Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
On 11/21/2011 8:36 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > Of course casual operation is perfectly okay as long as the channel isn't > being used by an emergency net or the primary holder of the allocation. You may be in a better part of the state than I am, but every time that I punch up the 60m channels in the Portland area it's "All Quiet on the Western Front" (except for the Navy's 850-Hz encrypted RTTY signals, of course). Neither the State of Oregon Emergency Management nor its equivalent in Washington County (the most active in ham communications) have 60m nets and may not even have 60m capability. Wanna' make a sked? -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 Member, Washington County, OR Emergency Communications Team __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
On 11/21/2011 12:12 AM, Mike Morrow wrote: > Without the events of 11 September 2001, it is likely that a small > *continuous* segment would have been made available in the 5 MHz range. > Several decades of experience in both Federal and non-Federal spectrum management have taught me that one should never bet on something like that happening. Both the government and non-government users were firmly entrenched in that band long before 9/11 and no one in their right mind gives spectrum back. The Los Angeles Police Department had allocations at 1730 and 2466 kHz and finally released it twenty-plus years after they stopped using it for anything substantial. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Folks - This thread was closed earlier today. Its well over the max posting limit, Please take further correspondence off list. 73, Eric WA6HHQ List moderator --- www.elecraft.com On 11/21/2011 11:27 AM, Phil Kane wrote: > On 11/20/2011 8:45 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > >> down by 1.4 kHz. NOW, I can't resolve why everyone uses a downward >> shift of 1.5 kHz instead of a shift of 1.4 kHz - perhaps someone can >> explain that difference to me. I see nothing in the FCC documents that >> provides for a 100 Hz guard band which would increase the effective >> channel width to 3.0 kHz and thus yield a suppressed carrier shift of >> 1.5 kHz from the channel center. Mysteries, mysteries, mysteries - but >> that is the way we are told to do it, and the FCC has not complained so >> far - maybe just "let sleeping dogs lie" is the best recourse. >Enter stage left, the U S Coast Guard whose GMDSS (Marine >safety) SITOR (commercial version of AMTOR) transmissions say: > >NMC GMDSS SITOR FEC BROADCAST > >FREQUENCIES: 8416.5 KHZ >16806.5 KHZ > >TIMES: 0015 AND 1735 UTC > >NOTE: CARRIER OR DIAL FREQUENCY IS LOCATED 1700 HZ BELOW THE >ASSIGNED FREQUENCY (-1.7 KHZ). > >On my (some say ancient) ICOM R-7000 HF receiver in FSK mode, >I set the dial 800 Hz below the assigned frequency. On my >TenTec RX 320D SDR HF receiver in LSB mode, I set the dial 2.19 >kHz above the assigned frequency. > >Mysteries indeed. > >My K2 doesn't tune those frequencies so I can't comment on >that, but I do like the idea of setting the first five memory >channels for USB/data/RTTY mode in VFO A and for CW mode in >VFO-B. Cheap and easy solution. > > -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane > Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
On 11/20/2011 8:45 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > down by 1.4 kHz. NOW, I can't resolve why everyone uses a downward > shift of 1.5 kHz instead of a shift of 1.4 kHz - perhaps someone can > explain that difference to me. I see nothing in the FCC documents that > provides for a 100 Hz guard band which would increase the effective > channel width to 3.0 kHz and thus yield a suppressed carrier shift of > 1.5 kHz from the channel center. Mysteries, mysteries, mysteries - but > that is the way we are told to do it, and the FCC has not complained so > far - maybe just "let sleeping dogs lie" is the best recourse. Enter stage left, the U S Coast Guard whose GMDSS (Marine safety) SITOR (commercial version of AMTOR) transmissions say: NMC GMDSS SITOR FEC BROADCAST FREQUENCIES: 8416.5 KHZ 16806.5 KHZ TIMES: 0015 AND 1735 UTC NOTE: CARRIER OR DIAL FREQUENCY IS LOCATED 1700 HZ BELOW THE ASSIGNED FREQUENCY (-1.7 KHZ). On my (some say ancient) ICOM R-7000 HF receiver in FSK mode, I set the dial 800 Hz below the assigned frequency. On my TenTec RX 320D SDR HF receiver in LSB mode, I set the dial 2.19 kHz above the assigned frequency. Mysteries indeed. My K2 doesn't tune those frequencies so I can't comment on that, but I do like the idea of setting the first five memory channels for USB/data/RTTY mode in VFO A and for CW mode in VFO-B. Cheap and easy solution. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
That being the original intent, the FCC should have made the allocation like The Alaskan Emergency Frequency allocation. 73, Tom Amateur Radio Operator N5GE ARRL Lifetime Member QCWA Lifetime Member On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 08:36:55 -0800, "Ron D'Eau Claire" wrote: >The stated objective for permission to use the 60-meter channels was not to >acquire more spectrum for casual operating. It was to provide communications >frequencies between 80 and 40 meters needed by the various emergency nets, >particularly the hurricane nets in the southeast, who often found the skip >too long on 40 and too short on 80. > >Of course casual operation is perfectly okay as long as the channel isn't >being used by an emergency net or the primary holder of the allocation. > [snip] __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues [END of Thread]
Folks - We are well past the posting limit for a single topic. Let's end the thread for now. 73, Eric Elecraft List Moderator --- www.elecraft.com On 11/21/2011 8:36 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > The stated objective for permission to use the 60-meter channels was not to > acquire more spectrum for casual operating. It was to provide communications > frequencies between 80 and 40 meters needed by the various emergency nets, > particularly the hurricane nets in the southeast, who often found the skip > too long on 40 and too short on 80. > > Of course casual operation is perfectly okay as long as the channel isn't > being used by an emergency net or the primary holder of the allocation. > > Ron AC7AC > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
The stated objective for permission to use the 60-meter channels was not to acquire more spectrum for casual operating. It was to provide communications frequencies between 80 and 40 meters needed by the various emergency nets, particularly the hurricane nets in the southeast, who often found the skip too long on 40 and too short on 80. Of course casual operation is perfectly okay as long as the channel isn't being used by an emergency net or the primary holder of the allocation. Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Me thinks the ARRL AND the FCC made a mistake when it originally allocated the channelized 60m Amateure band. It would have been smarter to allocate a continuous band as Mike suggests. It didn't have to be 60m. It could have been a continuous segment of the old 11m band. 73, Tom Amateur Radio Operator N5GE ARRL Lifetime Member QCWA Lifetime Member __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
This is just my opinion, I could be wrong... We will have to be very careful that we don't end up with a channelized mess like the U.S. CB channels. I for one probably won't use it for amateur communications, due to the congestion that will be on those channels. Me thinks the ARRL AND the FCC made a mistake when it originally allocated the channelized 60m Amateure band. It would have been smarter to allocate a continuous band as Mike suggests. It didn't have to be 60m. It could have been a continuous segment of the old 11m band. 73, Tom Amateur Radio Operator N5GE ARRL Lifetime Member QCWA Lifetime Member On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 02:12:48 -0600 (GMT-06:00), Mike Morrow wrote: [snip] >Without the events of 11 September 2001, it is likely that a small >*continuous* segment would have been made available in the 5 MHz range. > >73, >Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Fred wrote: > One big thing we ALL need to understand: As currently proposed, the > new CW and digital modes are also to be centered. But only the CW signals are anchored on the channel center frequency. All the others are anchored at the channel carrier frequency, which "may" be 1.5 kHz below the channel center frequency. The new rule 97.303(h) states: "...control operators of stations transmitting phone, data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center frequency as specified in the table..." That "may set" wording hasn't near the same force as "must set" or "will set", so one wonders why the one form is used, if the others are the intent. We can be thankful that PSK31 won't be required to be on the channel center frequency. > ...5 MHz is a really cool spectrum, quite different than 7 or 3.5 MHz, > that's probably why the NTIA/FCC feel somewhat protective of it. Without the events of 11 September 2001, it is likely that a small *continuous* segment would have been made available in the 5 MHz range. 73, Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
