Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
Randy: I can not speak to your local building codes but the rule of thumb is lightning does not like to travel horizontally. That doesn't mean it won't happen but usually lightning seeks the shortest path to ground. That suggests you should connect to the closest ground (exception: any fuel line). If possible I would drive my own ground rod below the shack and use the garage ground as well. There is no penalty for extra grounds. 73 de AE6QL, Fred -Original Message- From: Randy Moore [mailto:wrmoor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:15 AM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Sorry if someone has already asked this. My shack is on the second floor of my home and is on the opposite corner of the house from where the electrical power entry and ground are located. However, the electrical panel is in the garage right below my shack. Can I connect my shack ground to the panel ground instead of running a ~200' long line to the electrical ground on the other end of the house? Tnx es 73, Randy, KS4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
Question: Does grounding your tower or metal mast increase the likelihood of it being hit by lightning? I have a 50' metal mast holding up the center of a dipole. No antenna contacts the mast and the ant. is supported by rope. Should I drive in a ground rod just for the mast? If I do, would lightning be attracted to it then? It just seems like I'm inviting a hit by grounding it. Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Fred Townsend ftowns...@sbcglobal.net To: 'Randy Moore' wrmoor...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Randy: I can not speak to your local building codes but the rule of thumb is lightning does not like to travel horizontally. That doesn't mean it won't happen but usually lightning seeks the shortest path to ground. That suggests you should connect to the closest ground (exception: any fuel line). If possible I would drive my own ground rod below the shack and use the garage ground as well. There is no penalty for extra grounds. 73 de AE6QL, Fred -Original Message- From: Randy Moore [mailto:wrmoor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:15 AM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Sorry if someone has already asked this. My shack is on the second floor of my home and is on the opposite corner of the house from where the electrical power entry and ground are located. However, the electrical panel is in the garage right below my shack. Can I connect my shack ground to the panel ground instead of running a ~200' long line to the electrical ground on the other end of the house? Tnx es 73, Randy, KS4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
No, it will drain the electrostatic field in the vacinity and make it less likely to get hit. I have watched lightning strike my neighbor's 15 ft brick chimney about 100 ft away from my well grounded 70 ft tower with two beams installed. The better the grounding, the better and bonding it to the power entrance ground is a good thing as well. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ From: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com To: Fred Townsend ftowns...@sbcglobal.net; Randy Moore wrmoor...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 2:27:46 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Question: Does grounding your tower or metal mast increase the likelihood of it being hit by lightning? I have a 50' metal mast holding up the center of a dipole. No antenna contacts the mast and the ant. is supported by rope. Should I drive in a ground rod just for the mast? If I do, would lightning be attracted to it then? It just seems like I'm inviting a hit by grounding it. Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Fred Townsend ftowns...@sbcglobal.net To: 'Randy Moore' wrmoor...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Randy: I can not speak to your local building codes but the rule of thumb is lightning does not like to travel horizontally. That doesn't mean it won't happen but usually lightning seeks the shortest path to ground. That suggests you should connect to the closest ground (exception: any fuel line). If possible I would drive my own ground rod below the shack and use the garage ground as well. There is no penalty for extra grounds. 73 de AE6QL, Fred -Original Message- From: Randy Moore [mailto:wrmoor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:15 AM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Sorry if someone has already asked this. My shack is on the second floor of my home and is on the opposite corner of the house from where the electrical power entry and ground are located. However, the electrical panel is in the garage right below my shack. Can I connect my shack ground to the panel ground instead of running a ~200' long line to the electrical ground on the other end of the house? Tnx es 73, Randy, KS4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
