Re: [ANN] Emergency bugfix release: Org mode 9.7.5

[Greg Troxel]

(Thanks for fixing and your efforts on org.  I've been an org user since
at least July of 2010.)

Just to be clear, is this the commit that needs applying to emacs
sources, 29.3, 28.x, and so on?  It seems so, but I would rather not
guess.  I'm asking on behalf of pkgsrc, where I am managing the release
process for our 2024Q2 branch, due on 30 June.  Believe it or not we
have 20, 21, 26, 27, 28, 29 and a from-git version.  While some should
be pruned, some people use it on vaxes.   Any idea how far back this
goes?

Thanks,
Greg

commit f4cc61636947b5c2f0afc67174dd369fe3277aa8
Author: Ihor Radchenko 
Date:   Tue Jun 18 13:06:44 2024 +0200

org-link-expand-abbrev: Do not evaluate arbitrary unsafe Elisp code

* lisp/ol.el (org-link-expand-abbrev): Refuse expanding %(...) link
abbrevs that specify unsafe function.  Instead, display a warning, and
do not expand the abbrev.  Clear all the text properties from the
returned link, to avoid any potential vulnerabilities caused by
properties that may contain arbitrary Elisp.

diff --git a/lisp/ol.el b/lisp/ol.el
index 7a7f4f558..8a556c7b9 100644
--- a/lisp/ol.el
+++ b/lisp/ol.el
@@ -1152,17 +1152,35 @@ Abbreviations are defined in `org-link-abbrev-alist'."
   (if (not as)
  link
(setq rpl (cdr as))
-   (cond
-((symbolp rpl) (funcall rpl tag))
-((string-match "%(\\([^)]+\\))" rpl)
- (replace-match
-  (save-match-data
-(funcall (intern-soft (match-string 1 rpl)) tag))
-  t t rpl))
-((string-match "%s" rpl) (replace-match (or tag "") t t rpl))
-((string-match "%h" rpl)
- (replace-match (url-hexify-string (or tag "")) t t rpl))
-(t (concat rpl tag)))
+;; Drop any potentially dangerous text properties like
+;; `modification-hooks' that may be used as an attack vector.
+(substring-no-properties
+(cond
+ ((symbolp rpl) (funcall rpl tag))
+ ((string-match "%(\\([^)]+\\))" rpl)
+   (let ((rpl-fun-symbol (intern-soft (match-string 1 rpl
+ ;; Using `unsafep-function' is not quite enough because
+ ;; Emacs considers functions like `genenv' safe, while
+ ;; they can potentially be used to expose private system
+ ;; data to attacker if abbreviated link is clicked.
+ (if (or (eq t (get rpl-fun-symbol 'org-link-abbrev-safe))
+ (eq t (get rpl-fun-symbol 'pure)))
+ (replace-match
+ (save-match-data
+   (funcall (intern-soft (match-string 1 rpl)) tag))
+ t t rpl)
+   (org-display-warning
+(format "Disabling unsafe link abbrev: %s
+You may mark function safe via (put '%s 'org-link-abbrev-safe t)"
+rpl (match-string 1 rpl)))
+   (setq org-link-abbrev-alist-local (delete as 
org-link-abbrev-alist-local)
+ org-link-abbrev-alist (delete as org-link-abbrev-alist))
+   link
+  )))
+ ((string-match "%s" rpl) (replace-match (or tag "") t t rpl))
+ ((string-match "%h" rpl)
+  (replace-match (url-hexify-string (or tag "")) t t rpl))
+ (t (concat rpl tag
 
 (defun org-link-open (link  arg)
   "Open a link object LINK.

Re: mobile org

[Greg Troxel]

Alex Roper  writes:

> One other thought, if your only concern with orgzly is Dropbox, you
> might consider an open source alternative such as Syncthing. I used to
> use that on my computers and phone to sync my org before moving to
> termux. By default it does use some sort of cloud locator service for
> NAT hole punching etc, but I believe you can turn that off.

I've been using orgzly, and I didn't even realize it had dropbox support
:-) Looking at f-droid, I don't see an antifeature, so I'm not sure
what's up there.

I keep my org files in git.  I use orgzly as readonly because sync/merge
is basically messy, especially since orgzly has a notion of sync from
orgzly internal to android filesystem, and then one has to sync that.
(It might work fine, but I have never tried.)

I have a clone of my org repo on a regular computer, and run syncthing
there and on the phone.  The org repo that is special for syncthing gets
updated every morning.  So whenever the phone has power and wifi
(because I set it that way), it gets a copy of the repo that is
reasonably fresh.

orgzly itself has been solid  and it is kept updated on f-droid.

It is true that syncthing has relay and discovery servers, but they can
indeed be turned off.   My understanding is that the servers run open
source code and do not have plaintext access, but I can of course see
why you don't want that, both to avoid traffic analysis and on
principle.

Re: [O] Emacs mobile org

[Greg Troxel]

Marcin Borkowski  writes:

> On 2018-09-10, at 09:46, Alan Schmitt  wrote:
>
>> I use orgzly, and it works great with syncthing https://syncthing.net/
>
> BTW, in my experience syncthing seems quite flaky.  I turn it on on both
> the coputer and my phone, but I'm not sure what to do to start syncing.
> Sometimes it just works, sometimes it doesn't (or takes a lot of time,
> I'm not sure).  Any hints?  Is it possible to make the phone start
> syncing manually?  (I'm almost sure that my problems stem from my
> incompetence, hence the question.)

There are actually some issues in android syncthing tracker about this.

my experience:

syncthing the protocol and the desktop versions works very solidly

the android version used to have an issue with timestamps, since on
android you can't (couldn't) (as a non-root user) set mod times.  I
think, but I'm not 100% sure, that there's now a sidecar cache so that
syncthing can store the mod times and have a virtual view where they are
as they should be, vs. having them at time of sync.  This has been a
non-issue for me for a long time now, but including it for completeness.

The big problem is the dreaded "run conditions".  Syncthing uses both
cpu and data, both of which are a problem on a phone.  There are
multiple modes; one is to sync only when opening the app.  The other is
to sync always, and then "sync only when charging" (means power applied
really) and "sync only on wifi".   So you can uncheck those to force it
to run, and maybe restart syncthing.   It tends to be a bit android
rom-specific how well it works.

So my advice is to go into syncthing on the phone, and if it tells you
"syncthing is configured not run, [exit] or [change settings], that's a
clue.  If not, you can look at the devices tab and see if it's
connected.  Also look at the dashboard on your desktop client.

https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing-android/issues/1193

Re: [O] Remove Org from Emacs repository?

[Greg Troxel]

Carsten Dominik  writes:

> I'd hate to see Org removed from Emacs.  It took a lot of work to get it
> in, and I believe that the vast majority of Emacs users does not install
> packages.  For a newbie to get to Emacs and to be able to open a .org file
> is a big plus.  So my vote goes toward keeping it in.

I agree.  Even though I have compiled org from git at times, and have
been using emacs since version 16 or 17 in the late 80s (I am fuzzy on
dates), I have never actually learned the package system.  I also look
at org files using the built-in emacs on mac, and various other places.

So I think emacs should continue to have a stable version of org, but
also that it should be relatively easy to install and use a newer
version from a packaging system.

(It should also be easy to use org from git, but it is; it's just
prepending to load path and I've been doing that with no issues for
years.)



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Re: [O] staging area mobile org

[Greg Troxel]

Matthew Pritchard  writes:

> The mobile org manual says to create a directory (set
> org-mobile-directory “~/Dropbox/MobileOrg”)

That is not creating it so much as configuring org to use it.

> Can I create this directory with a simple command instead of a lisp
> command?

I am not sure if the directory has to exist or not.  Probably that's
because getting an error that it does not and running mkdir is not hard
and easily forgotten.


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Re: [O] Call for an Emacs Library Developer

[Greg Troxel]

(OT about free software and android to run mobileorg, so being brief.)


Stefan Huchler <stefan.huch...@mail.de> writes:

> Greg Troxel <g...@ir.bbn.com> writes:
>
>>   https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android
>>
>> And there is a fork/rewrite which I didn't know about, but looks interesting:
>>
>>   https://github.com/wizmer/syncorg
>
> Would be neat if there would be a f-droid build, else you have to access
> somehow complicated to the apk.

True.  But it was not hard in android studio.

> btw are the android build tools and libs all opensource?

Mostly, at least the actual build tools.  Not sure about Android Studio
(IDE).  There are google proprietary libraries that are avoided in
f-droid builds, but some programs depend on them.

> [trimmed]

> I am not shure if that relates to your topic, but people should maybe
> consider for which plattform to develop makes most sense.

Certainly there is a free software ethics issue here.  But I find that
with nexus-branded devices on which you can install your own OS,
cyanogenmod (non-free firmwares, but mostly ok - but computers come with
non-free firmware built in usually) and f-droid (which really respects
software freedom), things are pretty much ok.  Compared to iOS it is
great :-)


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Re: [O] Call for an Emacs Library Developer

[Greg Troxel]

Jeff Rush  writes:

> I'm a huge fan of Org-Mode and have tried on and off to use it to sync
> tasks with Toodledo.com.  There is an Emacs library org-toodledo for
> this but it has fallen into disrepair and the author of the latest fork,
> @myuhe (Yuhei Maeda) can't be found.
>
> This module seems to be the best way forward for making the many
> tasks I maintain in org-mode available bi-directionally on my Android
> phone, using the Ultimate ToDo app (layers over Toodledo.com) and
> the Orgzly app (syncs docs and tasks (via search expr) using Dropbox).

There is also the android mobileorg app, which is actually Free Software
and doesn't require using non-Free network services and sharing your
data with third parties.  It seems to be in need of maintenance too:

  https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android

And there is a fork/rewrite which I didn't know about, but looks interesting:

  https://github.com/wizmer/syncorg


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Re: [O] How to make a non-GPL Org-mode exporter?

[Greg Troxel]

Rainer M Krug rai...@krugs.de writes:

 These packages all depend on R itself.

 So isn't this the same as in emacs / elisp? Isn't an exporter / .el file
 the same as a package in R, something which enhances the original
 product using a provided interface (the functions) but does not change
 anything in the original program (R or emacs)?

It's both the same and different.

The legal question of whether R packages are derivative works of R is
similar to the question of elisp packages that use editing primitives
are derivative works of emacs.

The social question is totally separate.  It's obvious OK in the R world
to have packages under other licenses.  In the emacs world, it's far
From obvious.


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Re: [O] How to make a non-GPL Org-mode exporter?

[Greg Troxel]

Marcin Borkowski mb...@mbork.pl writes:

 after a short discussion in a recent thread, I have a serious technical
 question.

 Assume that (for some reason) I want to write an Org-mode exporter which
 won't be GPL'd.  (Use-case: having written a few custom exporters, I'm

I will assume that you mean write and distribute.  (The GPL grants
permission to create derived works that are not distributed.)

 writing a tutorial on them, and I consider publishing a *tutorial* with
 GPL'd code a Bad Thing™.  (The idea of a programming tutorial is that
 other people can or even should reuse the code in the tutorial, right?
 And I see no reason to impose GPL on them.))

 How do I do that?  Is that even possible?  Also, is it possible to get
 an actual answer to this question without spending money on lawyers?

Generally, no, it is not really possible, and a lawyer will not give you
an answer, just an opinion about what the answer is likely to be, and
the risks of various choices on your part.  The exact boundaries of
derived works in software is not settled case law.  (Yes, I have
actually consulted with lawyers on Free Software licensing issues.)

Note that I'm a not a lawyer, and I'm certainly not yours -- and I have
no idea what jurisdiction you're in, but I'm assuming a legal system
somewhat similar to the US and Europe, with the Berne convention.

 ,
 | Your two entry points are respectively ‘org-export-define-backend’ and
 | ‘org-export-define-derived-backend’.  To grok these functions, you
 | should first have a look at ‘ox-latex.el’ (for how to define a new
 | back-end from scratch) and ‘ox-beamer.el’ (for how to derive a new
 | back-end from an existing one.
 `

 So basically you are expected to use existing GPL'd code to learn to
 write new exporters.

Learning is not a right reserved to the copyright owner.  In all
seriousness, copyright protects expression, not ideas, so learning
things from copyrighted code is fine.

 Also, the overall structure of the exporters is extremally similar.
 For instance, the :menu-entry argument of org-export-define-backend is
 almost the same for all exporters (and it should be, in order not to
 break usability!).  Should I follow such conventions, in order to
 satisfy users, or should I deliberately break it, in order to satisfy
 lawyers?

The basic problem you have is that an existing body of code and culture
of users is built around a particular license, and trying to deviate
From that is in general rude (in general; a PD example is not a bad
goal).  I suggest that you stop trying to be inflammatory, especially
incorrectly so.  It's not about satisfying lawyers -- it's about
following both the law and the norms of the Free Software commnity.

The key question is what is and what isn't a derived work.  That's more
or less a work that extends the original work, a concept born in
literature and applied to software.
 
