Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Robert Allbright]

That's the best way Kev
73
Rob
G3RCE

On Jun 12, 2017 1:19 PM, "Kevin - K4VD"  wrote:

​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and having
as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.

73,
Kev
​
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Hi Jim,

No need to apologize. All of the thread's posts are good info - We just try to 
keep the volume of responses to OT threads down to 5-10 to keep list email 
volume under control for our other readers.


73,
Eric
/elecraft.com/

On 6/13/2017 9:34 AM, Jim Sr Sturges wrote:
My apologies for opening what became an overwhelmingly nice, polite, friendly, 
and educational thread for me and perhaps a few others. This is a place where 
exposing ignorance is rewarded with gold-plated knowledge and bonhomie. I'm 
not really sorry but good form dictates that response. My replies here are SK.


73
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 12:28 PM Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft 
> wrote:


In the interest of releiving email overload for our readers, lets close
this OT
thread at this time.   Its well past the single day posting limit.

73,
Eric
List Moderator
/elecraft.com/ 

On 6/12/2017 9:14 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
> I was one of the last Radio Officers to sail an all CW ship.  It was the
SS Tampa Bay, call sign KNJA.  We worked our way up and down the South
American coasts from ports in the US gulf coast.
>
> I mainly worked WLO on 16 and 22 MHz. We typically hummed along around
30 WPM due to the requirement for perfect copy in both directions. I once
made a mistake -- spelled a guys name wrong by one letter (Johnson vs.
Johnsen or some such thing) and I really caught hell from The Old Man.
That didn't happen again!
>
> One day I was just doing a poor job of sending and had to keep
correcting myself. After all the traffic was sent I apologized to the
shore station op. He said, "Are you kidding? You have the best fist I've
copied all day." Nice guy, made me feel much better about my sloppy
sending. I have little doubt he was a Ham.
>
> You can see a pic of a typical shipboard radio room of that era at:
> http://www.w7kf.com/Articles/Rigs/ITTMackay3020A.html
>
> Fond memories...
>
> 73,
> Doug, W7KF
>
>
>> On Jun 12, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire > wrote:
>>
>> I've seen commercial ship/shore traffic running very slow due to a
shipboard
>> operator who was not proficient at CW. The shore station had to run 
equally
>> slow, no matter how painful.
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to eric.swa...@elecraft.com


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--
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.


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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Jim Sr Sturges]

My apologies for opening what became an overwhelmingly nice, polite,
friendly, and educational thread for me and perhaps a few others. This is a
place where exposing ignorance is rewarded with gold-plated knowledge and
bonhomie. I'm not really sorry but good form dictates that response. My
replies here are SK.

73
On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 12:28 PM Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft <
e...@elecraft.com> wrote:

> In the interest of releiving email overload for our readers, lets close
> this OT
> thread at this time.   Its well past the single day posting limit.
>
> 73,
> Eric
> List Moderator
> /elecraft.com/
>
> On 6/12/2017 9:14 PM, Doug Smith wrote:
> > I was one of the last Radio Officers to sail an all CW ship.  It was the
> SS Tampa Bay, call sign KNJA.  We worked our way up and down the South
> American coasts from ports in the US gulf coast.
> >
> > I mainly worked WLO on 16 and 22 MHz. We typically hummed along around
> 30 WPM due to the requirement for perfect copy in both directions. I once
> made a mistake -- spelled a guys name wrong by one letter (Johnson vs.
> Johnsen or some such thing) and I really caught hell from The Old Man. That
> didn't happen again!
> >
> > One day I was just doing a poor job of sending and had to keep
> correcting myself. After all the traffic was sent I apologized to the shore
> station op. He said, "Are you kidding? You have the best fist I've copied
> all day." Nice guy, made me feel much better about my sloppy sending. I
> have little doubt he was a Ham.
> >
> > You can see a pic of a typical shipboard radio room of that era at:
> >http://www.w7kf.com/Articles/Rigs/ITTMackay3020A.html
> >
> > Fond memories...
> >
> > 73,
> > Doug, W7KF
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 12, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire  wrote:
> >>
> >> I've seen commercial ship/shore traffic running very slow due to a
> shipboard
> >> operator who was not proficient at CW. The shore station had to run
> equally
> >> slow, no matter how painful.
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to eric.swa...@elecraft.com
>
> __
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to jwstur...@gmail.com
>
-- 
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

In the interest of releiving email overload for our readers, lets close this OT 
thread at this time.   Its well past the single day posting limit.


73,
Eric
List Moderator
/elecraft.com/

On 6/12/2017 9:14 PM, Doug Smith wrote:

I was one of the last Radio Officers to sail an all CW ship.  It was the SS 
Tampa Bay, call sign KNJA.  We worked our way up and down the South American 
coasts from ports in the US gulf coast.

I mainly worked WLO on 16 and 22 MHz. We typically hummed along around 30 WPM 
due to the requirement for perfect copy in both directions. I once made a 
mistake -- spelled a guys name wrong by one letter (Johnson vs. Johnsen or some 
such thing) and I really caught hell from The Old Man. That didn't happen again!