On 11/20/2011 8:45 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > This new ruling (when it takes effect) amplifies the cardinal rule - > "User, know your transceiver and how it handles both the transmit and > receive frequencies for all modes". Yeppers, just like it's always been. > We hams use the SSB suppressed carrier frequency,, but (at > least for 60 meters), the FCC regs refer to the center channel frequency > - the suppressed carrier frequency is left for us to figure out. That's pretty standard on the planet, except for us. But then in our defense, no one "tunes around the band" like we do ... indeed, most can't "tune" at all. > NOW, I can't resolve why everyone uses a downward > shift of 1.5 kHz instead of a shift of 1.4 kHz - perhaps someone can > explain that difference to me. I suspect it comes from the fact that a single-channel analog audio radiotelephone baseband generally is considered to extend from 300 to about 2500 or so Hz, give or take a little on each end. So, in the rules, the FCC "helped us out," and told us where to put our suppressed carrier [what most of our radios show us] such that our RF signal will be more or less centered in the channel allocation after our transmitter processes the baseband. Or ... maybe not, but the math does work out :-) One big thing we ALL need to understand: As currently proposed, the new CW and digital modes are also to be centered. It says so, and in the discussion, the Commission explains why they did not accept the ARRL recommendation that the channel be treated as a 2.8 KHz "ham band" for PSK purposes. The good news: We started with 5 USB channels, NTIA agreed to swap one for another channel with less primary user activity, and to give us both CW and digital use. If we behave with this as we apparently have with USB-only, we might get more. 5 MHz is a really cool spectrum, quite different than 7 or 3.5 MHz, that's probably why the NTIA/FCC feel somewhat protective of it. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Mike, This new ruling (when it takes effect) amplifies the cardinal rule - "User, know your transceiver and how it handles both the transmit and receive frequencies for all modes". Knowing the frequency you are transmitting on has been an FCC requirement from day one. They do not care about your receive frequency. not only that, but the transmit frequency is defined in their terms. We hams use the SSB suppressed carrier frequency,, but (at least for 60 meters), the FCC regs refer to the center channel frequency - the suppressed carrier frequency is left for us to figure out. You did answer that question on your ham exam correctly, did you not - 2.8 kHz width divided by 2 equals 1.4 kHz, so shift the suppressed carrier down by 1.4 kHz. NOW, I can't resolve why everyone uses a downward shift of 1.5 kHz instead of a shift of 1.4 kHz - perhaps someone can explain that difference to me. I see nothing in the FCC documents that provides for a 100 Hz guard band which would increase the effective channel width to 3.0 kHz and thus yield a suppressed carrier shift of 1.5 kHz from the channel center. Mysteries, mysteries, mysteries - but that is the way we are told to do it, and the FCC has not complained so far - maybe just "let sleeping dogs lie" is the best recourse. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/20/2011 11:22 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: > Don wrote: > >> I actually was responding to a statement made in a post saying that most >> transceivers shift the TRANSMIT frequency. > Hi Don. Well...er...that *might* have been me when I wrote: > >> When the transceiver is shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically >> remains 5357.0 kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to >> typically >> 5357.8 kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). > :-) > >> If there are any that do... > In my defense, some ancient rigs like the TS-120S and others from 30 years ago > DO maintain the RECEIVER carrier frequency the same as mode changes are made, > and maintain TRANSMITTER carrier frequency that same value for LSB and USB. > But > they shift the transmitter carrier frequency up (and change the displayed > frequency) > by 0.8 kHz during CW transmission. The TS-120S in CW mode sets the receiver > to > USB mode, say, on 3550.0 kHz, and when the transmitter is keyed, the > frequency and > the display shift to 3550.8 kHz. The display always shows transmit frequency > when transmitting, and always shows receive frequency when receiving. The > current convention always shows transmit frequency, even while receiving in CW > mode. > > In a way, that process more clearly shows what is happening. Today, most rigs > show no change in displayed frequency on CW between transmit and receive. The > casual observer knows something is changing frequency, but it's not obvious > what. > >> ...I believe they are in the minority. > I'm sure you're correct. Few rigs today follow that convention. I prefer the > current convention. > > 73, > Mike / KK5F > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Don wrote: > I actually was responding to a statement made in a post saying that most > transceivers shift the TRANSMIT frequency. Hi Don. Well...er...that *might* have been me when I wrote: > When the transceiver is shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically > remains 5357.0 kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically > 5357.8 kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). :-) > If there are any that do... In my defense, some ancient rigs like the TS-120S and others from 30 years ago DO maintain the RECEIVER carrier frequency the same as mode changes are made, and maintain TRANSMITTER carrier frequency that same value for LSB and USB. But they shift the transmitter carrier frequency up (and change the displayed frequency) by 0.8 kHz during CW transmission. The TS-120S in CW mode sets the receiver to USB mode, say, on 3550.0 kHz, and when the transmitter is keyed, the frequency and the display shift to 3550.8 kHz. The display always shows transmit frequency when transmitting, and always shows receive frequency when receiving. The current convention always shows transmit frequency, even while receiving in CW mode. In a way, that process more clearly shows what is happening. Today, most rigs show no change in displayed frequency on CW between transmit and receive. The casual observer knows something is changing frequency, but it's not obvious what. > ...I believe they are in the minority. I'm sure you're correct. Few rigs today follow that convention. I prefer the current convention. 73, Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 4:23 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: > Such issues have never been been imposed on ham band operations, and > thus represent a novelty to most. Even those familiar with MARS, CAP, > SHARES, etc. have likely not dealt with such, since little or none of > the operations on those outside-ham-band services use CW. There are CW nets, voice nets, and digital nets in NavyMARS. The frequency plan, at least for NavyMARS, deals with carrier shift in a very similar manner to the new 60m FCC plan. Carrier frequencies are listed on the frequency plan and the operators are expected to understand which way to shift for the appropriate mode and type of net. It's not that big of a deal once you get used to it. Tim AE6LX, Amateur Radio NNN0ITA SCA, NavyMARS NNN0GAF FOUR, Southern California Training Director NavyMARS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Heh. Those of us above a certain (ham) age (more than my 35 years of ham life) will remember when some HF activity was based around crystal operations, not wherever we chose to park. It doesn't seem TOO long ago either, looking back. A VFO for transmit was less common. And Don, using the A/B VFO for SSB/CW mode frequenciess on 60M? You're smarter than you look? ;-p Rick WA6NHC -Original Message- From: Fred Jensen Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 4:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues Many did not think we hams could adapt to fairly restrictive channelized HF operation. That NTIA, who manages this spectrum for primary federal government users was willing to expand our privileges says a great deal about how we proved the doubters wrong. Let's keep it up. 73, Fred K6DGW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Mike, I actually was responding to a statement made in a post saying that most transceivers shift the TRANSMIT frequency. If there are any that do, I believe they are in the minority. With the K3, if 5 memories are used for 60 meters, one can set channel hopping, but that also makes it easy to switch between SSB and CW - if one sets VFO A to SSB (with its correct carrier frequency) and sets VFO B to CW with its correct center channel frequency, then changing between SSB and CW is simply a matter of tapping the A/B button -- the M1 - 4 buttons could be used for data modes if desired. