Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Olaf Dietsche olaf+list.orgm...@olafdietsche.de writes: Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: OK, that might be what I need then. I thought clock tables grouped things by headings, not by tags. I'll have a look at the manual. [...] #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :tags health Clock summary at [2011-11-08 Di 09:57] | Headline | Time | |--+| | *Total time* | *0:20* | |--+| | Exercises| 0:20 | #+END: clocktable I've lost the rest of this thread and I don't actually know who to attribute the original statement above... In any case, I would like to have entries in the clock report by tag as opposed to headline (as alluded to above). Is this actually possible? My logging approach is to have descriptive headings (the specific task undertaken) with tags indicating the type of activity (teaching, research, admin, personal). I need a breakdown of my time spent in each category in one table. I realise I can do N tables, one for each tag, but this is not particularly useful for me. It'll do but if there's a nicer solution, I'll take it! The documentation refers to a :formatter entry, but I am not sure whether this is relevant as it says that this is for formatting an entry. My problem is that I want tag based entries, not how they are formatted? Apologies if I've missed something obvious in the manual! Thanks, eric -- Eric S Fraga (GnuPG: 0xC89193D8FFFCF67D)
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Eric S Fraga e.fr...@ucl.ac.uk writes: Olaf Dietsche olaf+list.orgm...@olafdietsche.de writes: Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: OK, that might be what I need then. I thought clock tables grouped things by headings, not by tags. I'll have a look at the manual. [...] #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :tags health Clock summary at [2011-11-08 Di 09:57] | Headline | Time | |--+| | *Total time* | *0:20* | |--+| | Exercises| 0:20 | #+END: clocktable I've lost the rest of this thread and I don't actually know who to attribute the original statement above... Do you mean http://www.mail-archive.com/emacs-orgmode@gnu.org/msg48633.html? In any case, I would like to have entries in the clock report by tag as opposed to headline (as alluded to above). Is this actually possible? My logging approach is to have descriptive headings (the specific task undertaken) with tags indicating the type of activity (teaching, research, admin, personal). I need a breakdown of my time spent in each category in one table. I realise I can do N tables, one for each tag, but this is not particularly useful for me. It'll do but if there's a nicer solution, I'll take it! The documentation refers to a :formatter entry, but I am not sure whether this is relevant as it says that this is for formatting an entry. My problem is that I want tag based entries, not how they are formatted? Apologies if I've missed something obvious in the manual! Regards, Olaf
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
... it depends on how often you require this weekly report... Ermm, weekly :-) It should be possible to write code that walks your agenda, visits the tasks, and copies and pastes the details to a temporary org buffer/file just for your chronological report. Absolutely. But as I've been thinking about this, I'm realizing that in fact a key input requirement (as opposed to my two output requirements -- chronology plus clock tables) is ease of entry. As I begin some new chunk of work, I don't want to have to hunt around for the most appropriate heading to clock into and begin writing notes under. As a result, what's happening is two things. First, I'm just falling back on your single Organization catch-all task; second, I'm not writing *any* notes. With a chronological journal, there's no decision to be made. You just start logging at the end (or start) of the journal. But maybe something in the org-capture area is what I need. I've tried it before and didn't get very far, but I'll have another look. thanks, Tommy
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
On Nov 8, 2011, at 9:06 AM, Tommy Kelly wrote: ... it depends on how often you require this weekly report... Ermm, weekly :-) It should be possible to write code that walks your agenda, visits the tasks, and copies and pastes the details to a temporary org buffer/file just for your chronological report. Absolutely. But as I've been thinking about this, I'm realizing that in fact a key input requirement (as opposed to my two output requirements -- chronology plus clock tables) is ease of entry. As I begin some new chunk of work, I don't want to have to hunt around for the most appropriate heading to clock into and begin writing notes under. As a result, what's happening is two things. First, I'm just falling back on your single Organization catch-all task; second, I'm not writing *any* notes. With a chronological journal, there's no decision to be made. You just start logging at the end (or start) of the journal. But maybe something in the org-capture area is what I need. I've tried it before and didn't get very far, but I'll have another look. Yes, capture you notes into a date tree and turn on the clock whenever you start a new entry! - Carsten