One day I was just doing a poor job of sending and had to keep correcting myself. After 
all the traffic was sent I apologized to the shore station op. He said, "Are you 
kidding? You have the best fist I've copied all day." Nice guy, made me feel much 
better about my sloppy sending. I have little doubt he was a Ham.

You can see a pic of a typical shipboard radio room of that era at:
   http://www.w7kf.com/Articles/Rigs/ITTMackay3020A.html

Fond memories...

73,
Doug, W7KF



On Jun 12, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire  wrote:

I've seen commercial ship/shore traffic running very slow due to a shipboard
operator who was not proficient at CW. The shore station had to run equally
slow, no matter how painful.

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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Doug Smith]

I was one of the last Radio Officers to sail an all CW ship.  It was the SS 
Tampa Bay, call sign KNJA.  We worked our way up and down the South American 
coasts from ports in the US gulf coast. 

I mainly worked WLO on 16 and 22 MHz. We typically hummed along around 30 WPM 
due to the requirement for perfect copy in both directions. I once made a 
mistake -- spelled a guys name wrong by one letter (Johnson vs. Johnsen or some 
such thing) and I really caught hell from The Old Man. That didn't happen again!

One day I was just doing a poor job of sending and had to keep correcting 
myself. After all the traffic was sent I apologized to the shore station op. He 
said, "Are you kidding? You have the best fist I've copied all day." Nice guy, 
made me feel much better about my sloppy sending. I have little doubt he was a 
Ham.  

You can see a pic of a typical shipboard radio room of that era at:
  http://www.w7kf.com/Articles/Rigs/ITTMackay3020A.html

Fond memories...

73,
Doug, W7KF


> On Jun 12, 2017, at 5:33 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire  wrote:
> 
> I've seen commercial ship/shore traffic running very slow due to a shipboard
> operator who was not proficient at CW. The shore station had to run equally
> slow, no matter how painful.

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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Richard Fjeld]

The guys I looked up to were the radio ops on ship.  They sat at a typewriter 
and had to type perfectly as they copied perfectly.

Rich, n0ce


From: Ron D'Eau Claire<mailto:r...@cobi.biz>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 6:34 PM
To: 'KENT TRIMBLE'<mailto:k9...@socket.net>; 
f...@fmeco.com<mailto:f...@fmeco.com>; 
elecraft@mailman.qth.net<mailto:elecraft@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

In military and commercial brass pounding in the USA, we were limited to
something between 13 and 20 wpm, usually closer to 13, because long studies
demonstrated that slower is faster because of fewer mistakes copying every
letter correctly on a keyboard or paper. And hearing whole "words" was a
path to disaster if one was copying five letter code groups.

If I was caught trying to run an Army CW net above about 15 wpm I'd likely
end up on KP for a month. (KP = kitchen police: cleaning kitchens, peeling
potatoes, etc.) The object was to ensure that everyone on the circuit could
copy perfectly the first time.

In the "day" some commercial point-to-point circuits required the operators
use the "company key" provided - a bug with the weights welded on for about
15 wpm just to keep the speeds down for faster message handling.

I've seen commercial ship/shore traffic running very slow due to a shipboard
operator who was not proficient at CW. The shore station had to run equally
slow, no matter how painful.

But Amateur Radio is a whole different world with different skills being
most useful, skills such as head copy at 20 or 30 wpm. I enjoy "reading the
mail" on CW while puttering around the shack, just as if listening to a
voice transmission. And many Hams enjoy constantly pushing the envelope on
speed just for the fun of it. Ham radio is, after all, a Hobby. If the other
station copies the name as Don, not Ron, and the QTH as Forest Lawn (a
cemetery in Los Angeles) and not Forest Grove (a town in Oregon), it's
easily corrected on the next transmission.

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KENT TRIMBLE
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 11:31 AM
To: f...@fmeco.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

One caveat, Fred . . .

Traffic handlers MUST copy on paper or on a word processor.

In my opinion, one is not a skilled telegrapher until one can copy in head
and on paper with equal accuracy.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 6/12/2017 11:59 AM, Fred Moore wrote:
> the moral... put down the pencil and paper.
>
> Fred Moore
>

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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Clay Autery]

Looking forward to starting the academy in the fall.  :)

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 6/12/2017 6:33 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote
> But Amateur Radio is a whole different world with different skills being
> most useful, skills such as head copy at 20 or 30 wpm. I enjoy "reading the
> mail" on CW while puttering around the shack, just as if listening to a
> voice transmission. And many Hams enjoy constantly pushing the envelope on
> speed just for the fun of it. Ham radio is, after all, a Hobby. If the other
> station copies the name as Don, not Ron, and the QTH as Forest Lawn (a
> cemetery in Los Angeles) and not Forest Grove (a town in Oregon), it's
> easily corrected on the next transmission.  
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC

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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

In military and commercial brass pounding in the USA, we were limited to
something between 13 and 20 wpm, usually closer to 13, because long studies
demonstrated that slower is faster because of fewer mistakes copying every
letter correctly on a keyboard or paper. And hearing whole "words" was a
path to disaster if one was copying five letter code groups. 

