a good idea to rely on the something else. Wes N7WS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
There was an article in QST a good while back about this. Theer were two things that needed to be done, one of which was a fuse between the battery and the power supply so if the crowbar triggered, the PS wouldn't burn up, and the other was a resistor added so the 723 regulator would be protected against the reverse voltage condition when the AC power side is off. I can't spot the article in the ARRL QST index, but may be able to locate information later. And the Astron supplies with the battery backup option will cheerfully fry a battery in a pretty short time. 73, doug From: Frank Ross W4NHJ w4...@comcast.net Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 11:21:03 -0400 I believe I read somwhere that you can do a mod to Astron power supplies to make the float chargable. They sell supplies that say they are for battery back-up, I suspect they are already modified for float charge. Frank - W4NHJ - Original Message - From: Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz To: 'Bill Miner' w...@yahoo.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply Bill - K6WLM wrote: In the case of Astron supplies it can damage parts of the DC regulator. If there is a Crow Bar circuit that operates with a battery connected to the power supply output it will ruin your day or even burn your house down. --- How can that produce damage or a fire hazard? A crowbar shuts off the power supply so it produces no output if too much current is drawn from it specifically to protect the regulator. That might happen if the power supply is turned on when the battery is discharged enough it demands more than the crowbar current limit, but the crowbar is designed to avoid any dangerous or damaging operation. Typically, the supply remains *off* until the power switch is operated manually, off then on, so it won't keep trying to feed current into a short circuit somewhere. I know that's how the Astrons I've used work. So, as far as I can see, the worse that could happen is you end up with a dead battery if you have a discharge path with the supply off. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
In a recent message, Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 fa...@panix.com wrote ... There was an article in QST a good while back about this. Theer were two things that needed to be done, one of which was a fuse between the battery and the power supply so if the crowbar triggered, the PS wouldn't burn up, and the other was a resistor added so the 723 regulator would be protected against the reverse voltage condition when the AC power side is off. The KBT2 option for the K2 is designed for the SLA battery to be charged continuously while the K2 is run from an external 13.8V power supply. A Shottky diode in parallel with a resistor is in series with the battery. http://www.elecraft.com/manual/KBT2_manual_.pdf My K2 has been run for many years under this condition and there is plenty life still in the battery. If the power is removed, the K2 keeps on running. 73 -- David G4DMP Leeds, England, UK -- __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging PowerGate
Why not use a PowerGate device from West Mountain Radio. We do that our club's repeater site and it works darn good. The repeater is run off batteries...while the Astron is used as a charger. The PowerGate takes care of the charging issues. Lee Buller K0WA The New Kansas QSO Party - August 29, Sat 9am-9pm and August 30 Sun 9am-3pm CDT More Info at: http://www.ksqsoparty.org/ In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
A voltage as low as 12.anything will result in a sulfated battery. The lowest float voltage I am aware of is 13.02 (2.17 VPC) on the Rolls/Surrette batteries. All other manufacturers (that I am aware of) recommend something closer to 13.5 or so. Don't listen to me or anyone else on here - check the manufacturer's recommendations!! Yes, if you run your power supply at 13.5 or 13.4 to do a float charge a battery you will likely lose a little maximum power out. But there should be no harm to the rig. Instead of getting 100w out you may get only 90 or so. But this is only about 0.5 dB and undetectable on the RX end. A small price to pay for having continuous backup power, or so it seems to me - YMMV. I think most rigs have an adjustment for the power out - if you can find it! Remember what you are trying to do is keep the battery fully charged without cooking the water out nor damaging the plates. If you watch the water consumption you can tell if the float voltage is too high. If you have to add water more than about once a year the voltage is too high. I try to keep the float voltage about 13.5 or 13.6 and add water only every couple of years to the ones here. A voltage too low is much harder to detect. The only sign is loss of capacity in the battery due to sulfation. The only valid test I know of is to do a load test. So it is better to err a bit on the high side and watch the water consumption then to sulfate the battery. Re: the Jetstream switching supplies. A friend brought one by and we took a look at it with the spectrum analyzer. That one was a horrible noise producer. Lots of spurs well up into the VHF frequencies. 