Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
/There is no need for the KFL1 firmware to be open source, it is available from Elecraft as a spare part. Elecraft will continue to support existing KFL1-4 boards with parts (except for replacement trimmer capacitors) for a good long time into the future. / Hi Don, when you allow an existing project as open source, the meaning lies in the fact, to promote the creation of something *new*. The retained the original firmware restricts this. The support of the old 4Band boards is independent of such a decision. But this is all a decision which is at Elecraft. 73, Wolfgang -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K-1-4-band-Availability-Status-tp7599810p7599922.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
The part we used was Sprague-Goodman GCL4 (now obsolete). These are 1-40 pF with a very low temperature coefficient. Trimmers still available have TCs that are 2 to 4 times worse, and have a higher minimum C. These are fine for applications where small drifts in C with temperature don't significantly alter the passband of the filter (e.g., in the KFL1-2, K2, and K3). But the KFL1-4 requires very high-Q filters in order to remove mixing products from both the pre-mixer and transmit mixer stages. The low minimum-C is needed for the higher-band filters. We found that if we used trimmers with a worse TC on the KFL1-4, then power output would temporarily drop (in some cases by 50-70%) when the K1 was operated at an ambient temperature quite different from that at time of alignment. That would be unacceptable for a rig often used outdoors. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 7, 2015, at 8:06 AM, Wes (N7WS) w...@triconet.org wrote: On 3/6/2015 9:33 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: The part number for the bare KFL1-4 board is E100129 as listed in the KFL1-4 manual. Is there a commercial P/N specified for the capacitors? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
I am certain there used to be a commercial part number, but the ones that were used (the blue trimmer caps) are no longer available from any source unless someone has a stockpile of them that might serve for replacement purposes (I don't know of any sources). Discontinued components are becoming a more frequent problem, particularly with thru-hole components. The manufacturer see orders shrinking and determines that it is not economical to continue the manufacturing line. That forces the higher assembly products in turn to be either re-designed or also discontinued. While that is happening more frequently with thru-hole parts, it is also happening with lesser used SMD components, particularly specialty ICs. That is just the way of the world. The KFL1-4 is a 14 year old product. Those that currently exist will likely work fine for another 20 or more years if not abused, but new ones are no longer available. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/7/2015 11:06 AM, Wes (N7WS) wrote: On 3/6/2015 9:33 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: The part number for the bare KFL1-4 board is E100129 as listed in the KFL1-4 manual. Is there a commercial P/N specified for the capacitors? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
This would only be enough for about 19 boards. And the price is likely to be very high, knowing the surplus market. 73, Wayne N6KR On Mar 7, 2015, at 8:57 AM, Bob wb4...@gmail.com wrote: GCL4 http://www.1sourcecomponents.com/availability/SPRAGUE--GCL4.htm311 SPRAGUE[image: Request For Quote] http://www.1sourcecomponents.com/search/results.htm?base=GCL4%0D%0AGo.x=22Go.y=13Go=Gosubmit=Start+Search#rfq_form_top 311 available at 1 source electronics. Of course that would only make a few boards. And no telling if they are really available and at what price. But that might be enough to build a few spares for inventory. http://www.1sourcecomponents.com/ On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: I am certain there used to be a commercial part number, but the ones that were used (the blue trimmer caps) are no longer available from any source unless someone has a stockpile of them that might serve for replacement purposes (I don't know of any sources). Discontinued components are becoming a more frequent problem, particularly with thru-hole components. The manufacturer see orders shrinking and determines that it is not economical to continue the manufacturing line. That forces the higher assembly products in turn to be either re-designed or also discontinued. While that is happening more frequently with thru-hole parts, it is also happening with lesser used SMD components, particularly specialty ICs. That is just the way of the world. The KFL1-4 is a 14 year old product. Those that currently exist will likely work fine for another 20 or more years if not abused, but new ones are no longer available. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/7/2015 11:06 AM, Wes (N7WS) wrote: On 3/6/2015 9:33 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: The part number for the bare KFL1-4 board is E100129 as listed in the KFL1-4 manual. Is there a commercial P/N specified for the capacitors? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wb4...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