If I was caught trying to run an Army CW net above about 15 wpm I'd likely
end up on KP for a month. (KP = kitchen police: cleaning kitchens, peeling
potatoes, etc.) The object was to ensure that everyone on the circuit could
copy perfectly the first time. 

In the "day" some commercial point-to-point circuits required the operators
use the "company key" provided - a bug with the weights welded on for about
15 wpm just to keep the speeds down for faster message handling.  

I've seen commercial ship/shore traffic running very slow due to a shipboard
operator who was not proficient at CW. The shore station had to run equally
slow, no matter how painful. 

But Amateur Radio is a whole different world with different skills being
most useful, skills such as head copy at 20 or 30 wpm. I enjoy "reading the
mail" on CW while puttering around the shack, just as if listening to a
voice transmission. And many Hams enjoy constantly pushing the envelope on
speed just for the fun of it. Ham radio is, after all, a Hobby. If the other
station copies the name as Don, not Ron, and the QTH as Forest Lawn (a
cemetery in Los Angeles) and not Forest Grove (a town in Oregon), it's
easily corrected on the next transmission.  

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KENT TRIMBLE
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 11:31 AM
To: f...@fmeco.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

One caveat, Fred . . .

Traffic handlers MUST copy on paper or on a word processor.

In my opinion, one is not a skilled telegrapher until one can copy in head
and on paper with equal accuracy.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 6/12/2017 11:59 AM, Fred Moore wrote:
> the moral... put down the pencil and paper.
>
> Fred Moore
>

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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[KENT TRIMBLE]

One caveat, Fred . . .

Traffic handlers MUST copy on paper or on a word processor.

In my opinion, one is not a skilled telegrapher until one can copy in 
head and on paper with equal accuracy.


73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 6/12/2017 11:59 AM, Fred Moore wrote:

the moral... put down the pencil and paper.

Fred Moore



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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[KENT TRIMBLE]

Doug . . .

This is a super-great story!

You need to send it to QST for its "letters to the editor" page.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 6/12/2017 12:03 PM, Doug Smith wrote:

I agree about getting on the air.  And, about the value of the old Novice class 
in providing a “safe harbor”.

When I got my novice ticket I went out and bought crystals for various 
frequencies on 80, 40 and 15 meters.  Frequencies were random and I had three 
on 80 meters — 3713, 3723 and 3741.

It turned out that there was a small bunch of us who, unbeknownst to each 
other, had crystals on 3723.  We mostly were brand new licensees and soon 
became fast friends.  There was a guy in Sacramento, a gal near Portland, 
another gal near Spokane and myself in Montana.  We hung out together on 3723 
each night, sometimes for hours.  Over the weeks and months, we all built up 
T/R switches and went QSK.  We all graduated to bugs and then electronic 
keyers, mostly homebrew and TO keyers.

We had been holding forth on 3723 for 8 or 9 months and one night a guy with a 
general call-sign and who we didn’t know broke in on us and told us we were 
being rude by operating in the Novice band and that we should clear out of 
there if we wanted to run at 40 WPM.  I QRS’d for the guy and replied that we 
would love to move but we were rock-bound Novices and couldn’t move and signed 
my WN7DMA call sign.

It was a real eye opener because we had never really thought about speed.  We 
knew we were going faster that we used to, needed keyers  and whatnot but 
hadn’t really thought much about it.  We were just a bunch of Novices, having 
fun on the radio.

So, the point of this rambling?

Try to find some friends on the air who like to chew the rag and get on the air 
with them as often as possible.  A group of similar speed operators who won’t 
need to ask someone to QRS or feel like they’re imposing on someone to operate 
slowly.  The value of that is huge.  Friendship, brotherhood, and shared goals 
make it easy to overcome the angst and build speed and competence.  And, it’s 
fun!

It is unfortunate the old Novice bands are gone but I do hear lots of guys 
higher in the CW segments, lumbering along at 10 WPM.  Sometimes I get on and 
work one of them because I like to see them doing what they’re doing.  It takes 
some courage to jump on 20 meters and call CQ at 10 WPM..

One more thing.  Once you can copy 15 WPM (or so) loose the pencil or keyboard. 
 Start copying in your head.  CW then becomes a conversation and your speed 
will start to inch upward.  One day you’ll be clipping along at 30 WPM and not 
even thinking about it.  You’ll just be chatting with a friend..

73 and see you on the air!

Doug, W7KF
http://www.w7kf.com 




On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, KENT TRIMBLE > wrote:


I thoroughly agree with Kev about "getting on the air."

I teach two and sometimes three Morse Code classes every Saturday
morning.  The students all KNOW the code.  They can accurately copy 10 WPM
and above, and can send quite decently.  But no matter how much I
encourage, cajole, or "coddle," they resist my pleas to get "on the air"
for all kinds of reasons, but primarily two -- either no one comes back to
them or all they can find are speed demons who won't slow down.

The worse thing the FCC ever did for amateur radio (in my opinion) was the
elimination of the non-renewable Novice license with the concomitant doing
away of the Novice sub-bands.  Those were safe-harbors for neophytes to
find each other, work each other, and improve each other without feeling
intimidated.  The non-renewable aspect served to motivate those who were
desirous of deeper involvement in communications, and to give a graceful
exit to those who weren't.