73 de dave ab9ca/4 WILLIS COOKE wrote: Be careful. There is a voltage that is safe for trickle charging a battery, but it is not the same voltage that is optimum for powering a transceiver. Most if not all transceivers are built for optimum operation at about 13.8 volts which is also the optimum charging voltage for a short term charge of your car battery. They also work well at 12 volts or a little less so that you can use a car battery when you are not running the engine. Most of us keep our power supply adjusted to about 13.8V which is a good voltage for battery charging, but not so good for continuous charge. You will ruin a battery if you keep the voltage that high for long periods. I don't have the battery specs on hand at the moment but something like 12.3 to 12.5V would be a good continuous voltage. Also, you have the challenge of connecting at least two large wires to the output terminals of the charger which is difficult on some chargers. The Astron supply that I have has some nice large bolts for connectors, but others have binding posts that are more difficult. A better solution is to have a separate power supply output for the battery charger and a variable charge circuit to restore the charge after use then reduce the charging voltage for maintenance. Such a supply is made by JetStream, Model JTPS35BCM and probably others. I am in the process of installing one in my shack at the moment. It is reasonably priced and seems a good idea, I will let you know later how well it works. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Wes Stewart n...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Wes Stewart n...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 7:40 AM Finally, a voice of reason. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging PowerGate
Lee and the Group: I have used a 73 AH battery with a fuse at the terminal, a PowerGate, and a 35 Amp Astron power supply to run a K2. This has been set up for about 2 years, and has been trouble free. 73, Steve Kercel AA4AK Lee Buller wrote: Why not use a PowerGate device from West Mountain Radio. We do that our club's repeater site and it works darn good. The repeater is run off batteries...while the Astron is used as a charger. The PowerGate takes care of the charging issues. Lee Buller K0WA The New Kansas QSO Party - August 29, Sat 9am-9pm and August 30 Sun 9am-3pm CDT More Info at: http://www.ksqsoparty.org/ In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4103 http://www.iotaengineering.com/iq.htm -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Battery-Charging-with-DC-Power-Supply-tp3041295p3044805.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
If still functional, the power supply regulator isn't turned off, it still tries to supply some current* into the (nearly) short circuit SCR. At the same time the battery supplies current limited only by its internal impedance and the resistance of the interconnect. * If I'm not mistaken (always a good possibility) the Astrons use foldback current limiting to limit the dissipation of the pass transistors. --- On Mon, 6/8/09, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote: From: Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply To: 'Wes Stewart' n...@yahoo.com, 'Bill Miner' w...@yahoo.com, Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 9:23 AM Tnx Wes! So the battery voltage across the power supply terminals keeps the SCR turned on, even though the supply voltage is turned off by the crowbar. That would surely lead to a dead SCR without a suitable fuse in the battery circuit. Ron AC7AC Since Astron has been mentioned in this thread, I'll use that as an example. The SCR that is part of the crowbar is connected directly across the output terminals of the supply. When used normally, the firing of the SCR shorts the output and the supply goes into current limit, if still functional, or hopefully blows the primary fuse if not. With a battery across the output, if the SCR fires, something is going to fuse. It will be either a user-installed external fuse or something else. It would probably not be a good idea to rely on the something else. Wes N7WS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
The power supply that is built to also be a battery charger http://www.iotaengineering.com/dls45.htm The reviews: http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4103 Add an EXTERNAL IQ4 for better battery charging http://www.iotaengineering.com/iq.htm Do not buy the model with INTERNAL IQ4. Howard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Battery-Charging-with-DC-Power-Supply-tp3041295p3044839.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