 Also, the names of functions (like `org-latex-export-as-latex' vs
 `org-latex-export-to-latex') are similar across exporters.

Generally, there is a notion of the size of copying that is big enough
to matter.  I have not heard much support for the notion that using
similar variable names constitutes a derived work.

 Also, the docstrings of many transcoders are similar.  How am I supposed
 to write a docstring which is at the same time more or less
 comprehensive and different enough from the existing ones?

You certainly could rewrite it in your own words.

But, you ask how am I supposed to as if there is some guarantee that
you can essentially duplicate what's done but not be a derivative work.
That isn't necessarily true, and you have no right to expect it.  The
law and licenses have consequences and it's entirely possible that you
can't (legally and politely) do what you want.

The tricky part about derived works is that a program which makes many
calls into org to do something is arguably a derived work, even if you
wrote all the lines yourself, because it extends the underlying program
and is not sensible without that underyling code.

I believe that the example of using defun is different, because lisp
is something that's been implemented many times, differently.  I see a
lisp program as not being a derived work of the lisp implementation.
This is much like a C program not being a derivative work of the
operating system it runs on, because it is (or should be) coded to
POSIX.

All in all, I suspect that in practice, legally distributing a non-GPL
exporter is iffy, and so I don't see any real downside to an example
being GPL.   (Do you know of an actual situation where someone who is
going to write an exporter genuinely wants to distribute under other
terms, and has a rational basis for that desire?)

Your anger about copyright, when directed at other list members, is
highly misplaced.  This all originates from laws in various countries
and the Berne Convention.  It is those laws which prohibit you from
copying other people's creative works 

Re: [O] Org-mode exporters licensing

[Greg Troxel]

Daniele Nicolodi dani...@grinta.net writes:

 On 27/07/15 13:52, Marcin Borkowski wrote:
 I disagree.  Licensing a tutorial with GPL is a stupid thing to do.
 A tutorial may contain code which people naturally mimic (or even
 copy).  Such things should definitely be in PD.

[many excellent comments.   As a nit, to reuse another's work under the
GPL under a BSD license, you need more than them not to object; you
need their affirmative permission.   And if much of org is assigned to
the FSF, as I believe it is, that means the FSF's permission.  That's a
use of resources about something that doesn't really matter much.]

Indeed.  A major point of which Marcin seems unaware is that licensing
in a project in is more than a legal matter.  The license terms are a
declaration of intent for how the code will be shared, and people
contirbute under an expectation that those norms will be followed.

In particular, the GPL is designed to allow sharing only when the
recipients receive rights to further share (and more).  In other words,
not only is the code Free Software, but any derived works (that are
distributed) will also be Free Software.  With a BSD-style license, or
PD, derived works may or may not be Free.

Regardless of licensing, you can't make a derived work from copyrighted
code and have it be PD.   And as Daniele points out, new works being PD
only works in some jurisdictions (hence CC0).




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Re: [O] [ANN] [OT] New Android app (Orgzly)

[Greg Troxel]

Marcin Borkowski mb...@wmi.amu.edu.pl writes:

 On 2015-01-22, at 17:41, Jose E. Marchesi jema...@gnu.org wrote:

 *NOTE* It's about an app which is *not* open source (some parts of code
 will opened, see below).  If you have a problem with that, you can stop
 reading right about now...

 Please stop using the GNU mailing lists to promote proprietary software.

 It might be the case that I do not understand something.

 AFAIR, there was a recent discussion on another GNU mailing list about
 usability of Emacs under Windows.  (Maybe it was somewhere else, I'm not
 sure, then my question is theoretical.)  A few people claimed that Emacs
 under Windows is fully functional and works well.  Would this also be
 considered promoting proprietary software?

The point here is that the FSF is a charitable nonprofit which promotes
free software.  Their servers have usage guidelines:

  https://savannah.gnu.org/register/requirements.php

Basically, helping Free software to work on non-Free operating systems
is ok, as long as the non-Free OS is not the proprietary target and the
software works best (or equal) on Free systems.Supporting or
advertising non-Free software is not ok.

So the opinions of our hosts are pretty clear.



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Re: [O] [ANN] [OT] New Android app (Orgzly)

[Greg Troxel]

Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

 The point here is that the FSF is a charitable nonprofit which promotes
 free software.  Their servers have usage guidelines:

   https://savannah.gnu.org/register/requirements.php

 Basically, helping Free software to work on non-Free operating systems
 is ok, as long as the non-Free OS is not the proprietary target and the

sorry, primary target.  excess ranting leads to word errors :-)

 software works best (or equal) on Free systems.Supporting or
 advertising non-Free software is not ok.

 So the opinions of our hosts are pretty clear.



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Re: [O] exporter bindings in agenda

[Greg Troxel]

Bastien b...@gnu.org writes:

 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

 My proposal is that C-c C-e should behave similarly to when in an org
 file, but choices that require an associated org file should be omitted.
 Specifically, I think the following options make sense:
   c c (ical combined)
   c a (ical all)
   P x (publish - choose project)
   P a (publish - all projects

 I'm reluctant to do this because then C-c C-e would mean something
 very limited in agenda mode compared to what it means in Org mode.

It would be limited, but it would essentially be the subset that anyone
who understood might expect to work.  I expected to be able to do the
ical combined export from agenda, because the combined ical export isn't
about any particular org file, and in the agenda I'm in org context.
Specifically, I did C-C a a to see the agenda, and then tried C-c C-e c
c, to freshen my exported calendar daily.  (I should just write a batch
file to do the calendar export after finding one of my files.)

 What I would find natural though is to have a write to Org and
 export mechanism: something that would write the current agenda view
 to an Org file and export this Org file.

That seems like a reasonable thing to have, but it seems entirely separate.

 I think C-c C-e would be good for this.

That would be ok, but the bindings should not overlap the org file
bindings.   Or, the single file bindings could apply to the agenda, and
the combined to all.  I think that would be intuitive to most.

I think what this comes down to is that within org users there are those
who have really internalized the rules/bindings and thus think of agenda
and org file as clearly different, and those who see them as subsets of
org and expect common behavior when it makes sense, realizing that some
things do and don't make sense given context.  I realize many
keybindings are different, and have no problem with that.  But I don't
see why I can't do the combined export, which is almost as appropriate
(org_context + 0/N) as in any one file (org_context + 1/N).  It's
arguably more appropriate as the agenda is about the union of org files
rather than one.

But I can deal or change my own bindings, so the question is really
about what the ensemble of current and future users will find more
intuitive.

Thanks for thinking about this.

Greg


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Re: [O] Keeping up to date

[Greg Troxel]

Peter Davis p...@pfdstudio.com writes:

 A while ago, I switched from ELPA to Git as my Org-mode
 source. However, I now have three Macs I'm trying to keep in sync, and
 doing Git updates is definitely more labor intensive. Any suggestions
 for good ways to keep three machines all up-to-date with Emacs and
 Org?

I use git to obtain org mode.  For me, the tricky part is choosing which
branch and when to update.  Actually doing git update is easy.   So
I'd recommend:

  set core.logallrefupdates = true on all git repos

  on a well-connected server machine, clone the official repo, and
  checkout maint.

  on other machines, clone the first.

  when you want to update, create a tag 'stable-mmdd' on the main
  machine.  update and ff-merge to the latest maint.  Test.

  If you have issues, git reset --hard stable-mmdd.

  If you're happy, git remote update/merge (pull) on the others.

That's basically what I do.  I find the real work is resolving any issues
From the update and deciding if it's safe.  I used to follow master, not
maint, so it was probably scarier there.

 I suppose the best thing would be to put all my emacs stuff in a
 Dropbox folder and run from that, but I haven't managed to overcome
 the inertia to get that working.

Do you mean your .org files or the sources for org?  I don't see how git
is unsuitable for the get sources part.  I use it for .org files too
(separate repo of course), and have a script to autocommit/push every
morning on the main machine I edit on.   One could use a distributed
filesystem instead; I haven't tried the owncloud client (and wouldn't
want to put any bits with confidentiality needs on dropbox).



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Re: [O] observations on updating to recent org

[Greg Troxel]

Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com writes:

 Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com writes:

 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

 I didn't try to turn this on.  My icalendar-relevant settings are

   (setq org-icalendar-alarm-time 10)
   (setq org-icalendar-use-scheduled nil)
   (setq org-icalendar-use-deadline nil)

 I am trying to get ics entries only for headlines with active
 timestamps.

 It is a bug then. I'll look into it in a few hours.

 This should be fixed. Thank you for the report.

Thanks for the quick fix.  export now behaves correctly, and it takes
only 5s, which is way faster than 90!



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[O] exporter bindings in agenda

[Greg Troxel]

I use org relatively normally, with notes, TODO items, and appointments
(active timestamps), and way too many of them scheduled to be done on
any given day.  I export all agenda files to a combined ics file and
then stick it someplace I can subscribe to it from non-emacs calendaring
software.

To do this, I first invoke the agenda (because I want to see that too),
and then, because C-c C-e is not bound in the agenda view, pick a random
item and hit return, and then C-c C-e c c to export.

I realize there is C-x C-w in the agenda, but that does something else
-- only exporting the items in the current agenda view.

So, I'd like to suggest having the export key bindings work in the
agenda buffer.   The problem is that many of them do not make sense
because there is not a single org file associated with the agenda.

My proposal is that C-c C-e should behave similarly to when in an org
file, but choices that require an associated org file should be omitted.
Specifically, I think the following options make sense:
  c c (ical combined)
  c a (ical all)
  P x (publish - choose project)
  P a (publish - all projects

One could omit P, because publishing and agendas are disconnected,  But
I don't see the harm in it working if someone types it; it's not like
they are likely to have meant something else.


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Re: [O] observations on updating to recent org

[Greg Troxel]

Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

   Exporting to ical as a single file took a really long time, perhaps a
   whole minute, whereas it used to take a second to a few seconds.  The
   resulting export did seem ok.

I timed this.  With 6161 lines in 14 org-mode files (about 2175 of which
are due to PROPERTIES/ID/END), doing a combined export took 88s of cpu
time.   emacs-23.4.1, NetBSD 6, i386, plenty of RAM, Core i5 2.9 GHz.
In contrast, starting up emacs and generating the agenda took 0.97s.

I noticed that TODO entries got exported multiple times, apparently once
for each inactive timestamp.  (I realize I need to prepare a minimal
example.)

   I used to get an ID PROPERTIES entries for nodes that were exported to the
   calendar, which was basically nodes that had an active timestamp.
   But now I had a huge number of changes, adding ID to every node, even
   those with no real content and just children.  Is this a feature?

Thanks for the comments; I see the point that this is hard..  For now,
I've just turned off uid storing, because I don't sync the exported
calendar, and I'll nuke the ID entries and properties drawers at some
point; I find them distracting when editing.

I wonder if there's some way to go back and store the UID when it
actually needs to be generated, so that UIDs are only stored for entries
that actually have been exported.  I only want to export appointments,
by which I mean entries with active timestamps, which are pretty few in
number compared to nodes.

Greg


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Re: [O] observations on updating to recent org

[Greg Troxel]

Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com writes:

 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

 I timed this.  With 6161 lines in 14 org-mode files (about 2175 of which
 are due to PROPERTIES/ID/END), doing a combined export took 88s of cpu
 time.   emacs-23.4.1, NetBSD 6, i386, plenty of RAM, Core i5 2.9 GHz.
 In contrast, starting up emacs and generating the agenda took 0.97s.

 You may want to use ELP to instrument Org and report where most time is
 spent.

OK - will try to do that.

 I noticed that TODO entries got exported multiple times, apparently once
 for each inactive timestamp.  (I realize I need to prepare a minimal
 example.)

 This is to be expected. Each plain timestamp defines a new VEVENT block.

I guess that's an interesting question about what makes sense.   Here's
the actual todo entry, with just a few words redacted.  I don't see why
someone would want VEVENTS for this kind of history, but I suppose maybe
that's what you get when you turn on events from inactive timestamps.

  * TODO [#C] order more [redacted]
SCHEDULED: 2014-04-28 Mon .+4w
- State DONE   from TODO   [2013-11-07 Thu 10:30]
- State DONE   from TODO   [2013-08-05 Mon 16:27]
- State DONE   from WAITING[2013-06-04 Tue 10:27]
- State WAITINGfrom TODO   [2013-05-28 Tue 11:19] \\
  ordered via [redacted]
- State DONE   from TODO   [2013-03-25 Mon 23:16]
  laura did
- State DONE   from WAITING[2013-01-08 Tue 11:49]
- State WAITINGfrom TODO   [2012-12-18 Tue 20:41] \\
  ordered
- State TODO   from WAITING[2012-09-20 Thu 13:05]
- State WAITINGfrom TODO   [2012-09-13 Thu 10:01] \\
  ordered
- State DONE   from TODO   [2012-07-12 Thu 10:39]
- State DONE   from TODO   [2012-06-04 Mon 14:22]
- State DONE   from TODO   [2012-03-27 Tue 08:54]
- State DONE   from TODO   [2011-10-01 Sat 08:10]
:PROPERTIES:
:ID:   b617c8e4-c8f2-11e0-8735-000476353fb4
:LAST_REPEAT: [2013-11-07 Thu 10:30]
:END:

 By default, it shouldn't do this for inactive timestamps, though. See
 `org-icalendar-with-timestamps'.