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: OK, that might be what I need then. I thought clock tables grouped things by headings, not by tags. I'll have a look at the manual. I'm trying the tagging thing within clock tables, but I can't get it working at all. I've attached a tag to a single headline, and checked that I've got that right by using C-c a m. Then I added a :tags item to my clock table block but it seems to have no effect. Is this valid: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :indent :tags test_tag #+END: I've also tried :tags 'test_tag', :tags '+test_tag' and a bunch of other things, but nothing seems to do anything. What I was expecting was that my clock table, currently filled with lots of items, would be reduced to looking only at the single headline that I've tagged. But it's not -- it just stays as it was before. I haven't tried this myself, just looking at the manual. But playing around, it seems you need double quotes around your tags match. Here's a simple example for a start: Tagged clock tables -*- mode: org; fill-column: 78 -*- * Shopping :errands: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 09:45]--[2011-11-07 Mo 09:50] = 0:05 :END: * Cleaning:house: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 08:50]--[2011-11-07 Mo 09:05] = 0:15 :END: * Kids :children: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 08:30]--[2011-11-07 Mo 08:50] = 0:20 :END: * Homework :children: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 13:40]--[2011-11-07 Mo 14:05] = 0:25 :END: * Exercises :health: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 07:30]--[2011-11-07 Mo 07:50] = 0:20 :END: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :tags health Clock summary at [2011-11-08 Di 09:57] | Headline | Time | |--+| | *Total time* | *0:20* | |--+| | Exercises| 0:20 | #+END: clocktable #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :tags children Clock summary at [2011-11-08 Di 09:58] | Headline | Time | |--+| | *Total time* | *0:45* | |--+| | Kids | 0:20 | | Homework | 0:25 | #+END: clocktable Regards, Olaf
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
On Nov 8, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Olaf Dietsche wrote: Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: OK, that might be what I need then. I thought clock tables grouped things by headings, not by tags. I'll have a look at the manual. I'm trying the tagging thing within clock tables, but I can't get it working at all. I've attached a tag to a single headline, and checked that I've got that right by using C-c a m. Then I added a :tags item to my clock table block but it seems to have no effect. Is this valid: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :indent :tags test_tag #+END: I've also tried :tags 'test_tag', :tags '+test_tag' and a bunch of other things, but nothing seems to do anything. What I was expecting was that my clock table, currently filled with lots of items, would be reduced to looking only at the single headline that I've tagged. But it's not -- it just stays as it was before. I haven't tried this myself, just looking at the manual. But playing around, it seems you need double quotes around your tags match. Yes. The clock table parameters are read as lisp syntax, and the match is a string. HTH - Carsten Here's a simple example for a start: Tagged clock tables -*- mode: org; fill-column: 78 -*- * Shopping:errands: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 09:45]--[2011-11-07 Mo 09:50] = 0:05 :END: * Cleaning :house: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 08:50]--[2011-11-07 Mo 09:05] = 0:15 :END: * Kids :children: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 08:30]--[2011-11-07 Mo 08:50] = 0:20 :END: * Homework :children: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 13:40]--[2011-11-07 Mo 14:05] = 0:25 :END: * Exercises:health: :CLOCK: CLOCK: [2011-11-07 Mo 07:30]--[2011-11-07 Mo 07:50] = 0:20 :END: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :tags health Clock summary at [2011-11-08 Di 09:57] | Headline | Time | |--+| | *Total time* | *0:20* | |--+| | Exercises| 0:20 | #+END: clocktable #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :tags children Clock summary at [2011-11-08 Di 09:58] | Headline | Time | |--+| | *Total time* | *0:45* | |--+| | Kids | 0:20 | | Homework | 0:25 | #+END: clocktable Regards, Olaf - Carsten
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
I haven't tried this myself, just looking at the manual. But playing around, it seems you need double quotes around your tags match. Ah OK, that works. But it turns out there was a second problem and it may be a bug. It looks like any of the clocktable options after :indent get ignored. So this works: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :tags test_tag :indent #+END: But this doesn't (i.e. the :tags option is ignored) #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :indent :tags test_tag #+END: Tommy
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