I absolutely agree. I have a deep heavy ground rod right outside my window. Have a 4 inch copper strap coming into the shack where all pieces of equipment are individually grounded to this. Outside, the ground rod is attached to # 4 wire that goes to the house ground and to the 70 Ft tower. Then I have 6 ground rods around the tower that attach to the tower. Also have ground rods every 15 ft attached to the wire going to the house ground. I have had two direct hits and never lost a piece of equipment except for the traps on the Mosley PRO67B-3. I too have seen hits near the house. I know I am just lucky but tried to do the best I could with the grounding. Plus I have ARRL insurance. Phil Philip LaMarche LaMarche Enterprises, Inc p...@lamarcheenterprises.com www.LaMarcheEnterprises.com 727-944-3226 727-937-8834 Fax 727-510-5038 Cell www.w9dvm.com K3 #1605 CCA 98-00827 CRA 1701 W9DVM -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of WILLIS COOKE Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 3:46 PM To: Steve Ellington; Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection No, it will drain the electrostatic field in the vacinity and make it less likely to get hit. I have watched lightning strike my neighbor's 15 ft brick chimney about 100 ft away from my well grounded 70 ft tower with two beams installed. The better the grounding, the better and bonding it to the power entrance ground is a good thing as well. Willis 'Cookie' Cooke K5EWJ From: Steve Ellington n...@carolina.rr.com To: Fred Townsend ftowns...@sbcglobal.net; Randy Moore wrmoor...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thu, April 21, 2011 2:27:46 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Question: Does grounding your tower or metal mast increase the likelihood of it being hit by lightning? I have a 50' metal mast holding up the center of a dipole. No antenna contacts the mast and the ant. is supported by rope. Should I drive in a ground rod just for the mast? If I do, would lightning be attracted to it then? It just seems like I'm inviting a hit by grounding it. Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Fred Townsend ftowns...@sbcglobal.net To: 'Randy Moore' wrmoor...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Randy: I can not speak to your local building codes but the rule of thumb is lightning does not like to travel horizontally. That doesn't mean it won't happen but usually lightning seeks the shortest path to ground. That suggests you should connect to the closest ground (exception: any fuel line). If possible I would drive my own ground rod below the shack and use the garage ground as well. There is no penalty for extra grounds. 73 de AE6QL, Fred -Original Message- From: Randy Moore [mailto:wrmoor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:15 AM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Sorry if someone has already asked this. My shack is on the second floor of my home and is on the opposite corner of the house from where the electrical power entry and ground are located. However, the electrical panel is in the garage right below my shack. Can I connect my shack ground to the panel ground instead of running a ~200' long line to the electrical ground on the other end of the house? Tnx es 73, Randy, KS4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
Lightning is about as predictable as your average teenager. It is very [very!] common for cloud-to-ground strikes to start with a ground-to-cloud leader. You can't see it and it happens fairly fast [but nowhere near as fast as the main strike]. It builds an ionization path when the main strike then follows from the cloud to the ground ... at least part-way. So, one could surmise that a ground rod connected to your mast would offer a desirable path for the leader current and thus attract a strike. Whether or not this will happen depends on where the ground charge has accumulated [usually but not always under the guilty cloud], whether or not your ground rod actually *is* a desirable path, what else is around your mast, and a host of other unpredictable things. A rod stuck in the earth makes a very problematical connection to ground. The fact that the apex of the mast is not connected to your antenna is not relevant for a strike, although it is relevant for precip static. If a few megavolts decides to land on your grounded mast, it will all become connected and a few microseconds later, be vaporized. 73, Fred K6DGW On 4/21/2011 7:27 PM, Steve Ellington wrote: Question: Does grounding your tower or metal mast increase the likelihood of it being hit by lightning? I have a 50' metal mast holding up the center of a dipole. No antenna contacts the mast and the ant. is supported by rope. Should I drive in a ground rod just for the mast? If I do, would lightning be attracted to it then? It just seems like I'm inviting a hit by grounding it. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