GCL4 http://www.1sourcecomponents.com/availability/SPRAGUE--GCL4.htm311 SPRAGUE[image: Request For Quote] http://www.1sourcecomponents.com/search/results.htm?base=GCL4%0D%0AGo.x=22Go.y=13Go=Gosubmit=Start+Search#rfq_form_top 311 available at 1 source electronics. Of course that would only make a few boards. And no telling if they are really available and at what price. But that might be enough to build a few spares for inventory. http://www.1sourcecomponents.com/ On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: I am certain there used to be a commercial part number, but the ones that were used (the blue trimmer caps) are no longer available from any source unless someone has a stockpile of them that might serve for replacement purposes (I don't know of any sources). Discontinued components are becoming a more frequent problem, particularly with thru-hole components. The manufacturer see orders shrinking and determines that it is not economical to continue the manufacturing line. That forces the higher assembly products in turn to be either re-designed or also discontinued. While that is happening more frequently with thru-hole parts, it is also happening with lesser used SMD components, particularly specialty ICs. That is just the way of the world. The KFL1-4 is a 14 year old product. Those that currently exist will likely work fine for another 20 or more years if not abused, but new ones are no longer available. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/7/2015 11:06 AM, Wes (N7WS) wrote: On 3/6/2015 9:33 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: The part number for the bare KFL1-4 board is E100129 as listed in the KFL1-4 manual. Is there a commercial P/N specified for the capacitors? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wb4...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
On 3/6/2015 9:33 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: The part number for the bare KFL1-4 board is E100129 as listed in the KFL1-4 manual. Is there a commercial P/N specified for the capacitors? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Hi, I think this is quite a good idea ! The talking arround it with the no longer available trimmers could be stopped by redesigning the filter with more fixed NP0 caps and less variable trimmers. A trimmer with 1 to 40pF is an evil an unneeded coponent. Give the firmware to open source and others may break their heads ! 73, Herbert CT2IJD / DD0PC Am 07.03.2015 20:50, schrieb Wolfgang Klein: Hi, when the 4-band module should not be developed further, it would be a good idea to publish the firmware so that it might create a open source project??? 73, Wolfgang DL2KI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Herbert and all, There is no need for the KFL1 firmware to be open source, it is available from Elecraft as a spare part. Elecraft will continue to support existing KFL1-4 boards with parts (except for replacement trimmer capacitors) for a good long time into the future. In other words, even though the board has been discontinued, that does not mean support for that board has been retracted. If I need to repair a KFL1-4 board that has a failed trimmer capacitor, I will then replace it with another temperature stable capacitor with lesser range an use whatever NP0 or C0G capacitors to restore it to working condition. I have replaced a few of those blue bodied capacitors in the past, but the number has been very few considering the number of repairs I have done over the years. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/7/2015 5:49 PM, Humberto wrote: Hi, I think this is quite a good idea ! The talking arround it with the no longer available trimmers could be stopped by redesigning the filter with more fixed NP0 caps and less variable trimmers. A trimmer with 1 to 40pF is an evil an unneeded coponent. Give the firmware to open source and others may break their heads ! 73, Herbert CT2IJD / DD0PC Am 07.03.2015 20:50, schrieb Wolfgang Klein: Hi, when the 4-band module should not be developed further, it would be a good idea to publish the firmware so that it might create a open source project??? 73, Wolfgang DL2KI __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Hi, when the 4-band module should not be developed further, it would be a good idea to publish the firmware so that it might create a open source project??? 73, Wolfgang DL2KI -- 73 de DL2KI http://www.dl2ki.de DOK K08 DL-QRP-AG #3247 G-QRPC #13541 Jabber-ID: dl...@jabber.ccc.de GnuPG: Öffentlicher Schlüssel erzeugt am: 2012-10-27 Key-ID: 0xFB3F3B7A Algorithmus: RSA(4096 Bit) Fingerprint: 4530 9FCB 9D48 9B50 967C F81C 0EDB 78D9 FB3F 3B7A Anleitung - E-Mails verschlüsseln - Free Software Foundation https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/de/ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
