Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Bill,

If the P3SVGA is set for displaying K3 decoded digital or CW text, another 
external text display program (rumlog, K3 Utility text window etc.) that 
accesses the K3's decoded text over the serial or USB command interface can not 
be running and displaying the decoded text at the same time.  (The P3 with 
P3SVGA gets this data over the same serial path the external program does and 
the K3 flushes out the buffer after each read.)


This is a one application at a time interface.  Running a second app 
simultaneously will cause the loss of text you are experiencing.


73,

Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 2/16/2016 12:46 PM, Bill Frantz wrote:
Thanks to some off list advice, I think I have tracked this problem down. It 
doesn't appear to be RUMlogNG because it also occurs with the K3 utility. 
(Note: I found thi problem before communicating with Tom DL2RUM.) Here's my 
message to support describing the problem:


When running the K3 utility (Mac version, but the problem might also occur 
with Windows and Linux), with the terminal window open, and having the P3/SVGA 
data display turned on, both the P3/SVGA and the terminal window lose 
characters during RTTY decode. The correct characters appear on the K3 display.


Turning P3/SVGA data display off clears up the characters in the terminal 
window, and switching to one of the other windows in the K3 utility clears up 
the problem with the P3/SVGA.


Simular problems occur using RUMlogNG's contest mode for RTTY.

Given the easy workaround, this problem isn't super high priority, but if it 
will be with us for a while, people should learn about the workaround.


73 Bill AE6JV

-
Bill Frantz| The first thing you need when  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345 Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter. | Los Gatos, CA 95032

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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Bill Frantz]

Thanks to some off list advice, I think I have tracked this 
problem down. It doesn't appear to be RUMlogNG because it also 
occurs with the K3 utility. (Note: I found thi problem before 
communicating with Tom DL2RUM.) Here's my message to support 
describing the problem:


When running the K3 utility (Mac version, but the problem might 
also occur with Windows and Linux), with the terminal window 
open, and having the P3/SVGA data display turned on, both the 
P3/SVGA and the terminal window lose characters during RTTY 
decode. The correct characters appear on the K3 display.


Turning P3/SVGA data display off clears up the characters in the 
terminal window, and switching to one of the other windows in 
the K3 utility clears up the problem with the P3/SVGA.


Simular problems occur using RUMlogNG's contest mode for RTTY.

Given the easy workaround, this problem isn't super high 
priority, but if it will be with us for a while, people should 
learn about the workaround.


73 Bill AE6JV

-
Bill Frantz| The first thing you need when  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | using a perimeter defense is a | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | perimeter. | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Bill Frantz]

More information: RUMlogNG seems to be part of the problem. 
Today I was able to relax and watch decode of a RTTY (KL7RST 
running contacts). I noticed that the K3 was doing a good job of 
decoding the RTTY at all times (but wow, the screen is small). 
The P3/SVGA was losing characters making the decode unreadable, 
as was RUMlogNG. If I quit RUMlogNG, the P3/SVGA stopped 
dropping characters and seemed to be showing the same decode as 
the K3.


Perhaps someone who know how the characters get from the K3 to 
the P3 can shed some light on what might be going on.


I'll ask Tom, DL2RUM in his support forum.

73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/14/16 at 4:51 PM, fra...@pwpconsult.com (Bill Frantz) wrote:

I just finished casual operation in the contest. I spent 
considerable time trying to find the best way to do RTTY with RUMlogNG.


RUMlogNG can use the RTTY support built in to the K3 via the 
RS-232 link. It works well for transmit, although given the 
number of times I had to repeat my call, I wonder if there was 
a slight frequency difference between the audio coming in to 
the computer thru the sound card from the radio and the 
transmit frequency. It seemed like there was enough of a 
difference that the running OP had to fine tune my signal to 
decode it.


I did center the CWT tuning indicator on the K3, and when I 
turned on Dual PB, the computer was getting the signal on the 
right frequency.


