Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
And has anyone noticed that the front panel indicators on the Alpha amp shown in the recent ads seem to show 1500 watts out, with pretty close to 2500 volts and 0.6 amps on the meters. WOW! !500 watts RF out for 1500 watts DC in. 100% efficiency!! There's a good mark for Wayne and Eric to shoot at. Maybe the key isn't the only place you can find a fruitcake! Ain't Photoshop cool? - Jim, KL7CC Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Did anyone else notice the Alpha ad in QST over Christmas showed a fruitcake on the key instead of a brick? Leigh/WA5ZNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
I think that those of us who are not involved in MARS need an education about what you guys are doing. When I was in Army MARS about 35 years ago, we had no real traffic to handle at all. All we did was training. This was to be prepared - in case. I would think that the need for MARS (sadly) has not increased but rather diminished further due to increased 'normal' communication methods - Internet, cell phones, et al. Soldiers call home via Skype routinely from the battlefield - there's not a whole lot of reason for phone patches any more. Am I wrong? 73, Bob W5OV Ex- AAR2BQ -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tim Tucker Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:52 PM To: Bruce Beford Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs The amount of power required is a function of propagation and intended recipient. I can't say in advance of an *event*, how much power will be required. If 100 watts isn't cutting it on the first delivery attempt (it usually does), I'm not fooling around with 250 watts...I'm going straight to 500 if that's how much power I have available. There is no use the minimum amount of power requred... rules here. Rather, we use the tools we have available and methods within our SOP to get the message handled efficiently and accurately. MARS isn't a trial and error service. The real question is whether or not the 10 minute duty cycle is a function of heat or is it a timer / firmware controlled function? The first circumstance can be managed, however if duty cycle is controlled by the latter then it doesn't seem viable to the MARS service to me. Any insight into this question? Tim On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Bruce Beford bruce.bef...@myfairpoint.netwrote: I'm a licensed Navy MARS operator. It is not uncommon to have very long digital messages that need to be sent using digital modes that will take longer than 10 minutes to send. This limitation pretty much eliminates this amplifier from being able to be used in my shack for MARS purposes. Now with that said, we don't often need to use an amplifier to send digitally, but in the event I did, I couldn't do it with this amp if there is a 10 minute duty cycle. Tim AE6LX Turn.the.drive.down. You don't need to drive the amp to the full 500W output for your 10+ minute message. Perhaps 200-250W will do? -Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
The difference being that, with enough determination, the brick is edible.. 73 Mike NF4L On 3/16/2011 12:47 AM, Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU wrote: Did anyone else notice the Alpha ad in QST over Christmas showed a fruitcake on the key instead of a brick? Leigh/WA5ZNU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
On 16/03/2011 05:26, Gary Gregory wrote: *We have lots of fruitcakes in VK - some have an amateur license !!! But not many have KPA500's yet ;-) -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
Hey, take it easy on my favorite flavor of biscuit 73, Guy. On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Brendan Minish ei6iz.bren...@gmail.comwrote: On 16/03/2011 05:26, Gary Gregory wrote: *We have lots of fruitcakes in VK - some have an amateur license !!! But not many have KPA500's yet ;-) -- 73 Brendan EI6IZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
Yep, that works!! Thanks Pete, W1RM -Original Message- From: Bruce Beford [mailto:bruce.bef...@myfairpoint.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:13 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs Copy and paste onto one line in your browser: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=ExhibitsR equestTimeout=500calledFromFrame=Napplication_id=290417fcc_id='UTR-KPA500 ' Or, Go here: https://apps.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm Enter Elecraft for Applicant Name and click Start Search at the bottom of the page. On the next page, click on Detail under Display exhibits. Enjoy, Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
I'm not loving this part too much Duty Cycle at 500 Watts 10 minutes key down / 5 minutes off' __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