One can never have too many! Tonight I parked my K2 and worked SKCC using MFJ 9040 and KX1. That leaves K1, KX3, LNR FX-2, Survivor, and OHR100A lacking attention. Don't tell them, but they will all will be for sale at Hamvention as I look for different toys with which to play. Stop by flea market 3106 with your trades. Let's deal! Ken - ke4rg -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Phil Wheeler Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2015 8:47 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status? Wes, While I think the K1 (4-band especially!) is a fine rig, it's luster for me was dulled a bit when I was able to make a KX3 my primary QRP rig. Pluses include: * Way more than four bands * All modes on the bands in does cover, even digital as an option * Superior receiver * Panadapter available * And others too numerous to mention here all in a package that is not really all that much bigger than the K1. Two definite pluses of the K1: I enjoyed building it more (a melt-solder kit) and it has a bigger speaker. snip __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Wes, While I think the K1 (4-band especially!) is a fine rig, it's luster for me was dulled a bit when I was able to make a KX3 my primary QRP rig. Pluses include: * Way more than four bands * All modes on the bands in does cover, even digital as an option * Superior receiver * Panadapter available * And others too numerous to mention here all in a package that is not really all that much bigger than the K1. Two definite pluses of the K1: I enjoyed building it more (a melt-solder kit) and it has a bigger speaker. After considerable thought, I recently sold my fully-configured and updated K1 #18. I sort of miss it, but how many rigs can a body use? 73, Phil W7OX On 3/7/15 5:24 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote: Come on, we're hams, we're supposed to jump at these opportunities. On 3/6/2015 11:34 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Hi all, The KFL1-4 module needs trimmers that are both wide range and extremely temperature stable, due to the high loaded Q of the band-pass filters. To emulate this stable capacitance with trimmers now available, you'd have to use a hand-selected C0G cap in parallel with a much smaller trimmer for each of the original 16 trimmers. This would be extremely tedious for builders. So, while it is possible, it is not practical. Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
I have WAY more than two, Phil -- even after selling the K1 and last Fall giving my NC-40A to an old ham with no rig in Florida :-) 73, Phil W7OX On 3/7/15 6:24 PM, Phil Hystad wrote: but how many rigs can a body use? More than Two. Two is justified -- one as primary rig, second as backup. But, having a third means you are serious. Therefore, more than Two. Note: no upper bound. My Norcal 40A is no match for my KX3 but I still put it on the air a couple of times a year. When I operate portable QRP somewhere, I take my KX3, my KX1, and my Norcal 40A and many times I have enough time to use them all for at least one QSO. Just now waiting for the warmer Northwest weather although today was not bad at 64 degrees. 73, phil, K7PEH On Mar 7, 2015, at 5:47 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote: Wes, While I think the K1 (4-band especially!) is a fine rig, it's luster for me was dulled a bit when I was able to make a KX3 my primary QRP rig. Pluses include: * Way more than four bands * All modes on the bands in does cover, even digital as an option * Superior receiver * Panadapter available * And others too numerous to mention here all in a package that is not really all that much bigger than the K1. Two definite pluses of the K1: I enjoyed building it more (a melt-solder kit) and it has a bigger speaker. After considerable thought, I recently sold my fully-configured and updated K1 #18. I sort of miss it, but how many rigs can a body use? 73, Phil W7OX On 3/7/15 5:24 PM, Wes (N7WS) wrote: Come on, we're hams, we're supposed to jump at these opportunities. On 3/6/2015 11:34 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Hi all, The KFL1-4 module needs trimmers that are both wide range and extremely temperature stable, due to the high loaded Q of the band-pass filters. To emulate this stable capacitance with trimmers now available, you'd have to use a hand-selected C0G cap in parallel with a much smaller trimmer for each of the original 16 trimmers. This would be extremely tedious for builders. So, while it is possible, it is not practical. Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to phys...@mac.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
This mainly for Jay, W6CJ. Don answered your question about the availability of the K-1 4 band module. That is a shame as it really made the K-1 more versatile. I am really enjoying mine. You also asked about the stability of the K-1's VFO. I had not heard of any issues before buying mine and haven't had any problems. There is a small drift when first turned on, but stabilizes within a short time (minutes). If you had a signal within the bandpass, it will not drift outside the bandpass during warmup. After the rig has been on a few minutes you will not notice any drift. Of course this is only my experience. Mike, AC4UR Using K-1 # 583 (with all mods, updates and a 4 band module) http://sunbyrdpress.blogspot.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
