RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. Marketing execs tell us that people do listen to this kind of stuff, but do we? Is this stuff worth powder and shot? Anyhow, like Drake gear, all Elecraft stuff is by definition great, so who are we to argue or cause dissention among the foot soldiers or centurions? Best for the Lunar New Year to all Wyn, VR2AX ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
Wyn, A lot more people than you would expect are not only swayed, but often convinced about a particular product on the basis of 'a purely personal or subjective view'. It seems to me that only those of a highly technical mind are even interested in specifications and specifics. Try to find decent specifications for consumer grade products - either they do not exist or are guarded as though they are proprietary. Only the high end consumer products seem to make the specs available and most marketing is done using advertizing hype and testimonials. 73, Don W3FPR -Original Message- A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2/6/2007 5:52 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
I absolutely agree that reveiws are important. I always look at the specs (Engineer - as Don suggested), but I also look at reveiws. People who are unhappy are most likely to post reviews, so it is always worthwhile to see what kind of problems have been experienced. That said, people should know that reveiws can be biased, and that all equipment has problems from time to time. I suspect this request came from a couple bad reviews that were posted recently. I think they are worth reading, as at least one of them seems to be fairly well thought out, and hits on some legitimate issues, although they may have been blown out of proportion. Tom KG3V Quoting Don Wilhelm [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wyn, A lot more people than you would expect are not only swayed, but often convinced about a particular product on the basis of 'a purely personal or subjective view'. It seems to me that only those of a highly technical mind are even interested in specifications and specifics. Try to find decent specifications for consumer grade products - either they do not exist or are guarded as though they are proprietary. Only the high end consumer products seem to make the specs available and most marketing is done using advertizing hype and testimonials. 73, Don W3FPR -Original Message- A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.29/673 - Release Date: 2/6/2007 5:52 PM ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
I assure you it is! I market a digital wattmeter kit and almost every customer I poll says that eHam.net reviews were either the source of their initial exposure to my kit, or the deciding factor in purchasing. Some visit the site regularly looking for products with a rating of 5.0 or close and a large number of reviews, while some go there to verify performance claims, which may seem hard to believe otherwise in my case. Either way, it's by far my best marketing tool followed by comments on reflectors and word of mouth OTA, at club meetings, etc... all basically someone's opinion. I suspect it's the same with Elecraft. In other words, an impartial third party opinion counts more than a manufacturer's claims. 73, Larry N8LP www.telepostinc.com Wyn Hughes wrote: A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. Marketing execs tell us that people do listen to this kind of stuff, but do we? Is this stuff worth powder and shot? Anyhow, like Drake gear, all Elecraft stuff is by definition great, so who are we to argue or cause dissention among the foot soldiers or centurions? Best for the Lunar New Year to all Wyn, VR2AX ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
Working in technology, the VERY last thing I want to see is the shiny brochure full of market popular buzz words. I want to know the specs, and often those are debatable based on how things were measured, who measured them, and what the footnotes have to say. On the other hand user experience and out of the box perception counts for a lot. If you read a lot of these reviews, you develop a curmudgeon detector and filter. As a reasonable reader of reviews, I look at how many reviews there are. I understand that an unhappy person is more likely to post, but eham review availability has also developed into its own animal where hams will let other hams know about good stuff. Often the bad reviews do have some value to them, as most equipment has some nits to pick, justified or not. The same happens with the various Yahoo groups. The biggest thing I get out of these is the senses of failures. You start hearing a pattern of failed primaries, displays, and other issues. This can be worthwhile in deciding to buy now, or wait for the next version with more fixes. David Wilburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] K4DGW Wyn Hughes wrote: A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. Marketing execs tell us that people do listen to this kind of stuff, but do we? Is this stuff worth powder and shot? Anyhow, like Drake gear, all Elecraft stuff is by definition great, so who are we to argue or cause dissention among the foot soldiers or centurions? Best for the Lunar New Year to all Wyn, VR2AX ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
A couple of times I have emailed people who have made reviews and asked questions. Sometimes I haven't gotten an answer, but sometimes I have gotten valuable information. Leigh/WA5ZNU On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 5:33 am, Wyn Hughes wrote: but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