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/20/2011 7:23 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: > Don wrote: > >> Not all transceivers shift the transmit frequency. > Hi Don. I suspect that *most* rigs do NOT shift the transmit frequency > when changing from USB to CW. My ancient TS-50S does not. But that > has nothing to do with the issue. > >> The Elecraft K2 and K3 dial always indicate the carrier frequency, and >> what is displayed does not change when changing modes. > That's identical to the Kenwood TS-50S. > > If the TS-50S display shows 5357.0 kHz (the new 60m carrier frequency), > it will show that as LSB, USB, or CW modes are selected. That accurately > reflects the transmitter carrier frequency remaining unchanged for all three > modes. However, the TS-50S is normally configured when in CW mode for the > receiver to be in USB mode, but shifted down from the displayed frequency > by 0.8 kHz so that a received signal on 5357.0 kHz will produce an 800 Hz > sidetone. So, the transmitter carrier frequency remains 5357.0 khz, and > the receiver carrier frequency shifts down to 5356.2 kHz when mode is > changed from USB to CW. > >> With either Elecraft or Yaesu, there is nothing complicated to figure >> out - set the displayed frequency to the center channel frequency - but >> with the Yaesu, one must do that AFTER setting to CW mode. With the >> Elecraft gear, you can set the frequency in whichever mode you choose, >> then switch to CW. > But "complexity" is not the issue. > > Regardless of whether the receiver or transmitter is shifted to switch > between USB and CW, the point here is that one will NOT be able to have > his Elecraft (or any other rig) tuned to 5357.0 kHz on USB, and then > simply switch mode to CW and carry on. The Elecraft, my Kenwood, and most > other rigs would then transmit on 5357.0 kHz, **violating** the > requirements of the new FCC rule 97.305(f) that CW signals on the 60 > meter channels transmit on the channel center frequency (here 5358.5 kHz). > For every ham rig currently available (including the K3), some thought > will need to be exercised before transferring modes between USB and CW > on the 60 meter band. It's NOT going to be only the simple and customary > shift of the emission mode switch to CW...it will also require ensuring that > the CW transmission takes place on the channel center frequency, 1.5 kHz > above the channel carrier frequency! That's the ONLY point I've tried to > show. The constraints of channelized operation are still somewhat foreign > to most hams, and this particular issue arises only due to the addition > of CW as a new U.S. 60m band mode. > > For rigs whose carrier frequency never changes with mode change, the > easiest approach to add 60 meter CW capability will be by programming > five channels on the specified 60m *carrier* frequencies (like 5357.0 kHz) > for USB Phone, Data, and RTTY (but NEVER CW) modes, plus five frequencies > on the specified 60m *center* frequencies (like 5358.5 kHz) for CW mode > ONLY. > > I suppose it will need to be determined if there is any value, for 60m > only, of enabling a shift from 5357.0 kHz USB operation to 5358.5 kHz > CW operation with no operator intervention other than changing mode. > Were that desired, then the rig in question would need to shift the > transmitted carrier frequency from 5357.0 kHz to to 5358.5, and shift > the receiver carrier frequency from 5357.0 kHz to 5357.7 kHz (if an > 800 Hz sidetone pitch is desired). > > Such issues have never been been imposed on ham band operations, and > thus represent a novelty to most. Even those familiar with MARS, CAP, > SHARES, etc. have likely not dealt with such, since little or none of > the operations on those outside-ham-band services use CW. > > FWIW, the effective date of the 60m band changes in the US is 30 days > after publication of the rule changes in the Federal Register, and > **NOT** 30 days after the FCC approval on 18 November 2011. Folks > must take care NOT to use the new rules BEFORE they are effective, > and NOT to use the old rules afterward. > > Anyone wishing to monitor the Federal Register for rule publication > can do so at: > > > http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=FR&browsePath=2011 > > 73, > Mike / KK5F > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/ma
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
These are very good discussions. To add a minor note to Mike's warning at the end, US Federal Government Agency rule changes issued late in the year [sort of like now] often take some time to appear in the Fed Reg. They take vacations around this time too. Patience here will be a virtue. And there is victory here too! Many did not think we hams could adapt to fairly restrictive channelized HF operation. That NTIA, who manages this spectrum for primary federal government users was willing to expand our privileges says a great deal about how we proved the doubters wrong. Let's keep it up. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2012 Cal QSO Party 6-7 Oct 2012 - www.cqp.org On 11/20/2011 4:23 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: > Don wrote: > >> Not all transceivers shift the transmit frequency. > > Hi Don. I suspect that *most* rigs do NOT shift the transmit frequency > when changing from USB to CW. My ancient TS-50S does not. But that > has nothing to do with the issue. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Don wrote: > Not all transceivers shift the transmit frequency. Hi Don. I suspect that *most* rigs do NOT shift the transmit frequency when changing from USB to CW. My ancient TS-50S does not. But that has nothing to do with the issue. > The Elecraft K2 and K3 dial always indicate the carrier frequency, and > what is displayed does not change when changing modes. That's identical to the Kenwood TS-50S. If the TS-50S display shows 5357.0 kHz (the new 60m carrier frequency), it will show that as LSB, USB, or CW modes are selected. That accurately reflects the transmitter carrier frequency remaining unchanged for all three modes. However, the TS-50S is normally configured when in CW mode for the receiver to be in USB mode, but shifted down from the displayed frequency by 0.8 kHz so that a received signal on 5357.0 kHz will produce an 800 Hz sidetone. So, the transmitter carrier frequency remains 5357.0 khz, and the receiver carrier frequency shifts down to 5356.2 kHz when mode is changed from USB to CW. > With either Elecraft or Yaesu, there is nothing complicated to figure > out - set the displayed frequency to the center channel frequency - but > with the Yaesu, one must do that AFTER setting to CW mode. With the > Elecraft gear, you can set the frequency in whichever mode you choose, > then switch to CW. But "complexity" is not the issue. Regardless of whether the receiver or transmitter is shifted to switch between USB and CW, the point here is that one will NOT be able to have his Elecraft (or any other rig) tuned to 5357.0 kHz on USB, and then simply switch mode to CW and carry on. The Elecraft, my Kenwood, and most other rigs would then transmit on 5357.0 kHz, **violating** the requirements of the new FCC rule 97.305(f) that CW signals on the 60 meter channels transmit on the channel center frequency (here 5358.5 kHz). For every ham rig currently available (including the K3), some thought will need to be exercised before transferring modes between USB and CW on the 60 meter band. It's NOT going to be only the simple and customary shift of the emission mode switch to CW...it will also require ensuring that the CW transmission takes place on the channel center frequency, 1.5 kHz above the channel carrier frequency! That's the ONLY point I've tried to show. The constraints of channelized operation are still somewhat foreign to most hams, and this particular issue arises only due to the addition of CW as a new U.S. 60m band mode. For rigs whose carrier frequency never changes with mode change, the easiest approach to add 60 meter CW capability will be by programming five channels on the specified 60m *carrier* frequencies (like 5357.0 kHz) for USB Phone, Data, and RTTY (but NEVER CW) modes, plus five frequencies on the specified 60m *center* frequencies (like 5358.5 kHz) for CW mode ONLY. I suppose it will need to be determined if there is any value, for 60m only, of enabling a shift from 5357.0 kHz USB operation to 5358.5 kHz CW operation with no operator intervention other than changing mode. Were that desired, then the rig in question would need to shift the transmitted carrier frequency from 5357.0 kHz to to 5358.5, and shift the receiver carrier frequency from 5357.0 kHz to 5357.7 kHz (if an 800 Hz sidetone pitch is desired). Such issues have never been been imposed on ham band operations, and thus represent a novelty to most. Even those familiar with MARS, CAP, SHARES, etc. have likely not dealt with such, since little or none of the operations on those outside-ham-band services use CW. FWIW, the effective date of the 60m band changes in the US is 30 days after publication of the rule changes in the Federal Register, and **NOT** 30 days after the FCC approval on 18 November 2011. Folks must take care NOT to use the new rules BEFORE they are effective, and NOT to use the old rules afterward. Anyone wishing to monitor the Federal Register for rule publication can do so at: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=FR&browsePath=2011 73, Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
