Re: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft???
On Nov 2, 2005, at 12:01 PM, Dave G. wrote: I would think the Sienna is aimed at a different market than the traditional Elecraft'er.. possibly the digitally inclined Ham ?? It just seems, in the performance for dollar arena, if I have $3000 to spend, why would I buy the Sienna over the Ten-Tec Orion? Or even two K2/100s w/ KAT100s, if I want the whole build-it experience? It's hard to perceive what niche the Sienna is targeting. We'll have to wait and see how well they do. Bill Coleman, AA4LR, PP-ASELMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Quote: Not within a thousand years will man ever fly! -- Wilbur Wright, 1901 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft???
In a message dated 11/13/05 11:30:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It just seems, in the performance for dollar arena, if I have $3000 to spend, why would I buy the Sienna over the Ten-Tec Orion? Because: - you can work on a Sienna - Sienna has some features Orion doesn't - some folks with enough $$ will have *both* rigs... Or even two K2/100s w/ KAT100s, if I want the whole build-it experience? Because they're not the same. And it may not be about performance-per-dollar as much as about performance-no-matter-what-the-cost It's hard to perceive what niche the Sienna is targeting. Agreed. It's definitely not the same niche as the K2, seeing as how a fully-loaded K2-100 is about half the price of a barebones Sienna. Another thought: If a ham homebrews a rig, the entire cost is on him/her. But if a ham homebrews a rig and offers copies of it as a kit, which is the product of a small business, a lot of the cost can be transferred to the business as an expense. Someone who is enterprising enough to design a rig like the Sienna (or the K2) could have the enterprise to make it a business. And we all win. 73 de Jim, N2EY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft???
What is a Sienna??? I did a Google search and all I could find is its a Toyota??? Puzzled!! Jerry - NR5A - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft??? In a message dated 11/13/05 11:30:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It just seems, in the performance for dollar arena, if I have $3000 to spend, why would I buy the Sienna over the Ten-Tec Orion? Because: - you can work on a Sienna - Sienna has some features Orion doesn't - some folks with enough $$ will have *both* rigs... Or even two K2/100s w/ KAT100s, if I want the whole build-it experience? Because they're not the same. And it may not be about performance-per-dollar as much as about performance-no-matter-what-the-cost It's hard to perceive what niche the Sienna is targeting. Agreed. It's definitely not the same niche as the K2, seeing as how a fully-loaded K2-100 is about half the price of a barebones Sienna. Another thought: If a ham homebrews a rig, the entire cost is on him/her. But if a ham homebrews a rig and offers copies of it as a kit, which is the product of a small business, a lot of the cost can be transferred to the business as an expense. Someone who is enterprising enough to design a rig like the Sienna (or the K2) could have the enterprise to make it a business. And we all win. 73 de Jim, N2EY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft???
Boy, you really fell behind, didn't you, Jerry? Three weeks go by and they slipped half a dozen transceivers out on you. Anyway, the Sienna appears to be a high end kit ($3,000 for the stripped model, double that for the whole deal) where you get a bunch of pre-assembled boards and cable them together. It also has a built in PC. I assume you get to cable that together, too. I know...be still my heart! http://www.getboost.com/dz/default.htm I might have been interested, but Dave Benson just released the HiMite so I ordered that instead. Eric KE6US www.ke6us.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nr5a Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 5:38 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft??? What is a Sienna??? I did a Google search and all I could find is its a Toyota??? Puzzled!! Jerry - NR5A - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft??? In a message dated 11/13/05 11:30:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It just seems, in the performance for dollar arena, if I have $3000 to spend, why would I buy the Sienna over the Ten-Tec Orion? Because: - you can work on a Sienna - Sienna has some features Orion doesn't - some folks with enough $$ will have *both* rigs... Or even two K2/100s w/ KAT100s, if I want the whole build-it experience? Because they're not the same. And it may not be about performance-per-dollar as much as about performance-no-matter-what-the-cost It's hard to perceive what niche the Sienna is targeting. Agreed. It's definitely not the same niche as the K2, seeing as how a fully-loaded K2-100 is about half the price of a barebones Sienna. Another thought: If a ham homebrews a rig, the entire cost is on him/her. But if a ham homebrews a rig and offers copies of it as a kit, which is the product of a small business, a lot of the cost can be transferred to the business as an expense. Someone who is enterprising enough to design a rig like the Sienna (or the K2) could have the enterprise to make it a business. And we all win. 73 de Jim, N2EY ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re: Elecraft] Re Competition for Elecraft