There is probably some middle ground here to satisfy most people in this situation. It's completely understandable and correct that Elecraft would not want to spend the effort to re-engineer this board. However some of us on channel don't see the task as rocket science and in most cases would be glad to provide that expertise as a side effort just to make that equipment useful. If Elecraft had even something as simple as unpopulated boards to purchase for use as prototypes, it would make that task quite simple. Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC Staunton, Illinois Owner - Operator Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com email: b...@wjschmidt.com -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 8:05 PM To: Ross Primrose; Phil Wheeler; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status? Ross, That vital part is the availability of the 1 to 40pF trimmer capacitors - which also had a very tight temperature compensation characteristic. The KFL1-4 used 16 of them. Due to their wide capacity range, the same capacitors could be used in all 16 positions and provide successful tuning. Those capacitors have been discontinued by the manufacturer. The problem is that there are no substitutes that could be used for all 16 positions, and it would take a great deal of engineering effort to determine the suitable substitutes for each position on the 4 band board. In other words, would a 3 to 15pf trimmer be suitable in the C1 thru C4 locations and would a 12 to 30pF trimmer be suitable in the C5 thru C8 locations and so forth. Furthermore, if the 17 meter band were chosen instead of the 15 meter band, which low range trimmer capacitors would be used for each band. I am speaking of examples for the engineering effort that would be required to select the best capacitor for each position and each band choice. It is not a trivial exercise. I certainly would not want to do experiments to select the appropriate replacement trimmers necessary to resurrect the 4 band board, and I am certain the engineering staff does not have the time to do that work. The documentation would get more complicated as well - for example, if you have chosen the 15 meter band, use the red trimmer capacitors at location Cx but if you have chosen 17 meters, use the yellow trimmers at those locations Hopefully you get the point of the complexity created by those wide range trimmer being no longer available. The values I have proposed above are only numbers off the top of my head for examples, they have no value in the real world. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/6/2015 6:46 PM, Ross Primrose wrote: Looking at the parts list, I can't imagine which part is no longer available 73, Ross N4RP On 3/6/2015 4:37 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: Confirm. Something related to a vital part(s?) no longer being available. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to b...@wjschmidt.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Ross, That vital part is the availability of the 1 to 40pF trimmer capacitors - which also had a very tight temperature compensation characteristic. The KFL1-4 used 16 of them. Due to their wide capacity range, the same capacitors could be used in all 16 positions and provide successful tuning. Those capacitors have been discontinued by the manufacturer. The problem is that there are no substitutes that could be used for all 16 positions, and it would take a great deal of engineering effort to determine the suitable substitutes for each position on the 4 band board. In other words, would a 3 to 15pf trimmer be suitable in the C1 thru C4 locations and would a 12 to 30pF trimmer be suitable in the C5 thru C8 locations and so forth. Furthermore, if the 17 meter band were chosen instead of the 15 meter band, which low range trimmer capacitors would be used for each band. I am speaking of examples for the engineering effort that would be required to select the best capacitor for each position and each band choice. It is not a trivial exercise. I certainly would not want to do experiments to select the appropriate replacement trimmers necessary to resurrect the 4 band board, and I am certain the engineering staff does not have the time to do that work. The documentation would get more complicated as well - for example, if you have chosen the 15 meter band, use the red trimmer capacitors at location Cx but if you have chosen 17 meters, use the yellow trimmers at those locations Hopefully you get the point of the complexity created by those wide range trimmer being no longer available. The values I have proposed above are only numbers off the top of my head for examples, they have no value in the real world. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/6/2015 6:46 PM, Ross Primrose wrote: Looking at the parts list, I can't imagine which part is no longer available 73, Ross N4RP On 3/6/2015 4:37 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: Confirm. Something related to a vital part(s?) no longer being available. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Looking at the parts list, I can't imagine which part is no longer available 73, Ross N4RP On 3/6/2015 4:37 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: Confirm. Something related to a vital part(s?) no longer being available. 73, Phil W7OX On 3/6/15 1:25 PM, J wrote: I was interested in building a K-1 4-band, but learned the 4-band boards are unavailable. Can someone confirm or deny? Also, there was a VFO drift issue in the first K-1's I'd read about. I was curious if this issue was resolved or still exists. Thanks, Jay W6CJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@n4rp.com -- FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.” __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