On Nov 8, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Tommy Kelly wrote: I haven't tried this myself, just looking at the manual. But playing around, it seems you need double quotes around your tags match. Ah OK, that works. But it turns out there was a second problem and it may be a bug. It looks like any of the clocktable options after :indent get ignored. So this works: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :tags test_tag :indent #+END: But this doesn't (i.e. the :tags option is ignored) #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :indent :tags test_tag You need :indent t This is a property list, each key needs a value. - Carsten
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Hi Carsten, Carsten Dominik wrote: On Nov 8, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Tommy Kelly wrote: I haven't tried this myself, just looking at the manual. But playing around, it seems you need double quotes around your tags match. Ah OK, that works. But it turns out there was a second problem and it may be a bug. It looks like any of the clocktable options after :indent get ignored. So this works: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :tags test_tag :indent #+END: But this doesn't (i.e. the :tags option is ignored) #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :indent :tags test_tag You need :indent t This is a property list, each key needs a value. This makes sense. But why did his first example work, then? There is no `t' either. Best regards, Seb -- Sebastien Vauban
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
On Nov 8, 2011, at 11:05 AM, Sebastien Vauban wrote: Hi Carsten, Carsten Dominik wrote: On Nov 8, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Tommy Kelly wrote: I haven't tried this myself, just looking at the manual. But playing around, it seems you need double quotes around your tags match. Ah OK, that works. But it turns out there was a second problem and it may be a bug. It looks like any of the clocktable options after :indent get ignored. So this works: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :tags test_tag :indent #+END: But this doesn't (i.e. the :tags option is ignored) #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :indent :tags test_tag You need :indent t This is a property list, each key needs a value. This makes sense. But why did his first example work, then? There is no `t' either. Probably, :indent was perceived by the code as nil, but at least it did not swallow the :tags key. - Carsten
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Hi Carsten, Carsten Dominik wrote: On Nov 8, 2011, at 11:05 AM, Sebastien Vauban wrote: Hi Carsten, Carsten Dominik wrote: On Nov 8, 2011, at 10:55 AM, Tommy Kelly wrote: I haven't tried this myself, just looking at the manual. But playing around, it seems you need double quotes around your tags match. Ah OK, that works. But it turns out there was a second problem and it may be a bug. It looks like any of the clocktable options after :indent get ignored. So this works: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :tags test_tag :indent #+END: But this doesn't (i.e. the :tags option is ignored) #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :indent :tags test_tag You need :indent t This is a property list, each key needs a value. This makes sense. But why did his first example work, then? There is no `t' either. Probably, :indent was perceived by the code as nil, but at least it did not swallow the :tags key. OK, clear. Thanks, Seb -- Sebastien Vauban
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Probably, :indent was perceived by the code as nil, but at least it did not swallow the :tags key. It wasn't. I hadn't realized about the need for a value to the property, but if it's omitted then it looks like :indent's value is perceived as true, not nil (which is why I got on so long not realizing the value was required). Tommy
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: ... it depends on how often you require this weekly report... Ermm, weekly :-) It should be possible to write code that walks your agenda, visits the tasks, and copies and pastes the details to a temporary org buffer/file just for your chronological report. Absolutely. But as I've been thinking about this, I'm realizing that in fact a key input requirement (as opposed to my two output requirements -- chronology plus clock tables) is ease of entry. As I begin some new chunk of work, I don't want to have to hunt around for the most appropriate heading to clock into and begin writing notes under. As a result, what's happening is two things. First, I'm just falling back on your single Organization catch-all task; second, I'm not writing *any* notes. With a chronological journal, there's no decision to be made. You just start logging at the end (or start) of the journal. But maybe something in the org-capture area is what I need. I've tried it before and didn't get very far, but I'll have another look. I tend to use capture mode to refile.org (all level 1 tasks) and then refile them later to the appropriate place. I clock time on the task when I create it and sometimes I end the capture task with C-c C-c (which stops the clock) and immediately switch back to it with F9-SPC in my setup. Sometime later I'll refile this item to the right place in the tree. I don't do that now - when I'm supposed to be working on it but later when I have 2 minutes to spare :) When I start something new it's C-M-r (or C-c r or whatever your capture binding is) t or n (for Todo or Note) then start entering data in the capture buffer that is being clocked. C-c C-c when done and possible switch back to it immediately with F9-SPC. I never hunt around for where a task should live when I capture it - I used to do that with multiple capture task targets and it was just too slow. Regards, Bernt