John and all, On 11/20/2011 08:47 AM, John Oppenheimer wrote: > [...] > Using CW will be easy, for the first allocation, set your VFO to any > frequency within the range of 5330.6 and 5333.4 and go! There was just that argument (p. 11): "34. ARRL states that it is possible to have multiple CW and/or PSK31 communications ongoing simultaneously within the 2.8 kHz channel, so long as those simultaneous communications are not limited to the channel centers." But the prevailing one was: "36. We adopt the center frequency requirement as proposed in the NPRM. Because the amateur service operates in the 60 meter band on a secondary basis, we pay particular attention to NTIA’s position and the interests of Federal agencies that have primary status in the band." But at least there is now cw! 73, Mike ab3ap __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
As I read the text, the "shall" operative words are: "Amateur operators shall ensure that their emissions do not occupy more than 2.8 kHz centered on each of these center frequencies." This is consistent with the ruling for each ~2.8kHz wide SSB transmitted signal to be within the five 2.8kHz allocated channels. Therefore, if above is the actual CW ruling, CW is not necessarily channeled, it's more like having five 2.8kHz CW bands within the 60M allocation. There is even room for split operation. Using CW will be easy, for the first allocation, set your VFO to any frequency within the range of 5330.6 and 5333.4 and go! John KN5L __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
For those rigs with fixed memory channels on 60 m, it might make sense to use a keyed audio oscillator in SSB mode. Bob, N7XY On Nov 19, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Matthew Pitts wrote: > Don, > > You're right, for transceivers that implement the 60 meter band in the VFO; > not all compatible transceivers do. My FT-817 has 5 memory channels for 60m, > thus not much chance for me ever using the new modes on it; I guess I'll have > to add the 60m module to my K2 for that. > > Matthew Pitts > N8OHU > > Sent from my Wireless Device > > -Original Message- > From: Don Wilhelm > Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:44:41 > To: > Reply-To: d...@w3fpr.com > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues > > Mike, > > Not all transceivers shift the transmit frequency. > > The Elecraft K2 and K3 dial always indicate the carrier frequency, and > what is displayed does not change when changing modes. With Elecraft, > the pitch of signals will change when changing between CW and SSB. > > OTOH, my Yaesu transceivers do shift the displayed frequency when > changing between SSB and CW, but they shift the receiver - the display > will indicate the transmitted carrier frequency. If you were receiving > a signal in SSB mode and shift to CW, the pitch will stay the same. > > With either Elecraft or Yaesu, there is nothing complicated to figure > out - set the displayed frequency to the center channel frequency - but > with the Yaesu, one must do that AFTER setting to CW mode. With the > Elecraft gear, you can set the frequency in whichever mode you choose, > then switch to CW. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/19/2011 4:47 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: >> The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission >> mode is changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or >> the transmit frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. >> They don't shift both the effective receive AND the transmit >> frequency. For example, a transceiver tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial >> in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output when receiving a >> transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output when >> receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is >> shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 >> kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 >> kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the >> CW transmit frequency be 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably >> high side tone to any USB/CW mode receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you >> are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, anyone sending a CW signal on >> that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone boys will hear >> not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz sidetone! > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html _ N7XY DX Cluster Node - telnet to n7xy.net, port 7300 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
When the dust settles on this change, and we have some agreement on how the transceiver should handle it, we'll make any needed changes to both the K3 and KX3 firmware. I'd like to be the first to make a CW QSO on this band! 73, Wayne N6KR __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
As usual with the government and all the "ABC" agencies, there are some bureaucrats who think they "know" but really "Don't" know or have a clue. Too bad it's that way, but unfortunately, we, the end users have to roll with the punches. Hopefully no one screws up and pops the "big bubble" for all. Same thing has been going on concerning the Coast Guard and the "600 meters" allocations to be! It's like a bunch of 3rd graders in a sand box! 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Phil Kane Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 5:18 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues On 11/19/2011 12:55 PM, Sandy wrote: > If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR > problem, not ours. Maybe there will be some "simple simon" type > doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" frequency of > 8881500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. This anomaly isn't the FCC's doing - it's NTIA's doing. It's their band, their channels, and they are calling the shots. We're lucky to get any 60 meters at all. I'm intimately familiar with how that worked. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 (FCC District Director - Retired) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1872 / Virus Database: 2092/4626 - Release Date: 11/19/11 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
On 11/19/2011 12:55 PM, Sandy wrote: > If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR > problem, not ours. Maybe there will be some "simple simon" type > doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" frequency of > 8881500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. This anomaly isn't the FCC's doing - it's NTIA's doing. It's their band, their channels, and they are calling the shots. We're lucky to get any 60 meters at all. I'm intimately familiar with how that worked. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 (FCC District Director - Retired) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
You CAN do it that way...BUT.if you doBE careful. If you make a mistake it may be costly to everyone who uses the band. I'm sure they will be doing at least a "sample monitoring" session during the early days after the allocations are final. THESE ARE "CHANNELIZED" frequencies and they have a tendency to be sure you are compliant with their "rules"! They may not be, but why take a chance. It's too easy to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd imagine SOMEONE is gonna be a bit "touchy" the first few weeks after this goes into effect. If you have the memories..USE THEM! No "offense" meant by above remarks! 