Re: [Elecraft] RJ45 to DE9 cable (E980297) for upgraded K3

2016-10-02 Thread Don Wilhelm 

Yngvi,

I don't know if that cable will work or not.
But, you can order Elecraft p/n E980297 from Elecraft if you want a 
replacement.

If you also have the P3, you may want CBLP3Y instead.
See the KIO3B Installation instructions, page 14.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/2/2016 8:33 AM, Yngvi (TF3Y) wrote:

Hi folks.

I misplaced my RJ45 to DE9 cable for my upgraded K3.

After a while I found this (see photo on link below):
https://goo.gl/photos/LJwu7gZpEsx6N1K47

This cable looks like it may be the one but I´m not sure. I had two of
those one with a female DE9 and the other with a male DE9.

However, I have a faint memory of the cable I got with my KIO3B upgrade
having been gray whereas these are blue.

Can I measure the cables? Where would I be able to locate a diagram for the
pinout?

Thanks / 73,
Yngvi TF3Y


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[Elecraft] RJ45 to DE9 cable (E980297) for upgraded K3

2016-10-02 Thread Yngvi (TF3Y) 
Hi folks.

I misplaced my RJ45 to DE9 cable for my upgraded K3.

After a while I found this (see photo on link below):
https://goo.gl/photos/LJwu7gZpEsx6N1K47

This cable looks like it may be the one but I´m not sure. I had two of
those one with a female DE9 and the other with a male DE9.

However, I have a faint memory of the cable I got with my KIO3B upgrade
having been gray whereas these are blue.

Can I measure the cables? Where would I be able to locate a diagram for the
pinout?

Thanks / 73,
Yngvi TF3Y
-- 
http://www.tf3y.net
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[Elecraft] Elecraft, RJ45 Standard.

2016-05-10 Thread David Robertson 
Kevin, Thanks for pointing out my typo. I meant 4 pairs.

73

-- 
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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Re: [Elecraft] elecraft,RJ45 Standard

2016-05-09 Thread Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft 
Folks - due to the large number of posts on this topic, let's end the thread at 
this time to give our other readers a rest.


73,

Eric
Moderator
/elecraft.com/


On 5/9/2016 3:10 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

On 5/9/2016 10:03 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

At audio levels, the shielding from twisting the wires might be helpful.


It is VERY helpful. 


When I said *might* I was being slightly sarcastic.

If a cable has an RJ-45 on each end, there is always a chance in a modern home 
that the cable is going to carry ethernet or find itself in some other spot 
that matters.


In fact, Murphy is going to see to it that out of all of the cables available, 
you'll grab that one.


73 -- Lynn


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Re: [Elecraft] elecraft,RJ45 Standard

2016-05-09 Thread Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 

On 5/9/2016 10:03 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

At audio levels, the shielding from twisting the wires might be helpful.


It is VERY helpful. 


When I said *might* I was being slightly sarcastic.

If a cable has an RJ-45 on each end, there is always a chance in a 
modern home that the cable is going to carry ethernet or find itself in 
some other spot that matters.


In fact, Murphy is going to see to it that out of all of the cables 
available, you'll grab that one.


73 -- Lynn

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Re: [Elecraft] elecraft,RJ45 Standard

2016-05-09 Thread Jim Brown 

On Mon,5/9/2016 1:21 PM, dave wrote:


> You're missing the fact that although these conductors INTENTIONALLY
> carry DC and low rate signals, they also can PICK UP RF and AF noise.
> Twisted pair, when used to carry a signal, is at least as powerful at
> rejecting RF and AF noise pickup as coax, but ONLY if the pair is
> dedicated to a circuit.

And also only if the twisted pair is properly terminated in a balanced 
termination - on both ends. I was field engineer for Bell. I was 
sometimes totally amazed at just how good twisted pair are at 
rejecting noise. As good as coax, if not better.


Not true. Yes, cancellation can be improved by balanced termination, but 
ONLY if balanced broadband -- that is, DC to the highest frequencies of 
the interference.  But twisted pair is VERY effective at rejecting 
magnetic coupling even when the interface is unbalanced.