*Why? I cannot think of a way I operate that would exceed a 10 minute transmission. Other than a 'Fault' ? Gary * On 16 March 2011 07:50, S Sacco nn4x.st...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not loving this part too much Duty Cycle at 500 Watts 10 minutes key down / 5 minutes off' __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- *VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!!* __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
I'm a licensed Navy MARS operator. It is not uncommon to have very long digital messages that need to be sent using digital modes that will take longer than 10 minutes to send. This limitation pretty much eliminates this amplifier from being able to be used in my shack for MARS purposes. Now with that said, we don't often need to use an amplifier to send digitally, but in the event I did, I couldn't do it with this amp if there is a 10 minute duty cycle. Tim AE6LX On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Gary Gregory garyvk...@gmail.com wrote: *Why? I cannot think of a way I operate that would exceed a 10 minute transmission. Other than a 'Fault' ? Gary * On 16 March 2011 07:50, S Sacco nn4x.st...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not loving this part too much Duty Cycle at 500 Watts 10 minutes key down / 5 minutes off' __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- *VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!!* __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
I'm a licensed Navy MARS operator. It is not uncommon to have very long digital messages that need to be sent using digital modes that will take longer than 10 minutes to send. This limitation pretty much eliminates this amplifier from being able to be used in my shack for MARS purposes. Now with that said, we don't often need to use an amplifier to send digitally, but in the event I did, I couldn't do it with this amp if there is a 10 minute duty cycle. Tim AE6LX Turn.the.drive.down. You don't need to drive the amp to the full 500W output for your 10+ minute message. Perhaps 200-250W will do? -Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
10 min key down out of a total of 15 min is a duty cycle of 0.6667 which seems pretty good to me. I don't think I want to pay for a CCS rating when I'm really very ICAS. RTTY is my most demanding mode. I was a bit concerned about my K3 on RTTY so I wrote a little Perl script to go through a couple of RTTY logs and estimate the key down time. In the RTTY RU, my duty cycle was 0.19 ... yes, my contest rates aren't exactly stellar. In a RTTY ragchew, and assuming your contact is a wordy as you are, and you both know what you want to say so there's no diddle time, it would come to roughly 0.5 ... doesn't seem like a problem to me. I'm no longer worried about my K3 in RTTY, I'm running it at around 40W, driving the amplifier to 500W, to be practiced and ready for the KPA500. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2011 Cal QSO Party 1-2 Oct 2011 - www.cqp.org On 3/15/2011 2:56 PM, Gary Gregory wrote: *Why? I cannot think of a way I operate that would exceed a 10 minute transmission. Other than a 'Fault' ? On 16 March 2011 07:50, S Sacconn4x.st...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not loving this part too much Duty Cycle at 500 Watts 10 minutes key down / 5 minutes off' __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
The amount of power required is a function of propagation and intended recipient. I can't say in advance of an *event*, how much power will be required. If 100 watts isn't cutting it on the first delivery attempt (it usually does), I'm not fooling around with 250 watts...I'm going straight to 500 if that's how much power I have available. There is no use the minimum amount of power requred... rules here. Rather, we use the tools we have available and methods within our SOP to get the message handled efficiently and accurately. MARS isn't a trial and error service. The real question is whether or not the 10 minute duty cycle is a function of heat or is it a timer / firmware controlled function? The first circumstance can be managed, however if duty cycle is controlled by the latter then it doesn't seem viable to the MARS service to me. Any insight into this question? Tim On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Bruce Beford bruce.bef...@myfairpoint.netwrote: I'm a licensed Navy MARS operator. It is not uncommon to have very long digital messages that need to be sent using digital modes that will take longer than 10 minutes to send. This limitation pretty much eliminates this amplifier from being able to be used in my shack for MARS purposes. Now with that said, we don't often need to use an amplifier to send digitally, but in the event I did, I couldn't do it with this amp if there is a 10 minute duty cycle. Tim AE6LX Turn.the.drive.down. You don't need to drive the amp to the full 500W output for your 10+ minute message. Perhaps 200-250W will do? -Bruce, N1RX __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