Question: Does grounding your tower or metal mast increase the likelihood of it being hit by lightning? Answer: One would hope would hope so. There are several theories of lightning protection. Before I comment on those methods let me ask. Would you rather the lightning strike your antenna or your mast? If the antenna is struck your coax and everything attached or (usually) anything near your coax, is hosed. Even disconnect switches do not always protect. Conclusion it is much better to take the strike on the mast but if you can prevent the strike you are still better off. As a young boy I helped my grandfather install lightning rods on houses. There were two kinds of rods. One had a sharp point at the end and the other a big ball. The ball rods were considered to be superior because they usually took more strikes. Now we know that the pointed variety is superior because they bleed off charge preventing strikes. Take a close look at the popular video making the rounds showing the guys climbing a 1700'? tower. Did you notice all the sharply pointed objects on arms surrounding the top? Those are there to bleed off the charge. Final conclusion: Ground the mast and put a pointed lightning rod at the top. de Fred AE6QL. -Original Message- From: Steve Ellington [mailto:n...@carolina.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 12:28 PM To: Fred Townsend; 'Randy Moore'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Question: Does grounding your tower or metal mast increase the likelihood of it being hit by lightning? I have a 50' metal mast holding up the center of a dipole. No antenna contacts the mast and the ant. is supported by rope. Should I drive in a ground rod just for the mast? If I do, would lightning be attracted to it then? It just seems like I'm inviting a hit by grounding it. Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Fred Townsend ftowns...@sbcglobal.net To: 'Randy Moore' wrmoor...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Randy: I can not speak to your local building codes but the rule of thumb is lightning does not like to travel horizontally. That doesn't mean it won't happen but usually lightning seeks the shortest path to ground. That suggests you should connect to the closest ground (exception: any fuel line). If possible I would drive my own ground rod below the shack and use the garage ground as well. There is no penalty for extra grounds. 73 de AE6QL, Fred -Original Message- From: Randy Moore [mailto:wrmoor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:15 AM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Sorry if someone has already asked this. My shack is on the second floor of my home and is on the opposite corner of the house from where the electrical power entry and ground are located. However, the electrical panel is in the garage right below my shack. Can I connect my shack ground to the panel ground instead of running a ~200' long line to the electrical ground on the other end of the house? Tnx es 73, Randy, KS4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
Then I should charge my neighbors for protecting their houses from lightning. Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Fred Townsend ftowns...@sbcglobal.net To: 'Steve Ellington' n...@carolina.rr.com; 'Randy Moore' wrmoor...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:04 PM Subject: RE: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Question: Does grounding your tower or metal mast increase the likelihood of it being hit by lightning? Answer: One would hope would hope so. There are several theories of lightning protection. Before I comment on those methods let me ask. Would you rather the lightning strike your antenna or your mast? If the antenna is struck your coax and everything attached or (usually) anything near your coax, is hosed. Even disconnect switches do not always protect. Conclusion it is much better to take the strike on the mast but if you can prevent the strike you are still better off. As a young boy I helped my grandfather install lightning rods on houses. There were two kinds of rods. One had a sharp point at the end and the other a big ball. The ball rods were considered to be superior because they usually took more strikes. Now we know that the pointed variety is superior because they bleed off charge preventing strikes. Take a close look at the popular video making the rounds showing the guys climbing a 1700'? tower. Did you notice all the sharply pointed objects on arms surrounding the top? Those are there to bleed off the charge. Final conclusion: Ground the mast and put a pointed lightning rod at the top. de Fred AE6QL. -Original Message- From: Steve Ellington [mailto:n...@carolina.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 12:28 PM To: Fred Townsend; 'Randy Moore'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Question: Does grounding your tower or metal mast increase the likelihood of it being hit by lightning? I have a 50' metal mast holding up the center of a dipole. No antenna contacts the mast and the ant. is supported by rope. Should I drive in a ground rod just for the mast? If I do, would lightning be attracted to it then? It just seems like I'm inviting a hit by grounding it. Steve N4LQ - Original Message - From: Fred Townsend ftowns...