I didn't try to turn this on.  My icalendar-relevant settings are

  (setq org-icalendar-alarm-time 10)
  (setq org-icalendar-use-scheduled nil)
  (setq org-icalendar-use-deadline nil)

I am trying to get ics entries only for headlines with active timestamps.

 Thanks for the comments; I see the point that this is hard..  For now,
 I've just turned off uid storing, because I don't sync the exported
 calendar, and I'll nuke the ID entries and properties drawers at some
 point; I find them distracting when editing.

 Note that UID storing is off by default.

Yes - I had it turned on intentionally from long ago.

 I wonder if there's some way to go back and store the UID when it
 actually needs to be generated, so that UIDs are only stored for entries
 that actually have been exported.

 This is not really possible without some sacrifices (which Bastien may
 or may not want to do).  See other messages in this thread.

I did see them, but I guess I just don't understand enough for this to
make sense.  That's ok - please don't try harder to explain to me :-)

 Also, since you don't need UID anyway, why is that a problem anymore?
 I'm a bit confused here.

It's not a problem for me any more.  It just seems really unfortunate
for others in the general case to have extra content in every headline
when it isn't necessary.



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[O] observations on updating to recent org

[Greg Troxel]

I use org for the usual notes-to-self and TODO - nothing super fancy.  I
had been running from master of the git repo, but in 2013-01 stopped
updating, probably because I had some issue.  The recent release
provoked me to try again, and this note reports some issues.

I had been running (for no really good reason)
  commit 3a1c27060792fc095435efcaf270a6207d5d8d27
  Author: Bastien Guerry b...@altern.org
  Date:   Mon Jan 7 00:25:58 2013 +0100
and just updated to the head of maint:
  commit 1fa6ccab10c9f97dc9317f9c3eedea82c4cdc357
  Author: Bastien Guerry b...@altern.org
  Date:   Tue Apr 22 15:24:14 2014 +0200
which is just a docstring fix past release_8.2.6.

I then did an org-mobile-push, and that was as fast as I remembered.

I noticed two things:

  Exporting to ical as a single file took a really long time, perhaps a
  whole minute, whereas it used to take a second to a few seconds.  The
  resulting export did seem ok.

  I used to get an ID PROPERTIES entries for nodes that were exported to the
  calendar, which was basically nodes that had an active timestamp.
  But now I had a huge number of changes, adding ID to every node, even
  those with no real content and just children.  Is this a feature?



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Re: [O] Fast Access to TODO States without C-t

[Greg Troxel]

Esben Stien b...@esben-stien.name writes:

 I'm trying to figure out how to bind fast access to TODO states, without
 using C-t.

 The reason is that I have C-t as escape code for my screen session.

This isn't what you asked, but I would suggest changing your escape key
and perhaps using tmux instead of screen.  Surely screen has way to send
the escape key, but you may need to configure it.

I thought for a long time about escape keys.  screen defaults to C-a and
tmux to C-b.  As an emacs user, I use both of those quite a lot.  So I
went through all the rest of the control characters, and found the one
that I have the least use for to be C-j.  And then I set tmux so that
C-j C-j sends a single C-j to the terminal session.  The only time I
need to type this is when searching for strings that contain newlines,
which is a once/day kind of thing for me.

I also switched from screen to tmux, initially for no good reason (the
cool kids were using tmux, and they all said they liked it better), but
I've been using more and more of it and find very little to complain
about.

Here's my .tmux.conf to set the prefix to C-j: 


unbind-key C-b
bind-key C-j send-prefix
set-option -g prefix C-j




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Re: [O] [RFC] Proposal for rebindings in Org 8.3

[Greg Troxel]

Bastien b...@gnu.org writes:

 | Key   | Command   | Proposal | Status |
 |---+---+--+|
 | C-c # | Checkboxes| C-c x| Free   |
 | C-c ~ | Cooperation   | C-c C-~  | Free   |
 | C-c , | Priorities| C-c C-,  | Free   |
 | C-c ? | Editing and debugging formulas| C-c C-?  | Free   |
 | C-c ! | Creating timestamps   | C-c C-!  | Free   |

I tried C-c C-! in my environment, and it fails, no noticing the C-!
(which involves shift) keypress (with ^H k; I get it that this is
proposed).  I have C-1 bound in my window manager to switch desktops,
since that binding doesn't take away the ability to generate any ASCII
character.

I'm running emacs -nw under tmux on one machine (netbsd), connected
via ssh from a mac using Terminal.

While one can argue that various emulations are broken, org should be
fully usable with a 7-bit terminal connection, and non-kludgy with an
8-bit connection.  In general, I find that emacs works fine with that,
although one has to prefix with ESC instead of the meta key.

I've always been bothered by keybindings like C-S-left, which while
useful, cause there to be no available keystroke sequence to perform the
function.

I find this surprising; I'd expect within emacs/org culture there to be
more people using terminal-mode emacs.


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Re: [O] [RFC] Move ox-koma-letter into core?

[Greg Troxel]

Viktor Rosenfeld listuse...@gmail.com writes:

 FWIW, I think that the copyright assignment process creates a huge
 barrier of entry to contribute to Orgmode and that it's unfortunate
 that one has to jump through hoops like this to contribute actual code
 (whereas other contributions, e.g., documentation, have no such
 obligation attached).

 Also, my view of the document, as I understand it, is that it's very
 one-sided and unfair to the developer, specifically the future works
 and indemnification clauses. For the record, I will not sign a
 document containing the indemnification clause as it currently stands.

I agree that the assignment process is a big barrier; it's personally
kept me from starting down the path to contributing to several projects.
In particular indemnification is problematic.

But, org-mode is the tail, and it's unlikely emacs will decide to stop
requiring assignment because of anyone here.


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Re: [O] [babel] how to pass data to gnuplot from another block

[Greg Troxel]

Eric Schulte schulte.e...@gmail.com writes:

 Just an fyi: I had to set org-babel-sh-command to bash for this to
 work. Why is sh the default value of this variable?


 I think sh is more portable, but I guess almost any system should have
 bash as well, I've just changed this default to bash.

(Assuming you mean that you changed the default in the org sources, not
in your config files.)

Please don't, at least without discussion of the consequences of adding
a dependency that is beyond POSIX..  sh is specified by posix, and bash
is a) sometimes not present and b) behaves differently than as specified
by POSIX, leading people to write nonportable code.

If someone wants to run bash explicitly, it makes sense to have a bash
language block that they can use.  But the sh language block should be
sh.   The real point is that bash is a different language.


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Re: [O] [babel] how to pass data to gnuplot from another block

[Greg Troxel]

Eric Schulte schulte.e...@gmail.com writes:

 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

 Eric Schulte schulte.e...@gmail.com writes:

 Just an fyi: I had to set org-babel-sh-command to bash for this to
 work. Why is sh the default value of this variable?

 I think sh is more portable, but I guess almost any system should have
 bash as well, I've just changed this default to bash.

 (Assuming you mean that you changed the default in the org sources, not
 in your config files.)

 Please don't, at least without discussion of the consequences of adding
 a dependency that is beyond POSIX..  sh is specified by posix, and bash
 is a) sometimes not present and b) behaves differently than as specified
 by POSIX, leading people to write nonportable code.

 If someone wants to run bash explicitly, it makes sense to have a bash
 language block that they can use.  But the sh language block should be
 sh.   The real point is that bash is a different language.

 I understand your point, but in reality I doubt there are many systems
 on which people use Org-mode with code blocks and on which sh is
 available but no bash is installed.

That may be true on some flavors of Linux, but on BSDs:

  bash is not the normal shell (and is not part of the base system, at
  least on NetBSD, and I think that's still true on the others).  When
  it does exist it's not in /bin.
  
  It's not so odd to have a system without bash.

I am also under the impression that Debian does not use bash as the
/bin/sh.

org, like anything else, should be OS-agnostic, and follow open
standards whenever that's at all reasonable.

 Bash is the new normal shell and I would argue is what most users expect
 from a shell code block.

I find that pretty astounding.  In a block labeled sh it is obvious that
a shell conforming to the POSIX sh standard is expected, and it's not so
different from a file with #!/bin/sh.  Users who expect bash in a
block labeled sh are wrong, although I agree that many people have been
misled this way by the culture of using test == in a file that starts
#!/bin/sh.

The real issue is that org files that actually expect bash (test ==,
etc.)  become nonportable to other environments.  If someone is writing
a script and not intending to use beyond-posix features, it's harmful to
let them work (in cases where they are published).

  E.g., the default value of `shell-file-name' used by M-x shell is
 /bin/bash.

I just checked on my system (NetBSD 6 i386, emacs 23.4.1), and
shell-file-name is documented to inherit from SHELL if present, which it
does.  It's /bin/sh if SHELL is unset, which complies with the
documentation:

  *File name to load inferior shells from.
  Initialized from the SHELL environment variable, or to a system-dependent
  default if SHELL is not set.

which doesn't promise bash (or even a Bourne-style shell!).  (The emacs
package doesn't depend on the bash package.)  But shell-file-name is
about giving the user of emacs their shell, not using a particular
programming language, so this fuzz is fine.

 It is possible to explicitly set shell code blocks to use sh.

Sure, but that wasn't my point; it's the encouragement of nonportability
that is problematic.

I should point out that I'm not a bash hater --- I actually use it as my
interactive shell, and have done so since around 1990.  But I don't
write scripts in it.

Greg


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Re: [O] [babel] how to pass data to gnuplot from another block

[Greg Troxel]

Eric Schulte schulte.e...@gmail.com writes:

 Although purely semantically, in my opinion the sh in #+begin_src sh
 indicates generic shell-script, not the POSIX sh.  E.g., there is no
 ob-bash.el or ob-csh.el.

I see your point.  But stepping back, I have always felt that
#+begin_src foo referred to a language, sometimes where that language
and a particular program are inseparable (e.g. gnuplot).  But sh is a
first-class language.

 See the first line in ob-sh.el,
 ,
 | ;;; ob-sh.el --- org-babel functions for shell evaluation
 `

Sure, but that's just repeated the ambiguity :-)

 And this is where we disagree.  Sh code blocks don't currently promise
 POSIX sh, they promise a shell.  This is certainly a much more dangerous
 generalization than say Perl code blocks possibly using Perl 5 or 6.

For shell, I see that there are two concepts to detangle:

  a shell is a particular command interpreter, particularly useful for
  humans

  there are multiple shell languages, but far fewer than the number of
  interpreters.


For languages, I see

   POSIX sh
   the bash flavor of POSIX sh
   csh

While bash and POSIX sh are close, csh isn't at all close, and is only
similar in that people also use it for a shell.


In an org document, I think it's better if the result depends less on
variables not set in the document.   So a code block in a document is
really written in some language.  And it therefore makes sense to
specify that in the begin_src wrapper.

I don't see that there is any call for csh, as the received wisdom is
that one shouldn't write scripts in it (at least in modern times).  (It
was originally a BSD thing, and BSD culture is very much POSIX sh now.)

So separately from how the lisp works, I would favor

  #+begin_src sh # posix sh
  #+begin_src bash   # bash (leaving version ambiguous??)
  #+begin_src csh # csh, but not sure there's a need


 How about the following resolution?  We rename ob-sh.el to ob-shell.el.
 New shell code blocks could use the value of the
 `org-babel-sh-command' environment variable.  Then sh, bash, zsh, csh,
 ash, dash (am I missing any other common ones) use the specific shell
 specified.

Are you aware of any significant use of zsh scripts?  I see that as
POSIX sh, with spiffy user-facing features.
 In the mean time, I don't believe the change in default value for
 `org-babel-sh-command' has been included in any maintenance releases, so
 I've just reverted this to minimize any further confusion.

Thanks.  It's good to be having the larger discussion first.

 And I should say that I've argued the same point your making myself in
 the past (on a project making the much more serious error of using bash
 notation  in a shell script starting with #!/bin/sh).  I think we
 only disagree on the current meaning of sh in code blocks, which
 hopefully the suggestion above will rectify.

I forgot about , even though I type it all the time interactively
but I'm pretty careful in scripts :-)

Thanks,
Greg


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Re: [O] [PATCH] org-contacts: Implement a way to ignore certain new addresses

[Greg Troxel]

Frank Terbeck f...@bewatermyfriend.org writes:

   (add-to-list 'org-contacts-new-address-ignore
notifications@github\\.com)

Amusingly I filed a bug with github, saying that they should not emit
mail with a person's name and an email address that does not belong to
the person.  They acknowleged that it would be better not to do this,
but it didn't seem likely to get fixed.