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: ... it depends on how often you require this weekly report... Ermm, weekly :-) Yes :) but if it's only for the next 3 weeks it's probably not worth the coding effort. If it's weekly for the indefinite future it might be. -Bernt
[O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
I'm trying to get org-mode to provide me with two things, but haven't found a way to do it. 1. First, I want to be able to use it like a daily engineering or science journal, logging notes as they occur, in pretty much linear fashion chronologically. Or, more to the point, I want to be able to report and look at items as they occurred, in pretty much linear fashion chronologically. Essentially I want to be able to report on activity by time of occurrence, not topic. 2. But second, I want to see clock tables covering a period of time, which groups related items together regardless of when (within the given period) they happened. Essentially I want to be able to report on actrivity by topic, not time of occurrence. I'm using some of Bernt Hansen's excellent setup, but it still isn't getting me quite where I want to be. I'll note also that the agenda's log mode doesn't really give me point 1. It simply lists the *headlines* which have a clock entry or timestamp at a given time. I want to see my entire journal -- a la a blog. (*Ideally* I'd like to be able to control the depth to which that entire journal output went to, but seeing the whole shebang would be a good start.) Anyone have any ideas how to do this. thanks, Tommy
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: I'm trying to get org-mode to provide me with two things, but haven't found a way to do it. 1. First, I want to be able to use it like a daily engineering or science journal, logging notes as they occur, in pretty much linear fashion chronologically. Or, more to the point, I want to be able to report and look at items as they occurred, in pretty much linear fashion chronologically. Essentially I want to be able to report on activity by time of occurrence, not topic. 2. But second, I want to see clock tables covering a period of time, which groups related items together regardless of when (within the given period) they happened. Essentially I want to be able to report on actrivity by topic, not time of occurrence. I'm using some of Bernt Hansen's excellent setup, but it still isn't getting me quite where I want to be. I'll note also that the agenda's log mode doesn't really give me point 1. It simply lists the *headlines* which have a clock entry or timestamp at a given time. I want to see my entire journal -- a la a blog. (*Ideally* I'd like to be able to control the depth to which that entire journal output went to, but seeing the whole shebang would be a good start.) Anyone have any ideas how to do this. Hi Tommy, For item 1) can you use the display of inactive timestamps to get part of the information you want in the agenda and then visit the items with either follow mode (F) or manually visit each item with SPC to get more detail? If you create an inactive timestamp for every new note you log you can display that timestamp with [ or ] in the agenda. This is what I do. For item 2) I would use agenda clock reports R while displaying the agenda time frame you are interested in. You can limit the agenda to certain tags and use C-u R to limit the clock report to only those tags. HTH, Bernt
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: I'm trying to get org-mode to provide me with two things, but haven't found a way to do it. 1. First, I want to be able to use it like a daily engineering or science journal, logging notes as they occur, in pretty much linear fashion chronologically. Or, more to the point, I want to be able to report and look at items as they occurred, in pretty much linear fashion chronologically. Essentially I want to be able to report on activity by time of occurrence, not topic. 2. But second, I want to see clock tables covering a period of time, which groups related items together regardless of when (within the given period) they happened. Essentially I want to be able to report on actrivity by topic, not time of occurrence. I'm using some of Bernt Hansen's excellent setup, but it still isn't getting me quite where I want to be. I'll note also that the agenda's log mode doesn't really give me point 1. It simply lists the *headlines* which have a clock entry or timestamp at a given time. I want to see my entire journal -- a la a blog. (*Ideally* I'd like to be able to control the depth to which that entire journal output went to, but seeing the whole shebang would be a good start.) Maybe I misunderstand what you want to accomplish, but if you put your journal into a separate file (e.g. journal.org), you could load it as any other file into emacs and look at it. With org-cycle (C-u TAB) you can fold everything and open selected entries (TAB on a single headline) if you want. You can create clock tables and select reported items by tags. So, if you tag your journal entries, you can create clock tables made up of a few entries only. See the org manual: The clock table. Regards, Olaf