All the computer programs and well-structured academies in-the-world are
simply no substitute for good old-fashioned one-on-one Morse Code work
between two eager and nervous operators.  That's how you learn best and how
you learn quickest. And an even greater dividend is that you learn about
propagation, procedures, tuning skills, how receivers work, signal paths,
solar effects, antenna fundamentals, and a host of other things that can't
be learned on a laptop, no matter how well the application is executed or
the content designed.

73,

Kent  K9ZTV





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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Doug Smith]

I agree about getting on the air.  And, about the value of the old Novice class 
in providing a “safe harbor”.

When I got my novice ticket I went out and bought crystals for various 
frequencies on 80, 40 and 15 meters.  Frequencies were random and I had three 
on 80 meters — 3713, 3723 and 3741.  

It turned out that there was a small bunch of us who, unbeknownst to each 
other, had crystals on 3723.  We mostly were brand new licensees and soon 
became fast friends.  There was a guy in Sacramento, a gal near Portland, 
another gal near Spokane and myself in Montana.  We hung out together on 3723 
each night, sometimes for hours.  Over the weeks and months, we all built up 
T/R switches and went QSK.  We all graduated to bugs and then electronic 
keyers, mostly homebrew and TO keyers.

We had been holding forth on 3723 for 8 or 9 months and one night a guy with a 
general call-sign and who we didn’t know broke in on us and told us we were 
being rude by operating in the Novice band and that we should clear out of 
there if we wanted to run at 40 WPM.  I QRS’d for the guy and replied that we 
would love to move but we were rock-bound Novices and couldn’t move and signed 
my WN7DMA call sign.

It was a real eye opener because we had never really thought about speed.  We 
knew we were going faster that we used to, needed keyers  and whatnot but 
hadn’t really thought much about it.  We were just a bunch of Novices, having 
fun on the radio.

So, the point of this rambling?  

Try to find some friends on the air who like to chew the rag and get on the air 
with them as often as possible.  A group of similar speed operators who won’t 
need to ask someone to QRS or feel like they’re imposing on someone to operate 
slowly.  The value of that is huge.  Friendship, brotherhood, and shared goals 
make it easy to overcome the angst and build speed and competence.  And, it’s 
fun!

It is unfortunate the old Novice bands are gone but I do hear lots of guys 
higher in the CW segments, lumbering along at 10 WPM.  Sometimes I get on and 
work one of them because I like to see them doing what they’re doing.  It takes 
some courage to jump on 20 meters and call CQ at 10 WPM..

One more thing.  Once you can copy 15 WPM (or so) loose the pencil or keyboard. 
 Start copying in your head.  CW then becomes a conversation and your speed 
will start to inch upward.  One day you’ll be clipping along at 30 WPM and not 
even thinking about it.  You’ll just be chatting with a friend..

73 and see you on the air!

Doug, W7KF
http://www.w7kf.com 



> 
> On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, KENT TRIMBLE  > wrote:
> 
>> I thoroughly agree with Kev about "getting on the air."
>> 
>> I teach two and sometimes three Morse Code classes every Saturday
>> morning.  The students all KNOW the code.  They can accurately copy 10 WPM
>> and above, and can send quite decently.  But no matter how much I
>> encourage, cajole, or "coddle," they resist my pleas to get "on the air"
>> for all kinds of reasons, but primarily two -- either no one comes back to
>> them or all they can find are speed demons who won't slow down.
>> 
>> The worse thing the FCC ever did for amateur radio (in my opinion) was the
>> elimination of the non-renewable Novice license with the concomitant doing
>> away of the Novice sub-bands.  Those were safe-harbors for neophytes to
>> find each other, work each other, and improve each other without feeling
>> intimidated.  The non-renewable aspect served to motivate those who were
>> desirous of deeper involvement in communications, and to give a graceful
>> exit to those who weren't.
>> 
>> All the computer programs and well-structured academies in-the-world are
>> simply no substitute for good old-fashioned one-on-one Morse Code work
>> between two eager and nervous operators.  That's how you learn best and how
>> you learn quickest. And an even greater dividend is that you learn about
>> propagation, procedures, tuning skills, how receivers work, signal paths,
>> solar effects, antenna fundamentals, and a host of other things that can't
>> be learned on a laptop, no matter how well the application is executed or
>> the content designed.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Kent  K9ZTV
>> 

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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Fred Moore]

I am convinced that the barrier most folks have is from bad habits that
allow you to unconsciously learn double and triple conversion in your head.

when you are slow..  hear the sound, count the elements, determine what
it means, then convert to writing.. 

I am 100% convinced that doing anything to fix that problem is the only
solution to the problem.. 

My real life story, which has been applied to multiple other people and
has fixed the problem in most cases..

Back in the mid 70es I was trying to break the 13 WPM barrier to get my
General License.. I was working several stations per night but not
getting anywhere with my speed..  A friend at work who was not a ham,
but taught CW in the Army finally heard from me enough and said "are you
free tonight and do you have a code practice oscillator"  I did so over
he came..

He grabbed a book from the shelf, handed me some paper and said..