My big problem was on receive. I never got the radio to cleanly 
decode. It missed almost all the call signs, regardless of 
strength of the signal. I tried using fldigi, which did work, 
and cocoaModem which seemed to decode better than fldigi. I 
ended up using cocoaModem and logging manually. (Next time I'll 
probably steal the VGA screen from the P3 and use it as a 
second screen on the computer so I can see all of both programs windows.)


The question is, what am I doing wrong with getting decoding to work on the K3?


--
Bill Frantz| There are now so many exceptions to the
408-356-8506   | Fourth Amendment that it operates only by
www.pwpconsult.com | accident.  -  William Hugh Murray

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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Bill Frantz]

Good idea. I wish I had heard about on Friday HIHI. (cocoaModem 
will also separately decode the left and right channels.)


73 Bill AE6JV

On 2/15/16 at 8:40 AM, rprat...@mac.com (Rick Prather) wrote:


BTW, CCM also has the benefit of being able to use both VFO's and tuning
for the next call while I wait for the "NR?'s and AGN?'s"  to be finished
on the main receiver.  That way is I have a secondary station tuned in on
the SUB I can do a quick A/B switch to work the next one.



Bill Frantz|"Insofar as the propositions of mathematics 
refer to
408-356-8506   | reality, they are not certain; and insofar 
they are
www.pwpconsult.com | certain, they do not refer to reality.” 
-- Einstein


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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Rick Prather]

I forgot to mention that I also will set the tuning bars in cocoaModem as
close to 1275/1445 (my preferred tones)  as I can and often use the XY
tuning indicator in CCM.

BTW, CCM also has the benefit of being able to use both VFO's and tuning
for the next call while I wait for the "NR?'s and AGN?'s"  to be finished
on the main receiver.  That way is I have a secondary station tuned in on
the SUB I can do a quick A/B switch to work the next one.

Rick
K6LE

On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 5:57 AM, David Kuechenmeister 
wrote:

>  I ran my K3 with the K3IOB upgrade card installed. I also have a P3 and
> set it to a 10 KHz span. Before, when I used the line out as an input to
> Fldigi, it seemed like there was a little more tolerance in how I tuned in
> on the space signal. Now, I notice that the K3 decodes text when I get
> reasonably close to the space signal, but Fldigi still needs a little more
> finagling to get it decoding at all.
> I may be back to using the Xonar sound card and cables unless I can
> establish a more consistent tuning procedure on the RTTY signals.
> vy 73,Dave N4KD
>
>
>
>  On Monday, February 15, 2016 12:22 AM, Rick Prather 
> wrote:
>
>
>  I used RUMlogNG for WPX and it worked very well.
>
> My set up though is a bit different than your's I think.
>
> I use the K3 set to FSK D  and cocoaModem as a back up.  I tune the signals
> using my P3 set to about 15 Khz span and tune to the Right (space) signal.
> The only repeats I needed to give didn't surprise me since I am running
> only 100W to a wire.
>
> I found that cocoaModem was slightly better at decoding but most of my
> decodeing and therefore grabbing call signs, etc. was from the RUMlogNG
> display with cocoaModem used mostly as an occasional backup.
>
> Interestingly enough, I found a few situations, especially on weak and/or
> fluttery signals, where the K3 did a much better job of decoding than
> cocoaModem.
>
> I also spent some time running FLDIGI on the side but found it was not
> nearly as good as cocoaModem or the K3 in decoding.
>
> Rick
> K6LE
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[David Kuechenmeister]

 I ran my K3 with the K3IOB upgrade card installed. I also have a P3 and set it 
to a 10 KHz span. Before, when I used the line out as an input to Fldigi, it 
seemed like there was a little more tolerance in how I tuned in on the space 
signal. Now, I notice that the K3 decodes text when I get reasonably close to 
the space signal, but Fldigi still needs a little more finagling to get it 
decoding at all. 
I may be back to using the Xonar sound card and cables unless I can establish a 
more consistent tuning procedure on the RTTY signals.
vy 73,Dave N4KD

   

 On Monday, February 15, 2016 12:22 AM, Rick Prather  wrote:
 

 I used RUMlogNG for WPX and it worked very well.