In addition, a subjective review hits things that the manufacturer's specs can't cover, such as: - Ergonomics of control, menus, etc. - For a kit, how difficult is it to build, how good are the instructions - How is the manufacturer to deal with, should there be a problem - How do the specifications translate into usable features and performance A more thorough review, such as that conducted by the ARRL, can verify the claimed specifications. Those detailed reviews are, unfortunately, difficult for the average ham to conduct, as they require specialized test equipment and fair bit of experience to interpret the results correctly. I also think that a negative review that is a rant without reason is appropriately discounted by the readers, compared with a negative review that cites specific faults or dislikes. In the interest of disclosure, I'm also the seller of a panadapter kit that is purchased about 95% by K2 owners, although it was not originally aimed at that market. I have one review of the Z90 on Eham.com under Third Party Equipment rating it a 5/5. Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com Larry Phipps wrote: I assure you it is! I market a digital wattmeter kit and almost every customer I poll says that eHam.net reviews were either the source of their initial exposure to my kit, or the deciding factor in purchasing. Some visit the site regularly looking for products with a rating of 5.0 or close and a large number of reviews, while some go there to verify performance claims, which may seem hard to believe otherwise in my case. Either way, it's by far my best marketing tool followed by comments on reflectors and word of mouth OTA, at club meetings, etc... all basically someone's opinion. I suspect it's the same with Elecraft. In other words, an impartial third party opinion counts more than a manufacturer's claims. 73, Larry N8LP www.telepostinc.com Wyn Hughes wrote: A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. Marketing execs tell us that people do listen to this kind of stuff, but do we? Is this stuff worth powder and shot? Anyhow, like Drake gear, all Elecraft stuff is by definition great, so who are we to argue or cause dissention among the foot soldiers or centurions? Best for the Lunar New Year to all Wyn, VR2AX ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
In addition, a subjective review hits things that the manufacturer's specs can't cover, such as: - Ergonomics of control, menus, etc. - For a kit, how difficult is it to build, how good are the instructions - How is the manufacturer to deal with, should there be a problem - How do the specifications translate into usable features and performance A more thorough review, such as that conducted by the ARRL, can verify the claimed specifications. Those detailed reviews are, unfortunately, difficult for the average ham to conduct, as they require specialized test equipment and fair bit of experience to interpret the results correctly. I also think that a negative review that is a rant without reason is appropriately discounted by the readers, compared with a negative review that cites specific faults or dislikes. In the interest of disclosure, I'm also the seller of a panadapter kit that is purchased about 95% by K2 owners, although it was not originally aimed at that market. I have one review of the Z90 on Eham.com under Third Party Equipment rating it a 5/5. Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com Larry Phipps wrote: I assure you it is! I market a digital wattmeter kit and almost every customer I poll says that eHam.net reviews were either the source of their initial exposure to my kit, or the deciding factor in purchasing. Some visit the site regularly looking for products with a rating of 5.0 or close and a large number of reviews, while some go there to verify performance claims, which may seem hard to believe otherwise in my case. Either way, it's by far my best marketing tool followed by comments on reflectors and word of mouth OTA, at club meetings, etc... all basically someone's opinion. I suspect it's the same with Elecraft. In other words, an impartial third party opinion counts more than a manufacturer's claims. 73, Larry N8LP www.telepostinc.com Wyn Hughes wrote: A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. Marketing execs tell us that people do listen to this kind of stuff, but do we? Is this stuff worth powder and shot? Anyhow, like Drake gear, all Elecraft stuff is by definition great, so who are we to argue or cause dissention among the foot soldiers or centurions? Best for the Lunar New Year to all Wyn, VR2AX ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
There are some issues with the ARRL reviews also. They seem to be very hesitant about saying anything much negative about rigs from the big boys, but do not hesitate to call a smaller business out on issues. The way they test is not always indicative of real world usage, as highlighted in Tadeusz Raczek's, SP7HT, article The DX Prowess of HF Receivers on the Elecraft website. David Wilburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack Smith wrote: In addition, a subjective review hits things that the manufacturer's specs can't cover, such as: - Ergonomics of control, menus, etc. - For a kit, how difficult is it to build, how good are the instructions - How is the manufacturer to deal with, should there be a problem - How do the specifications translate into usable features and performance A more thorough review, such as that conducted by the ARRL, can verify the claimed specifications. Those detailed reviews are, unfortunately, difficult for the average ham to conduct, as they require specialized test equipment and fair bit of experience to interpret the results correctly. I also think that a negative review that is a rant without reason is appropriately discounted by the readers, compared with a negative review that cites specific faults or dislikes. In the interest of disclosure, I'm also the seller of a panadapter kit that is purchased about 95% by K2 owners, although it was not originally aimed at that market. I have one review of the Z90 on Eham.com under Third Party Equipment rating it a 5/5. Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com Larry Phipps wrote: I assure you it is! I market a digital wattmeter kit and almost every customer I poll says that eHam.net reviews were either the source of their initial exposure to my kit, or the deciding factor in purchasing. Some visit the site regularly looking for products with a rating of 5.0 or close and a large number of reviews, while some go there to verify performance claims, which may seem hard to believe otherwise in my case. Either way, it's by far my best marketing tool followed by comments on reflectors and word of mouth OTA, at club meetings, etc... all basically someone's opinion. I suspect it's the same with Elecraft. In other words, an impartial third party opinion counts more than a manufacturer's claims. 73, Larry N8LP www.telepostinc.com Wyn Hughes wrote: A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. Marketing execs tell us that people do listen to this kind of stuff, but do we? Is this stuff worth powder and shot? Anyhow, like Drake gear, all Elecraft stuff is by definition great, so who are we to argue or cause dissention among the foot soldiers or centurions? Best for the Lunar New Year to all Wyn, VR2AX ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K2/100 (and other) Reviews Needed for eHam
No doubt the ARRL is far from perfect, and the separation between the business side and editorial side of their businesses can be suspect. However, note that even Consumer's Union, which does not accept advertising, has been forced to admit that some of their automotive testing procedures were tilted (no pun intended) to cause SUV rollover by incorrect methodology, if I recall correctly. And, more recently, they had to withdraw comparisons of child restraint seats due to incorrect test protocols. NBC news did not get adequate results in their side impact piece, so they rigged the vehicle to ignite upon collision with some sort of igniter mechanism. Jack David Wilburn wrote: There are some issues with the ARRL reviews also. They seem to be very hesitant about saying anything much negative about rigs from the big boys, but do not hesitate to call a smaller business out on issues. The way they test is not always indicative of real world usage, as highlighted in Tadeusz Raczek's, SP7HT, article The DX Prowess of HF Receivers on the Elecraft website. David Wilburn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack Smith wrote: In addition, a subjective review hits things that the manufacturer's specs can't cover, such as: - Ergonomics of control, menus, etc. - For a kit, how difficult is it to build, how good are the instructions - How is the manufacturer to deal with, should there be a problem - How do the specifications translate into usable features and performance A more thorough review, such as that conducted by the ARRL, can verify the claimed specifications. Those detailed reviews are, unfortunately, difficult for the average ham to conduct, as they require specialized test equipment and fair bit of experience to interpret the results correctly. I also think that a negative review that is a rant without reason is appropriately discounted by the readers, compared with a negative review that cites specific faults or dislikes. In the interest of disclosure, I'm also the seller of a panadapter kit that is purchased about 95% by K2 owners, although it was not originally aimed at that market. I have one review of the Z90 on Eham.com under Third Party Equipment rating it a 5/5. Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com Larry Phipps wrote: I assure you it is! I market a digital wattmeter kit and almost every customer I poll says that eHam.net reviews were either the source of their initial exposure to my kit, or the deciding factor in purchasing. Some visit the site regularly looking for products with a rating of 5.0 or close and a large number of reviews, while some go there to verify performance claims, which may seem hard to believe otherwise in my case. Either way, it's by far my best marketing tool followed by comments on reflectors and word of mouth OTA, at club meetings, etc... all basically someone's opinion. I suspect it's the same with Elecraft. In other words, an impartial third party opinion counts more than a manufacturer's claims. 73, Larry N8LP www.telepostinc.com Wyn Hughes wrote: A little marketing is good and well deserved for the Elecraft line up in general, but I do wonder who with any average intelligence would rely on a purely personal or subjective view. Marketing execs tell us that people do listen to this kind of stuff, but do we? Is this stuff worth powder and shot? Anyhow, like Drake gear, all Elecraft stuff is by definition great, so who are we to argue or cause dissention among the foot soldiers or centurions? Best for the Lunar New Year to all Wyn, VR2AX ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