I am going to transmit at 15WPM for the next 15 minutes.  I want to you
write each letter down, don't worry about the mistakes I don't care
about them..  I will not stop.

After the 15 minutes he took the paper and started writing down
letters...  He only wrote down the first letter I missed in a string
when done he said..

you are double translating in your head and there are 6 elements you
really don't know.  So after a cup of coffee, he sent me those 6 letters
for the next hour at 20 wpm, no writing only saying the letter out loud
as I heard them.  Spacing was also fast..  no farnsworth, don't even
think it existed them..  if I had it wrong he didn't say anything, he
just kept repeating the character till I had it correct then he went
on.   after a break, we then spent another hour doing the same thing
with all other elements and then he went home. 

The next night he came over and I not only was at 13wpm but could write
at 18 wpm 100%.

then he said.. now get on the air, from now on you are only allowed to
write name, call, address if sent, otherwise copy in your head..you
now know all elements of the code, if you are writing you are
translating from ear to mind to hand,  you do not want to translate at
all, anyone is capable of writing from memory without stopping to
translate..

problem fixed..  and have been enjoying CW since then..  I have used
this method about 10 times myself on other hams, and in all but one case
the problem was fixed...  

the moral..  listen to faster code than you need, and put down the
pencil and paper.. Fred

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
   wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 6/12/17 5:59 AM, Rick M0LEP wrote:
> I only allowed myself to buy my KX3 after I'd completed a number of CW 
> QSOs. I stumbled through most of them, but I confidently expected the 
> KX3 would provide me with an incentive to improve my Morse, and I'd get 
> better at it quite quickly. It didn't quite work out that way, though. 
> I've had my KX3 since February 2013, and I'm still mostly stumbling 
> along at sub-12wpm.
>
> I don't think there is any such thing as "The Perfect Method". I was 
> sold on "Koch" (with a side order of "Farnsworth"), which some folk 
> swear is the One True Way to learn Morse, but the Koch incremental 
> approach turned out to be a complete waste of time for me.
>
> I suspect good teaching in a face-to-face class would probably have 
> worked a lot better, but that sort of thing is pretty much impossible to 
> find these days. The CWOps courses seem to get quite a bit of praise, 
> and while they're not quite face-to-face (as they rely on something like 
> Skype) they are at least led by real people rather than machines. Their 
> main drawback is that they seem to have a waiting list well over a year 
> long.
>
> At the end of the day, I expect improving your Morse mostly comes down 
> to practice, practice, practice. Having that practice guided by an 
> experienced teacher would probably help a lot. If you can, find some 
> local experienced Morse mentors, listen to their advice, and then 
> practice, practice, practice...
>
> and try to get out and operate at whatever speed you can manage.
>
> On Sun 11 Jun Jim Sr Sturges wrote:
>> I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.
>>
>> Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
>> you will share?


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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Keith Hutt]

That is the essence of learning CW in a nutshell.

Back in 1969 when i attended college to become a Merchant Navy RO, CW was a 
function that had to mastered, no CW no job it was that simple.


22 people on the course from all walks of life. all with the dream of 
becoming Radio Officers. No excuses of i cant do it etc, you had to learn.


Anyone can learn CW all it takes are the things listed by the previous 
author, there is no magic about all it is is practice, practice and more 
practice.


Anyway after about 6 months of CW every day Monday to Friday we were all at 
the required speed of 25 WPM sending and receiving.


Some found it easier than others but everyone got their.

I suppose the ,main difference is simple you could pass the other 6 exams 
but fail CW it was a complete fail, retake all the exams in 12 months time. 
But when your future

life depends on it you put the effort in and pass.

So good luck to everyone learning CW, but it really is simple put the effort 
in you will learn, speed comes with practice and more practice.



Regards

Keith G0TSH


-Original Message- 
From: Marvin Wheeler

Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 4:06 PM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

I think there are three factors necessary to learning CW. All are important
and they are:



1. Desire
2. Patience
3. Persistence



There is no other easy or quick way to achieve your goal.



Marv

KG7V



K3S, KPA500, KANT3m P3





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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Bill Brooks]

Amen, Kent.

Bill, KE5OG


On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, KENT TRIMBLE  wrote:

> I thoroughly agree with Kev about "getting on the air."
>
> I teach two and sometimes three Morse Code classes every Saturday
> morning.  The students all KNOW the code.  They can accurately copy 10 WPM
> and above, and can send quite decently.  But no matter how much I
> encourage, cajole, or "coddle," they resist my pleas to get "on the air"
> for all kinds of reasons, but primarily two -- either no one comes back to
> them or all they can find are speed demons who won't slow down.
>
> The worse thing the FCC ever did for amateur radio (in my opinion) was the
> elimination of the non-renewable Novice license with the concomitant doing
> away of the Novice sub-bands.  Those were safe-harbors for neophytes to
> find each other, work each other, and improve each other without feeling
> intimidated.  The non-renewable aspect served to motivate those who were
> desirous of deeper involvement in communications, and to give a graceful
> exit to those who weren't.
>
> All the computer programs and well-structured academies in-the-world are
> simply no substitute for good old-fashioned one-on-one Morse Code work
> between two eager and nervous operators.  That's how you learn best and how
> you learn quickest. And an even greater dividend is that you learn about
> propagation, procedures, tuning skills, how receivers work, signal paths,
> solar effects, antenna fundamentals, and a host of other things that can't
> be learned on a laptop, no matter how well the application is executed or
> the content designed.
>
> 73,
>
> Kent  K9ZTV
>
>
>
> On 6/12/2017 9:43 AM, Scott Manthe wrote:
>
>> How in the world is someone learning something in a way that most suits
>> them "coddling?" People learn things differently, even Morse. Finding the
>> way that best suits someone is not coddling them, it's helping them to
>> learn efficiently.
>>
>> Scott N9AA
>>
>>
>> On 6/12/17 8:18 AM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
>>
>>> ​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and
>>> having
>>> as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Kev
>>> ​
>>>
>>
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>