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Mike Harris Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:38 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues Maybe I'm missing something but isn't this what the VFO knob is for. Set the dial frequency to 5357kHz for USB, change to CW and set the dial frequency to 5358.5kHz Regards. Mike VP8NO On 19/11/2011 18:47, Mike Morrow wrote: > Sandy wrote: > >> The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't make >> ANY >> difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same >> channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode which >> will simply occupy 10 memory slots. > > The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission > mode is > changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or the transmit > frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. They don't shift > both > the effective receive AND the transmit frequency. For example, a > transceiver > tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF > output > when receiving a transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output > when > receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is > shifted > to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 kHz, while the > transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 kHz (for 800 Hz CW > sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the CW transmit frequency > be > 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably high side tone to any USB/CW > mode > receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, > anyone > sending a CW signal on that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The > phone > boys will hear not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 > Hz > sidetone! > >> If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR problem, >> not ours. > > That's got NOTHING to do with the discussion. > > The new 60m rules will mandate that a CW signal be sent 1500 Hz higher > than > the USB carrier frequency on the assigned channel! This is the FIRST > REQUIREMENT of this type in ALL of the history of ham radio. There are NO > ham rigs today that are set to implement this requirement when, while set > to > to 5357.0 kHz, the mode switch is shifted from USB to CW! > > Beyond that, since most hams will not be happy with normal use of a 1500 > Hz > sidetone on 60m, new ham rigs will also need to shift the receiver > frequency > higher than that being used for USB phone mode, in order to produce an 800 > Hz > (or so) sidetone after the mode switch is taken from USB to CW. > > So...nothing in this discussion concerns any FCC desire for a particular > receiver sidetone, but rather, additional issues that must be addressed > by ham rig designers for multi-mode 60m operation that are significantly > different than have ever been encountered. > > Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1872 / Virus Database: 2092/4626 - Release Date: 11/19/11 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Not if CONFIG: CW WGHT 5 is selected Automatic VFO offset SSB/CW. The indicated carrier frequency will vary by the amount of the selected sidetone. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 19/11/2011 19:44, Don Wilhelm wrote: > Mike, > > Not all transceivers shift the transmit frequency. > > The Elecraft K2 and K3 dial always indicate the carrier frequency, and > what is displayed does not change when changing modes. With Elecraft, > the pitch of signals will change when changing between CW and SSB. > > OTOH, my Yaesu transceivers do shift the displayed frequency when > changing between SSB and CW, but they shift the receiver - the display > will indicate the transmitted carrier frequency. If you were receiving > a signal in SSB mode and shift to CW, the pitch will stay the same. > > With either Elecraft or Yaesu, there is nothing complicated to figure > out - set the displayed frequency to the center channel frequency - but > with the Yaesu, one must do that AFTER setting to CW mode. With the > Elecraft gear, you can set the frequency in whichever mode you choose, > then switch to CW. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/19/2011 4:47 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: >> The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission >> mode is changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or >> the transmit frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. >> They don't shift both the effective receive AND the transmit >> frequency. For example, a transceiver tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial >> in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output when receiving a >> transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output when >> receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is >> shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 >> kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 >> kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the >> CW transmit frequency be 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably >> high side tone to any USB/CW mode receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you >> are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, anyone sending a CW signal on >> that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone boys will hear >> not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz sidetone! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
WHO CARES? he FCC is the entity that controls Amateur operation and they have the last word. 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Matthew Pitts Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 4:09 PM To: Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues Mike, This new requirement may not be driven entirely by the FCC; isn't 60 meters controlled by the NTIA? Maybe they are the ones that stipulated the shift in frequency; I don't know. Matthew Pitts N8OHU Sent from my Wireless Device -Original Message- From: Mike Morrow Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:47:34 To: Reply-To: Mike Morrow Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues Sandy wrote: >The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't make >ANY >difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same >channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode which >will simply occupy 10 memory slots. The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission mode is changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or the transmit frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. They don't shift both the effective receive AND the transmit frequency. For example, a transceiver tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output when receiving a transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output when receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the CW transmit frequency be 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably high side tone to any USB/CW mode receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, anyone sending a CW signal on that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone boys will hear not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz sidetone! > If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR problem, > not ours. That's got NOTHING to do with the discussion. The new 60m rules will mandate that a CW signal be sent 1500 Hz higher than the USB carrier frequency on the assigned channel! This is the FIRST REQUIREMENT of this type in ALL of the history of ham radio. There are NO ham rigs today that are set to implement this requirement when, while set to to 5357.0 kHz, the mode switch is shifted from USB to CW! Beyond that, since most hams will not be happy with normal use of a 1500 Hz sidetone on 60m, new ham rigs will also need to shift the receiver frequency higher than that being used for USB phone mode, in order to produce an 800 Hz (or so) sidetone after the mode switch is taken from USB to CW. So...nothing in this discussion concerns any FCC desire for a particular receiver sidetone, but rather, additional issues that must be addressed by ham rig designers for multi-mode 60m operation that are significantly different than have ever been encountered. Mike / KK5F Maybe there will be some "simple >simon" type doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" frequency >of >1500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. As I said >this ISN'T OUR WORRY. > >Will be nice to have a "CW" place to go that will be unmolested by >contesters on weekends! > >When is this supposed to appear in the Federal Register" anybody know? > >73, > >Sandy W5TVW > >-Original Message- >From: Mike Morrow >Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:13 PM >To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >Subject: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues > >I wrote: > >>(3) Three emission modes (CW, RTTY, Data) are authorized in addition to >>the >>existing USB mode. > >There's interesting detail about carrier versus center frequency in the >*new* >Section 97.303: > >---QUOTE--- >(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60 m band), amateur >stations >may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified in the table >below. >In order to meet this requirement, control operators of stations >transmitting >phone, data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and >60H0J2B, respectively) may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the >center >frequency as specified in the table below. For CW emissions (emission >designator >150HA1A), the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency... > > 60M BAND FREQUENCIES (KHZ) > Carrier Center > 5330.55332.0 > 5346.55348.0 > 5357.05358.5 > 5371.55373