I learned this from solving a severe RFI problem problem with the serial 
interface to my K2, way back in 2003. I was using the "official"Elecraft 
cable, which was parallel conductors, NOT twisted, and my TX antenna was 
a top-loaded end fed wire with a tuner in the shack for 160 and 80M. At 
only 12W, coupling to ,my computer via that serial cable caused it to 
lock up.


I replaced that parallel wire cable with CAT5, using one pair per 
circuit, and making the return connection to the DB9 shells, NOT to the 
"ground" pin (to solve Pin One Problems). Once I had changed the cable, 
I could run my Ten Tec Titan to legal limit with no interference up to 
17 MHz when I intentionally loaded that same antenna on all the HF 
bands. If I used shielded twisted pair, I could run full power up 
through 10M.




But . . . the telco pairs are terminated in carefully balanced 
terminations. I don't think the typical ham/audio install is so 
carefully designed. They may be, I don't know for sure. I suspect the 
terminations are, for the most part, unbalanced. There will still be 
some rejection of noise, maybe a good deal. But not as good as if 
properly terminated.


See my comments above.



I have used twisted pair here with good success, but there is some 
luck involved if the pairs are not properly terminated.


I have yet to see a situation where twisted pair made things worse, and 
it often solves serious RFI issues. In the pro audio world, it is well 
known, for example, that loudspeaker cables should ALWAYS be twisted 
pair, NEVER parallel wires (zip cord, glorified or not). Sadly, the high 
futility folks have never learned that, and most hams haven't either. 
Audio power amps use feedback around the output stage to reduce 
distortion, a technique first developed more than 100 years ago (by Bell 
Labs, I think). RF on the speaker cable will couple via that feedback 
network to the input of the audio output stage. Replacing the zip cord 
with twisted pair is an effective fix.


Nearly 40 years ago, Prof R. A. Greiner at U of Wis published an AES 
paper that showed that for all practical purposes, the only thing that 
matters with loudspeaker cable is DC resistance, and that lower is 
better.  The sole exception was with a VERY rare type of loudspeaker 
that had a very low impedance at high audio frequencies. The impedance 
of 99.99% of loudspeakers increases rapidly with increasing frequency.  
His paper can be found in the Journal of AES in any decent university's 
technical library. And yes, one of the cables he considered was sold 
under the Kimber name, which was mfd on the concept of litz wire. :)


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] elecraft,RJ45 Standard

2016-05-09 Thread dave 


> You're missing the fact that although these conductors INTENTIONALLY
> carry DC and low rate signals, they also can PICK UP RF and AF noise.
> Twisted pair, when used to carry a signal, is at least as powerful at
> rejecting RF and AF noise pickup as coax, but ONLY if the pair is
> dedicated to a circuit.

And also only if the twisted pair is properly terminated in a balanced 
termination - on both ends. I was field engineer for Bell. I was 
sometimes totally amazed at just how good twisted pair are at 
rejecting noise. As good as coax, if not better.


But . . . the telco pairs are terminated in carefully balanced 
terminations. I don't think the typical ham/audio install is so 
carefully designed. They may be, I don't know for sure. I suspect the 
terminations are, for the most part, unbalanced. There will still be 
some rejection of noise, maybe a good deal. But not as good as if 
properly terminated.


I have used twisted pair here with good success, but there is some 
luck involved if the pairs are not properly terminated.


73 de dave
ab9ca/4



On 5/9/16 12:03 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On Mon,5/9/2016 9:41 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:

If we're talking DC levels, sure, no problem.  Low rate signalling
just won't matter.


You're missing the fact that although these conductors INTENTIONALLY
carry DC and low rate signals, they also can PICK UP RF and AF noise.
Twisted pair, when used to carry a signal, is at least as powerful at
rejecting RF and AF noise pickup as coax, but ONLY if the pair is
dedicated to a circuit. That only happens when both ends of the cable
are correctly wired. That is, OR and OR/WH will reject noise, but OR
and GN will NOT.