I have a travel trailer that had a switch-mode charger that was so noisy that it interfered with (analog) TV reception in my house, when the trailer was next to the house on shore power. Needless to say, radio operation was problematic. So I built an analog smart charger using an Astron RS-35M for the case, raw DC and the pass transistors and an AA Engineering board using the uC3906 IC. I used this for a time externally, since it wouldn't fit and wasn't rugged enough to occupy the space in the trailer. I now have this in the shack keeping a 95AH AGM battery charged for emergency use. I replaced the trailer charger with the Iota DLS-45 (40 years ago I worked with some of the founders of this company). It isn't totally electrically quiet, but for a switcher it isn't too bad. Not good enough to go in my shack though. Wes N7WS --- On Mon, 6/8/09, HowardZ howa...@howardz.com wrote: From: HowardZ howa...@howardz.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Monday, June 8, 2009, 12:52 PM http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4103 http://www.iotaengineering.com/iq.htm __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Hi All, Just a note on the Iota DLS-30/IQ4 that I have. I originally purchased it because I thought that I could also use it as a power supply as it is advertised. As it turns out I can not use my Elecraft K2 while it is plugged in charging a battery. The RFI is very great on 80 meters up to I think 30 meters. I don't believe that these are made for receivers as I do not see any RFI suppression inside (I could be wrong). I had emailed the distributer to get a schmatic so I could try to add some RFI protection to it inside the case but got nowhere. So I use it to charge my 2 T-105s at night when I'm not on the radio. Steve, W2MY -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net]on Behalf Of HowardZ http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4103 http://www.iotaengineering.com/iq.htm __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Yeah, Bill brought that up too. On reflection, it makes sense to keep some current flowing through the SCR. That would keep the system from oscillating. If the current through the SCR dropped to zero, it would stop conducting, allowing full voltage to appear at the supply output again which, if the excessive load was still present, would trip the crowbar again in a cycle that would go on indefinitely. In decades I've never had an Astron fail, so I never studied the schematic. I see at least some Ten-Tec supplies work the same way (I have one here). Tnx guys, it's been an instructive exchange. 73, Ron AC7AC From: Wes Stewart [mailto:n...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 11:54 AM To: 'Bill Miner'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net; Ron D'Eau Claire Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply If still functional, the power supply regulator isn't turned off, it still tries to supply some current* into the (nearly) short circuit SCR. At the same time the battery supplies current limited only by its internal impedance and the resistance of the interconnect. * If I'm not mistaken (always a good possibility) the Astrons use foldback current limiting to limit the dissipation of the pass transistors. The SCR that is part of the crowbar is connected directly across the output terminals of the supply. When used normally, the firing of the SCR shorts the output and the supply goes into current limit, if still functional, or hopefully blows the primary fuse if not. With a battery across the output, if the SCR fires, something is going to fuse. It will be either a user-installed external fuse or something else. It would probably not be a good idea to rely on the something else. Wes N7WS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
Sorry, guess that term wasn't real clear. A power supply doesn't control the charge rate, it controls the output voltage. Most bulk storage batteries don't want to charge at high rates, say over 0.5C, although you can probably get away with it for a time. Controlling the charge rate generally improves battery life, although other things like equalization can help with this too (FLA's only!). For the SLA I have here, the recommended maximum continuous CV charge rate is 0.3C. In a way they're fairly picky when it comes to charging rates. Charging in a CV regime is fine as long as the rate is limited to whatever is best for the battery. But most power supplies that can handle a 100W rig like the K3 can may output more than this recommended charge rate, and unless you manually set the current limit to the max rate, they're uncontrolled in this respect. As with all things, YMMV applies. If you have a mega-battery like some 1200AH deep cycle home power type, then the max rate will be different. It's a guess, but I think most hams wouldn't be using that type of Rolls or Surette battery for their stations. I'd sure like to have a set for the main PV system here though. The home power batteries we use for the main PV system are 210 AH 6V golf cart batteries, a series string of 8 of them. The charger/inverter is set up to charge them at a rate only as high as 0.2C in normal circumstances (this is Exide's recommendation for max life). However, if we're off grid for awhile, I set it up to run 0.35C for about 2 hours to bulk them up. In this system , it is normal to pulse charge them. Some people call this a float or trickle charge. Xantrex just calls it normal for some reason. 