-- 
Bill Brooks
432-244-8863
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[KENT TRIMBLE]

I thoroughly agree with Kev about "getting on the air."

I teach two and sometimes three Morse Code classes every Saturday 
morning.  The students all KNOW the code.  They can accurately copy 10 
WPM and above, and can send quite decently.  But no matter how much I 
encourage, cajole, or "coddle," they resist my pleas to get "on the air" 
for all kinds of reasons, but primarily two -- either no one comes back 
to them or all they can find are speed demons who won't slow down.


The worse thing the FCC ever did for amateur radio (in my opinion) was 
the elimination of the non-renewable Novice license with the concomitant 
doing away of the Novice sub-bands.  Those were safe-harbors for 
neophytes to find each other, work each other, and improve each other 
without feeling intimidated.  The non-renewable aspect served to 
motivate those who were desirous of deeper involvement in 
communications, and to give a graceful exit to those who weren't.


All the computer programs and well-structured academies in-the-world are 
simply no substitute for good old-fashioned one-on-one Morse Code work 
between two eager and nervous operators.  That's how you learn best and 
how you learn quickest. And an even greater dividend is that you learn 
about propagation, procedures, tuning skills, how receivers work, signal 
paths, solar effects, antenna fundamentals, and a host of other things 
that can't be learned on a laptop, no matter how well the application is 
executed or the content designed.


73,

Kent  K9ZTV



On 6/12/2017 9:43 AM, Scott Manthe wrote:
How in the world is someone learning something in a way that most 
suits them "coddling?" People learn things differently, even Morse. 
Finding the way that best suits someone is not coddling them, it's 
helping them to learn efficiently.


Scott N9AA


On 6/12/17 8:18 AM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and 
having

as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.

73,
Kev
​


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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[wb6rse1]

Farnsworth.

http://www.justlearnmorsecode.com/farnsworth.html

73 - Steve WB6RSE
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Jim Allen]

One approach is to expand one's vocabulary.  You recognize CQ at almost any 
speed, because it is so familiar, as well as most "Q" signals, RST, BT, BK, 
etc.  

Hardly anyone needs to copy 5 letter groups these days like we did as Navy 
radiomen.

One fellow has provided this:

http://www.hamradioqrp.com/2016/11/get-used-to-common-stuff.html

73 Jim Allen W6OGC 

Sent from my iPad
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Kevin - K4VD]

Hello Scott. Out of all that you only quote the word coddling? I didn't say
anything about how someone else should learn Morse code (other than maybe
Just do it). I said how I learned it. Nothing fancy, nose to the
grindstone, learn by doing. It's just Morse code. It is not a new language.
It is a substitute for letters in our existing language. There's 26
letters, 10 numbers and a handful of prosigns. Not terribly complicated.

You seem to need a cause to fight for but it's not here. People do learn
things differently and I shared how I learned. That can't be changed.

Kev K4VD


On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Scott Manthe 
wrote:

> How in the world is someone learning something in a way that most suits
> them "coddling?" People learn things differently, even Morse. Finding the
> way that best suits someone is not coddling them, it's helping them to
> learn efficiently.
>
> Scott N9AA
>
>
> On 6/12/17 8:18 AM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:
>
>> ​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and having
>> as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.
>>
>> 73,
>> Kev
>> ​
>> __
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>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Marvin Wheeler]

I think there are three factors necessary to learning CW. All are important
and they are:

 

1.  Desire
2.  Patience
3.  Persistence

 

There is no other easy or quick way to achieve your goal.

 

Marv

KG7V

 

K3S, KPA500, KANT3m P3

 



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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Scott Manthe]

How in the world is someone learning something in a way that most suits 
them "coddling?" People learn things differently, even Morse. Finding 
the way that best suits someone is not coddling them, it's helping them 
to learn efficiently.


Scott N9AA


On 6/12/17 8:18 AM, Kevin - K4VD wrote:

​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and having
as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.

73,
Kev
​
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Kevin - K4VD]

​I learned code by memorizing 5 wpm and then getting on the air and having
as many contacts as I could. Nothing fancy, no coddling. Just do it.

73,
Kev
​
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP]

Without going into too much detail (or extending this OT thread too 
much!), the way to get over the sub-12 wpm "hump" is to learn to copy 
short words and combinations of letters ("ing" "the" "out" etc.) as a 
unit, and not one character at a time.