Another useful feature would be to add a property to a person's record
that other names and email addresses shouldn't get picked up.  This
would be sort of like ignoring
  Fred Foonly notificati...@github.com
based on that email address being used in a flaky manner,
and instead ignore
  Fred Foonly nore...@massmail.bigcompany.com
based on Fred being marked as having odd sending addresses, and
  Benefits Update foo...@bigcompany.com
based on foo...@bigcompany.com being marked as having odd full-name
parts.



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Re: [O] mobileorg encryption in iOS vs. Android

[Greg Troxel]

It seems that the android version should act like the ios version and
just use the symmetric cipher.  Is that hard, or is there some advantage
to the gpg scheme?   Or perhaps the android-style encryption should be
supported directly in org?




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Re: [O] mobileorg encryption in iOS vs. Android

[Greg Troxel]

John Hendy jw.he...@gmail.com writes:

 Does this make sense? If so, this is my reasoning for thinking the
 change has to be on the org side. Alternatively, an openssl decryption
 method could be integrated into mobileorg Android.

What I meant was that it would be nice if there were a single scheme to
encrypt org files, and all mobile clients implemented it.  The use of
openssl by ios mobileorg seems reasonable, and I don't know why android
mobileorg doesn't use the same scheme.  But if android mobileorg uses
APG, then it seems that there should be elisp support to encrypt the
files and put them in place.

Is the use of APG for symmetric encryption, or is there a phone/org
pubkey involved?




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Re: [O] mobileorg and encryption

[Greg Troxel]

John Hendy jw.he...@gmail.com writes:

 I installed android privacy guard on the phone, and can verify that
 staged files are encrypted... but I don't see how to decrypt in the
 app. The documentation states
 (https://github.com/matburt/mobileorg-android/wiki):
 -
 Decrypting encrypted org files via integration with Android Privacy
 Guard. Encrypted files must end in one of three file extensions: gpg,
 enc, or pgp.

Not what you asked, but in the iphone client, the files are encrypted
in place with the same name, with no Gnupg/etc. used.
It seems the android version is different, and I would think one would
need to specify the flavor on the emacs side.


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Re: [O] iOS MobileOrg transition updates

[Greg Troxel]

Kyle Sexton k...@mocker.org writes:

 ** App Store
 A new version of the application has been published on iTunes connect
 and is awaiting Apple's review before being added to the Apple
 store.

 Because of encryption export laws, the feature to do encryption
 on org files has been *removed* until I can get the application
 registered with the government, don't update if you utilize this
 feature.  There is also a warning about this removal in the
 description of the application.

Thanks for being careful about warning people.   Presumably the result
would be unreadable files on the phone, not a loss of confidentiality,

 ** Documentation for MobileOrg
 Confluence is an easy to use wiki system that we have been granted an
 open-source license for, but users may prefer something based on Worg
 for maintaining information.  Any preference which direction I should
 build the website?

Note that I am not likely to do anything useful either way.

In general, I oppose using proprietary tools to maintain open-source
projects.  So I would avoid Confluence, if i followed your description.



I'd like to see 2-way calendar sync from org to caldav, but that's not
really about org-mobile.


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Re: [O] bulk rescheduling change?

[Greg Troxel]

Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes:

 Bastien b...@altern.org wrote:

 Hi Nick,
 
 Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes:
 
  Well, the non-interactiveness and the next day are because the four
  items I marked were the last four items for that date, so after marking
  them, the cursor happened to be on the date line for the next day, which
  apparently is taken as an indication that I want things to be
  rescheduled for that date, no questions asked. Not sure I like this
  much.
 
 This implementation was to mimick the previous behavior we had with 
 `k m' (to mark an entry) then `k s' (to schedule it to the date at 
 point with no prompt.)
 
 I don't like having no prompt here too.  
 
 I just changed the behavior so that there is *always* a prompt 
 with `m m m B s' -- if the cursor is on a date, this date is the
 default time for the prompt, RET will reschedule to this date.
 

 Thanks - this sounds much better. I hope Greg likes it too.
 I ran a bunch of things past it and it worked perfectly (imo of course).

Yes, I have updated and the new behavior seems sensible and intuitive.
There's a default shown, but if I type anything it's ignored.  Thanks
for fixing this.


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[O] bulk rescheduling change?

[Greg Troxel]

I'm running from git, updating every few weeks, currently on

  commit c276eeebeecba23913547f62cf4b8122f0e8efa9
  Author: Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com
  Date:   Wed Sep 5 03:33:16 2012 +0530

(that commit is surely not relevant to my question...).

I often hope to get more done than I do, so I'm often faced with pushing
scheduled items forward.  I typically do this from the agenda view, with
'C-c C-s' for individual items, and markings and 'B s' for groups of
items (typically, saturday-type items to a week later).  I find that
with individual rescheduling, I get a prompt that has no prefilled text,
and can easily type '+1cr', or 'satcr'.  'B s' used to behave this
way, but now the prompt is prefilled with '2012-09-12 Wed', and I have
to delete that.  This seems like a misfeature, because at least for me
bulk-reschedulign to today is not the dominant case, and if it were . is
easy to type anwyay.  The info file doesn't explain this.


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Re: [O] bulk rescheduling change?

[Greg Troxel]

Nick Dokos nicholas.do...@hp.com writes:

 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote:

 
 I'm running from git, updating every few weeks, currently on
 
   commit c276eeebeecba23913547f62cf4b8122f0e8efa9
   Author: Jambunathan K kjambunat...@gmail.com
   Date:   Wed Sep 5 03:33:16 2012 +0530
 
 (that commit is surely not relevant to my question...).
 
 I often hope to get more done than I do, so I'm often faced with pushing
 scheduled items forward.  I typically do this from the agenda view, with
 'C-c C-s' for individual items, and markings and 'B s' for groups of
 items (typically, saturday-type items to a week later).  I find that
 with individual rescheduling, I get a prompt that has no prefilled text,
 and can easily type '+1cr', or 'satcr'.  'B s' used to behave this
 way, but now the prompt is prefilled with '2012-09-12 Wed', and I have
 to delete that.  This seems like a misfeature, because at least for me
 bulk-reschedulign to today is not the dominant case, and if it were . is
 easy to type anwyay.  The info file doesn't explain this.

 It *should* be the case that you shouldn't have to delete the default:
 just select a date from the calendar or type +2 or type a date and it
 should take that. But in my (rather hastily done) experiment, it
 seemed to ignore any such and in fact, when I tried to reschedule
 again the bunch of things that it rescheduled for today, it would not
 even stop and let me enter anything.

I should have pointed out that I'm running emacs 23.4 inside an xterm.


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Re: [O] org-mobile : security

[Greg Troxel]

Richard Riley rile...@gmail.com writes:

 org-mobile allows you to use some form of encryption when pushing to the
 MobileOrg directory. Encrypts and works fine. The issue is that the
 mobile app has a password setting to unencrypt but there is no
 protection on the app itelf meaning anyone can read the org files from
 thje mobileorg app itself kind of defeating the object since dropbox has
 its own encrption based on id/pasword anyway.

Please explain your threat model :-)

Seriously, the fact that the org files are available on the phone does
not seem any scarier than one's email being available on the phone.

I am boggled that you think anything about dropbox security is ok.   In
my view, the whole point of org-mobile encryption is to put ciphertext
only on the webdav server used to transfer between emacs and phone, so
that the webdav server does not need to be trusted for confidentiality.
It seems unwise to trust dropbox, given the lack of clarity around access
to plaintext by dropbox staff, and encryption lets one comfortably use a
shared web server whose admins are not cleared to see the private org data.

 I realise I can encrypt
 org entries myself (I do) using gpg keys but since there is no built in
 gpg decryption facility in mobileorg thats hard work (you need to copy
 the encrypted entries to oPenGPG which does feature app pin protection and
 holds my secret key (which needs a password too)).

 Is there a way to protect the mobileorg app? Or do I need to manually remove
 the password from the mobileorg settings each time?

It seems like perhaps you want a phone-wide confidentiality solution.



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Re: [O] [PATCH] Add section describing prerequisites.

[Greg Troxel]

Bastien b...@gnu.org writes:

   http://orgmode.org/w/?p=org-mode.git;a=commit;h=0103d1

 I don't want to update the README file each time a new version of 
 GNU Make is released and known to work.

Understood - what I meant was to have the oldest version that was
needed, but I suspect that while org needs GNU make, anything from the
last 5 years is ok, so it's not important.

 Begin to list the versions of emacs that org can work with.  (It seems
 clear taht some versions of XEmacs work, but I couldn't find out
 which.)

 Stating that Emacs is needed to an Emacs library is pretty obvious.

agreed, but

 Listing the oldest Emacs and XEmacs versions is more useful, but we
 need to be more precise: can someone tell me what is the oldest Emacs
 version the current master is running fine with?  Same for XEmacs?

yes, proking that knowledge was my intent.


Thanks for adjusting the docs.
Greg


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Re: [O] makefile regression

[Greg Troxel]

I don't really object to using GNU make; enough things require it
(probably emacs does too) that it's already installed.  It's more that
anyone using a makefile will use gnu make isn't a valid assumption,
especially when the documentation says type make.

  At the very start of my Makefile branch I stated that I will use GNU
  make since the old make file already used some GNU make features.  This
  will be documented when it gets released.  Using GNU make features
  helped to keep things a bit more maintenance friendly, but before other
  things, I have a reliable documentation of what it is supposed to do and
  can be reasonably sure that it actually does that across a range of
  platforms.

It seems easy enough to document the requirement in README in the
sources, where programs traditonally list their prerequisites; I looked
there and in the usual other files and found no such requirement
explained.  I don't understand why it makes sense to defer adjusting the
source to explain what's needed until its tagged, but maybe you don't
mean that.

Separately, that would be a good place to explain what version of emacs
are supported.  I am running 24 and thus not running into too new/old,
but I now realize that's an obvious question the answer to which my
attempt to find out if the requirement to use GNU Make was documented
should have led me across.

   This seems unfortunate; I don't understand why building org has to be so
   complicated.  If it is complicated, it seems best to use
   autoconf/automake, which already have worked out most of the portability
   issues.

  Please, let's not go there.  I will implement a facility to build an
  in-place orgmode without any support from make at all.  It appears that
  this would be enough for your use-case, but I'd still still suggest to
  use GNU make.

I did use GNU make.   My reaction was not to GNU make, but that it
wasn't obvious in a minute or two what all the makefile complexity was
for.

   (I haven't seen any discussion, but I confess to not quite keeping up
   with with emacs-orgmode traffic.)

  It seems a better idea to stay on maint rather than on master then.

By not quite keeping up I mean that I scan all the subject lines and
read some things.  Almost all if not all of my problems on master over
the last few years have been running into real bugs.


Thanks,
Greg


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[O] [PATCH] Add section describing prerequisites.

[Greg Troxel]

Note that building org requires GNU make, and that 3.82 is known to
work.

Begin to list the versions of emacs that org can work with.  (It seems
clear taht some versions of XEmacs work, but I couldn't find out
which.)
---
 README |   13 +
 1 file changed, 13 insertions(+)

diff --git a/README b/README
index 6fcddb9..5fee08e 100644
--- a/README
+++ b/README
@@ -40,3 +40,16 @@ request-assign-future.txt
 
 EXPERIMENTAL
 Experimental code, not necessarily FSF copyright.
+
+
+
+Prerequisites for building and using org:
+
+ - GNU make.  Version 3.82 is known to work, but earlier versions are
+   likely ok.
+
+ - emacs, one of
+ GNU emacs 22
+ GNU emacs 23
+ GNU emacs (what will be 24)
+ ?
-- 
1.7.10.2

Re: [O] makefile regression

[Greg Troxel]

Achim Gratz strom...@nexgo.de writes:

 Could you please state clearly what you want to have changed and
 possibly how?  You keep wandering back and forth in your arguments, but

What I meant was:

  If GNU make is required it needs to be documented.

  Separately from that, the makefiles look much more complicated than I
  would have thought necessary, and if there aren't good reasons to
  require more than POSIX make, it would be nice to stay with POSIX.

 to me it seems simply adding a sentence or two to the README file about
 the need for GNU make would suffice until the full documentation is
 finished.  I'm sure Bastien would appreciate if you could supply a patch
 for it.

Fair enough - I have sent a patch which adds to the README the kind of
information present in almost all other software pacakges.  It needs
adjusting to list the XEmacs versions that org can use, but I think it's
close.

Thanks,
Greg




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[O] makefile regression

[Greg Troxel]

For a long time, I've been updating org from git every week or two via:

  update-org () {
  (cd $HOME/SOFTWARE/EMACS/org-mode  git pull  make)
  }

and I have emacs pointed at that directory.   This is on NetBSD where
make is BSD make.

Today, I updated again and got:

  make: /home/gdt/SOFTWARE/EMACS/org-mode/Makefile line 6: Need an operator
  make: /home/gdt/SOFTWARE/EMACS/org-mode/Makefile line 87: Need an operator
  make: Fatal errors encountered -- cannot continue

  make: stopped in /home/gdt/SOFTWARE/EMACS/org-mode

and it seems recent changes have required beyond-POSIX-make features.