73, matt W6NIA On Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:36:13 -0500, you wrote: I'm not quite sure what is meant by the term 'uncontrolled source'. A regulated power supply makes a fine battery charger. Review the charging recommendations at the various battery manufacturer sites such as here: http://www.power-sonic.com/index.php?doc_id=116 or here: http://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm and you will see that constant voltage charging is one of several recommended charging methods. The charge voltage needs to be carefully regulated, which Aston and other power supplies should do, and it is certainly a very good idea to put a fuse in line with each battery to protect against the unknown. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with constant voltage float charging. At the phone co. we kept batteries on float charge for 20 to 25 years and they were instantly ready, indeed constantly on line, and fully charged. Keep the charge voltage set correctly, use proper safety precautions, follow the battery manufacturer's recommendations, and you should be fine. The recommended charge voltage varies by the type of battery. Flooded batteries require a somewhat lower voltage than do SLA or AGM types. For flooded cells the usual recommendation is about 13.5 to 13.6, but some manufacturers are lower than this, and for AGM it is usually a bit higher at 13.6 to 13.8. Check with the battery manufacturer to be sure. What you are trying to do is keep the battery fully charged but yet not burn off the water nor damage the plates. 73 de dave ab9ca/4 Matt Zilmer wrote: I just have to chime in on this one. I run my K3/100-based station on solar photovoltaic power, with a 100 AH SLA battery for storage. Quick description of this installation is that I use a charge controller to regulate battery charging. It's a Micro M+ c/c and can put out 4A for a 12VDC system. http://edge.rit.edu/content/P07308/public/Custom%20Charge%20controller The article is from October, 2001 QST. As others have stated, you should not charge *any* battery directly from an uncontrolled source like a power supply. If you want to use the battery as the main power source and recharge it periodically (or whenever the sun shines), you have to regulate the charge rate and voltage level presented to the battery. The Micro M+ does a fine job for smaller installations, and its max charge rate of 4A is adequate for topping a battery in the 100AH class. The Micro M+ uses pulse width to control the charge rate, and this is suggested for FLA and SLA battery types - others work with this method too (AGM, etc.). You can use the Micro M+ or its equivalent for any type of source - power supply, solar PV, bicycle generator, etc. When the weather is cloudy, I use a little Tektronics 3A AC/DC power supply and just run it full bore into the c/c. This works fine too. Details are below for those that are insomniacs Near the _big_ PV panels on the roof are the two Siemens SR50's, which are rated 50W each, and they are in parallel for the 12VDC system. The feed to the shack travels through a weatherproof enclosure that has a 10A fuse and GFP circuit breaker. This might be overkill. Together the two Siemens 50W panels are nameplate rated at
[Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
I am using an Alinco DM-330M power supply. Across the output of the power supply I have a 26 AH battery. If the AC power quits I have many hours to shut down the K3. Charging a battery with a DC supply not meant for that purpose is a very BAD idea. In the case of Astron supplies it can damage parts of the DC regulator. If there is a Crow Bar circuit that operates with a battery connected to the power supply output it will ruin your day or even burn your house down! Bill - K6WLM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
I just have to chime in on this one. I run my K3/100-based station on solar photovoltaic power, with a 100 AH SLA battery for storage. Quick description of this installation is that I use a charge controller to regulate battery charging. It's a Micro M+ c/c and can put out 4A for a 12VDC system. http://edge.rit.edu/content/P07308/public/Custom%20Charge%20controller The article is from October, 2001 QST. As others have stated, you should not charge *any* battery directly from an uncontrolled source like a power supply. If you want to use the battery as the main power source and recharge it periodically (or whenever the sun shines), you have to regulate the charge rate and voltage level presented to the battery. The Micro M+ does a fine job for smaller installations, and its max charge rate of 4A is adequate for topping a battery in the 100AH class. The Micro M+ uses pulse width to control the charge rate, and this is suggested for FLA and SLA battery types - others work with this method too (AGM, etc.). You can use the Micro M+ or its equivalent for any type of source - power supply, solar PV, bicycle generator, etc. When the weather is cloudy, I use a little Tektronics 3A AC/DC power supply and just run it full bore into the c/c. This works fine too. Details are below for those that are insomniacs Near the _big_ PV panels on the roof are the two Siemens SR50's, which are rated 50W each, and they are in parallel for the 12VDC system. The feed to the shack travels through a weatherproof enclosure that has a 10A fuse and GFP circuit breaker. This might be overkill. Together the two Siemens 50W panels are nameplate rated at around 6A. In practice, maximum output is a little over 5A on a really good sun day. The feed down to the shack is 8AWG THHN wire, about 30 feet of it, in flexible NMT. The 8AWG is to minimize the voltage drop to the charge circuitry. Both the battery and charge controller are here in the shack. 