One way to practice this is to use the well-known RUFZxp program 

and to tell it to use a list of such short words and pieces of words in 
place of callsigns. Such lists are available (google "rufzxp word list") 
already prepared. Then you set it to go a little faster than you can 
comfortably copy, and listen. When you recognize a word or piece of one, 
you can type it in. But wait until you've recognized the whole thing 
before starting to type.


73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
(A CWops CWA instructor)
On 12 Jun 2017 12:59, Rick M0LEP wrote:

I only allowed myself to buy my KX3 after I'd completed a number of CW
QSOs. I stumbled through most of them, but I confidently expected the
KX3 would provide me with an incentive to improve my Morse, and I'd get
better at it quite quickly. It didn't quite work out that way, though.
I've had my KX3 since February 2013, and I'm still mostly stumbling
along at sub-12wpm.

I don't think there is any such thing as "The Perfect Method". I was
sold on "Koch" (with a side order of "Farnsworth"), which some folk
swear is the One True Way to learn Morse, but the Koch incremental
approach turned out to be a complete waste of time for me.

I suspect good teaching in a face-to-face class would probably have
worked a lot better, but that sort of thing is pretty much impossible to
find these days. The CWOps courses seem to get quite a bit of praise,
and while they're not quite face-to-face (as they rely on something like
Skype) they are at least led by real people rather than machines. Their
main drawback is that they seem to have a waiting list well over a year
long.

At the end of the day, I expect improving your Morse mostly comes down
to practice, practice, practice. Having that practice guided by an
experienced teacher would probably help a lot. If you can, find some
local experienced Morse mentors, listen to their advice, and then
practice, practice, practice...

and try to get out and operate at whatever speed you can manage.

On Sun 11 Jun Jim Sr Sturges wrote:

I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.

Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
you will share?



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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Rick M0LEP]

I only allowed myself to buy my KX3 after I'd completed a number of CW 
QSOs. I stumbled through most of them, but I confidently expected the 
KX3 would provide me with an incentive to improve my Morse, and I'd get 
better at it quite quickly. It didn't quite work out that way, though. 
I've had my KX3 since February 2013, and I'm still mostly stumbling 
along at sub-12wpm.

I don't think there is any such thing as "The Perfect Method". I was 
sold on "Koch" (with a side order of "Farnsworth"), which some folk 
swear is the One True Way to learn Morse, but the Koch incremental 
approach turned out to be a complete waste of time for me.

I suspect good teaching in a face-to-face class would probably have 
worked a lot better, but that sort of thing is pretty much impossible to 
find these days. The CWOps courses seem to get quite a bit of praise, 
and while they're not quite face-to-face (as they rely on something like 
Skype) they are at least led by real people rather than machines. Their 
main drawback is that they seem to have a waiting list well over a year 
long.

At the end of the day, I expect improving your Morse mostly comes down 
to practice, practice, practice. Having that practice guided by an 
experienced teacher would probably help a lot. If you can, find some 
local experienced Morse mentors, listen to their advice, and then 
practice, practice, practice...

and try to get out and operate at whatever speed you can manage.

On Sun 11 Jun Jim Sr Sturges wrote:
> I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.
> 
> Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
> you will share?

-- 
73, Rick, M0LEP   (KX3 #3281)
The Alchemist's Guild is opposite the Gambler's Guild. Usually.
Sometimes it's above it, or below it, or falling in bits around it.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Men At Arms)

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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Erik Basilier]

I learned morse by copying from 78 rpm phongraph records, gradually
increasing the speed, but I believe modern methods based of Farnsworth are
far superior. 

My club asked me to think about how the club could conduct cw training. I
searched for resources online, and was very impressed when I found the cwops
program some time ago. Students must participate in a series of lessons
where they each both receive and transmit, always at 20 wpm, but with extra
space between characters a la Farnsworth. 3 courses are conducted each year,
via Skype, with students from around the globe. You can easily find that out
online, but here is some additional detail. I asked cwops if they would let
me teach their curriculum locally to our club members, with a time schedule
of our own choosing, and over an FM repeater rather than Skype. The answer
was yes. So, if their schedule doesn't fit you, do ask them, and maybe you
can get something going with your club. Neither instructor nor students need
to be or become cwops members. So far, nothing has come of these ideas in my
club. The requirements that students obtain paddles and keyers suitable for
sending at 20 wpm, and commit to attend the full series of lessons, may be a
strumbling block. Nevertheless I think the program looks great, and I would
be very interested to hear about the experiences of others that have
actually used the cwops program. 