Heat. 73, Lyle KK7P The real question is whether or not the 10 minute duty cycle is a function of heat or is it a timer / firmware controlled function? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
Lyle is correct (as usual). It is not a firmware function until things get too hot for the fan to handle. Jack B, W6FB On Mar 15, 2011, at 4:09 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: Heat. 73, Lyle KK7P The real question is whether or not the 10 minute duty cycle is a function of heat or is it a timer / firmware controlled function? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
I can make you a very long list of amps and their finals which are destroyed by key down at full ham power for 10 minutes. I can make a long list of transceivers that will not run their rated power CCS. A K3 will do that by common experience, but Wayne ain't guaranteeing it. Typically we don't really expect ham transceivers to run CCS. Why would we expect ham amps to run CCS. If you need CCS duty cycles at a particular power level, you can buy CCS military equipment rated for that power. OR, you can buy a ham amp that specifies a brick on key rating (usually a derating). Alpha's have them, and some others. The manufacturer needs to specify if there is a derating to CCS. A derating is not always possible (or admitted to) because the lower powers operate quite less efficiently, particularly in broadband transistor amps without variable tuning. Then there is this issue of running amps into awful antennas with marginal matching. Only the amp designer knows for sure if there is a CCS figure, and the mfr has to decide to take the risk and publish the figure. Many different manufacturers' ham amp models have been destroyed just by operating in contests at the manufacturer's published power level. You hear all about smoking amps at meetings of PVRC, YCCC, NCCC and the like. Contests are a continuing 40% duty cycle overall, digital contests maybe 50%, 55%. It appears that the KPA500 is designed for a 67% duty cycle, with a maximum key down of 10 minutes at full power. That's pretty darn good for an amp in a K3 box complete with power supply. Can wait and see if Wayne wants to stick his head out there and list a CCS power rating for it. You want to send 25 minute digital transmissions? Pay the money and get an Alpha. 1500 watts out CCS for their newer models. My old Alpha 76PA will do 700 watts out brick on key, 1500 watts ICAS. The trick in the 76PA, is that you reduce the plate voltage for that (the old CW setting) and the 700 watts out is still in the sweet spot of the PI network design, so the tubes are efficient. 73, Guy. On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 6:16 PM, Tim Tucker ae...@worldwidedx.com wrote: I'm a licensed Navy MARS operator. It is not uncommon to have very long digital messages that need to be sent using digital modes that will take longer than 10 minutes to send. This limitation pretty much eliminates this amplifier from being able to be used in my shack for MARS purposes. Now with that said, we don't often need to use an amplifier to send digitally, but in the event I did, I couldn't do it with this amp if there is a 10 minute duty cycle. Tim AE6LX On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Gary Gregory garyvk...@gmail.com wrote: *Why? I cannot think of a way I operate that would exceed a 10 minute transmission. Other than a 'Fault' ? Gary * On 16 March 2011 07:50, S Sacco nn4x.st...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not loving this part too much Duty Cycle at 500 Watts 10 minutes key down / 5 minutes off' __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- *VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!!* __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
Guy, K2AV wrote: OR, you can buy a ham amp that specifies a brick on key rating (usually a derating). Alpha's have them, and some others. Did anyone else notice the Alpha ad in QST over Christmas showed a fruitcake on the key instead of a brick? Leigh/WA5ZNU -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KPA-500-FCC-docs-tp6174338p6175308.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] KPA-500 FCC docs
*We have lots of fruitcakes in VK - some have an amateur license !!! Grin Gary * On 16 March 2011 14:47, Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU le...@wa5znu.org wrote: Guy, K2AV wrote: OR, you can buy a ham amp that specifies a brick on key rating (usually a derating). Alpha's have them, and some others. Did anyone else notice the Alpha ad in QST over Christmas showed a fruitcake on the key instead of a brick? Leigh/WA5ZNU -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/KPA-500-FCC-docs-tp6174338p6175308.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- *VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile Elecraft Equipment K3 #679, KPA-500 #018 Living the dream!!!* __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
