RE: [Elecraft] K3 Headphone jack/front panel gap
Ron: Glad this is getting attention. After reading your email I removed the front panel and disassembled it enough to check those items. The lockwashers that you mentioned were properly in place, though it seems that if they weren't the headphone washer would be tighter, not looser. The mic connector is not an issue at all as there is actually quite a bit of clearance around it in my front panel (perhaps a recent design tweak?). I used the squeeze it together and tighten approach to snug things down and the washer is no longer loose. There is however, a barely perceptable inward bowing of the front panel now. It is very minor and much less annoying than the rattling washer, so I buttoned it back up that way. I've reported this to support at Elecraft. 73 and have fun! Rick AI1V K3 SN728 Hi Windy: I'm working on the assembly procedures, monitoring e-mails and talking with Gary and the techs in Aptos who are working on returned gear and building K3s to see where I need to provide more or better information in the manuals. I'm in Oregon and cannot see for myself the returned gear or the assembly of the new rigs. ... Given that those standoffs between the front panel board and the front panel sheet metal are installed correctly, Aptos has found tightening the PHONES jack knurled nut a bit more (squeezing the boards and front panel sheet metal between thumb and fingers while turning the knurled nut) has always cured the problem. Since I mentioned that, several builders wrote me personally to report that worked for them too. If that doesn't work for you, post a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gary will pick it up there and pursue the fix for you and we'll find out what is happening to cause the problem for others. ... Ron AC7AC -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Headphone-jack-front-panel-gap-tp16963375p16993320.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Headphone jack/front panel gap
That's a good suggestion Chuck. I'm going to look and see if I have one of those. I was wondering what I was going to use for a shim. Stan W5EWA Houston, TX -- From: AE4CW [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:33 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Headphone jack/front panel gap Windy Dankoff KM5Q wrote: Ron, If I can find some fix for the loose PHONES jack, I'll be happy to leave the encoder shaft as it is, unless you suggest I tighten it a bit more (trusting my good judgement) but now that I recall from the photo how slim the lock washers are, I'm more inclined to leave well enough alone. Thanks! Windy___ Windy, as I recall, the gap between the headphone jack washer and front panel was about 0.017. If you just want to close the gap and get rid of the rattle, you might try what I did: a trim washer from a spare 1/4 jack was 0.018 and added just the right amount of spacer to eliminate the rattle and fit the front panel w/o any discernible flex +/-. - Chuck, AE4CW -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/K3-Headphone-jack-front-panel-gap-tp16963375p16984015.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Headphone jack/front panel gap
Hi Windy: I'm working on the assembly procedures, monitoring e-mails and talking with Gary and the techs in Aptos who are working on returned gear and building K3s to see where I need to provide more or better information in the manuals. I'm in Oregon and cannot see for myself the returned gear or the assembly of the new rigs. What I've related about tightening the nuts is what the techs in Aptos said they have done successfully on the units they've built or fixed. They are the ones who told me that a common mistake builders make is to leave off the split lock washers that go between the standoff and the front panel board. Apparently a number of builders have put them under the screw heads where one would normally put lock washers, not realizing they are used as spacers to make the standoffs a bit longer, not lock washers. Note I'm speaking about the standoffs between the front panel board and the front panel sheet metal, not the standoffs between the front panel and DSP boards (the correct spacing there becomes critical if you install the KRX3 subreceiver when they become available). If the spacer-washers are missing, that should not cause the VFO A encoder shaft to be canted but it will cause the PHONES jack washer to rattle. That apparently is **not** the only reason the PHONES jack washer is loose on some K3s, but it is **one** reason for it happening. That's a dangerous situation because the screws holding the LCD cover can then hit the LCD front glass itself, breaking it. Given that those standoffs between the front panel board and the front panel sheet metal are installed correctly, Aptos has found tightening the PHONES jack knurled nut a bit more (squeezing the boards and front panel sheet metal between thumb and fingers while turning the knurled nut) has always cured the problem. Since I mentioned that, several builders wrote me personally to report that worked for them too. If that doesn't work for you, post a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gary will pick it up there and pursue the fix for you and we'll find out what is happening to cause the problem for others. The canted VFO A shaft