My set up though is a bit different than your's I think.

I use the K3 set to FSK D  and cocoaModem as a back up.  I tune the signals
using my P3 set to about 15 Khz span and tune to the Right (space) signal.
The only repeats I needed to give didn't surprise me since I am running
only 100W to a wire.

I found that cocoaModem was slightly better at decoding but most of my
decodeing and therefore grabbing call signs, etc. was from the RUMlogNG
display with cocoaModem used mostly as an occasional backup.

Interestingly enough, I found a few situations, especially on weak and/or
fluttery signals, where the K3 did a much better job of decoding than
cocoaModem.

I also spent some time running FLDIGI on the side but found it was not
nearly as good as cocoaModem or the K3 in decoding.

Rick
K6LE


  
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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Rick Prather]

I used RUMlogNG for WPX and it worked very well.

My set up though is a bit different than your's I think.

I use the K3 set to FSK D  and cocoaModem as a back up.  I tune the signals
using my P3 set to about 15 Khz span and tune to the Right (space) signal.
The only repeats I needed to give didn't surprise me since I am running
only 100W to a wire.

I found that cocoaModem was slightly better at decoding but most of my
decodeing and therefore grabbing call signs, etc. was from the RUMlogNG
display with cocoaModem used mostly as an occasional backup.

Interestingly enough, I found a few situations, especially on weak and/or
fluttery signals, where the K3 did a much better job of decoding than
cocoaModem.

I also spent some time running FLDIGI on the side but found it was not
nearly as good as cocoaModem or the K3 in decoding.

Rick
K6LE





On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 6:34 PM, Stephen Shearer 
wrote:

> I played for a few hours Friday night.
>
> I used my KX3 with the PX3 and a USB keyboard for S&P calling and reply
> including the serial number using function keys.  I used logging to keep
> track of the few contacts I made on a separate computer.
>
> I operated on 80m and used FSK D on the KX3 to display on the PX3.  I
> found having the bandwidth as narrow as possible plus just a tad wider.  I
> think something about 250 Hz wide worked well and I had very little problem
> copying call signs or serial numbers.  One time I did have to wait for his
> next contact to conform the number.  I DID have a problem with some
> stations needing a repeat of my serial number as I was running 5 watts
> (using an 80m horizontal loop - 15' above ground).
>
> With the PX3 keyboard messaging and \c for serial number I sent the \c
> twice but if I needed to re-send the \c string, the number would increment
> and it is NOT easy to decrement the number.  I just sent the number "by
> hand".  It would be nice yo have \d to decrement the number before sending
> again.
>
> With the PX3, tuning was easy and accurate.  With CWT alone, tuning needs
> to be "somewhat" even on either side of CWT and then watch how it decoded.
>
> Without the PX3, I would have used fldigi, a USB sound card, and the KX3
> using DATA A (because I can use all the modes fldigi has)...
>
> 73, steve WB3LGC
>
> On 14-Feb-16 8:30 PM, John E Bastin wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2016, at 19:51, Bill Frantz  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> My big problem was on receive. I never got the radio to cleanly decode.
>>> It missed almost all the call signs, regardless of strength of the signal.
>>> I tried using fldigi, which did work, and cocoaModem which seemed to decode
>>> better than fldigi. I ended up using cocoaModem and logging manually. (Next
>>> time I'll probably steal the VGA screen from the P3 and use it as a second
>>> screen on the computer so I can see all of both programs windows.)
>>>
>>
>> I also am using a Mac in the hamshack (I confess, I use a Windows VM and
>> N1MM plus for contesting). I’ve used this method of RTTY operation on the
>> K3 for casual operation, and my biggest difficulty was tuning to the exact
>> correct frequency on the K3 to get solid decoding of the received signal.
>> I’m used to working with MMTTY on the computer, with the simulated crossed
>> ellipses on the screen to tune in the signal; without that aid, even though
>> I know what the signal is supposed to sound like, I have to play with the
>> tuning to get it exactly correct for decoding (I can usually get it to work
>> OK to make the contact, though).
>>
>> With that in mind, maybe your problem with the other  station copying you
>> is the same problem you’re having with decoding: even with the CWT
>> indicator, you’re not getting exactly on the correct frequency,
>>
>> Are you using FINE tuning on the K3? That seems to be almost a necessity
>> to make the fine adjustments needed to tune the RTTY signal correctly for
>> receiving and decoding.
>>
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> John K8AJS
>> jbas...@sssnet.com 
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Stephen Shearer]