@sbcglobal.net To: 'Randy Moore' wrmoor...@gmail.com; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 12:19 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Randy: I can not speak to your local building codes but the rule of thumb is lightning does not like to travel horizontally. That doesn't mean it won't happen but usually lightning seeks the shortest path to ground. That suggests you should connect to the closest ground (exception: any fuel line). If possible I would drive my own ground rod below the shack and use the garage ground as well. There is no penalty for extra grounds. 73 de AE6QL, Fred -Original Message- From: Randy Moore [mailto:wrmoor...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:15 AM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Sorry if someone has already asked this. My shack is on the second floor of my home and is on the opposite corner of the house from where the electrical power entry and ground are located. However, the electrical panel is in the garage right below my shack. Can I connect my shack ground to the panel ground instead of running a ~200' long line to the electrical ground on the other end of the house? Tnx es 73, Randy, KS4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
After 40 years in South Florida (lightning capital of the US) in a 24/7 business with multiple towers from 50' to 1,000' , my attack for protection from lightning was to have a massive ground system with extremely low impedance as well as extremely low resistance in the ground system. A ground wire that has a bend in it has impedance! A 10' rod is not a ground for lighting. A ring with many rods works much better. Use a star system to interconnect the equipment; although I believe the cell industry has had very good success with Ring-Halo ground systems. Once that is done then consider a Dissipation Array. I believe that they reduced our exposure to damage considerably. Signal cables should be appropriately protected if they span the ground system. Almost all signal wire do span the ground system in one way or other. At ham power levels that would include the RF as well as control audio. When you see multiple strikes hit a tower and do not have to fix anything - it is a good feeling to know that it all got to the earth without stopping in any of the equipment. My 2 cents George AI4VZ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
Hi, My question is what can you do if you live in a rental situation where you don't have the real estate or permission to put in a commercial quality ground system. The landlord permits a 3 element Yagi on the roof but says no to digging up his property for the ground system. What is the best way around this situation? Thanks, Jim Douglas K2ZF -Original Message- From: Dick k8...@mho.com To: 'Dale Putnam' daleput...@hotmail.com; elecraft elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:27 pm Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection Dale, I have a good friend (Mike Higgins K6AER) who worked on lightning proofing cell tower sights; and I can say you both really understand the importance of good grounding!! I have the good fortune (not so good in thunderstorms) to live on top of a hill (6700 ft) south of Denver. Over the years I have erected an antenna farm, and devoted quite a bit of time working on (with Mikes help) the lightning protection issue. To the best of my knowledge, my work has paid off; to date (knock on wood) I have not had any damage from lightning (and more than one time I have forgotten to disconnect my equipment). I can't verify that I have been hit since I started putting up my farm in 1994, but a few years ago one of my neighbors called after we arrived home from an evening out to let me know the fire dept had been at my house an hour or so ago. I called the dispatcher, and he told me that a couple of individuals saw one of my towers take a hit, and called it in. He told me they responded to check out our house; and after talking to him, I checked out my equipment and everything seemed to work just fine (coax and rotor lines were disconnected, but everything was plugged in). Mike lives about 5 miles from me, and knows he has taken a few hits over the years; and to date, has not suffered in damage. However, he has also taken the time to adequately ground his station and tower. As you and I both know, one ground rod pounded in the ground right outside the shack is not going to do the trick; it is not going to dissipate the charge. I think the real issue for the vast majority of amateurs is, they do not have the necessary real-estate to install a good ground system; and second, the cost to do so (especially with today's prices for copper), is a fairly expensive endeavor. Additionally, you have to evaluate the risk; I lived in Central CA for ten years (79-89), and had two or three ground rods pounded in the ground. But we had less than one storm a year, so the risk was low; and I didn't have the land to really have a good system anyway. Dick K8ZTT Franktown, CO -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dale Putnam Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:58 PM To: n...