Another thought: For copy practice, you want to listen to speeds faster than
what you are currently comfortable with. That can be frustrating if there is
no way to compare what you caught with the full and correct text. Here is a
way to get that access to the corect answer. Participate in a contest such
as Field Day, where a given station's exchange is the same for every qso.
Find a station using the desired speed that is running CQ on a frequency.
Listen to a few of his qso's until you have copied his callsign and exchange
information (something like 3A SFL, which stands for class 3A in the Section
of South Florida; you should already know the corresponding info for your
own station). Once you are at that point, give him a call when he is done
with a qso. You know that it is time to call him when he sends something
like QRZ or FD or CONTEST. Don't send his callsign, only your own, and don't
bother with K or BK or variations thereof. It is ok to send at a lower speed
as long as you don't send any unneeded info in addition to your callsign.
Once you hear him send your callsign, send your own exchange information.
Etc.  Repeats are often requested by AGN (send it all again) or CLS (send
your class) or SEC (send your section). The qso is over when both stations
have sent R or QSL or some equivalent. The whole qso is so short that you
don't need to send your own callsign again at the end; when you sent it at
the beginning, that also counts as the end. The fact that you can take
plenty of time to copy his information, and that the information is short
and follows a predictable pattern, makes you comfortable communicating at a
speed higher than your normal capability, and meanwhile your brain is
getting used to the sound of high speed morse. 

73,
Erik K7TV

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of dgb
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:37 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

Yes, the best is

http://www.cwops.org/cwacademy.html

73 Dwight NS9I


On 6/11/2017 5:25 PM, Jim Sr Sturges wrote:
> I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.
>
> Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I 
> hope you will share?
>
> To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs 
> Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron 
> burns, again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and 
> the price is amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.
>
> Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is 
> not for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried 
> hint in PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the 
> PA transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and 
> re-discovered that my micromanipulation skills are right up there with 
> my CW -- maybe better, which is damned depressing.
>
> So, any help mastering Morse?
>
> Thanks in advance and 73,
>
> Jim N3SZ
>

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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Rod Hardman(VA3ON)]

Jim 
I'll endorse your experience with the installation PAE's excellent heatsink for 
the KX2.
I jumped into that operation with a Swiss Army knife and a set of forceps at 
the hotel while at Dayton hamvention. 
Holding on the two washers, nut and bolt simultaneously in a confined space is 
playing "Twister" with your fingers!
That said, I love the kit - combined with the Lexan cover, the kit is both 
functional and attractive.
Fun to get an installation challenge from time to time!!
/Rod VA3ON

On Jun 11, 2017, at 18:25, Jim Sr Sturges  wrote:

I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.

Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
you will share?

To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs
Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron burns,
again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and the price is
amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.

Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is not
for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried hint in
PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the PA
transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and re-discovered that
my micromanipulation skills are right up there with my CW -- maybe better,
which is damned depressing.

So, any help mastering Morse?

Thanks in advance and 73,

Jim N3SZ

-- 
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Hi Jim:

I KNOW I learned Morse all wrong, according to today's experts. Listened to
ARRL bulletins, code practice tapes a neighbor Ham made for me and a buddy
and practiced sending on a straight key focusing on proper spacing at all
times. 

I can copy 40 to 45 wpm in my head, 35 wpm on a keyboard and 20 wpm on
paper. Since 99.9% of QSO's I encounter on the air are at around 20 wpm I've
never pushed much beyond that for routine operating. 

So the obvious questions are:

What speed do you want to attain? 

What technique are you using to raise your speed? (My "technique" has always
been to copy a LOT of CW and try to find stations sending at about my upper
limit. I don't need to work them. In fact not having to copy is an
advantage. I just want to "read the mail".) 

What is a PAE heat sink, an after-market heat sink?

73 Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Sr Sturges
Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2017 3:25 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.

Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
you will share?

To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs
Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron burns,
again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and the price is
amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.

Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is not
for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried hint in
PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the PA
transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and re-discovered that
my micromanipulation skills are right up there with my CW -- maybe better,
which is damned depressing.

So, any help mastering Morse?

Thanks in advance and 73,

Jim N3SZ

--
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
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Re: [Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[dgb]

Yes, the best is

http://www.cwops.org/cwacademy.html

73 Dwight NS9I


On 6/11/2017 5:25 PM, Jim Sr Sturges wrote:

I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.

Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
you will share?

To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs
Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron burns,
again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and the price is
amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.

Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is not
for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried hint in
PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the PA
transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and re-discovered that
my micromanipulation skills are right up there with my CW -- maybe better,
which is damned depressing.

So, any help mastering Morse?

Thanks in advance and 73,

Jim N3SZ



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[Elecraft] OT Learning Morse anew

[Jim Sr Sturges]

I think I learned code all wrong. Can't ever seem to get my speed up.

Surely some of the astute among you _know_ The Perfect Method, and I hope
you will share?

To complete the OT-ness of this msg, I recently completed the QRP Labs
Ultimate WSPR/QRSS kit and re-learned the joys of soldering iron burns,
again. Certainly nothing wrong with Hans' excellent kits, and the price is
amazing for the functionality, design, and quality.

Then I installed the PAE heat sink end panels on my KX2. The latter is not
for the faint of heart! I STRONGLY recommend the somewhat buried hint in
PAE's instructions to remove the AT board before attaching the PA
transistors to the heat sink. Tried it the other way and re-discovered that
my micromanipulation skills are right up there with my CW -- maybe better,
which is damned depressing.

So, any help mastering Morse?

Thanks in advance and 73,

Jim N3SZ

-- 
Jim Sturges, N3SZ
Amateur Radio operators do it with frequency.
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