I played for a few hours Friday night.

I used my KX3 with the PX3 and a USB keyboard for S&P calling and reply 
including the serial number using function keys.  I used logging to keep 
track of the few contacts I made on a separate computer.


I operated on 80m and used FSK D on the KX3 to display on the PX3.  I 
found having the bandwidth as narrow as possible plus just a tad wider. 
 I think something about 250 Hz wide worked well and I had very little 
problem copying call signs or serial numbers.  One time I did have to 
wait for his next contact to conform the number.  I DID have a problem 
with some stations needing a repeat of my serial number as I was running 
5 watts (using an 80m horizontal loop - 15' above ground).


With the PX3 keyboard messaging and \c for serial number I sent the \c 
twice but if I needed to re-send the \c string, the number would 
increment and it is NOT easy to decrement the number.  I just sent the 
number "by hand".  It would be nice yo have \d to decrement the number 
before sending again.


With the PX3, tuning was easy and accurate.  With CWT alone, tuning 
needs to be "somewhat" even on either side of CWT and then watch how it 
decoded.


Without the PX3, I would have used fldigi, a USB sound card, and the KX3 
using DATA A (because I can use all the modes fldigi has)...


73, steve WB3LGC

On 14-Feb-16 8:30 PM, John E Bastin wrote:


On Feb 14, 2016, at 19:51, Bill Frantz  wrote:


My big problem was on receive. I never got the radio to cleanly decode. It 
missed almost all the call signs, regardless of strength of the signal. I tried 
using fldigi, which did work, and cocoaModem which seemed to decode better than 
fldigi. I ended up using cocoaModem and logging manually. (Next time I'll 
probably steal the VGA screen from the P3 and use it as a second screen on the 
computer so I can see all of both programs windows.)


I also am using a Mac in the hamshack (I confess, I use a Windows VM and N1MM 
plus for contesting). I’ve used this method of RTTY operation on the K3 for 
casual operation, and my biggest difficulty was tuning to the exact correct 
frequency on the K3 to get solid decoding of the received signal. I’m used to 
working with MMTTY on the computer, with the simulated crossed ellipses on the 
screen to tune in the signal; without that aid, even though I know what the 
signal is supposed to sound like, I have to play with the tuning to get it 
exactly correct for decoding (I can usually get it to work OK to make the 
contact, though).

With that in mind, maybe your problem with the other  station copying you is 
the same problem you’re having with decoding: even with the CWT indicator, 
you’re not getting exactly on the correct frequency,

Are you using FINE tuning on the K3? That seems to be almost a necessity to 
make the fine adjustments needed to tune the RTTY signal correctly for 
receiving and decoding.

Hope this helps.

John K8AJS
jbas...@sssnet.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[John E Bastin]

On Feb 14, 2016, at 19:51, Bill Frantz  wrote:
> 
> My big problem was on receive. I never got the radio to cleanly decode. It 
> missed almost all the call signs, regardless of strength of the signal. I 
> tried using fldigi, which did work, and cocoaModem which seemed to decode 
> better than fldigi. I ended up using cocoaModem and logging manually. (Next 
> time I'll probably steal the VGA screen from the P3 and use it as a second 
> screen on the computer so I can see all of both programs windows.)