@sonic.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection After spending a career chasing storms, each summer, following them, strike by strike, repairing the damages to commercial communicatins radio systems, and wishing deeply that there were a way to avoid the waste of time and resources in repairing the inevitable lightning damage Motorola gathered together, and published their R56 grounding standard, Polyphaser, a company that has made many an engineering carreer paid for, by placing arrestors in line... published a number of white papers on the subject... I then had the oppurtunity to embrace this information, and put it to a test. The very same tower site, that had previously taken one strike and damaged three stations, one beyond repair, was put to the test... the grounding standards were installed.. thoroughly.. top to bottom... and underground, Inside the building and outside then it was inspected not once.. but three times, the last time, was just a few weeks prior to the true test. What was the real true test? It was not one.. but SIX strikes to the tower, seperated by by not less than 2 minutes and not more than 10 minutes apart, all from the same thundershower, accompanied by wind shear and less than a half inch of rain, hail, and a flurry of snow. Now.. after all that... the damages to the tower? none. building - none, radios - none. my nerves... a wreck. I watched the lightning hit, and noting the time, so I would be able to fill out the response reports and trouble tickets, and invoice correctly... but that t ime note... was never needed. The 16 radios on site, didn't even hiccup. Not nary nothing. I figure that if a commercial site, that has to be on, and in use during a thunder storm can be made to do that.. then my little radio, that I have worked deligently to get on the air, and enjoy so much... doesn't deserve to be left to the whim of a whole herd of out of control electrons on a rampage. And sometimes... sometimes it is a real blast to not have to pull the plug, when the thunder announces that there is Lightning withing 5 miles. ... I don't
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
John, Dick, Dale, Et Al, Very interesting discussion! I'm sure this has come up before: Just one question: Where would one find good information on-line about proper grounding. Thanks! Regards, kurtt Kurt Pawlikowski The Pinrod Corporation ku...@pinrod.com (773) 284-9500 http://pinrod.com On 4/13/2011 00:24, John K9UWA wrote: As Dale stated Polyphaser is the way to go guys. As to the RISK. I live in Northern Indiana where thunder and lightning are common many times per year. I have three towers with the top antenna at 175 foot level. Trees here barely make it to 70 feet. So I am IT. There is no DISCONNECT during such storms. If I ever disconnected this station it would take a couple weeks to do so. Longer to reconnect it. 5 rotors on the three towers. Twenty Aluminum Yagi antennas for 40-10 meters plus numerous wire antennas. Relay control lines to switch all this stuff. After a rather nasty strike back in 1988 when I first installed a good share of this stuff. Insurance claim was close to 10K. Insurance company said: We don't want you. We did find an Assigned Risk Company who took us. They said 90 days to either get all that stuff on the ground or install a commercial ground system. Yes its lots of work and no its not cheap but let me tell you it does WORK. As Dale stated the Tower has been direct hit many times since 1988. Nothing is ever disconnected. Zero Damage has happened. Yes there are 100 ground rods buried in my yard. Yes they are connected by 1200 feet of copper 3/8 ID Tubing. It has a lower inductance per foot than 2 inch wide copper strap. Plus its cheaper. Same stuff as used to hook up AC systems with. I thought I owned STOCK in Polyphaser for a while. Contesters maybe used to recognize my callsign K9UWA and today they will recognize K9NW Mike as he operates the station in many contests. All with today one little K3 radio. I operate it remotely during the winters from Florida myself. so YES you can protect your whole station if you are willing to spend a little money and do a little WORK. Certainly beats the alternative of trying to find all the things that are messed up after Mother Nature takes its course. The expense really isn't all that great when compared to the cost of the radios, amplifiers, computers, TV sets, refrigerators and other things that are blown up by the lightning hits. It is a scary spectacular display when the tower is hit just after dark. Once it happened when we had a birthday party here with about 40 friends present. About 1/2 of them were Hams. I think some needed a change of underwear afterwards. John k9uwa John Goller, K9UWA Jean Goller, N9PXF Antique Radio Restorations k9...@arrl.net Visit our Web Site at: http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com 4836 Ranch Road Leo, IN 46765 USA 1-260-637-6426 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