The very tight temperature coefficient trim caps that are needed for the 4 band board became unavailable. 73, Eric elecraft.com On 3/6/2015 3:46 PM, Ross Primrose wrote: Looking at the parts list, I can't imagine which part is no longer available 73, Ross N4RP On 3/6/2015 4:37 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: Confirm. Something related to a vital part(s?) no longer being available. 73, Phil W7OX On 3/6/15 1:25 PM, J wrote: I was interested in building a K-1 4-band, but learned the 4-band boards are unavailable. Can someone confirm or deny? Also, there was a VFO drift issue in the first K-1's I'd read about. I was curious if this issue was resolved or still exists. Thanks, Jay W6CJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@n4rp.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
[Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
I was interested in building a K-1 4-band, but learned the 4-band boards are unavailable. Can someone confirm or deny? Also, there was a VFO drift issue in the first K-1's I'd read about. I was curious if this issue was resolved or still exists. Thanks, Jay W6CJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Jay, Yes, the KFL1-4 is no longer available. Take a look at the K1 specifications to be certain the frequency stability is sufficient for your needs. Yes, there is some drift as is common in any analog VFO (and the K1 uses an analog VFO). The frequency determining capacitors are either polystyrene or NP0 disc ceramics which have good (but not perfect) temperature stability. If the VFO inductor is carefully wound with the turns tight to the core and it is properly secured, the K1 VFO frequency stability will be better than specifications. I have dealt with 2 or 3 K1s with drift outside the spec limits, and they were 'cured' by properly winding the inductor and/or replacing the poly capacitors. Most of the K1s that I repair have frequency stability well within the specs. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/6/2015 4:25 PM, J wrote: I was interested in building a K-1 4-band, but learned the 4-band boards are unavailable. Can someone confirm or deny? Also, there was a VFO drift issue in the first K-1's I'd read about. I was curious if this issue was resolved or still exists. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Confirm. Something related to a vital part(s?) no longer being available. 73, Phil W7OX On 3/6/15 1:25 PM, J wrote: I was interested in building a K-1 4-band, but learned the 4-band boards are unavailable. Can someone confirm or deny? Also, there was a VFO drift issue in the first K-1's I'd read about. I was curious if this issue was resolved or still exists. Thanks, Jay W6CJ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
Hi all, The KFL1-4 module needs trimmers that are both wide range and extremely temperature stable, due to the high loaded Q of the band-pass filters. To emulate this stable capacitance with trimmers now available, you'd have to use a hand-selected C0G cap in parallel with a much smaller trimmer for each of the original 16 trimmers. This would be extremely tedious for builders. So, while it is possible, it is not practical. Wayne N6KR http://www.elecraft.com On Mar 6, 2015, at 8:33 PM, Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com wrote: The part number for the bare KFL1-4 board is E100129 as listed in the KFL1-4 manual. I do not know whether Elecraft has any boards in stock, but one could ask. Good luck with your project(s). You would also need the firmware E610010 as well as the other parts such as relays, connectors, crystals etc. If you downloaded the KFL1-4 manual before it was removed, you are 'in luck'. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/6/2015 10:03 PM, Dr. William J. Schmidt, II wrote: There is probably some middle ground here to satisfy most people in this situation. It's completely understandable and correct that Elecraft would not want to spend the effort to re-engineer this board. However some of us on channel don't see the task as rocket science and in most cases would be glad to provide that expertise as a side effort just to make that equipment useful. If Elecraft had even something as simple as unpopulated boards to purchase for use as prototypes, it would make that task quite simple. Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC Staunton, Illinois Owner - Operator Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com email: b...