This seems unfortunate; I don't understand why building org has to be so
complicated.  If it is complicated, it seems best to use
autoconf/automake, which already have worked out most of the portability
issues.

At the very least a dependency on GNU make should be documented, if that
is indeed an intentional decision by the community.   (I haven't seen
any discussion, but I confess to not quite keeping up with with
emacs-orgmode traffic.)

Greg



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[O] orgmode resume / cv examples?

[Greg Troxel]

I remember people talking about preparing resumes in org, with the
primary target being latex export.  I saved a few postings, but hadn't
really paid attention.

Now, I am paying more attention :-) I tried to chase down the
references, but didn't find a full source example, and no pointers on
worg.

I found

  http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2011-07/msg00998.html

which pointed to

  https://github.com/punchagan/resume

which seems promising, but I have not tried it yet.

There are also things like this:

  
http://www.howtotex.com/general/a-guide-to-building-a-plain-and-simple-latex-cv/
  http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/moderncv/
  http://mirror.hmc.edu/ctan/help/Catalogue/entries/ecv.html
  http://stefano.italians.nl/archives/50

which aren't about orgmode, just latex.

I found a resume that obviously had used org, but not the org-mode
source file:

  http://adamsonj.ninth.su/cv.html


Thanks,
Greg


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Re: [O] Org without X on Debian

[Greg Troxel]

I often use org in emacs inside an xterm (because the emacs is running
on a machine far away and remote x emacs is piggy about bandwidth).

Several observations:

  keys like shift-up sometimes work I think local xterm is somehow
  making a keycode and sending it over ssh.  So it seems like in
  environments where there's a notion of 7-bit ASCII character sets and
  the 8th bit being available for meta, emacs tries to cope with that.

  I use no locale settings.  But on machines with LC_ALL=en_US.utf-8 or
  some such, I find that the meta key doesn't work in emacs any more (at
  least on remote logins)

  You can avoid all those keys and do things in org other ways.  I tend
  to c-c c-s and type a new date, rather than use arrows anyway.

  There is (setq org-use-speed-commands t) and then 'l' and 'r' on
  headings will demote/promote.  I like this because I don't have to
  remember if I'm in an environment where shift-arrow works.


(IMHO it's a bug in org that anything mainstream uses keystrokes that
are not available in a regular terminal.  Back when I was young, we
didn't have X, and had to carry our own VT52s to school. :-)


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Re: [O] Possible bug in mobile export

[Greg Troxel]

The following fix is in org master, but not in 7.8.  I am able to use
org-mobile-push.


commit 71089b7e3b00736f854d6e95a52229853262e12a
Author: Bastien Guerry b...@altern.org
Date:   Wed Jan 4 16:37:59 2012 +0100

org-mobile.el (org-mobile-push): Use `org-agenda-tag-filter'.

* org-mobile.el (org-mobile-push): Use `org-agenda-tag-filter'
instead of the obsolete `org-agenda-filter'.

Thanks to Charles Sebold for reporting this.

diff --git a/lisp/org-mobile.el b/lisp/org-mobile.el
index b049f4e..bcc1c90 100644
--- a/lisp/org-mobile.el
+++ b/lisp/org-mobile.el
@@ -303,7 +303,7 @@ create all custom agenda views, for upload to the mobile 
phone.
   (interactive)
   (let ((a-buffer (get-buffer org-agenda-buffer-name)))
 (let ((org-agenda-buffer-name *SUMO*)
- (org-agenda-filter org-agenda-filter)
+ (org-agenda-tag-filter org-agenda-tag-filter)
  (org-agenda-redo-command org-agenda-redo-command))
   (save-excursion
(save-window-excursion



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Re: [O] M-RET and C-RET

[Greg Troxel]

Please keep in mind that C-ret is not an ascii or 8-bit character (or
even a character, really), so people using emacs in an xterm (rather
than via X) do not have C-ret available.  In general I find that org
mode becomes a little awkward in a terminal due to usage of
ungeneratable characters.



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Re: [O] How to say I did that yesterday?

[Greg Troxel]

  I often discover that I completed something a few days ago and I would
  like to mark it done with the appropriate date as though I had marked it
  done in the past.  That means, e.g., for a repeating event it might
  repeat sooner than if it had been done today.  Is there a way?

I also want to to that, basically binding 'now' to a particular time in
the past and then executing a todo state change (to effect the log, and
also the next scheduled time).
I wonder if replacing the calls to get now with a function that looks at
a variable and doing

  (setq now-var (now))
  (do-whatever)

would be enough to get it to do what I want.



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Re: [O] org-mobile-push failure with git tip

[Greg Troxel]

[problem with org-mobile-push from commit
dc62cdcdf11f305149281d16ef2200e18c7abd43
]

  I've recently pushed a patch around that area. Does the problem persist
  with the latest git ?

Thanks.  I updated (to 7c21098323bf0097c7903b014564cd6056bda374) and now
all is well.



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[O] org-mobile-push failure with git tip

[Greg Troxel]

I recently updated to the latest git, and found that while everything
else I tried was ok, I got a backtrace when doing org-mobile-push.
Bisecting, I found that the problem commit is:

commit dc62cdcdf11f305149281d16ef2200e18c7abd43
Author: Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com
Date:   Sun Oct 23 22:42:48 2011 +0200

org-agenda: Fix small display bug.

* lisp/org-agenda.el: Fix small display bug.

diff --git a/lisp/org-agenda.el b/lisp/org-agenda.el
index 32087e3..2bbb832 100644
--- a/lisp/org-agenda.el
+++ b/lisp/org-agenda.el
@@ -3887,7 +3887,7 @@ in `org-agenda-text-search-extra-files'.
 (if (not regexps+)
(setq regexp org-outline-regexp-bol)
   (setq regexp (pop regexps+))
-  (if hdl-only (setq regexp (concat org-outline-regexp-bol  .*?
+  (if hdl-only (setq regexp (concat org-outline-regexp-bol .*?
regexp
 (setq files (org-agenda-files nil 'ifmode))
 (when (eq (car org-agenda-text-search-extra-files) 'agenda-archives)
@@ -4623,7 +4623,7 @@ the documentation of `org-diary'.
(setq marker (org-agenda-new-marker (match-beginning 0))
  category (org-get-category)
  org-category-pos (get-text-property (point) 
'org-category-position)
- txt (match-string 2)
+ txt (buffer-substring (match-beginning 2) (match-end 3))
  tags (org-get-tags-at (point))
  txt (org-agenda-format-item  txt category tags)
  priority (1+ (org-get-priority txt))



and by moving to origin/master and then reverting that one commit, all
seems well.  I can send more information if needed, but I'm guessing the
above report will make the problem apparent.


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Re: [O] Schedule event

[Greg Troxel]

Bastien b...@altern.org writes:

 Jason Dunsmore emacs-orgm...@dunsmor.com writes:

 Carsten Dominik domi...@uva.nl writes:

 Yes, that was my original reason.  But your suggestion of adding a
 special keyword for events is another good reason.  Also, as recently
 discussed, consistent formatting conventions and clarifying the
 frequently-misunderstood issue of SCHEDULED vs. no-keyword active
 timestamps are good reasons.

 I agree adding an EVENT: (or APPT:) would be nice.

I just started struggling with this when trying to make ical exports.
(In my not-really-defined planning system :-) I have multiple kinds of
events:

  events that I wish to be aware of, and perhaps choose to go to, but I
  don't consider myself to have a plan to attend.   For this I use bare
  active timestamps.

  events that I am planning to attend, but which I feel reasonably free
  not to.  For this I'm using TODO and SCHEDULED: (which I am thinking
  is wrong).

  events/meetings that I am committed to attending.  For these I use
  APPT (a custom TODO sequence keyword) and SCHEDULED:


After writing the above, I think my use of SCHEDULED: for events is just
wrong, and I should use it only to label days (and perhaps times) that I
plan to complete TODO items, and then use APPT/active and TODO/active
for meetings and maybe-meetings.

 PS: it took me long to reply because I'm also considering using 
 the property drawer to store timestamps like SCHEDULED, DEADLINE
 and so on.   But it is a big move and we can't delay your request 
 by relying on such a change.

I almost always leave the property drawer collapsed, and it seems like
it hides things I don't want to see.  But I do want SCHEDULED, DEADLINE,
etc. to be very visible.On the other hand, I would like the location
property to be hoisted to the first/second line, so perhaps putting them
all in the property drawer and having a customizable view where everyone
can see their preferred subset, formatted nicely, would be best.  Is
that more or less what you are suggesting?



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[O] regression: capture vs dired

[Greg Troxel]

When doing capture, after selecting 'task', I get:

  Template key: 
  call-interactively: Symbol's value as variable is void: dired-buffers

This is on:

  GNU Emacs 23.3.1 (i386--netbsdelf, GTK+ Version 2.24.4) of 2011-06-25 on 
fnord.ir.bbn.com

I suspect it may be this commit:

  commit 819fbec64160c3c33884b116734c01f56be7606b
  Author: Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com
  Date:   Mon Jul 18 17:42:01 2011 +0200



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Re: [O] regression: capture vs dired

[Greg Troxel]

Nicolas Goaziou n.goaz...@gmail.com writes:

 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

 When doing capture, after selecting 'task', I get:

   Template key: 
   call-interactively: Symbol's value as variable is void: dired-buffers

 This has (hopefully) been fixed on master. You may update Org.

Thanks.  I updated to

  commit 5e33df46a41427edc765a08461505c363d6668a9
  Author: Bastien Guerry b...@altern.org
  Date:   Tue Jul 19 18:41:21 2011 +0200

and capture works again for me.


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Re: [O] Org Mode Calendar UID Mismatch.

[Greg Troxel]

Ghanashyam mail.ghanashyam.pra...@gmail.com writes:

 I have had a problem with the org mode calendar export with emacs.
 It looks like org mode uses some uid generation exe which
 generates non unique UIDs. I am not sure why this is to. Even when I
 set the UID format to include the date format. Because of this, the ics
 file import into google calendar or a thunderbird import fails to import all
 tasks that were reported as Scheduled in the org mode document.

 Anyone with similar experiences.? I put this up on stack overflow but
 there was no response.

I'm haing the inverse problem, but I hadn't tracked it down enough to
post.   I find that after importing into Apple iCal (mac 10.6), and
doing another import, I end up with two events.




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Re: [O] MobileOrg: Org files already in Dropbox

[Greg Troxel]

Joost Kremers joostkrem...@fastmail.fm writes:

 I got an iPad the other day and of course want to try out
 MobileOrg. The MobileOrg setup instructions say to create a folder
 MobileOrg in your Dropbox root dir, from where MobileOrg will read the
 org files. However, I'm already keeping my org files somewhere in my
 Dropbox folder (in order to keep them in sync between three computers)
 and if any way possible I'd rather not have two copies of them.

 So I have a few questions:

 1) Can I set org-mobile-directory to something other than
 ~/Dropbox/MobileOrg (specifically, can I set the directory name to
 something other than MobileOrg?)

Probably.  I use my own server and just entered the URL.  (I don't use
dropbox at all.)

 2) Can I set org-mobile-directory to the directory containing my org
 files, or will this lead to problems?

I wouldn't.   MobileOrg has a concept of the real org files, files
converted for mobile use, and reintegrating changes from those back into
the real org files.   Also while real org can compute agendas, the ones
you see in mobileorg are precomputed.


 3) If so, is it possible to set org-mobile-inbox-for-pull to somewhere
 outside this directory, so that its contents isn't included in the
 agenda? (I have org-agenda-files set to ~/Dropbox/Work/Organiser.)

Probably that would work.   I have it in ~/ORG/from-mobile.org, but I
only put files in the agenda explicitly.   I think it's just a place to
put notes that have been added so you can refile, so it should be ok to
be in a directory not with the rest of your org files.

 4) For the same reason, is it possible to make sure the files
 agenda.org and index.org that MobileOrg creates are placed somewhere
 outside the agenda directory?

I don't know what you mean by agenda directory exactly, but I think you
should have directory for mobileorg and not have that directory used by
emacs org at all.

You could probably figure out how to prepare files for mobileorg so that
the real org files are read, but I'm not sure that would be ok.
Of course you could extend both org-mode and mobileorg to do what you
want.  What would be cool is to run emacs on the ipad, but unfortunately
Apple's app licensing terms are incompatible with the GPL.


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Re: [O] Org expert mode?

[Greg Troxel]

Bastien b...@altern.org writes:

 Bastien b...@altern.org writes:

 So I naturally thought of something like an Org Expert mode: when
 turned off, the UI would *not* give access to complex features

 More precisely: the UI would not _display_ complex features, which will
 still be available anyway (of course).

I started using org only last summer, and found it a little daunting,
but reading the intro manual was easier than I thought.  There are lots
of complicated features, but I found it entirely easy to ignore
exporting, clocking, and many others.

Looking back, the hardest thing for a new person to learn is the
keybindings for scheduling, priorities, etc. in both the org mode view
and agenda view.