has, again according to Aptos, always yielded to adequate tightening of the nut on the encoder. Again, if that doesn't do it, please send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oh the three front panel assemblies I've worked with, tightening the VFO A encoder using nominal pressure with a wrench produced a well-aligned encoder shaft. So what's nominal pressure? That's the problem. I have a socket wrench and used it without a handle, just giving it a very firm twist holding the socket in my hand. Perhaps more torque is needed for others. As Gary, the techs in Aptos (and occasionally myself) come up with a better understanding of the problem, we share the information and suggested fixes with Wayne, as the Elecraft Chief of Technology and other sundry activities, for final approval or course of action. So be sure you've informed [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include any fixes you've used or tried. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Windy Dankoff KM5Q wrote: Ron, If I can find some fix for the loose PHONES jack, I'll be happy to leave the encoder shaft as it is, unless you suggest I tighten it a bit more (trusting my good judgement) but now that I recall from the photo how slim the lock washers are, I'm more inclined to leave well enough alone. Thanks! Windy___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Headphone jack/front panel gap
I've only received sporadic reports of this happening, and *nothing* after suggesting checking the fit of the mic connector, which led me to believe the problem was fixed as suggested. I appreciate those who are taking the time to say otherwise! I did a little research today with people building K3s in Aptos and handling some that were returned for various reasons. As Terry noted, it's possible there is a variation in the thickness of the washers supplied that is getting past the folks doing receiving inspection. So far, while building K3s, they have yet to encounter a single unit that didn't fit correctly. However, they are seeing several things that might cause the problem. Among the returns they have noticed several that did not have the split ring lock washer between the standoff and the pc board as shown in Figure 34 of the assembly manual. Instead the builder put the washer under the head of the screw because thats where one might expect to put a lock washer, but that is *not* where it goes. In this case it is part of the total spacer provided by the standoff and must go between the standoff and the pc board. That mistake actually helps the PHONES washer fit more tightly by moving everything forward toward the sheet metal, but can result in a skewed VFO A shaft since the connector 'bottoms out' in the jack on the front panel PC board before it sits squarely behind the front panel. Adding the nut inside the front panel will move the VFO A encoder back and solve that problem, but it can cause fit issues in the future as you add options. Another problem that mistake causes are occasional broken LCD glass because the display is moved forward with the front panel board where the screws holding the LCD cover can strike it. So far, they have found they can fix loose PHONES jack washers and crooked VFO A encoders by tightening the nuts sufficiently. As one builder mentioned, the knurled nut defies too much tightening with a tool unless one risks scratching the front panel. What the folks in Aptos have done is to squeeze the front panel sheet metal back against the PC boards in one hand, pressing *between* the jack and the red and yellow LEDs just above it (but not ON the LEDs) with a thumb while supporting the PC boards with their fingers from behind. That flexes the sheet metal just slightly but enough to allow them to tighten the PHONES knurled nut with the fingers of the other hand to trap the washer securely. So far, that has cured all the loose washers they have encountered assembling rigs. They also reported getting a few K3s back with complaints about a crooked VFO A encoder that was fixed simply by tightening the nut against the front panel. It was finger tight, but not tight enough. A little extra leverage on the nut straightened up the shaft. Of course, both of those fixes can cause serious damage if the front panel is not properly spaced from the front panel board using the 5/16 standoffs and split lock washers as shown in the manual. An obvious question is how tight is too tight so that it might break something. I have assembled two front panels, and both times nominal pressure with pliers (or a socket wrench held in my hand - no handle attached) was plenty. But two is a tiny sample. It would be good to hear from those who have the loose Phones washer and crooked VFO A encoder problems and whether any of the above helped, should you be inclined to take another look. Feel free to drop me a note if you're experiencing these problems and let me know if the above help. Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terry Schieler Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:37 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Headphone jack/front panel gap Chuck, AE4CW, posted: Ron, I too had the headphone jack problem. After talking with tech support I reveisited the assembly and am certain it's perfect, but there is still a gap between the shoulder of the headphone jack and the front panel. I measured it with a shim guage but, unfortunately have forgotten the number. In any case I found a thin washer (from another 1/4 jack) that filled the gap perfectly and intalled it over the jack threads behind the panel. Perhaps there was as parts variation from the vendor that could account for the gap. Chuck et al I had the exact same issue with the headphone jack and the thick washer used to space it from the front panel. Everything has been checked and double checked and the thick spacing washer still rattles between the board mounted headphone jack and the front panel. I posted my concern here months ago and received responses like Chuck did above. On the other hand, I received half a dozen direct emails from other K3 owners who experienced the loose spacing washer. All seemed to feel that their fitting of the front panel was correct in every other area. I think it's an issue other than a poorly fitted front
RE: [Elecraft] K3 Headphone jack/front panel gap
Ron, Thank you for the detailed reply. I have shortened your response below, and inserted my comments. Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:28:14 -0700 I've only received sporadic reports of this happening, and *nothing* after suggesting checking the fit of the mic connector, which led me to believe the problem was fixed as suggested My mic connector does clear the hole, as in Fig. 37. ... Among the returns they have noticed several that did not have the split ring lock washer between the standoff and the pc board as shown in Figure 34 of the assembly manual. Instead the builder put the washer under the head of the screw because that’s where one might expect to put a lock washer, but that is *not* where it goes. ... I'm certain I did it as described. In this case it is part of the total spacer provided by the standoff and must go between the standoff and the pc board. That mistake actually helps the PHONES washer fit more tightly by moving everything forward toward the sheet metal, but can result in a skewed VFO A shaft since the connector 'bottoms out' in the jack on the front panel PC board before it sits squarely behind the front panel. In that case, I suppose I would have seen the threaded shaft draw outward as I snugged the nut. I used a box-end wrench and watched, and didn't see that happening. I think the toothed lockwasher on the inside crushed more on one side. Since I had 6 wrench leverage, I followed temptation and made it pretty tight, maybe more than intended? - but not extreme. I do have some finesse. I suppose I could try tightening it more, to see if it straightens out. Adding the nut inside the front panel will move the VFO A encoder back and solve that problem, but it can cause fit issues in the future as you add options. Another problem that mistake causes are occasional broken LCD glass because the display is moved forward with the front panel board where the screws holding the LCD cover can strike it. So far, they have found they can fix loose PHONES jack washers and crooked VFO A encoders by tightening the nuts sufficiently. As one builder mentioned, the knurled nut defies too much tightening with a tool unless one risks scratching the front panel. What the folks in Aptos have done is to squeeze the front panel sheet metal back against the PC boards in one hand, pressing *between* the jack and the red and yellow LEDs just above it (but not ON the LEDs) with a thumb while supporting the PC boards with their fingers from behind. That flexes the sheet metal just slightly but enough to allow them to tighten the PHONES knurled nut with the fingers of the other hand to trap the washer securely. So far, that has cured all the loose washers they have encountered assembling rigs. That's what I did when I assembled it, since I didn't think just finger-tight would do. I got it tighter that way, but still, it loosened as soon as I plugged headphones in a couple times. They also reported getting a few K3s back with complaints about a crooked VFO A encoder that was fixed simply by tightening the nut against the front panel. It was finger tight, but not tight enough. A little extra leverage on the nut straightened up the shaft. See above. Mine IS pretty tight. Of course, both of those fixes can cause serious damage if the front panel is not properly spaced from the front panel board using the 5/16 standoffs and split lock washers as shown in the manual. I guess I'm safe there. An obvious question is how tight is too tight so that it might break something. I have assembled two front panels, and both times nominal pressure with pliers (or a socket wrench held in my hand - no handle attached) was plenty. But two is a tiny sample. It would be good to hear from those who have the loose Phones washer and crooked VFO A encoder problems and whether any of the above helped, should you be inclined to take another look. Feel free to drop me a note if you're experiencing these problems and let me know if the above help. Ron If I can find some fix for the loose PHONES jack, I'll be happy to leave the encoder shaft as it is, unless you suggest I tighten it a bit more (trusting my good judgement) but now that I recall from the photo how slim the lock washers are, I'm more inclined to leave well enough alone. Thanks! Windy___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
