Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
Your points are well taken. I had rather expected the second announcement, after the first. I guess I'm very English, a bit disappointed that I don't yet have the K3, but hanging on, perhaps not quite desperate yet, but quiet - yes! I do understand about not getting a mail out - I am sometimes in the same position, trying to get something done before I have to go away or meet a deadline and One thing drives out another, the end result being I forget to send one. Eric has said they will provide more regular f/b - I hope that will suffice. On 31/8/07 12:59, Steve Sacco NN4X [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: I was watching a special about Pink Floyd last evening, and reference was made to the line Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way, and I thought of that as soon as I read your post. :-) [snip] -- When one door closes another door opens; but we so often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door, that we do not see the ones which open for us. -Alexander Graham Bell, inventor (1847-1922) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
I sold the 756 pro when the K3 was announced, and ordered one right away. I suspect many others sold their rig, or one of their better rigs to pay for the K3. I think some even sold their K2 to get a K3! I also thought the communication was very light, but put it down to the small company bringing out a new and complex product. Maybe they should have said nothing about the K3 till it was ready to ship, and perhaps they were doing the people here a favor in offering it, as I don't think they put ads in QST and so on to the general public. The shipping date was always listed as a TARGET date... Being a small company, they get a boost from the deposits, in exchange for the early shipping, that's fair. I don't look at the deposit as a contract, but more like helping them get the product out quicker than they might otherwise, and to help them out in general, because they seem like real nice people who make real nice stuff. With people working 7 days a week and jetting around the US and the world, it don't sound like they are goofing off. I can imagine the amount of communications they must be dealing with, vendors, assemblers, beta testers, friends, etc, and guess I would rather they get on with it and maybe have some sort of life, before they spend lots of time updating the web page and posting stuff here. Maybe some forget that Elecraft is a SMALL bunch of hams and not a big corporation? It is only going to take 1 missing or wrong (or sub standard) part from any vendor to delay the current ship date. I notice how hard it has been for Elecraft to get the same parts for the K2 runs, available parts change faster than the manual can be updated. Cap values change, inductor sizes and colors change, etc. I ordered a K3 kit, and being the type of person I am, would like it if Elecraft sent the parts to me as they became available, so I could start playing with them, but that is a bit silly! I say damn the impatient people, they should have fun and take the time to enjoy what they are doing, its going to do nobody any good if they ruin their health... Brett N2DTS Let's turn the question around: How many people who have put down a deposit have done so if they knew that they radios would be shipped at least two months later than they originally thought? Maybe some, maybe most, but I'm fairly certain, not all. It's very important to understand the distinction in what I'm saying: I'm NOT advocating an accelerated, anything-less-than-100%-thorough testing and development schedule. I AM insisting on open and timely communications with their customers/bankers. It seems the least that Elecraft can do. Regards, and 73, Steve NN4X Saint Cloud, Florida, USA ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
Hallo, How many people who have put down a deposit have done so if they knew that they radios would be shipped at least two months later than they originally thought? If one, two or three months, I am not in the least surprised by the delays. I can not remember a single major product from Elecraft which did not experience delays, and with a really major product like the K3 delays were to be expected. In full knowledge of this I ordered a K3 with various goodies and prepaid - not 50% but almost 100% (exchange rate was good at the time). I am fairly happy with the information flow from the BTs and Aptos, even if there could have been more. But then again, can there ever be enough? However to suggest that Wayne and/or Eric have been disrespectful to us, strikes me, personally, as unfair. vy 73 de toby ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
From the size of your reply, Steve, I presume you are attempting to win the argument the American way. :) I can't disagree with the points you raise. I just think that it is unreasonable to treat Elecraft the same way you would a faceless corporation or utility company. It is a a small company run by fellow hobbyists, other guys like us, who are not in it primarily for the money (since I am sure with their skills they could make far more making products for the commercial sector.) It's not as if anyone reading this reflector could exactly have been surprised, reading between the lines of what has been posted, that there was going to be another delay. So I agree with David: what difference would it make if the delay was made two weeks ago (when fewer of the variables contributing to it would have been known) or at the last minute? It's a sad fact of life that so many people feel once they pay money for something they have the right to immediately complain if things don't happen the way they hoped. (Actually, it happens even if they get something free, as in software, one reason I gave up developing my ham radio programs, but that's another matter.) -- Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ??? G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com On 8/31/07, Steve Sacco NN4X [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David - I was watching a special about Pink Floyd last evening, and reference was made to the line Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way, and I thought of that as soon as I read your post. :-) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