At audio levels, the shielding from twisting the wires might be
helpful.


It is VERY helpful.



If we're actually using them for Ethernet, then the twisted pairs
aren't wires, they're transmission lines.  100 megabit ethernet is
running at 100 megahertz.


Right. AND -- they are transmission lines at RF frequencies even when
the INTENDED signal is AF or even DC.  THAT'S HOW they reject RF and
AF noise.



Wire the cable randomly and you don't have twisted pairs
(transmission lines) at VHF frequencies (or above).


And you don't have them at AF or HF either.

Bottom line -- CAT5 and similar cables are excellent for control
wiring and even for RF, but we must  ALWAYS wire them so that every
circuit uses a pair. Wiring them any other way is a recipe for noise
and RFI.

73, Jim K9YC


73 -- Lynn


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Re: [Elecraft] elecraft,RJ45 Standard

2016-05-09 Thread Jim Brown 

On Mon,5/9/2016 9:41 AM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT wrote:
If we're talking DC levels, sure, no problem.  Low rate signalling 
just won't matter.


You're missing the fact that although these conductors INTENTIONALLY 
carry DC and low rate signals, they also can PICK UP RF and AF noise. 
Twisted pair, when used to carry a signal, is at least as powerful at 
rejecting RF and AF noise pickup as coax, but ONLY if the pair is 
dedicated to a circuit. That only happens when both ends of the cable 
are correctly wired. That is, OR and OR/WH will reject noise, but OR and 
GN will NOT.


At audio levels, the shielding from twisting the wires might be helpful.


It is VERY helpful.



If we're actually using them for Ethernet, then the twisted pairs 
aren't wires, they're transmission lines.  100 megabit ethernet is 
running at 100 megahertz.


Right. AND -- they are transmission lines at RF frequencies even when 
the INTENDED signal is AF or even DC.  THAT'S HOW they reject RF and AF 
noise.




Wire the cable randomly and you don't have twisted pairs (transmission 
lines) at VHF frequencies (or above).


And you don't have them at AF or HF either.

Bottom line -- CAT5 and similar cables are excellent for control wiring 
and even for RF, but we must  ALWAYS wire them so that every circuit 
uses a pair. Wiring them any other way is a recipe for noise and RFI.


73, Jim K9YC


73 -- Lynn

On 5/9/2016 8:42 AM, David Robertson wrote:
As long as you maintain the same standard or a standard you create on 
BOTH

ends of the CAT 5 cable this cable could be used anywhere, regardless of
the system used.


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Re: [Elecraft] elecraft,RJ45 Standard

2016-05-09 Thread Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT 

Uh, maybe not.

If we're talking DC levels, sure, no problem.  Low rate signalling just 
won't matter.


At audio levels, the shielding from twisting the wires might be helpful.

If we're actually using them for Ethernet, then the twisted pairs aren't 
wires, they're transmission lines.  100 megabit ethernet is running at 
100 megahertz.


Wire the cable randomly and you don't have twisted pairs (transmission 
lines) at VHF frequencies (or above).


73 -- Lynn

On 5/9/2016 8:42 AM, David Robertson wrote:

As long as you maintain the same standard or a standard you create on BOTH
ends of the CAT 5 cable this cable could be used anywhere, regardless of
the system used. I understand that maintaining a standard of wire color
codes is important for tracing and troubleshooting purposes.



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Re: [Elecraft] elecraft,RJ45 Standard

2016-05-09 Thread Philip Carter 
Close. There are 4 pair.
 

On Monday, May 9, 2016 11:42 AM, David Robertson  wrote:
 

 David Robertson 
9:55 AM (1 hour ago)
to kenin.stover, Elecraft
Kevin,

Thanks for the information on the RJ45 standards. what confuses me is there
are 6 pair of wires in a CAT 5 cable. In the standards you list, the only
difference is the placement of the Orange/Orange-White and
Green/Green-White pair of wires.