I don't see where having a mode to turn on and off would help any of
this.  I can sort of see the point about the export help, but I type
C-e C-h h so fast that it barely blinks by.  (Were I still on dialup I
would be cranky.)

Overall, I suggest enumerating what changes ought to be made for
non-expert mode, and then seeing if the complexity of having a mode is
really worth it, rather than inventing a mechanism and then looking for
ways to apply it.


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Re: [O] Viewing Agenda in MobileOrg

[Greg Troxel]

  I have just set up MobileOrg to work with my new iPhone, and have the
  following problem: I can view the contents of my various .org files,
  but Agenda Views appears to be empty.  I have the weekly agenda view
  open when I push the .org files to Dropbox.  I am afraid I am missing
  something very basic, but can't for the life of me figure out what it
  is!

Are you using org-mobile-push?  That creates agendas.org and puts it
on the server.  You should look in your webdav space and see if it is
there and sensible.  My agendas.org file is 150KB and starts

#+BEGIN_SRC org
#+READONLY
* Week-agenda (W10-W11):afterKEYS=a TITLE: Agenda /after
** Tuesday 8 March 2011
***  TODO [#A] a task
#+END_SRC org




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Re: [O] mobile org problems

[Greg Troxel]

I use MobileOrg with webdav, both remote over ssh/tramp, and locally
(two separate setups).

On the ssh one:

(setq org-mobile-directory /ssh:foo.example.org:/usr/home/gdt/ORG)
(setq org-mobile-inbox-for-pull
  (concat org-directory /from-mobile.org))
(setq org-mobile-use-encryption t)
(setq org-mobile-encryption-password password)

But, the tricky part is dealing with permissions.

Basically, the webdav world seems to want you to only access it via
webdav, and joint filesystem and webdav access is troublesome.

My remote directory is (on NetBSD, which I think inherits gid even
without the SysV-style sgid directory):

drwxrws---  2 gdt  www  512 Mar  2 09:08 ORG/

and I run this script from cron every 5 minutes:

#!/bin/sh
cd /home/gdt/ORG

find . -type f \! -group www | while read f; do
echo -n GROUP ; ls -l $f
chgrp www $f
done
find . -type f -name mobileorg\* \! -perm -220 | while read f; do
echo -n MODE ; ls -l $f
chmod g+w $f
done



An alternative would be to have a webdav fs on the machine with the org
files, and to use that to write to the webdav area.

My webdav setup is straightforward apache.




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Re: [O] mobile org problems

[Greg Troxel]

I should have pointed out the causes of the two problems the script
resolves:

  ssh tramp at least sometimes preserves gid, and the gid on my org
  machine is an allowed gid on the webdav server, so files can end up
  with my normal gid instead of www.

  when mobileorg.org is rewritten by org (after pull), it ends up 644
  gdt.www, but then MobileOrg can't write it.


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Re: [O] mobile org problems

[Greg Troxel]

Richard Riley rile...@googlemail.com writes:

 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

 An alternative would be to have a webdav fs on the machine with the org
 files, and to use that to write to the webdav area.


 I'm not sure I parse that properly. Do you mean mounted and owned as
 www-data/www via shfs or something?

I mean use a fuse weddav mount with the same credentials, so that when
emacs puts org files there, it uses the same access/permissions/owners
on the filesystem that is backing the webdav space.


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Re: [O] mobile org problems

[Greg Troxel]

Richard Riley rile...@googlemail.com writes:

 Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com writes:

 An alternative would be to have a webdav fs on the machine with the org
 files, and to use that to write to the webdav area.


 I'm not sure I parse that properly. Do you mean mounted and owned as
 www-data/www via shfs or something?

I mean use a fuse weddav mount with the same credentials, so that when
emacs puts org files there, it uses the same access/permissions/owners
on the filesystem that is backing the webdav space.


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Re: [Orgmode] Status google calendar sync

[Greg Troxel]

[I replied privately to the my-own-fault OT part.]

Mark Elston m_els...@comcast.net writes:

 On 1/29/2011 12:44 PM, Greg Troxel wrote:

 I think the only tricky part is somehow push UUIDs during scyning, and
 then you'll need an operation to merge an org event and an ical event
 with different UUIDs and remember the foreign UUID for the next sync.

 I'm not sure what you mean by this.

 I have never made use of any .ical/.ics files so this hasn't been an
 issue for me.  The only UUIDs I am dealing with are google calendar's
 own internal UUIDs.  I don't know how they compare with other UUIDs.

I suspect, but am 100% not sure, that sending events to google calendar
via the command-line tools is conceptually similar to exporting to ical
and doing an import to some ical-style GUI calendar program.

 What I am working on now is a python script to initialize some of the
 info I have in my org files with info from google (including the google
 UUID).  Most of this will go into a property drawer.  This drawer can
 certainly be expanded to contain additional data from other tools as
 necessary.

I think you're thinking the same problem I didn't articulate very well

  events in iCalendar/etc. systems (including google calendar) have a
  UUID, and those systems typically can accept an existing UUID on
  import

  org events have a UUID, at least after org-mobile-export, and it's
  ID in properties drawer.  I'm not sure if these can be used as-is
  when exporting via iCalendar.

  someone might end up with the same event in both systems, but without
  matching UUIDs.  In that case, there needs to be some way to merge
  events and remember both UUIDs so that future syncing keeps the events
  merged.

 What I would like is to be able to shuffle my schedule in org as it is
 often a more convenient interface for this than *any* calendar I have
 used for the kinds of things I have to do.  Once I get the dates/times
 for individual events the way I want them I would then push them to
 google (or wherever).  My notes and other useful data stay in org.

Agreed; this is what I would like to do also.  But I would like to also
be able to change a time in [non-org scheduling program] or add an event
(perhaps via a mailed iCalendar invitation) and have those flow into
org.

ical export seems to be present in org, but I found duplicated events
after multiple exports.  I need to find time to try it more and either
fix it or construct a good bug report.


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Re: [Orgmode] Status google calendar sync

[Greg Troxel]

Mark Elston m_els...@comcast.net writes:

  [google calendar]

 I wasn't all that keen on it at first but I really got to like it when
 I was able to update my calendar from my phone or my laptop or my
 desktop at work and all three would see it.

 When I found I could create multiple calendars and share *some* of them
 I really started to enjoy the idea of a central server for my calendar
 data.

You are blurring having a calendar server and being forced into sharing
your data with google because of using non-free software that is
crippled by not being able to set the server URL.

 I still don't put anything on there that would compromise my
 privacy if it got exposed.

I find this boggling (where you will be in the future, and who you are
meeting with is surely a privacy issue), but clearly we have different
views on privacy and that's double-plus OT.

 Maybe, we should all focus to improve mobileorg.

 I like the idea but won't want to give up the google calendar.  I would
 prefer to see my schedule, appts, etc in one place (on my calendar) with
 supporting data elsewhere.  This is what I would like to use something
 like mobileorg for.  There are already plenty of good apps for taking
 the google calendar and presenting it in useful ways.  What I would like
 is to be able to navigate from an event in a calendar to whatever notes
 I have in org related to it.  That is where I keep the details, notes,
 private stuff that I keep off the calendar.  It keeps the calendar
 clean and simple but I get all my notes as necessary.

org syncing with a calendar server makes a lot of sense to me, but again
that's separate from a the only usable calendar server is google.


I think the only tricky part is somehow push UUIDs during scyning, and
then you'll need an operation to merge an org event and an ical event
with different UUIDs and remember the foreign UUID for the next sync.


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Re: [Orgmode] Status google calendar sync

[Greg Troxel]

Torsten Wagner torsten.wag...@gmail.com writes:

 Since I use my Android-based phone on a daily basis (after all it is a
 mobile phone), I got tempted to use more and more the google
 calendar. I know about mobileorg and all this. However, the calendar
 is so highly integrated with many applications on the phone that is is
 often just a click away to add a new appointment.


Slightly OT perhaps, but I am contemplating getting an Android phone and
figuring out how NOT to have my calendar on google, and would like to
sync it with org.  (Right now I've made a 0.1-hearted attempt to export
org to ical and put it in mac calendar.)  Are there ways to not sync
with google on the android and sync with org?  I don't mind running my
own calendar server.


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[Orgmode] excessive blank lines in archives

[Greg Troxel]

I've been noticed extra lines in archive files.  I did a controlled test
by creating a simple foo.org:


* test item 1
  this is a test item
* test item 2
  this is a test item


I then moved to the first * and did C-x $ to archive.  That got me an
archive file with an extra blank line near the top, and two blank lines
at the end.  Moving to the second * got me three blank lines at the end
of the archive file.   I expect only one blank line between the mode:
line and Archived entries, and I don't expect any extra blank lines
beyond the items added.  (If there is a blank line added between entries
when there wasn't one, that seems ok, but they accumulate on the end.)

My setup is recent git master, emacs 23.2, NetBSD 5.1, i386.  I wonder
if I am confused, I have misconfigured org, or if there is a bug?

My foo.org_archive after two archive operations (did not exist before):


#-*- mode: org -*-


Archived entries from file /home/gdt/ORG/foo.org
* test item 1
  :PROPERTIES:
  :ARCHIVE_TIME: 2010-12-18 Sat 20:32
  :ARCHIVE_FILE: ~/ORG/foo.org
  :ARCHIVE_CATEGORY: foo
  :END:
  this is a test item
* test item 2
  :PROPERTIES:
  :ARCHIVE_TIME: 2010-12-18 Sat 20:32
  :ARCHIVE_FILE: ~/ORG/foo.org
  :ARCHIVE_CATEGORY: foo
  :END:
  this is a test item






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Re: [Orgmode] MobileOrg: Unexpceted error when syncing data from Dropbox

[Greg Troxel]

Martin Stemplinger mstemplin...@gmx.de writes:

 today I upgraded to org-mode 7.4 (I'm using GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1
 (i386-mingw-nt6.1.7600) should that matter). Since then I receive the
 message Unexpected Error when I try to sync from Dropbox. 

I've been using 7.4 with my own webdav server (apache 2.2) with
MobileOrg and it's been fine.

I would suggest looking at the files in dropbox to see if they look ok.


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Re: [Orgmode] Re: org-mode gnus integration across two machines when using nnimap

[Greg Troxel]

  Basically, when reading an email (in gnus, in wl, in other emacs MUAs
  possibly), type C-c l (org-store-link) which will /store/ a link to
  that email (store is the wrong word, in my view; it should arguably be
  make or create or define or ... but that's neither here nor
  there).  You can then put that link in an org file with C-c C-l RET
  (org-store-link, accepting the default which should be the last link you
  stored).

Perhaps my capture setup isn't fancy enough, but I think it would be
nice if the default for capture when invoked from gnus were to grab the
gnus link and insert it in the body of the new org headline.



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Re: [Orgmode] agenda mode - carrying over tasks from previous week

[Greg Troxel]

sergio_101 sergio@gmail.com writes:

 how would i go about making items/tasks that didn't get completed last
 week carry over into this week?

Type 'm' in front of each and then B s to a new date.  If you want to
move them all forward one week to the same day, I think you'll have to
write some elisp.



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Re: [Orgmode] Git pull has merge conflict

[Greg Troxel]

Noorul Islam noo...@noorul.com writes:

 I am not sure why this conflict is arising even after resetting to
 head and then doing a pull

 $ noo...@sajida:~/emacs/org-mode$ git reset --hard
 HEAD is now at ba6b6f3 Merge branch 'master' of git://repo.or.cz/org-mode

 $ noo...@sajida:~/emacs/org-mode$ git pull
 Auto-merging ORGWEBPAGE/index.org
 CONFLICT (content): Merge conflict in ORGWEBPAGE/index.org
 Automatic merge failed; fix conflicts and then commit the result.

Because you reset to master, which is your copy, rather than resetting
to origin/master, which would discard local changes.


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Re: [Orgmode] bug? org does not seem to sort by prioritiy #A, #B, #C, #D

[Greg Troxel]

Carsten Dominik carsten.domi...@gmail.com writes:

 On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:52 AM, Rainer Stengele wrote:

 My guessing is that a naive user (like me ...) does expect any
 defined priority (like #D in this case) to have a higher priority
 than a non priority item.

 I see how that makes sense.  However, the other use case is this:

 Use #A to make something higher priority.  Use #C to make it lower
 than any normal stuff.  All the rest mingles in #B.

 So your proposal makes the assumption that any priority means more
 than no priority.

The default aBc settings were easily understandable to me and I use A to
mark things high and C low and leave most things in the middle.

So maybe all that's needed is a You might expect tasks with an explicit
priority to all be considered higher priority than tasks without an
explicit priority, but in fact unlabeled tasks inherit the default
priority.  Or maybe that's redundant.



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Re: [Orgmode] What WebDAV service do you use for syncing org files?

