Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems
A.K.Forrest wrote: Dear All. operating a K3 with latest beta firmware, using PSK on data modes with MixW. The frequency display on MixW now shows incorrect frequencies for the signals received in data mode. On SSB frequencies displayed appear correct. On data they appear about 3KHz low and on data reverse about 3KHz high. This tested on 20m band. Everything OK before update. Anyone else seeing this behaviour? or is it me that has the problem? I don't normally use MixW any more but I just fired it up to check, and it seems OK to me. With the transceiver set to 14.072.000 MixW is showin exactly that in its frequency display window, and the waterfall is showing a chunk of band centered on 14071, which is correct assuming that the K3 uses LSB in data mode. The K3 was erroneously reporting the data modes as reversed, and this was corrected in the latest firmware release. I suspect that this might have something to do with your problem, but since I can't see the problem myself I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps you used the options in the CAT setup screen to compensate for the previously incorrect frequency offset, and now need to take that settimg out. The CAT correction options are all 0 in my case. - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Firmware-2.10%2C1.81-problems-tp18152247p18153361.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Update
A.K.Forrest wrote: Dear All, did some more on the problem. With MixW using modes RTTY or RTTYR when controlled by a K3 in data mode the frequency scale moves to the right but the signal moves to the left. They should obviously be in step i.e the display should show a signal at a constant frequency as the radio is tuned. This works correctly in USB and LSB. MixW thinks the radio mixer frequency is on the opposite side of the signal to reality. To attempt to solve the problem I reloaded the K3 software; no change. I then went back to the-non beta 2.02 etc software; everything now working correctly. I am pretty sure that this is a real problem but maybe only for MixW users using the RTTY modes. It is a problem for us though, because by using USB or LSB modes in MixW automatically switches the K3 to the same modes. This prevents use of the K3 data mode features such as prevention of compression and other data special settings. Julian (G4ILO) thanks for your interest. All my CAT corrections are zero in MixW also. Interesting that you say there was some change in the last release - K3 was erroneously reporting the data modes as reversed This looks very much like the problem but in the case of RTTY it seems it was correct but is now incorrect. Hope this all gets sorted in version 2.11 Keep up the good work on the software and I agree with the release of beta software so that we can test all the nooks and crannies. 73 Andrew M1KAZ I think this is a problem with MixW, not the K3 firmware, which may have inadvertently been correct due to the K3's reversal of its mode reporting. In my version of MixW the radio type is set to Elecraft K2. There is no K3 option. The K2 option was a derivative of the Kenwood option, in fact it is listed under Kenwood on the CAT selection dialog. I was one of the first K2 owners to use MixW, many years ago. Unfortunately my memory now is not very good, but I seem to recall that I originally had the exact same problem as you with the K2 and MixW. I think that the K2 used opposite sidebands to the Kenwood radios (and probably to the K3 as well.) I emailed Nick, the developer of MixW, about it, and he fixed it in the next release. So if my supposition is correct, the K2 option in MixW works right for the K2, but not for the K3. I think MixW needs to be corrected to work with the current K3 firmware, which is now correctly reporting the data modes in software to correspond with what is shown on the front panel. In the meantime, you might find that switching to the TS-2000 option solves the problem. I very much doubt if MixW uses any commands that are exclusive to the Elecraft radios, so this is almost certain to be OK. - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Firmware-2.10%2C1.81-problems-Update-tp18154703p18155195.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Update
No, the TS-2000 option doesn't work either. I have a feeling that the issue with the K2 that I referred to affected only certain bands, where the K2 switched the sideband used by default. It only became apparent to me because I used a macro to bring a selected signal to the center of the passband and on some bands the signal moved the wrong way. I can't find an option that works right with the K3 at the moment. However, the K3 is now correctly reporting the data modes as mode 6 = normal and mode 9 = reversed, as defined in the reference manual. Previously it had them reversed. I think that rather than redefine the mode values so that they are the opposite of the K2, MixW needs to be updated. I expect that Simon has already updated HRD to take account of the change, as he was told about it a couple of weeks ago. - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Firmware-2.10%2C1.81-problems-Update-tp18154703p18155536.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems
I suspect this is an issue of MixW not correctly interpreting the information received from the K3. When in Data modes, the frequency reported by the K3 will vary depending on which data sub mode is in use. Data Default sub-mode sideband Reported frequency FSK D LSB RTTY MARK AFSK A LSB RTTY MARK DATA A USB USB/LSB CARRIER frequency PSK D USB RF frequency (carrier +/- 1 KHz) MixW assumes data modes from the K2 are LSB (there is no separate K3 driver). The firmware error prior to the new beta caused MixW to get the sideband right for Data A by chance. Mix W's K2 setting assumes that the CAT data represents VFO frequency (or carrier) instead of 'MARK' as the K3 reports. If you use FSK D and AFSK A with a standard 2125 Hz Mark, set the Digi Cat correction to -2125. If you are using FSK D, set FSK center fq to 2210 [(2125 + 2295)/2] ... if you are using AFSK A, check AFSK in place of FSK With Data A, Im afraid that the author of MixW will need to create a new K3 driver that assumes USB operation in data modes. Ideally, before then Wayne will have time to implement separate mode get/set commands (on the list) for the digital submodes (FSK D: MD6;/MD9;, AFSK A: MD8;/MDC;, and DATA A: MDA;/MDD;) so MixW (and other digital software) can tell which mode is being used from the IF; response. Then when the authors of MixW (and other software) do K3 specific support they will be able to properly need to do a K3 setting to reflect carrier vs. RF and sideband for each of the digital sub-modes. 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Forrest Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 6:31 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Dear All. operating a K3 with latest beta firmware, using PSK on data modes with MixW. The frequency display on MixW now shows incorrect frequencies for the signals received in data mode. On SSB frequencies displayed appear correct. On data they appear about 3KHz low and on data reverse about 3KHz high. This tested on 20m band. Everything OK before update. Anyone else seeing this behaviour? or is it me that has the problem? thanks 73 Andrew M1KAZ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Update
As Julian suggested the problem is in MixW. It has been 40 years since I had the RTTY training course in the NAVY, but, it has to do with the convoluted history of RTTY. Although SSB is on the LSB on the HF bands below 30 Meters and USB on those bands above 30 meters (Many reasons given for this most of which are not correct) RTTY was based upon the frequency of Mark (2125) and Space (2295) and the surplus military equipment available, unless you could afford some of the high dollar HAL equipment (which was also used by the military). Military protocol was to have the Mark the lowest tone in frequency. This was ok with most equipment made BPC (Before Personnel Computers). The PC brought out the conversion of telephone modems, use of the modem IC’s and finally the PC sound card for generating these tones. If you built a TNC out of a modem chip and did not include a reverse switch you were stuck to either the low or high bands. This was fixed on the PC with a button to reverse the signal that you could click on and copying. Some of the Rigs treat RTTY as SSB, others put RTTY so that the Mark is always the lowest frequency transmitted regardless of the band selected, and RTTYR reverses this. I have no idea what the protocol is for DATA (perhaps Elecraft can tell us.) As an experiment, try switching rigs in MixW and observe what is happening to the signal frequency. You wil not be able to chang frequency with MixW but you can see what happens to the signal as you turn the dial on the RIG. Rich, KE0X -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Firmware-2.10%2C1.81-problems-Update-tp18154703p18163577.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Update
RTTY was based upon the frequency of Mark (2125) and Space (2295) and the surplus military equipment available, unless you could afford some of the high dollar HAL equipment (which was also used by the military). No, RTTY is always Shift low - that is Mark is the HIGHER RF frequency and space is the LOWER RF frequency. When the audio tones 2215 and 2295 are applied to a LSB transmitter in AFSK this results in the correct shift. I have no idea what the protocol is for DATA (perhaps Elecraft can tell us.) As an experiment, try switching rigs in MixW and observe what is happening to the signal frequency. FSK D and AFSK A receive in LSB while PSK D and DATA A receive in USB for compatibility with the (backward) convention of most non- RTTY software writers (PSK32, MFSK, etc.). 