I also am using a Mac in the hamshack (I confess, I use a Windows VM and N1MM 
plus for contesting). I’ve used this method of RTTY operation on the K3 for 
casual operation, and my biggest difficulty was tuning to the exact correct 
frequency on the K3 to get solid decoding of the received signal. I’m used to 
working with MMTTY on the computer, with the simulated crossed ellipses on the 
screen to tune in the signal; without that aid, even though I know what the 
signal is supposed to sound like, I have to play with the tuning to get it 
exactly correct for decoding (I can usually get it to work OK to make the 
contact, though).

With that in mind, maybe your problem with the other  station copying you is 
the same problem you’re having with decoding: even with the CWT indicator, 
you’re not getting exactly on the correct frequency,

Are you using FINE tuning on the K3? That seems to be almost a necessity to 
make the fine adjustments needed to tune the RTTY signal correctly for 
receiving and decoding.

Hope this helps.

John K8AJS
jbas...@sssnet.com 


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Re: [Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Dave Cole]

Hi,
Did you have Data Submode "AFSK A" turned on?
-- 
73's, and thanks,
Dave

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On Sun, 2016-02-14 at 16:51 -0800, Bill Frantz wrote:
> I just finished casual operation in the contest. I spent 
> considerable time trying to find the best way to do RTTY with
> RUMlogNG.
> 
> RUMlogNG can use the RTTY support built in to the K3 via the 
> RS-232 link. It works well for transmit, although given the 
> number of times I had to repeat my call, I wonder if there was a 
> slight frequency difference between the audio coming in to the 
> computer thru the sound card from the radio and the transmit 
> frequency. It seemed like there was enough of a difference that 
> the running OP had to fine tune my signal to decode it.
> 
> I did center the CWT tuning indicator on the K3, and when I 
> turned on Dual PB, the computer was getting the signal on the 
> right frequency.
> 
> My big problem was on receive. I never got the radio to cleanly 
> decode. It missed almost all the call signs, regardless of 
> strength of the signal. I tried using fldigi, which did work, 
> and cocoaModem which seemed to decode better than fldigi. I 
> ended up using cocoaModem and logging manually. (Next time I'll 
> probably steal the VGA screen from the P3 and use it as a second 
> screen on the computer so I can see all of both programs windows.)
> 
> The question is, what am I doing wrong with getting decoding to 
> work on the K3?
> 
> 73 Bill AE6JV
> 
> ---
> 
> Bill Frantz| Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
> (408)356-8506  | over lies and hate.  | 16345 
> Englewood Ave
> www.pwpconsult.com |   - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, 
> CA 95032
> 
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[Elecraft] CQ WPX RTTY Contest

[Bill Frantz]

I just finished casual operation in the contest. I spent 
considerable time trying to find the best way to do RTTY with RUMlogNG.


RUMlogNG can use the RTTY support built in to the K3 via the 
RS-232 link. It works well for transmit, although given the 
number of times I had to repeat my call, I wonder if there was a 
slight frequency difference between the audio coming in to the 
computer thru the sound card from the radio and the transmit 
frequency. It seemed like there was enough of a difference that 
the running OP had to fine tune my signal to decode it.


I did center the CWT tuning indicator on the K3, and when I 
turned on Dual PB, the computer was getting the signal on the 
right frequency.


My big problem was on receive. I never got the radio to cleanly 
decode. It missed almost all the call signs, regardless of 
strength of the signal. I tried using fldigi, which did work, 
and cocoaModem which seemed to decode better than fldigi. I 
ended up using cocoaModem and logging manually. (Next time I'll 
probably steal the VGA screen from the P3 and use it as a second 
screen on the computer so I can see all of both programs windows.)


The question is, what am I doing wrong with getting decoding to 
work on the K3?


73 Bill AE6JV

---
Bill Frantz| Truth and love must prevail  | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506  | over lies and hate.  | 16345 
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com |   - Vaclav Havel | Los Gatos, 
CA 95032


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