As long as you maintain the same standard or a standard you create on BOTH
ends of the CAT 5 cable this cable could be used anywhere, regardless of
the system used. I understand that maintaining a standard of wire color
codes is important for tracing and troubleshooting purposes.

From: Kevin Stover 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Cc:
Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 18:50:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment
The standards go thusly.

TIA/EIA 568-A (T568A)

Pin 1 - white / green stripe

Pin 2 - green

Pin 3 - white / orange stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

pin 6 - orange

pin 7 - white / brown stripe

pin 8 - brown


TIA/EIA 568-B (T568B)

Pin 1 - white / orange stripe

Pin 2 - orange

Pin 3 - white / green stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

Pin 6 - green

Pin 7 - white / brown stripe

Pin 8 - brown

-- 
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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[Elecraft] elecraft,RJ45 Standard

2016-05-09 Thread David Robertson 
David Robertson 
9:55 AM (1 hour ago)
to kenin.stover, Elecraft
Kevin,

Thanks for the information on the RJ45 standards. what confuses me is there
are 6 pair of wires in a CAT 5 cable. In the standards you list, the only
difference is the placement of the Orange/Orange-White and
Green/Green-White pair of wires.

As long as you maintain the same standard or a standard you create on BOTH
ends of the CAT 5 cable this cable could be used anywhere, regardless of
the system used. I understand that maintaining a standard of wire color
codes is important for tracing and troubleshooting purposes.

From: Kevin Stover 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Cc:
Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 18:50:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment
The standards go thusly.

TIA/EIA 568-A (T568A)

Pin 1 - white / green stripe

Pin 2 - green

Pin 3 - white / orange stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

pin 6 - orange

pin 7 - white / brown stripe

pin 8 - brown


TIA/EIA 568-B (T568B)

Pin 1 - white / orange stripe

Pin 2 - orange

Pin 3 - white / green stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

Pin 6 - green

Pin 7 - white / brown stripe

Pin 8 - brown

-- 
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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Re: [Elecraft] RJ45

2016-05-09 Thread Dale Putnam 
Hi Dave,
  Your logic seems correct on the surface, however the CAT5 standard also 
states the number of twist per pair, 
and the placement of the different twists, on the ends also contribute to the 
minimizing of "crosstalk".
If you aren't attempting to be strict to the standards, then any wiring will 
work on the jacks.. understanding that signal attenuation, and crosstalk, and 
capacitance between pairs, and inductance between pairs, will be affected, such 
that the nominal signal attenuation, as stated for 100ft, will not be attained. 

Have a great day,
--... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy



From: Elecraft <elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net> on behalf of David Robertson 
<kd1na...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 9, 2016 7:55 AM
To: kenin.sto...@mediacombb.net; Elecraft
Subject: [Elecraft] RJ45

Kevin,

Thanks for the information on the RJ45 standards. what confuses me is there
are 6 pair of wires in a CAT 5 cable. In the standards you list, the only
difference is the placement of the Orange/Orange-White and
Green/Green-White pair of wires.

As long as you maintain the same standard or a standard you create on BOTH
ends of the CAT 5 cable this cable could be used anywhere, regardless of
the system used. I understand that maintaining a standard of wire color
codes is important for tracing and troubleshooting purposes.

From: Kevin Stover <kevin.sto...@mediacombb.net>
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Cc:
Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 18:50:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment
The standards go thusly.

TIA/EIA 568-A (T568A)

Pin 1 - white / green stripe

Pin 2 - green

Pin 3 - white / orange stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

pin 6 - orange

pin 7 - white / brown stripe

pin 8 - brown


TIA/EIA 568-B (T568B)

Pin 1 - white / orange stripe

Pin 2 - orange

Pin 3 - white / green stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

Pin 6 - green

Pin 7 - white / brown stripe

Pin 8 - brown


--
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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[Elecraft] RJ45

2016-05-09 Thread David Robertson 
Kevin,

Thanks for the information on the RJ45 standards. what confuses me is there
are 6 pair of wires in a CAT 5 cable. In the standards you list, the only
difference is the placement of the Orange/Orange-White and
Green/Green-White pair of wires.