[Greg Troxel]

Jeff Horn jrhorn...@gmail.com writes:

 I keep wanting to test out MobileOrg on my Android phone, but I'm
 having a heck of a time figuring out why the SD sync isn't working
 like I expect. I'd like to sync org files with a WebDAV server, if
 possible. I currently use Dropbox, but it doesn't offer WebDAV. I can
 mount a WebDAV server in the file system so it'll work *kind of* like
 Dropbox.

The org mode part just needs to have a directory it can put files into
so that the client can access them.  Then the mobileorg client has to
get at them.  So you have to have someplace where you can make both
work. I think the options are

* dropbox

Use a dropbox client locally, to make dropbox space appear to be part of
local filesystem, and just set org-mobile-directory to be in there.
MobileOrg (iphone) has support for that; not sure about android versoin.

I think it's ridiculous to use a 3rd party server without encrypting
your org files, but of course your privacy views may be different.

* local apache 

I have an org setup where I have org-mobile-directory set to ~/ORG-dav,
which is just a directory on my disk (NetBSD, UFS2, nothing fancy).  I
have apache configured to put that directory into the webspace, and
configure MobileOrg to do webdav there, and set up .htaccess.  I have to
be careful to set up permissions so apache as www/www can access the
files - it's a bit hairy.

* remote apache with ssh

I have another org setup where I have org-mobile-directory set:

(setq org-mobile-directory /ssh:foo.example.com:/usr/home/gdt/ORG)

which causes org-mobile to use tramp to place/fetch the files.  I then
have the same apache setup.

* remote apache with a dav fs

I haven't set this up, but it should be possible to use a webdav fs
(fuse, etc.) on the computer with the org files to be the staging area,
so that emacs will write over dav.  This is pleasing from a permission
point of view, because then the files that apache deals with are
accessed by two webdav clients with the same credentials, and the apache
permission scheme and the unix permission scheme don't have to be
deconflicted.


My apache setup is striaght by the book, with htdigest.


DavLockDB /usr/pkg/var/httpd/DavLock
Alias /org/gdt /home/gdt/ORG-dav
Directory /home/gdt/ORG-dav
Options Indexes

AllowOverride AuthConfig
Order allow,deny
Allow from all

DAV On

AuthType Digest
AuthName special-auth-name
AuthDigestFile someplace

Limit GET PUT POST DELETE PROPFIND PROPPATCH MKCOL COPY MOVE LOCK UNLOCK
Require valid-user
/Limit
/Directory



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Re: [Orgmode] org-crypt and org-mobile-crypt; user info?

[Greg Troxel]

  2. Encrypt files on the Dropbox server, in a transparent way, so that I do
  not need to use passwords to sync between org and Iphone (which I let Emacs
  do automatically once each day).

This is what MobileOrg's encryption is for. You set a password in your
.emacs and then the same one on MobileOrg and the files in
dropbox/webdav are encrypted, and there is no hassle.  Note that
MobileOrg only has encrypttion support in the beta 1.5, not the released
1.4 - I have a beta and am using it/testing it.


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Re: [Orgmode] Re: [Babel] Macro for begin_src?

[Greg Troxel]

Sébastien Vauban wxhgmqzgw...@spammotel.com writes:

 Hi Eric,

 Eric Schulte wrote:
 The snippets used by the starter kit are available in their own git
 repository at http://github.com/eschulte/yasnippet-org-mode

 Trying to clone it, I get:

 #+begin_src sh
 [...@mediacenter] ~/srcgit clone 
 http://github.com/eschulte/yasnippet-org-mode
 Cloning into yasnippet-org-mode...
 fatal: http://github.com/eschulte/yasnippet-org-mode/info/refs not found: did 
 you run git update-server-info on the server?
 #+end_src

The usual github lossage :-) The http interface for people to look at
the repo is the above path.  However the git repo has a .git on the end.
Use the path you quoted with a browser and find the git URL.

gdt 22 ~/SOFTWARE/EMACS  git clone 
http://github.com/eschulte/yasnippet-org-mode.git
Initialized empty Git repository in 
/usr/home/gdt/SOFTWARE/EMACS/yasnippet-org-mode/.git/
remote: Counting objects: 42, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (42/42), done.
remote: Total 42 (delta 9), reused 0 (delta 0)
Unpacking objects: 100% (42/42), done.


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Re: [Orgmode] timestamp with repeater interval

[Greg Troxel]

Rainer Thiel r.th...@uni-jena.de writes:

 I have a strange problem with timestamps with repeater intervals and
 think I am doing something wrong.

 I had assumed that entering in a new TODO item a timestamp like oct
 19 10:00 +14w pressing C-c . would show the entry in the next 15
 weeks including the day of tomorrow.  In reality, the item shows up
 *only* tomorrow, but not in the next 14 weeks.

 Any idea what I am doing wrong?

Repeating tasks have a time to happen next (I usually use scheduled time
for tasks, and active timestamps for appointments, but I am not sure
that matters).  When you mark the task done, a repeating task will
automatically jump back to TODO with the repeated date.


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Re: [Orgmode] mobileorg app can't sync

[Greg Troxel]

Rodney Price rodpr...@raytheon.com writes:

 I've been trying to get MobileOrg set up with Dropbox, and I seem to
 have done something to make it impossible for MobileOrg to sync.
 Whenever I try, I get an error message like,

 Unexpected error: error getting mobileorg.org

 (paraphrased somewhat)

 It was syncing fine at one point, but then I decided to move my ~/org
 directory into the Dropbox directory, and MobileOrg evidently didn't
 like the change.  

 How do I get the MobileOrg app (on an iPod Touch) to start up again?

I have not used dropbox, but the directory with your org files and the
place in webdav that is your MobileOrg staging area are conceptually
separate.  You still have to org-mobile-push even if org-directory is
someplace in dav space.

To let someone debug this, you'll have to post your entire relevant
config, including setting of org-mobile-directory, org-directory, and
the URL you put in MobileOrg.

(I have mobileorg syncing fine, from two instances (production and beta
builds), one where I have a separate DAV dir accessed via the local
filesystem, and one which is accessed on a remote server via tramp/ssh)



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Re: [Orgmode] org-mobile-use-encryption

[Greg Troxel]

Carsten Dominik carsten.domi...@gmail.com writes:

 thank you very much vor putting in the time to test the encryption
 for MobileOrg.

No problem - thank you for writing and sheparding Org.

 But for org files on servers we believe are not messing with them,
 this is probably in the 'best is the enemy of the good' category.
 And if we want integrity (I know, ENOPATCH), then it's probably best
 to do it outright, so I withdraw my complaint about checksums.dat
 being in cleartext.

 Is is also so that the file transfer is happening in two one-way
 street.  agendas.org and the agenda files and index.org are uploaded,
 mobileorg.org is downloaded, and its contents are then applied
 locally.  Seems to be little room for problems here.

The issue is that the whole point of encryption is to use a webdav
server not under one's control, such as dropbox, or perhaps one accessed
not over SSL.  Encryption prevents the server admin from reading the
bits, and that's the most important thing.  But if the server admin
changes the ciphertext, they can cause the wrong plaintext to appear.
This is generally tricky, but it's a principle of cryptographic protocol
design that one can't assume that encryption provides integrity
(meaning, that just because the bits are encrypted doesn't mean it
prevents an adversary from manipulating the plaintext).

That said, the above is probably overly paranoid for most people.

 ~/orgtmpcrypt seems to not always get cleaned up when I push/pull.
 After a push, I found it to contain my index.org, unencrypted and 644
 in my homedir.  Probably this should go in org-directory instead
 which presumably would be protected as the user wants.

 I did not put it into org-directory because I don't know if users have
 this set to an accessible place, and I don't want the push
 to fail because of that.

I think this is the classic security/convenience tradeoff.  On a
multiuser system, I think Org now puts the orgtmpcrypt file with normal
umask, and that can be read by other users (albeit briefly).  I
suggested org-directory because someone who wants to keep other users
From seeing his org bits will protect that approriately - mine is 0700.

I suppose there could be someone who turns on encryption and has org
files in random places but no directory matching org-directory.  Getting
an error seems fair enough and better than risking exposing private bits.

(Again, I realize I'm on the paranoid side, but I do security
professionally so it comes naturally.)

 I have modified the code and hope that it does now in all cases
 clean up the temporary file.  Please let me know if you still
 find a case where this is not so.

Thanks - will do.  Right now all is working well.



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Re: [Orgmode] org-mobile-use-encryption

[Greg Troxel]

Carsten Dominik carsten.domi...@gmail.com writes:

 On Oct 13, 2010, at 2:23 AM, Greg Troxel wrote:

 I am trying to test encryption for MobileOrg via a beta from Richard.
 (We're still playing the 'convince itunes to let you run code on your
 own phone game', so this report is preliminary about what Org itself
 is doing.)

I have successfully viewed my org files and retrieved a captured note
From the phone into emacs.

This note is about release_7.01h-672-g7e29685, so I have
your commit 9755e09bbcd630b6d0e20dbf6342bf1c1e66c819.

 I have in .emacs-local.el:

 (setq org-mobile-use-encryption t)
 (setq org-mobile-encryption-password mypasswd)

 and I did org-mobile-push.  I found that there was an old agendas.org
 that was not encrypted, and it seems that org-mobile-push omits
 agendas.org if org-mobile-use-encryption is t, but still creates it
 when
 nil.

 I have not been able to reproduce this.

Apparently when in encryption mode the copy of the encrypted version
agendas.org fails because it's trying to go to a file named by the tramp
syntax instead of interpreting it as remote:

Agenda written to Org file /home/gdt/orgtmpcrypt
/ssh:foo.example.com:/usr/home/gdt/ORG/agendas.org: No such file or directory
3148034372:error:02001002:system library:fopen:No such file or 
directory:/n0/gdt/NetBSD-5/src/crypto/dist/openssl/crypto/bio/bss_file.c:355:fopen('/ssh:foo.example.com:/usr/home/gdt/ORG/agendas.org','w')

I read the code and I don't follow how the invocation of copy-file is
different in the encrypted case.

 checksums.dat is in cleartext.  This seems ok, but could be a missed
 opportunity for some integrity protection.

 I have a technical reason to not encrypt it - so unless there is
 someone who really needs it encrypted, I want to keep it like this.

That seems fine - the filenames are staying cleartext.  My point, not
well made, was that encryption does not give you integrity protection.
It seems the concern motivating this work is confidentiality, but in
cryptography it's considered good practice to also provide integrity,
via HMAC-SHA1 or a combined confidentiality/integrity mode.  But for org
files on servers we believe are not messing with them, this is probably
in the 'best is the enemy of the good' category.  And if we want
integrity (I know, ENOPATCH), then it's probably best to do it outright,
so I withdraw my complaint about checksums.dat being in cleartext.

 I'm not sure this level of paranoia is warranted, but typical
 encrypting filesystems also encrypt the filenames.  It probably
 suffices to just warn the user that the filenames of org files will
 still be exposed in the DAV area.

 I have just put this information into the manual.

Thanks.

minor issues:

~/orgtmpcrypt seems to not always get cleaned up when I push/pull.
After a push, I found it to contain my index.org, unencrypted and 644 in
my homedir.  Probably this should go in org-directory instead which
presumably would be protected as the user wants.

During a pull that got a note, emacs asked me about visiting a buffer
whose file (orgcrypttmp) had changed contents.  I'll see if I can
reproduce that.


Thanks for working on org-mobile-crypt.


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[Orgmode] org-mobile agenda failure with encryption and tramp

[Greg Troxel]

I think the problem is that I have org-mobile-directory set to

  /ssh:foo.example.com:/usr/home/gdt/ORG

then in here the encryption tries to be done in place, which means (I
think) a tramp pathname is passed to openssl.

Probably agendas.org needs to be created in a staging area and then the
encrypted version moved with copy-file.



(defun org-mobile-create-sumo-agenda ()
  Create a file that contains all custom agenda views.
  (interactive)
  (let* ((file (expand-file-name agendas.org
 org-mobile-directory))
 (file1 (if org-mobile-use-encryption
org-mobile-encryption-tempfile
  file))
 (sumo (org-mobile-sumo-agenda-command))
 (org-agenda-custom-commands
  (list (append sumo (list (list file1)
 (org-mobile-creating-agendas t))
(unless (file-writable-p file1)
  (error Cannot write to file %s file1))
(when sumo
  (org-store-agenda-views))
(when org-mobile-use-encryption
  (org-mobile-encrypt-file file1 file)
  (delete-file file1



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[Orgmode] [PATCH] Don't use possibly-tramp paths with openssl.