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Don, You're right, for transceivers that implement the 60 meter band in the VFO; not all compatible transceivers do. My FT-817 has 5 memory channels for 60m, thus not much chance for me ever using the new modes on it; I guess I'll have to add the 60m module to my K2 for that. Matthew Pitts N8OHU Sent from my Wireless Device -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:44:41 To: Reply-To: d...@w3fpr.com Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues Mike, Not all transceivers shift the transmit frequency. The Elecraft K2 and K3 dial always indicate the carrier frequency, and what is displayed does not change when changing modes. With Elecraft, the pitch of signals will change when changing between CW and SSB. OTOH, my Yaesu transceivers do shift the displayed frequency when changing between SSB and CW, but they shift the receiver - the display will indicate the transmitted carrier frequency. If you were receiving a signal in SSB mode and shift to CW, the pitch will stay the same. With either Elecraft or Yaesu, there is nothing complicated to figure out - set the displayed frequency to the center channel frequency - but with the Yaesu, one must do that AFTER setting to CW mode. With the Elecraft gear, you can set the frequency in whichever mode you choose, then switch to CW. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/19/2011 4:47 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: > The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission > mode is changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or > the transmit frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. > They don't shift both the effective receive AND the transmit > frequency. For example, a transceiver tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial > in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output when receiving a > transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output when > receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is > shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 > kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 > kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the > CW transmit frequency be 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably > high side tone to any USB/CW mode receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you > are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, anyone sending a CW signal on > that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone boys will hear > not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz sidetone! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Mike, Not all transceivers shift the transmit frequency. The Elecraft K2 and K3 dial always indicate the carrier frequency, and what is displayed does not change when changing modes. With Elecraft, the pitch of signals will change when changing between CW and SSB. OTOH, my Yaesu transceivers do shift the displayed frequency when changing between SSB and CW, but they shift the receiver - the display will indicate the transmitted carrier frequency. If you were receiving a signal in SSB mode and shift to CW, the pitch will stay the same. With either Elecraft or Yaesu, there is nothing complicated to figure out - set the displayed frequency to the center channel frequency - but with the Yaesu, one must do that AFTER setting to CW mode. With the Elecraft gear, you can set the frequency in whichever mode you choose, then switch to CW. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/19/2011 4:47 PM, Mike Morrow wrote: > The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission > mode is changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or > the transmit frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. > They don't shift both the effective receive AND the transmit > frequency. For example, a transceiver tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial > in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output when receiving a > transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output when > receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is > shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 > kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 > kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the > CW transmit frequency be 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably > high side tone to any USB/CW mode receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you > are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, anyone sending a CW signal on > that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone boys will hear > not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz sidetone! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Maybe I'm missing something but isn't this what the VFO knob is for. Set the dial frequency to 5357kHz for USB, change to CW and set the dial frequency to 5358.5kHz Regards. Mike VP8NO On 19/11/2011 18:47, Mike Morrow wrote: > Sandy wrote: > >> The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't make ANY >> difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same >> channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode which >> will simply occupy 10 memory slots. > > The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission mode is > changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or the transmit > frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. They don't shift both > the effective receive AND the transmit frequency. For example, a transceiver > tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output > when receiving a transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output > when > receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is shifted > to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 kHz, while the > transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 kHz (for 800 Hz CW > sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the CW transmit frequency be > 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably high side tone to any USB/CW > mode > receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, > anyone > sending a CW signal on that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone > boys will hear not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz > sidetone! > >> If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR problem, >> not ours. > > That's got NOTHING to do with the discussion. > > The new 60m rules will mandate that a CW signal be sent 1500 Hz higher than > the USB carrier frequency on the assigned channel! This is the FIRST > REQUIREMENT of this type in ALL of the history of ham radio. There are NO > ham rigs today that are set to implement this requirement when, while set to > to 5357.0 kHz, the mode switch is shifted from USB to CW! > > Beyond that, since most hams will not be happy with normal use of a 1500 Hz > sidetone on 60m, new ham rigs will also need to shift the receiver frequency > higher than that being used for USB phone mode, in order to produce an 800 Hz > (or so) sidetone after the mode switch is taken from USB to CW. > > So...nothing in this discussion concerns any FCC desire for a particular > receiver sidetone, but rather, additional issues that must be addressed > by ham rig designers for multi-mode 60m operation that are significantly > different than have ever been encountered. > > Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
My FT-990 and my old IC-735 both indicate the "carrier" frequency emitted by the radio. In the "commercial realm" the old SSB channels were designated as to the "suppressed carrier frequency" the channels being upper sideband as given for such operation in the marine and aeronautical assignments. Sometimes "center frequency" assignments were listed but this was a constant source of confusion, so they finally listed "suppressed carrier frequency". The "regulators" is this case the FCC, want CW to use the center frequency. This was an arbitrary decision to keep CW in the center of the channel bandwidth. My YAESU FT-990 and other sets "remember" the mode and selectivity in memory as well as the carrier frequency. Therefore it is necessary to program the CW channels and USB channels as prescribed (center frequency OR carrier frequency) if you want to lesson the confusion for CW and USB assignments. Just programming ONE frequency and shifting between CW and USB modes WILL NOT CUT IT! I strongly recommend those who plan on CW and USB operation both do this! It will keep you out of trouble and keep the peace on the band better. This is one of the "minus points" of "Channelized" operation. 