Sorry if someone has already asked this. My shack is on the second floor of my home and is on the opposite corner of the house from where the electrical power entry and ground are located. However, the electrical panel is in the garage right below my shack. Can I connect my shack ground to the panel ground instead of running a ~200' long line to the electrical ground on the other end of the house? Tnx es 73, Randy, KS4L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
After spending a career chasing storms, each summer, following them, strike by strike, repairing the damages to commercial communicatins radio systems, and wishing deeply that there were a way to avoid the waste of time and resources in repairing the inevitable lightning damage Motorola gathered together, and published their R56 grounding standard, Polyphaser, a company that has made many an engineering carreer paid for, by placing arrestors in line... published a number of white papers on the subject... I then had the oppurtunity to embrace this information, and put it to a test. The very same tower site, that had previously taken one strike and damaged three stations, one beyond repair, was put to the test... the grounding standards were installed.. thoroughly.. top to bottom... and underground, Inside the building and outside then it was inspected not once.. but three times, the last time, was just a few weeks prior to the true test. What was the real true test? It was not one.. but SIX strikes to the tower, seperated by by not less than 2 minutes and not more than 10 minutes apart, all from the same thundershower, accompanied by wind shear and less than a half inch of rain, hail, and a flurry of snow. Now.. after all that... the damages to the tower? none. building - none, radios - none. my nerves... a wreck. I watched the lightning hit, and noting the time, so I would be able to fill out the response reports and trouble tickets, and invoice correctly... but that t ime note... was never needed. The 16 radios on site, didn't even hiccup. Not nary nothing. I figure that if a commercial site, that has to be on, and in use during a thunder storm can be made to do that.. then my little radio, that I have worked deligently to get on the air, and enjoy so much... doesn't deserve to be left to the whim of a whole herd of out of control electrons on a rampage. And sometimes... sometimes it is a real blast to not have to pull the plug, when the thunder announces that there is Lightning withing 5 miles. ... I don't recommend it tho... but it is nice to know that I don't HAVE to pull all the plugs RIGHT NOW Have a great day, --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy I understand the technical reasons that people suggest for grounding but I do not see the need. I have no problems. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
Dale, I have a good friend (Mike Higgins K6AER) who worked on lightning proofing cell tower sights; and I can say you both really understand the importance of good grounding!! I have the good fortune (not so good in thunderstorms) to live on top of a hill (6700 ft) south of Denver. Over the years I have erected an antenna farm, and devoted quite a bit of time working on (with Mikes help) the lightning protection issue. To the best of my knowledge, my work has paid off; to date (knock on wood) I have not had any damage from lightning (and more than one time I have forgotten to disconnect my equipment). I can't verify that I have been hit since I started putting up my farm in 1994, but a few years ago one of my neighbors called after we arrived home from an evening out to let me know the fire dept had been at my house an hour or so ago. I called the dispatcher, and he told me that a couple of individuals saw one of my towers take a hit, and called it in. He told me they responded to check out our house; and after talking to him, I checked out my equipment and everything seemed to work just fine (coax and rotor lines were disconnected, but everything was plugged in). Mike lives about 5 miles from me, and knows he has taken a few hits over the years; and to date, has not suffered in damage. However, he has also taken the time to adequately ground his station and tower. As you and I both know, one ground rod pounded in the ground right outside the shack is not going to do the trick; it is not going to dissipate the charge. I think the real issue for the vast majority of amateurs is, they do not have the necessary real-estate to install a good ground system; and second, the cost to do so (especially with today's prices for copper), is a fairly expensive endeavor. Additionally, you have to evaluate the risk; I lived in Central CA for ten years (79-89), and had two or three ground rods pounded in the ground. But we had less than one storm a year, so the risk was low; and I didn't have the land to really have a good system anyway. Dick K8ZTT Franktown, CO -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Dale Putnam Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 8:58 PM To: n...