As long as you maintain the same standard or a standard you create on BOTH
ends of the CAT 5 cable this cable could be used anywhere, regardless of
the system used. I understand that maintaining a standard of wire color
codes is important for tracing and troubleshooting purposes.

From: Kevin Stover 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Cc:
Date: Mon, 2 May 2016 18:50:46 -0500
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3S RJ-45 Pin Alignment
The standards go thusly.

TIA/EIA 568-A (T568A)

Pin 1 - white / green stripe

Pin 2 - green

Pin 3 - white / orange stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

pin 6 - orange

pin 7 - white / brown stripe

pin 8 - brown


TIA/EIA 568-B (T568B)

Pin 1 - white / orange stripe

Pin 2 - orange

Pin 3 - white / green stripe

Pin 4 - blue

Pin 5 - white / blue stripe

Pin 6 - green

Pin 7 - white / brown stripe

Pin 8 - brown


-- 
Dave Robertson KD1NA
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[Elecraft] RJ45 jack

2009-10-07 Thread Dick Frey 
I'm a new owner, and new to the list.

The manual says:
FP ACC This connector (RJ-45, 6 pins) is located on the bottom of the
transceiver, near the VFO B knob. It is used with accessory devices.

What are these devices and how are they connected? There's no pin definition
or reference in the schematic.


-- 
Dick - K4XU
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Re: [Elecraft] RJ45 jack

2009-10-07 Thread Don Wilhelm 
Dick,

Welcome the the Elecraft world!

Currently, there are no devices that use the RJ-45 connector.  There may 
be in the future, but for now it is only used at the factory for tests.

73,
Don W3FPR

Dick Frey wrote:
 I'm a new owner, and new to the list.

 The manual says:
 FP ACC This connector (RJ-45, 6 pins) is located on the bottom of the
 transceiver, near the VFO B knob. It is used with accessory devices.

 What are these devices and how are they connected? There's no pin definition
 or reference in the schematic.
   

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Re: [Elecraft] RJ45 jack

2009-10-07 Thread Radio Amateur N5GE 
On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:02:07 -0700, Dick Frey k4xu.1...@gmail.com
wrote:

I'm a new owner, and new to the list.

The manual says:
FP ACC This connector (RJ-45, 6 pins) is located on the bottom of the
transceiver, near the VFO B knob. It is used with accessory devices.

What are these devices and how are they connected? There's no pin definition
or reference in the schematic.

The accessories are the testing devices at the factory at this time.

73,

Tom, N5GE

n...@n5ge.com
K3 #806, K3 #1055, PR6,
XV144, XV432, KRC2,
W1 and other small kits.

2 W2's on order
1 K144XV on order

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.swotrc.net

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[Elecraft] RJ45 Older Rigblaste Mystery Solvedr

2005-05-08 Thread Lynn and Les 
Thanks Mike and others that answered my direct e-mail queries,

Well, the problem with connecting the RJ45 Rigblaster to the K-2 has been
solved, and I had several PSK and RTTY contacts to HP8 and VY5 today using
the Rigblaster.

After I changed the Rigblaster jumpers for the Kenwood mike family, I traced
schematics of the Rigblaster and K2 front panel (i.e., mike coneector) and
convinced myself that the setup had to work. I then compared the wire colors
at the modular jack of the original Rigblaster supplied RJ45 cable with the
one that I grabbed out of the junk box. The wire colors of the RJ 45 junk
box cable were exactly opposite of the Rigblaster cable. I was actually
grounding the PTT and mike AF signal at the K2 mike connector. I quickly
changed the wires at pins 1,2,7, and 8 of the K-2 mike connector, and I was
on the air. Cockpit error strikes again!!

S/N4751 is now on the air on CW, SSB, PKK and RTTY. SSTV is next.

73 and tnx agn,

Les WA3SGZ

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