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Mike Morrow Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:47 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues Sandy wrote: >The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't make >ANY >difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same >channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode which >will simply occupy 10 memory slots. The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission mode is changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or the transmit frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. They don't shift both the effective receive AND the transmit frequency. For example, a transceiver tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output when receiving a transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output when receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the CW transmit frequency be 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably high side tone to any USB/CW mode receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, anyone sending a CW signal on that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone boys will hear not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz sidetone! > If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR problem, > not ours. That's got NOTHING to do with the discussion. The new 60m rules will mandate that a CW signal be sent 1500 Hz higher than the USB carrier frequency on the assigned channel! This is the FIRST REQUIREMENT of this type in ALL of the history of ham radio. There are NO ham rigs today that are set to implement this requirement when, while set to to 5357.0 kHz, the mode switch is shifted from USB to CW! Beyond that, since most hams will not be happy with normal use of a 1500 Hz sidetone on 60m, new ham rigs will also need to shift the receiver frequency higher than that being used for USB phone mode, in order to produce an 800 Hz (or so) sidetone after the mode switch is taken from USB to CW. So...nothing in this discussion concerns any FCC desire for a particular receiver sidetone, but rather, additional issues that must be addressed by ham rig designers for multi-mode 60m operation that are significantly different than have ever been encountered. Mike / KK5F Maybe there will be some "simple >simon" type doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" frequency >of >1500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. As I said >this ISN'T OUR WORRY. > >Will be nice to have a "CW" place to go that will be unmolested by >contesters on weekends! > >When is this supposed to appear in the Federal Register" anybody know? > >73, > >Sandy W5TVW > >-Original Message- >From: Mike Morrow >Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:13 PM >To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >Subject: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues > >I wrote: > >>(3) Three emission modes (CW, RTTY, Data) are authorized in addition to >>the >>existing USB mode. > >There's interesting detail about carrier versus center frequency in the >*new* >Section 97.303: > &g
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
As to frequency tolerances, I have no idea. The commercial SSB tolerances used to be around 20Hz. I don't know what it is now. There isn't anything specified in the NRPM as to tolerances and I would assume the FCC is accepting whatever the precision of the current bunch of Japanese radios type approved are at present. I would not press this issue as we are likely to end up on the short end of the stick in some technical brawl as to "what" the tolerances "should be", in all probability by "non technical" FCC types! My brain tells me to "Let the sleeping dog lie!" in this case. 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Rick Dettinger Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 3:24 PM To: Sandy Cc: Mike Morrow ; elecraft@mailman.qth.net ; TETRODE List ; Old Tube Radios Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues I am wondering what restrictions are placed on frequency accuracy? Would simple QRP rigs like the Sierra or maybe a modified K1 be suitable for operation on the 60 meter band? We are probably talking about less th at 200 Hz. deviation from the specified center frequency. Also, I don't think that the FCC engineers have randomly monitored any ham frequencies for at least two decades. We are now "self policing". 73, Rick Dettinger K7MW On Nov 19, 2011, at 12:55 PM, Sandy wrote: > The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't make > ANY > difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same > channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode which > will simply occupy 10 memory slots. If the FCC engineers want to hear a > 1.5 > khz tone, that's THEIR problem, not ours. Maybe there will be some > "simple > simon" type doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" frequency > of > 1500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. As I said > this ISN'T OUR WORRY. > > Will be nice to have a "CW" place to go that will be unmolested by > contesters on weekends! > > When is this supposed to appear in the Federal Register" anybody know? > > 73, > > Sandy W5TVW - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1872 / Virus Database: 2092/4626 - Release Date: 11/19/11 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Mike, This new requirement may not be driven entirely by the FCC; isn't 60 meters controlled by the NTIA? Maybe they are the ones that stipulated the shift in frequency; I don't know. Matthew Pitts N8OHU Sent from my Wireless Device -Original Message- From: Mike Morrow Sender: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 16:47:34 To: Reply-To: Mike Morrow Subject: Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues Sandy wrote: >The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't make ANY >difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same >channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode which >will simply occupy 10 memory slots. The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission mode is changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or the transmit frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. They don't shift both the effective receive AND the transmit frequency. For example, a transceiver tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output when receiving a transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output when receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the CW transmit frequency be 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably high side tone to any USB/CW mode receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, anyone sending a CW signal on that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone boys will hear not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz sidetone! > If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR problem, > not ours. That's got NOTHING to do with the discussion. The new 60m rules will mandate that a CW signal be sent 1500 Hz higher than the USB carrier frequency on the assigned channel! This is the FIRST REQUIREMENT of this type in ALL of the history of ham radio. There are NO ham rigs today that are set to implement this requirement when, while set to to 5357.0 kHz, the mode switch is shifted from USB to CW! Beyond that, since most hams will not be happy with normal use of a 1500 Hz sidetone on 60m, new ham rigs will also need to shift the receiver frequency higher than that being used for USB phone mode, in order to produce an 800 Hz (or so) sidetone after the mode switch is taken from USB to CW. So...nothing in this discussion concerns any FCC desire for a particular receiver sidetone, but rather, additional issues that must be addressed by ham rig designers for multi-mode 60m operation that are significantly different than have ever been encountered. Mike / KK5F Maybe there will be some "simple >simon" type doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" frequency of >1500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. As I said >this ISN'T OUR WORRY. > >Will be nice to have a "CW" place to go that will be unmolested by >contesters on weekends! > >When is this supposed to appear in the Federal Register" anybody know? > >73, > >Sandy W5TVW > >-Original Message- >From: Mike Morrow >Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:13 PM >To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >Subject: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues > >I wrote: > >>(3) Three emission modes (CW, RTTY, Data) are authorized in addition to the >>existing USB mode. > >There's interesting detail about carrier versus center frequency in the >*new* >Section 97.303: > >---QUOTE--- >(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60 m band), amateur >stations >may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified in the table >below. >In order to meet this requirement, control operators of stations >transmitting >phone, data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and >60H0J2B, respectively) may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the >center >frequency as specified in the table below. For CW emissions (emission >designator >150HA1A), the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency... > > 60M BAND FREQUENCIES (KHZ) > Carrier Center > 5330.55332.0 > 5346.55348.0 > 5357.05358.5 > 5371.55373.0 > 5403.55405.0 >---END QUOTE--- > >Note the *requirement*: "For CW emissions ... the carrier frequency is set >to >the center frequency." > >For example, switching from USB Phone on 5357.0 kHz to CW on the *same* >channel, >the transmitter must tra