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich (KE0X) Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 4:49 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Update As Julian suggested the problem is in MixW. It has been 40 years since I had the RTTY training course in the NAVY, but, it has to do with the convoluted history of RTTY. Although SSB is on the LSB on the HF bands below 30 Meters and USB on those bands above 30 meters (Many reasons given for this most of which are not correct) RTTY was based upon the frequency of Mark (2125) and Space (2295) and the surplus military equipment available, unless you could afford some of the high dollar HAL equipment (which was also used by the military). Military protocol was to have the Mark the lowest tone in frequency. This was ok with most equipment made BPC (Before Personnel Computers). The PC brought out the conversion of telephone modems, use of the modem IC’s and finally the PC sound card for generating these tones. If you built a TNC out of a modem chip and did not include a reverse switch you were stuck to either the low or high bands. This was fixed on the PC with a button to reverse the signal that you could click on and copying. Some of the Rigs treat RTTY as SSB, others put RTTY so that the Mark is always the lowest frequency transmitted regardless of the band selected, and RTTYR reverses this. I have no idea what the protocol is for DATA (perhaps Elecraft can tell us.) As an experiment, try switching rigs in MixW and observe what is happening to the signal frequency. You wil not be able to chang frequency with MixW but you can see what happens to the signal as you turn the dial on the RIG. Rich, KE0X -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Firmware-2.10%2C1.81-problems-Update- tp18154703p18163577.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Update
Those of us who have been around RTTY before the days of electronic printers remember the second meaning of LSMFT - low space means fine teletype. (refers to the RF frequency, not the demodulated audio of course.) Jack K8ZOA www.cliftonlaboratories.com Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: RTTY was based upon the frequency of Mark (2125) and Space (2295) and the surplus military equipment available, unless you could afford some of the high dollar HAL equipment (which was also used by the military). No, RTTY is always Shift low - that is Mark is the HIGHER RF frequency and space is the LOWER RF frequency. When the audio tones 2215 and 2295 are applied to a LSB transmitter in AFSK this results in the correct shift. I have no idea what the protocol is for DATA (perhaps Elecraft can tell us.) As an experiment, try switching rigs in MixW and observe what is happening to the signal frequency. FSK D and AFSK A receive in LSB while PSK D and DATA A receive in USB for compatibility with the (backward) convention of most non- RTTY software writers (PSK32, MFSK, etc.). 73, ... Joe, W4TV -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich (KE0X) Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 4:49 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Update As Julian suggested the problem is in MixW. It has been 40 years since I had the RTTY training course in the NAVY, but, it has to do with the convoluted history of RTTY. Although SSB is on the LSB on the HF bands below 30 Meters and USB on those bands above 30 meters (Many reasons given for this most of which are not correct) RTTY was based upon the frequency of Mark (2125) and Space (2295) and the surplus military equipment available, unless you could afford some of the high dollar HAL equipment (which was also used by the military). Military protocol was to have the Mark the lowest tone in frequency. This was ok with most equipment made BPC (Before Personnel Computers). The PC brought out the conversion of telephone modems, use of the modem IC’s and finally the PC sound card for generating these tones. If you built a TNC out of a modem chip and did not include a reverse switch you were stuck to either the low or high bands. This was fixed on the PC with a button to reverse the signal that you could click on and copying. Some of the Rigs treat RTTY as SSB, others put RTTY so that the Mark is always the lowest frequency transmitted regardless of the band selected, and RTTYR reverses this. I have no idea what the protocol is for DATA (perhaps Elecraft can tell us.) As an experiment, try switching rigs in MixW and observe what is happening to the signal frequency. You wil not be able to chang frequency with MixW but you can see what happens to the signal as you turn the dial on the RIG. Rich, KE0X -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Firmware-2.10%2C1.81-problems-Update- tp18154703p18163577.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Firmware 2.10,1.81 problems Update
Joe Subich, W4TV-3 wrote: FSK D and AFSK A receive in LSB while PSK D and DATA A receive in USB for compatibility with the (backward) convention of most non- RTTY software writers (PSK32, MFSK, etc.). ... which makes it difficult for any program to know what to do since at the moment it is (almost) impossible for a program to tell which of these data mode options have been selected on the radio. - Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com KComm for K2/K3: www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Firmware-2.10%2C1.81-problems-Update-tp18154703p18165414.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