@wjschmidt.com -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 8:05 PM To: Ross Primrose; Phil Wheeler; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status? Ross, That vital part is the availability of the 1 to 40pF trimmer capacitors - which also had a very tight temperature compensation characteristic. The KFL1-4 used 16 of them. Due to their wide capacity range, the same capacitors could be used in all 16 positions and provide successful tuning. Those capacitors have been discontinued by the manufacturer. The problem is that there are no substitutes that could be used for all 16 positions, and it would take a great deal of engineering effort to determine the suitable substitutes for each position on the 4 band board. In other words, would a 3 to 15pf trimmer be suitable in the C1 thru C4 locations and would a 12 to 30pF trimmer be suitable in the C5 thru C8 locations and so forth. Furthermore, if the 17 meter band were chosen instead of the 15 meter band, which low range trimmer capacitors would be used for each band. I am speaking of examples for the engineering effort that would be required to select the best capacitor for each position and each band choice. It is not a trivial exercise. I certainly would not want to do experiments to select the appropriate replacement trimmers necessary to resurrect the 4 band board, and I am certain the engineering staff does not have the time to do that work. The documentation would get more complicated as well - for example, if you have chosen the 15 meter band, use the red trimmer capacitors at location Cx but if you have chosen 17 meters, use the yellow trimmers at those locations Hopefully you get the point of the complexity created by those wide range trimmer being no longer available. The values I have proposed above are only numbers off the top of my head for examples, they have no value in the real world. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/6/2015 6:46 PM, Ross Primrose wrote: Looking at the parts list, I can't imagine which part is no longer available 73, Ross N4RP On 3/6/2015 4:37 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: Confirm. Something related to a vital part(s?) no longer being available. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to b...@wjschmidt.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing
Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status?
The part number for the bare KFL1-4 board is E100129 as listed in the KFL1-4 manual. I do not know whether Elecraft has any boards in stock, but one could ask. Good luck with your project(s). You would also need the firmware E610010 as well as the other parts such as relays, connectors, crystals etc. If you downloaded the KFL1-4 manual before it was removed, you are 'in luck'. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/6/2015 10:03 PM, Dr. William J. Schmidt, II wrote: There is probably some middle ground here to satisfy most people in this situation. It's completely understandable and correct that Elecraft would not want to spend the effort to re-engineer this board. However some of us on channel don't see the task as rocket science and in most cases would be glad to provide that expertise as a side effort just to make that equipment useful. If Elecraft had even something as simple as unpopulated boards to purchase for use as prototypes, it would make that task quite simple. Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch - K9ZC Staunton, Illinois Owner - Operator Villa Grand Piton - J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: www.VillaGrandPiton.com email: b...@wjschmidt.com -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Friday, March 06, 2015 8:05 PM To: Ross Primrose; Phil Wheeler; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K-1 4-band Availability/Status? Ross, That vital part is the availability of the 1 to 40pF trimmer capacitors - which also had a very tight temperature compensation characteristic. The KFL1-4 used 16 of them. Due to their wide capacity range, the same capacitors could be used in all 16 positions and provide successful tuning. Those capacitors have been discontinued by the manufacturer. The problem is that there are no substitutes that could be used for all 16 positions, and it would take a great deal of engineering effort to determine the suitable substitutes for each position on the 4 band board. In other words, would a 3 to 15pf trimmer be suitable in the C1 thru C4 locations and would a 12 to 30pF trimmer be suitable in the C5 thru C8 locations and so forth. Furthermore, if the 17 meter band were chosen instead of the 15 meter band, which low range trimmer capacitors would be used for each band. I am speaking of examples for the engineering effort that would be required to select the best capacitor for each position and each band choice. It is not a trivial exercise. I certainly would not want to do experiments to select the appropriate replacement trimmers necessary to resurrect the 4 band board, and I am certain the engineering staff does not have the time to do that work. The documentation would get more complicated as well - for example, if you have chosen the 15 meter band, use the red trimmer capacitors at location Cx but if you have chosen 17 meters, use the yellow trimmers at those locations Hopefully you get the point of the complexity created by those wide range trimmer being no longer available. The values I have proposed above are only numbers off the top of my head for examples, they have no value in the real world. 73, Don W3FPR On 3/6/2015 6:46 PM, Ross Primrose wrote: Looking at the parts list, I can't imagine which part is no longer available 73, Ross N4RP On 3/6/2015 4:37 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote: Confirm. Something related to a vital part(s?) no longer being available. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to b...@wjschmidt.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to w3...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