73, matt zilmer W6NIA K3 #24, K2 #2810 On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:17:17 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: I am using an Alinco DM-330M power supply. Across the output of the power supply I have a 26 AH battery. If the AC power quits I have many hours to shut down the K3. Charging a battery with a DC supply not meant for that purpose is a very BAD idea. In the case of Astron supplies it can damage parts of the DC regulator. If there is a Crow Bar circuit that operates with a battery connected to the power supply output it will ruin your day or even burn your house down! Bill - K6WLM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Battery Charging with DC Power Supply
I'm not quite sure what is meant by the term 'uncontrolled source'. A regulated power supply makes a fine battery charger. Review the charging recommendations at the various battery manufacturer sites such as here: http://www.power-sonic.com/index.php?doc_id=116 or here: http://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm and you will see that constant voltage charging is one of several recommended charging methods. The charge voltage needs to be carefully regulated, which Aston and other power supplies should do, and it is certainly a very good idea to put a fuse in line with each battery to protect against the unknown. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with constant voltage float charging. At the phone co. we kept batteries on float charge for 20 to 25 years and they were instantly ready, indeed constantly on line, and fully charged. Keep the charge voltage set correctly, use proper safety precautions, follow the battery manufacturer's recommendations, and you should be fine. The recommended charge voltage varies by the type of battery. Flooded batteries require a somewhat lower voltage than do SLA or AGM types. For flooded cells the usual recommendation is about 13.5 to 13.6, but some manufacturers are lower than this, and for AGM it is usually a bit higher at 13.6 to 13.8. Check with the battery manufacturer to be sure. What you are trying to do is keep the battery fully charged but yet not burn off the water nor damage the plates. 73 de dave ab9ca/4 Matt Zilmer wrote: I just have to chime in on this one. I run my K3/100-based station on solar photovoltaic power, with a 100 AH SLA battery for storage. Quick description of this installation is that I use a charge controller to regulate battery charging. It's a Micro M+ c/c and can put out 4A for a 12VDC system. http://edge.rit.edu/content/P07308/public/Custom%20Charge%20controller The article is from October, 2001 QST. As others have stated, you should not charge *any* battery directly from an uncontrolled source like a power supply. If you want to use the battery as the main power source and recharge it periodically (or whenever the sun shines), you have to regulate the charge rate and voltage level presented to the battery. The Micro M+ does a fine job for smaller installations, and its max charge rate of 4A is adequate for topping a battery in the 100AH class. The Micro M+ uses pulse width to control the charge rate, and this is suggested for FLA and SLA battery types - others work with this method too (AGM, etc.). You can use the Micro M+ or its equivalent for any type of source - power supply, solar PV, bicycle generator, etc. When the weather is cloudy, I use a little Tektronics 3A AC/DC power supply and just run it full bore into the c/c. This works fine too. Details are below for those that are insomniacs Near the _big_ PV panels on the roof are the two Siemens SR50's, which are rated 50W each, and they are in parallel for the 12VDC system. The feed to the shack travels through a weatherproof enclosure that has a 10A fuse and GFP circuit breaker. This might be overkill. Together the two Siemens 50W panels are nameplate rated at around 6A. In practice, maximum output is a little over 5A on a really good sun day. The feed down to the shack is 8AWG THHN wire, about 30 feet of it, in flexible NMT. The 8AWG is to minimize the voltage drop to the charge circuitry. Both the battery and charge controller are here in the shack. 73, matt zilmer W6NIA K3 #24, K2 #2810 On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 21:17:17 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: I am using an Alinco DM-330M power supply. Across the output of the power supply I have a 26 AH battery. If the AC power quits I have many hours to shut down the K3. Charging a battery with a DC supply not meant for that purpose is a very BAD idea. In the case of Astron supplies it can damage parts of the DC regulator. If there is a Crow Bar circuit that operates with a battery connected to the power supply output it will ruin your day or even burn your house down! Bill - K6WLM __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