@sonic.net; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection After spending a career chasing storms, each summer, following them, strike by strike, repairing the damages to commercial communicatins radio systems, and wishing deeply that there were a way to avoid the waste of time and resources in repairing the inevitable lightning damage Motorola gathered together, and published their R56 grounding standard, Polyphaser, a company that has made many an engineering carreer paid for, by placing arrestors in line... published a number of white papers on the subject... I then had the oppurtunity to embrace this information, and put it to a test. The very same tower site, that had previously taken one strike and damaged three stations, one beyond repair, was put to the test... the grounding standards were installed.. thoroughly.. top to bottom... and underground, Inside the building and outside then it was inspected not once.. but three times, the last time, was just a few weeks prior to the true test. What was the real true test? It was not one.. but SIX strikes to the tower, seperated by by not less than 2 minutes and not more than 10 minutes apart, all from the same thundershower, accompanied by wind shear and less than a half inch of rain, hail, and a flurry of snow. Now.. after all that... the damages to the tower? none. building - none, radios - none. my nerves... a wreck. I watched the lightning hit, and noting the time, so I would be able to fill out the response reports and trouble tickets, and invoice correctly... but that t ime note... was never needed. The 16 radios on site, didn't even hiccup. Not nary nothing. I figure that if a commercial site, that has to be on, and in use during a thunder storm can be made to do that.. then my little radio, that I have worked deligently to get on the air, and enjoy so much... doesn't deserve to be left to the whim of a whole herd of out of control electrons on a rampage. And sometimes... sometimes it is a real blast to not have to pull the plug, when the thunder announces that there is Lightning withing 5 miles. ... I don't recommend it tho... but it is nice to know that I don't HAVE to pull all the plugs RIGHT NOW Have a great day, --... ...-- Dale - WC7S in Wy I understand the technical reasons that people suggest for grounding but I do not see the need. I have no problems. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http
Re: [Elecraft] Ligntning protection
As Dale stated Polyphaser is the way to go guys. As to the RISK. I live in Northern Indiana where thunder and lightning are common many times per year. I have three towers with the top antenna at 175 foot level. Trees here barely make it to 70 feet. So I am IT. There is no DISCONNECT during such storms. If I ever disconnected this station it would take a couple weeks to do so. Longer to reconnect it. 5 rotors on the three towers. Twenty Aluminum Yagi antennas for 40-10 meters plus numerous wire antennas. Relay control lines to switch all this stuff. After a rather nasty strike back in 1988 when I first installed a good share of this stuff. Insurance claim was close to 10K. Insurance company said: We don't want you. We did find an Assigned Risk Company who took us. They said 90 days to either get all that stuff on the ground or install a commercial ground system. Yes its lots of work and no its not cheap but let me tell you it does WORK. As Dale stated the Tower has been direct hit many times since 1988. Nothing is ever disconnected. Zero Damage has happened. Yes there are 100 ground rods buried in my yard. Yes they are connected by 1200 feet of copper 3/8 ID Tubing. It has a lower inductance per foot than 2 inch wide copper strap. Plus its cheaper. Same stuff as used to hook up AC systems with. I thought I owned STOCK in Polyphaser for a while. Contesters maybe used to recognize my callsign K9UWA and today they will recognize K9NW Mike as he operates the station in many contests. All with today one little K3 radio. I operate it remotely during the winters from Florida myself. so YES you can protect your whole station if you are willing to spend a little money and do a little WORK. Certainly beats the alternative of trying to find all the things that are messed up after Mother Nature takes its course. The expense really isn't all that great when compared to the cost of the radios, amplifiers, computers, TV sets, refrigerators and other things that are blown up by the lightning hits. It is a scary spectacular display when the tower is hit just after dark. Once it happened when we had a birthday party here with about 40 friends present. About 1/2 of them were Hams. I think some needed a change of underwear afterwards. John k9uwa John Goller, K9UWA Jean Goller, N9PXF Antique Radio Restorations k9...@arrl.net Visit our Web Site at: http://www.JohnJeanAntiqueRadio.com 4836 Ranch Road Leo, IN 46765 USA 1-260-637-6426 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