Julian G4ILO wrote: From the size of your reply, Steve, I presume you are attempting to win the argument the American way. :) Sure glad you suffixed your Anti-American sentiment with the :) I can't disagree with the points you raise. I just think that it is unreasonable to treat Elecraft the same way you would a faceless corporation or utility company. It is still a business, and should follow good business practices. It is a a small company run by fellow hobbyists, other guys like us, who are not in it primarily for the money (since I am sure with their skills they could make far more making products for the commercial sector.) On what to you base the not for the money? I am sure if there was not a profit motive, the company would never have been founded. It's not as if anyone reading this reflector could exactly have been surprised, reading between the lines of what has been posted, that there was going to be another delay. So I agree with David: what difference would it make if the delay was made two weeks ago (when fewer of the variables contributing to it would have been known) or at the last minute? Because those who have paid a deposit should be KEPT INFORMED. I thought that was one of the purposes of this reflector It's a sad fact of life that so many people feel once they pay money for something they have the right to immediately complain if things don't happen the way they hoped. (Actually, it happens even if they get something free, as in software, one reason I gave up developing my ham radio programs, but that's another matter.) Yep, if you pay money for something, you expect to get what you paid for. (Maybe that is just a American outlook?) This is a moot point since Wayne and Eric did, finally, answer the questions on the delay, and appear to have instituted a policy of better communication. -- John - W2AGN ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
On 8/31/07, W2AGN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure glad you suffixed your Anti-American sentiment with the :) It was a legitimate response to Steve's dig at the English way. It is still a business, and should follow good business practices. And I believe it does. But few businesses are perfect, especially when they are small ones with not enough personnel to deal with spikes in the workload. On what to you base the not for the money? I am sure if there was not a profit motive, the company would never have been founded. I didn't say there wasn't a profit motive. I was suggesting they could make a lot more making other stuff. Because those who have paid a deposit should be KEPT INFORMED. I thought that was one of the purposes of this reflector And, short of specific day by day updates to the shipping dates, we have been kept informed. Yep, if you pay money for something, you expect to get what you paid for. (Maybe that is just a American outlook?) I do expect to get what I paid for. But no contract was offered or entered into regarding a shipping date. The only dates that have been mentioned were target dates. And targets, as I thought everyone knew, can be missed. If you're so dissatisfied with this, why don't you just ask for your deposit back? -- Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ??? G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Julian G4ILO wrote: If you're so dissatisfied with this, why don't you just ask for your deposit back? Even betterhe could trade his place in line with someone who could reimburse him for his depositas there seem to be many folks who not only understand and accept the delays, but want their K3 sooner than later. 73 k3hrn Thom,EIEIO Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer www.baltimorehon.com/Home of the Baltimore Lexicon www.tlchost.net/hosting/ Web Hosting as low as 3.49/month ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
Thom LaCosta wrote: On Fri, 31 Aug 2007, Julian G4ILO wrote: If you're so dissatisfied with this, why don't you just ask for your deposit back? Even betterhe could trade his place in line with someone who could reimburse him for his depositas there seem to be many folks who not only understand and accept the delays, but want their K3 sooner than later. 73 k3hrn Thom,EIEIO Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer You know, I would think that people that passed a Ham Radio exam would be able to read! At NO time did I complain about the delays, but I did complain about the lack of communication about the delays. As Julian chose to omit from his pithy comments, I did note that it appears Wayne and Eric have solved that problem. -- John - W2AGN ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
CQ CQ CQ Can we all relax a bit and stop bickering about the delays, the lack of communications about them and whether it's a Brit of Yank thing to 'claim one's right' ? Elecraft have acknowledged that they should have more (and better) communications to their customers, and they have indeed sent out a fair explanation of the goings-on. Thanks y'all, de Fred PA4YBR/KA4YBR PSE SK ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
Toby - I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Regards 73, Steve At 09:03 AM 8/31/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, How many people who have put down a deposit have done so if they knew that they radios would be shipped at least two months later than they originally thought? If one, two or three months, I am not in the least surprised by the delays. I can not remember a single major product from Elecraft which did not experience delays, and with a really major product like the K3 delays were to be expected. In full knowledge of this I ordered a K3 with various goodies and prepaid - not 50% but almost 100% (exchange rate was good at the time). I am fairly happy with the information flow from the BTs and Aptos, even if there could have been more. But then again, can there ever be enough? However to suggest that Wayne and/or Eric have been disrespectful to us, strikes me, personally, as unfair. vy 73 de toby _._. _ _.._ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