[Greg Troxel]

In creating agendas, follow the way all other org files are handled by
encrypting locally and then using copy-file, so that remote agenda.org
paths with tramp will work.
---
 lisp/org-mobile.el |3 +--
 1 files changed, 1 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/lisp/org-mobile.el b/lisp/org-mobile.el
index 9208d30..26e990d 100644
--- a/lisp/org-mobile.el
+++ b/lisp/org-mobile.el
@@ -677,8 +677,7 @@ The table of checksums is written to the file 
mobile-checksums.
 (when sumo
   (org-store-agenda-views))
 (when org-mobile-use-encryption
-  (org-mobile-encrypt-file file1 file)
-  (delete-file file1
+  (org-mobile-encrypt-and-move file1 file
 
 (defun org-mobile-encrypt-and-move (infile outfile)
   Encrypt INFILE locally to INFILE_enc, then move it to OUTFILE.
-- 
1.7.0.5


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[Orgmode] org-mobile-use-encryption

[Greg Troxel]

I am trying to test encryption for MobileOrg via a beta from Richard.
(We're still playing the 'convince itunes to let you run code on your
own phone game', so this report is preliminary about what Org itself is
doing.)

I have in .emacs-local.el:

(setq org-mobile-use-encryption t)
(setq org-mobile-encryption-password mypasswd)

and I did org-mobile-push.  I found that there was an old agendas.org
that was not encrypted, and it seems that org-mobile-push omits
agendas.org if org-mobile-use-encryption is t, but still creates it when
nil.

checksums.dat is in cleartext.  This seems ok, but could be a missed
opportunity for some integrity protection.

index.org is in cleartext.  The list of file names is of course in the
webdav area, and that seems not a big deal, but it also contains the
TODO keyword plan, priority tag list, etc.


I'm not sure this level of paranoia is warranted, but typical encrypting
filesystems also encrypt the filenames.  It probably suffices to just
warn the user that the filenames of org files will still be exposed in
the DAV area.





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Re: [Orgmode] orgmode as a reference system: Storing private/sensitive information and syncing across devices.

[Greg Troxel]

  That being said, I store all my sensitive information in a huge
  reference.org file that is added to the agenda. I sync this (among
  other org files) to MobileOrg through a HTTPS-secured WebDav server.

I do this, but I use my own server, not dropbox.

It would be nice if there were some interoperable crypto between
MobileOrg and org, so that the server files were encrypted.


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[Orgmode] org-capture loses entered text when C-g on file selection

[Greg Troxel]

This may not technically be a bug, but it violated my expectations:

setup:

  (setq org-capture-templates
'((t task entry
   (file+headline notes.org Refile)
   * TODO %?\n  %U\n)))

Use 'C-c r' to start capturing.

Type 'foo'.

C-c C-w to start refiling

Type 'bar'.

Decide that you really didn't finish the note, and type C-g to get back
to editing the note.

Notice that your typed-in text is vanished.

C-h l output of a test case that shows this problem:

  C-c r f o o C-c C-w b a r C-g



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Re: [Orgmode] Re: OrgMobile - just a little help?

[Greg Troxel]

Richard Moreland r...@ncogni.to writes:

 On Jul 30, 2010, at 10:17 AM, Erwin Panen wrote:

 Further to the app badge: Would this then show the number of changes
 like it shows on the Outlines icon or analoguous to e.g. the Mail
 icon in the iPhones dock?  If yes, on what basis will synching
 happen ?

 The badge will show the cumulate count of unsynced edit/new notes, so
 it will be the sum of the red indicator badges that show up on the
 Outlines and Capture buttons.  When you open the app and press sync,
 the badge will be cleared.

Unless there is a problem, I don't see why this should ever be off -
it's normal behavior.  I found the label confusing.  So I'd vote for
deleting the preference and just doing it.  If not, I'd make it negative
and Suppress needing-sync count in badge.


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Re: [Orgmode] Re: OrgMobile - just a little help?

[Greg Troxel]

  There are a few touch regions on each table row in an outline in
  MobileOrg.  If you tap the blue icon at the right of each row, you
  will view the details for that node (IMG_0019.PNG).  This is useful
  for editing a node's contents, todo state, etc.

  If you want to dig into the outline, just tap more to the left, on the
  text of the node (in this case, main.org).  That should present you
  with the child nodes of the file, and you can continue digging down
  from there.

FWIW, this confused me too.  Perhaps a thin vertical line to separate
the active touch regions as a clue that there are two?


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[Orgmode] diary-float and TODO entries

[Greg Troxel]

I have successfully used repeating times on TODO entries, and seen the
scheduled time move forward when I do C-c C-t d (d is my DONE shortcut).
I have a meeting on the 2nd monday of each month and am responsible for
inviting people ahead of time, and I've picked the first monday for
that.  I think I have to use a diary-mode expression, and the SCHEDULED:
time and event time below work ok.  But when I set the todo to DONE it
goes to DONE, instead of auto-changing back to TODO for the next month.

Is there some reasonable way to do what I want?


** FOO
*** TODO Announce meeting
SCHEDULED: %%(diary-float t 1 1)
*** FOO meeting
%%(diary-float t 1 2)


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Re: [Orgmode] Fix: org-mobile-push results in byte-code: Wrong type argument: listp, TODO

[Greg Troxel]

Torsten Wagner torsten.wag...@gmail.com writes:

 this problem was described by Xin already some monthes ago. Following
 the thread, the solution was to remove the customisation of the variable
 org-todo-keywords.

 Today, I faced the exact same problem. Removing seems not the correct
 solution to me so I searched around in the org-manual.
 To my surprise I found the following example:

 (setq org-todo-keywords
'((sequence TODO FEEDBACK VERIFY | DONE DELEGATED)))

 whereas in my init file I used simply

 (setq org-todo-keywords
'(TODO STARTED WAITING DONE))

 I changed my lines according to the manual and now org-mobile-push works
 without any problem. I wasn't able to track down whether the
 org-todo-keyword variable changed recently and I used an old definition
 or why I customised it in this simple resp. wrong way. Surprisingly,
 this didn't effect the TODO states mechanism in org-mode itself. They
 work as desired with the old customisation.

Perhaps the problem is that in your definition you didn't have any
keywords defined as completed states, and thus there are no done
keywords.  I couldn't figure this out in a few minutes.  Try adding |
before DONE in your example.  It could be that some parts of org but not
all treat the last keywords as a done keyword when there is no |.

(Of course org-mobile-push should give a better error message if this is
the issues.)


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Re: [Orgmode] Re: Behavior of Gnus when called from an hyperlink

[Greg Troxel]

Carsten Dominik carsten.domi...@gmail.com writes:

 On Jun 28, 2010, at 1:36 PM, Leo wrote:

 On 2010-06-28 11:19 +0100, Tassilo Horn wrote:
 (setq org-link-frame-setup '((vm   . vm-visit-folder)
 (gnus . org-gnus-no-new-news)
 (file . find-file-other-window)))

 I have also found creating new frame a bit annoying because I tend to
 have fullscreened emacs and really don't like a frame to pop into my
 face.

 I don't remember why I made creating a new frame the default.
 Probably back then I used to have a special frame for GNUS open.
 Anyway, if there is enough momentum here, we can change the default.

I also don't want a new frame.

Part of the problem with the new frame is that if I exit the article I
am back in Summary and it's tempting to quit that - because it was
perhaps just created for me and then I'm out of gnus.

It's almost like the article needs a buffer-local hook to exit
differently.  Maybe this is something gnus needs to support more, a
show this article, but don't mess with the summary buffer or any other
gnus state, or maybe it does already and I just don't understand.


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Re: [Orgmode] Does Org-mode need to be position aware?

[Greg Troxel]

Sebastian Rose sebastian_r...@gmx.de writes:

 On Linux, BSD and MAC OS X there is `gpsd'.  I don't know how useful
 it is --- I don't own a GPS yet.

 http://gpsd.berlios.de/ states:

gpsd is a service daemon that monitors one or more GPSes or AIS
receivers attached to a host computer through serial or USB ports,
making all data on the location/course/velocity of the sensors
available to be queried on TCP port 2947 of the host computer. With
gpsd, multiple location-aware client applications (such as
navigational and wardriving software) can share access to receivers
without contention or loss of data. Also, gpsd responds to queries
with a format that is substantially easier to parse than the NMEA
0183 emitted by most GPSes.

 Is there something like it for other systems? Windows?
 I think Cell phone systems should have something ...

(I am one of the maintainers of gpsd.)  gpsd works well; what it does is
get data from almost any gps receiver -- in that receiver's format --
and make it available in a standard format (now JSON based) with a C and
python library available.  Dealing with gpsd from emacs should be pretty
easy.

I think people have run gpsd on windows, but I don't use windows so I
don't pay attention to that.

There is also geoclue:

  http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/GeoClue

which is intended to integrate multiple location providers (including
gpsd) so that programs that want location can get it without worrying
about gps vs manual config vs wifi database vs geoip.


 But I guess the emacs-lisp gurus here might know this much
 better then I do. Another issue comes to my mind for mobileorg users. As
 far as I know, mobileorg only fetches agenda views from a server but
 does not generate them. However, this would be necessary to create this
 kind of location aware agendas.

 Would be nice to hear other opinions. Makes this sens? Should it be part
 of mobileorg, or rather a independent package?

Various cellphones have location support.  This is more or less like
geoclue but proprietary per platofrm (e.g.s apple's Core Location using
wifi, cell towers, gps as available).

 I'd make it an independent package.  Some laptops come with a built in
 GPS these days.  And your desktop might know his GEO location as well.

Architecturally, both org-on-real-computers and mobileorg should have a
way to hook up to a location provider.


The hard part is that lat/lon is really not what people want to think
about.  And, location services not using GPS will return locations that
are only sort of near the right answer.


So I'd suggest having the user define a set of locations as a sequence
of tuples of name, latlon and maybe radius.  This could be a GPX file
(standard interchange for GPS waypoints) perhaps plus radius.

Then, org could find the appropriate named point, and use that for
location, and most matching could be in terms of point names.


This way one could have tags for contexts, and reduce the gps use to
just autoselecting tags.  I think this might be the least mysterious and
error prone.


I edit org files on a computer that stays in one place, from many
places.  So I'd definitely need to say '(org-set-location office)' and
not rely on automatic.


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[Orgmode] DAV config for mobileorg

[Greg Troxel]

I have this 99% working, but I'm unclear on what the permission plan
should be.  My apache 2.2 config is

DavLockDB /usr/pkg/var/DavLock
Alias /org/gdt /home/gdt/ORG
Directory /home/gdt/ORG
Options Indexes

AllowOverride AuthConfig
Order allow,deny
Allow from all

DAV On

AuthType Digest
AuthName org/gdt
AuthUserFile /home/gdt/ORG/.htpasswd

Limit GET PUT POST DELETE PROPFIND PROPPATCH MKCOL COPY MOVE LOCK UNLOCK
Require valid-user
/Limit
/Directory


I've set up ~/ORG to be 770 gdt.www, and mobileorg.org 660, so that
apache can write to it.  According to apache docs, I should have all
this data owned by the apache user, and not be reading/writing it with
scp/etc.

  http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_dav.html

I would like to have a second mobileorg user on this system, and have
apache access both files via .htpasswd digest auth, and the system
prevent each user from reading the others.

Am I confused about this?  Any hints appreciated.


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Re: [Orgmode] Agenda is slow because of vc-mode

[Greg Troxel]

Since this slowness is caused by vc-mode, I wonder if it's possible
  for Org to open the agenda files without enabling vc-mode, for vc-mode
  is not necessary for org-mode.

I suspect part of the problem is that vc-mode is slower than it should
be.  Probably almost all of this time is 'git status foo.org' to find
out if the buffer gets a * or not.  Perhaps a variable to vc-mode to
omit that part would help, but I don't really know.


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[Orgmode] mobileorg new user report

[Greg Troxel]

I just started using Org mode and MobileOrg and have a few comments.
First, thanks to everyone who's written/etc. org - it's nice to step
into already-baked software.

* Mobileorg

** removed files

I had a foo.org that I pushed with others, and then deleted, and it
didn't go away from my phone.  Even when I rm'd from webdav it didn't go
away.  I may have done this wrong, but it would be nice if this were
easier.

** last update
It would be nice if the home screen showed the time of last sync.

** mobileorg.org location (I use ~/ORG instead of ~/org)
This should probably be:
  (setq org-mobile-inbox-for-pull (concat org-directory /from-mobile.org))
instead of
  ~/org/from-mobile.org

I realize org-directory is only for remember right now, but it seems
like it should be more of a global concept.

** multiple accounts

I try to keep work and personal things separate, so I expect to have two
parallel org setups, one on a work machine and one on a personal
machine.  That works fine with org, but I'd like to use mobileorg with
both (on one phone).  Richard is graciously helping me out with a
workaround, but I wanted to throw out the concept of mobileorg and the
forthcoming android version having multiple accounts (like Mail does).

Or perhaps multiple orgs could push/pull to one directory, but then the
mobileorg.org journal has entries for both and it's probably too much of
a mess.  And I'd like to be able to let colleagues look at some work org
things without risking exposing personal org things.

* org proper

** refiling

I figured this out for refiling, and found it hard to follow list, cons
cell, etc. even though I like lisp.  Adding the following as an example
in the docmentation of org-refile-targets would help.  It could also be
the default - for me refiling is used to put phone- or remember-generate
entries where they belong, not to move things around in a file.

; refiling
(setq org-refile-targets '((org-agenda-files . (:maxlevel . 4


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