Hi Mike, Sienna design goals (not final specs): MDS: -130dB (preamp off) IP3: +25dBm at 5 kHz spacing; preamp off Blocking Dynamic Range: 125 dB at 5 kHz spacing 2-Tone Dynamic Range: 90 dB at spacings = 5 kHz http://www.getboost.com/dz/sienna_specs.htm These are nothing great. If they were at 1-2 kHz spacings they would be getting close to Orion. But then you have a little issue with phase noise, which Ten-Tec uniquely addresses in Orion's synthesizer design: http://radio.tentec.com/cms-files/565_syn_article.pdf K2, IC-7800 and I suspect FT9000 (no close-in data yet) all fall apart at 2 kHz spacings due to phase noise issues. Note the f footnote in the second column from the right below. Measurement was Phase-Noise Limited rather than intermodulation limited http://www.sherweng.com/table.html 73, Bill W4ZV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re Competition for Elecraft
All, I don't get it. Being a performance per $$ snob, I haven't yet seen the receiver performance numbers that would convince that the money is worth it. Am I missing something? Mike VK1KCK K2 #2599 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft?
Gazooks! This rig has everything! No, wait, there is no crockpot for chili. Maybe it will be part of the extra $3000 worth of add-ons. Allen KA5N ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
[Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft???
Loyalty is a great thing and is to be admired, but to keep things in comparative and fair perspective... A fully loaded K2/100 with K2DSP and the external tuner is $1662 in kit form. And not forgetting that the K2 does NOT have a built in expandable PC with a USB I/O port...flash upgradeable. As for being semi-built... we have a fair number of gentlemen who will, and do, build K2's for users.. I would think the Sienna is aimed at a different market than the traditional Elecraft'er.. possibly the digitally inclined Ham ?? I have now donned my asbestos suit :^\ Dave KK7SS ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft???
This thread is getting repetitive (price being the main objection) but for the purpose of improving future Elecraft designs its worth noting that embedding a PC is a Bad Thing. For one thing, the 1GHz PC in the Sienna is already obsolete due to the lengthy design and manufacturing time associated with the rest of the radio. I bought a 2GHz PC last weekend for $299. I bet you pay more than that for the older technology in the Sienna. The only time it makes sense is if there's a fully integrated software package that controls the user interface and hides the fact that it's really an XP machine in the box. And even then you could accomplish the same thing using the cheaper Windows Embedded or even Linux OS. For example, the multi-function display in my airplane that shows traffic, weather radar, lightning strikes, and moving map is really a Windows NT computer running a program that takes over the system when it boots up. I don't care how much memory is in it and I have no idea how fast the processor is. It just works. If there was something like that in a radio I suppose I wouldn't care. Personally, I'd rather have a great software suite already in the radio rather than loading up an embedded computer with a bunch of freeware and letting me pick from among lots of mediocre options. I mean, you don't give me a piece of aluminum and tell me to punch holes for the buttons wherever I want. You design the front panel to optimize space usage, usability, parts placement, etc. I would expect the radio designer to do the same with the software. I wouldn't, for example, want to have to go to several places on the Web to download the software that runs the various controllers in the K2 and have to pick my preference from among several programs, some free and some for sale. All that said, I would love it if the K3 had a nice LCD color display with a bandscope, CW/RTTY/PSK/etc. coder/decoder built in, ability to display both A and B freqs at the same time, etc. And in true Elecraft tradition it should have a probe built in that I could move to various places so I could use the built-in display as an oscilloscope and logic analyzer for signal tracing. Not that I've ever made a mistake that required signal tracing, but it would be cool. (In my best Homer Simpson voice: mmm, technology for its own sake!.) Craig NZ0R K1 #1966 K2/100 #4941 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] Re: Competition for Elecraft???
Ahh, come on, some of us males, (and most hams are male) are colorblind -- really. Fred K6DGW Auburn CA CM98lw Simon Brown (HB9DRV) wrote: - Original Message - From: Craig Rairdin [EMAIL PROTECTED] All that said, I would love it if the K3 had a nice LCD color display... --- ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