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Olaf wrote: Maybe I misunderstand what you want to accomplish, but if you put your journal into a separate file (e.g. journal.org), ... That's pretty much what I want. But if I do that I then have trouble with getting sensible clock tables. For example, suppose I had: *** Headline about some activity on Project A CLOCK: [from]--[to] = duration notes notes notes *** Headline about some activity on Project B CLOCK: [from]--[to] = duration more notes notes note *** Headline about some other activity on Project A CLOCK: [from]--[to] = duration yet more notes notes Adding those as a chronological journal lets me get a report of chronology, but it won't let me have a clock table with the times for the two on Project A activities combined into one. Will it? Of course I could shove the Project A activities under one single higher-level headline, but that than violates the chronology side of things (in the sense that I want to enter things into my journal in chronological order, just as I would in a paper log book). You can create clock tables and select reported items by tags. So, if you tag your journal entries, you can create clock tables made up of a few entries only. OK, that might be what I need then. I thought clock tables grouped things by headings, not by tags. I'll have a look at the manual. thanks, Tommy
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Bernt wrote: For item 1) can you use the display of inactive timestamps to get part of the information you want in the agenda and then visit the items with either follow mode (F) or manually visit each item with SPC to get more detail? Thanks. That's pretty much exactly my workaround now. So I enter data all over the place in my file, so as to preserve position with respect to headings (so my clock table is correct). Therefore the only way to get the journal-style output seems to be as you suggest. The problem is, at the end of the week, when I want to output a report of what I did, it's a fairly manual task. It's true that even with a chronological report I wouldn't necessarily leave the chronological output as-is, with no editing or grouping. But it will be *much* easier to get what I want if I can start with a simple linear-time report of everything, than if I have to work my way through the weekly agenda in follow mode. Tommy
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
OK, that might be what I need then. I thought clock tables grouped things by headings, not by tags. I'll have a look at the manual. I'm trying the tagging thing within clock tables, but I can't get it working at all. I've attached a tag to a single headline, and checked that I've got that right by using C-c a m. Then I added a :tags item to my clock table block but it seems to have no effect. Is this valid: #+BEGIN: clocktable :maxlevel 2 :scope file :block thisweek :step week :indent :tags test_tag #+END: I've also tried :tags 'test_tag', :tags '+test_tag' and a bunch of other things, but nothing seems to do anything. What I was expecting was that my clock table, currently filled with lots of items, would be reduced to looking only at the single headline that I've tagged. But it's not -- it just stays as it was before. What am I doing wrong? thx, Tommy
Re: [O] Journal versus clock tables: Opposing requirements?
Tommy Kelly tommy.ke...@verilab.com writes: Bernt wrote: For item 1) can you use the display of inactive timestamps to get part of the information you want in the agenda and then visit the items with either follow mode (F) or manually visit each item with SPC to get more detail? Thanks. That's pretty much exactly my workaround now. So I enter data all over the place in my file, so as to preserve position with respect to headings (so my clock table is correct). Therefore the only way to get the journal-style output seems to be as you suggest. The problem is, at the end of the week, when I want to output a report of what I did, it's a fairly manual task. It's true that even with a chronological report I wouldn't necessarily leave the chronological output as-is, with no editing or grouping. But it will be *much* easier to get what I want if I can start with a simple linear-time report of everything, than if I have to work my way through the weekly agenda in follow mode. If you can manually create your report (even if it is tedious) then it should be possible to automate most of it. This is Emacs after all - you can program it to do whatever you need it to do. It should be possible to write code that walks your agenda, visits the tasks, and copies and pastes the details to a temporary org buffer/file just for your chronological report. I have no idea what that code would look like though... it depends on how often you require this weekly report if writing that code would be worth it or not. Regards, Bernt