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
Sandy wrote: >The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't make ANY >difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same >channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode which >will simply occupy 10 memory slots. The point to be taken is that most HAM transceivers, when the emission mode is changed from USB to CW, shift either the effective receive or the transmit frequency by the desired amount of sidetone frequency. They don't shift both the effective receive AND the transmit frequency. For example, a transceiver tuned to 5357.0 kHz on the dial in USB mode will produce a zero Hz AF output when receiving a transmitted signal of 5357.0 kHz, and a 1500 Hz AF output when receiving a transmitted signal of 5358.5 kHz. When the transceiver is shifted to CW mode, the receiver frequency typically remains 5357.0 kHz, while the transmitter frequency is shifted up to typically 5357.8 kHz (for 800 Hz CW sidetone). But the new FCC rules require that the CW transmit frequency be 5358.5 kHz, which will produce an undesirably high side tone to any USB/CW mode receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. If you are in a USB phone QSO on 5357.0 kHz, anyone sending a CW signal on that channel must do that using 5358.5 kHz. The phone boys will hear not the typically 800 Hz sidetone, but rather a high 1500 Hz sidetone! > If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR problem, > not ours. That's got NOTHING to do with the discussion. The new 60m rules will mandate that a CW signal be sent 1500 Hz higher than the USB carrier frequency on the assigned channel! This is the FIRST REQUIREMENT of this type in ALL of the history of ham radio. There are NO ham rigs today that are set to implement this requirement when, while set to to 5357.0 kHz, the mode switch is shifted from USB to CW! Beyond that, since most hams will not be happy with normal use of a 1500 Hz sidetone on 60m, new ham rigs will also need to shift the receiver frequency higher than that being used for USB phone mode, in order to produce an 800 Hz (or so) sidetone after the mode switch is taken from USB to CW. So...nothing in this discussion concerns any FCC desire for a particular receiver sidetone, but rather, additional issues that must be addressed by ham rig designers for multi-mode 60m operation that are significantly different than have ever been encountered. Mike / KK5F Maybe there will be some "simple >simon" type doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" frequency of >1500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. As I said >this ISN'T OUR WORRY. > >Will be nice to have a "CW" place to go that will be unmolested by >contesters on weekends! > >When is this supposed to appear in the Federal Register" anybody know? > >73, > >Sandy W5TVW > >-Original Message- >From: Mike Morrow >Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:13 PM >To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net >Subject: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues > >I wrote: > >>(3) Three emission modes (CW, RTTY, Data) are authorized in addition to the >>existing USB mode. > >There's interesting detail about carrier versus center frequency in the >*new* >Section 97.303: > >---QUOTE--- >(h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60 m band), amateur >stations >may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified in the table >below. >In order to meet this requirement, control operators of stations >transmitting >phone, data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and >60H0J2B, respectively) may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the >center >frequency as specified in the table below. For CW emissions (emission >designator >150HA1A), the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency... > > 60M BAND FREQUENCIES (KHZ) > Carrier Center > 5330.55332.0 > 5346.55348.0 > 5357.05358.5 > 5371.55373.0 > 5403.55405.0 >---END QUOTE--- > >Note the *requirement*: "For CW emissions ... the carrier frequency is set >to >the center frequency." > >For example, switching from USB Phone on 5357.0 kHz to CW on the *same* >channel, >the transmitter must transmit on 5358.5 kHz. That will produce a 1500 Hz >tone >in a USB receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. It appears that now a transceiver will >need to shift not only the transmitter's carrier from 5357.0 to 5358.5 kHz, >but also receiver's effective frequency up by the amount needed to produce >the >desired sidetone when tuned to a 5358.5 kHz CW signal. The wording in the >new >rule seems to introduce an unfortunate and valueless complexity for CW >operation. > >Mike / KK5F > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this e
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
I am wondering what restrictions are placed on frequency accuracy? Would simple QRP rigs like the Sierra or maybe a modified K1 be suitable for operation on the 60 meter band? We are probably talking about less that 200 Hz. deviation from the specified center frequency. Also, I don't think that the FCC engineers have randomly monitored any ham frequencies for at least two decades. We are now "self policing". 73, Rick Dettinger K7MW On Nov 19, 2011, at 12:55 PM, Sandy wrote: > The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't > make ANY > difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same > channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode > which > will simply occupy 10 memory slots. If the FCC engineers want to > hear a 1.5 > khz tone, that's THEIR problem, not ours. Maybe there will be some > "simple > simon" type doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" > frequency of > 1500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. As I > said > this ISN'T OUR WORRY. > > Will be nice to have a "CW" place to go that will be unmolested by > contesters on weekends! > > When is this supposed to appear in the Federal Register" anybody know? > > 73, > > Sandy W5TVW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues
The CW signal must be radiated on the center frequency. This won't make ANY difference except that you will have two memory settings for the same channel. One for SSB and data and RTTY modes, and one for CW mode which will simply occupy 10 memory slots. If the FCC engineers want to hear a 1.5 khz tone, that's THEIR problem, not ours. Maybe there will be some "simple simon" type doing any monitoring and he will have a "reference" frequency of 1500 hz. plus or minus what ever the "tolerances" are in PPM. As I said this ISN'T OUR WORRY. Will be nice to have a "CW" place to go that will be unmolested by contesters on weekends! When is this supposed to appear in the Federal Register" anybody know? 73, Sandy W5TVW -Original Message- From: Mike Morrow Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2011 2:13 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] US 60 Meter Band Changes Approved by FCC - CW Issues I wrote: >(3) Three emission modes (CW, RTTY, Data) are authorized in addition to the >existing USB mode. There's interesting detail about carrier versus center frequency in the *new* Section 97.303: ---QUOTE--- (h) 60 m band: (1) In the 5330.5-5406.4 kHz band (60 m band), amateur stations may transmit only on the five center frequencies specified in the table below. In order to meet this requirement, control operators of stations transmitting phone, data, and RTTY emissions (emission designators 2K80J3E, 2K80J2D, and 60H0J2B, respectively) may set the carrier frequency 1.5 kHz below the center frequency as specified in the table below. For CW emissions (emission designator 150HA1A), the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency... 60M BAND FREQUENCIES (KHZ) Carrier Center 5330.55332.0 5346.55348.0 5357.05358.5 5371.55373.0 5403.55405.0 ---END QUOTE--- Note the *requirement*: "For CW emissions ... the carrier frequency is set to the center frequency." For example, switching from USB Phone on 5357.0 kHz to CW on the *same* channel, the transmitter must transmit on 5358.5 kHz. That will produce a 1500 Hz tone in a USB receiver set to 5357.0 kHz. It appears that now a transceiver will need to shift not only the transmitter's carrier from 5357.0 to 5358.5 kHz, but also receiver's effective frequency up by the amount needed to produce the desired sidetone when tuned to a 5358.5 kHz CW signal. The wording in the new rule seems to introduce an unfortunate and valueless complexity for CW operation. Mike / KK5F __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