the lack of communication about the delays. As Julian chose to omit from his pithy comments, I did note that it appears Wayne and Eric have solved that problem. So why prolong the thread by going on about it? -- Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ??? G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
I apologize again for any lack in prompt communications of our K3 shipping status. We get over optimistic at times, and to be honest, some of the problems with suppliers cropped up just during the past week, while I was in Japan. Yes, we're a relatively small Ham Radio company, and we are fielding a flood of inquiries and orders on the K3. I receive a large number of personal K3 emails with very detailed questions every day that I can not directly answer. (We try to answer all the questions in our K3FAQ and via postings here.) Just to give you a feel for the email load here, I spend the first three hours of -every- morning at the keyboard corresponding with vendors, our engineers, manufacturing team, field testers, sales group, magazines, customers etc. Email is a fantastic time saver, but the load is still quite high. Between my three computers (Office, Home, laptop) and Treo Phone/pda, I'm never far from email and phone calls. Life certainly isn't boring in Aptos! (My wife keeps reminding me of this..) By the way, we've hired a number if new employees in engineering, manufacturing and admin to handle the increased business. We've got a great team, and we're working hard to get a quality K3 into your hands as quickly as possible. There certainly is the risk of additional delays, primarily from missing parts and vendor delays, but we are working hard to eliminate these as they crop up. (Our vendors have now learned that we work weekends too..) As I mentioned in my status email, we will be posting weekly updates, on every Wednesday, until we ship. Hopefully that will keep everyone fully informed. Stay tuned! 73, Eric WA6HHQ -- P.S. Wearing my list moderator hat - Let's keep the discussion civil and please no snide remarks at one another. Of course feel free to post any concerns about Elecraft. It is OK to be critical of us (we actually want to hear this). That's the only way we can find out about many problems and correct them. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: I apologize again for any lack in prompt communications of our K3 shipping status. We get over optimistic at times, and to be honest, some of the problems with suppliers cropped up just during the past week, while I was in Japan. Throughout this somewhat long [and a bit repetitive] thread, one question keeps popping into my head: When was the last time your questions on the Yaesu, Icom, or Kenwood email lists were personally answered by one of the top two guys in the Company who actually designed the radio? of course begging a second question: Do they even HAVE an email list for support like this one? My K3 will be in Prod Run #3 or later, I haven't figured out how I want it configured yet, the choices are somewhat daunting. *Off-list* advice and dialog over options welcome. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my K2 and KX1 while summer still hangs around. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference?
Absolutely right Fred. I've worked in the computer IT business for a long time and now in the fire service (which is like waiting for molasses to run to get anything done IT or otherwise). I find the access to the Elecraft premium players on this list plenty of communication in regards to the K3. I'm in the second run and could care less if it is a month, or more, late in shipping after their initial prediction of mid-September when I order mine in May. I viewed the date then as a target date and knew that it may not be feasible with the multiple vendors involved. I thought the communication has been fine to date, and wouldn't expect anything more. After meeting these folks first hand, I can tell you that all of you that ordered a K3 will get the best rig for your money. And that waiting until the small vendor problems are worked out and running in a smooth pattern, means that you will receive exactly what was promised. These people are a small organization devoted to ham radio (yes, they are a business to make profit - who would take on this engineering effort for less) but they have designed this thing based on what you - true ham operators wanted. Why not let them add features suggested by FT's and add firmware suggestions while waiting for the vendor issues to level out. I'm just as geeked to get my K3, but I have no problem waiting until they think it is ready to ship. And to quell the communication issues on the list, I believe they have communicated as well as can be expected. Just take a look at any other radio company or any other industry related company, the access you have here is unheard of, and based on the number of very hard working people in Aptos, you are receiving the best communication (and product) for your buck. IMHO, no apology necessary Eric (or Wayne, or Lyle, or ...) Sorry, I just couldn't help the small rant. Dave W8FGU -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:elecraft- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 6:31 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] M0XDF: Re: What difference? Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: I apologize again for any lack in prompt communications of our K3 shipping status. We get over optimistic at times, and to be honest, some of the problems with suppliers cropped up just during the past week, while I was in Japan. Throughout this somewhat long [and a bit repetitive] thread, one question keeps popping into my head: When was the last time your questions on the Yaesu, Icom, or Kenwood email lists were personally answered by one of the top two guys in the Company who actually designed the radio? of course begging a second question: Do they even HAVE an email list for support like this one? My K3 will be in Prod Run #3 or later, I haven't figured out how I want it configured yet, the choices are somewhat daunting. *Off-list* advice and dialog over options welcome. In the meantime, I'll enjoy my K2 and KX1 while summer still hangs around. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
