Re: 10Kv Surge unit to EN60065 standards
EMC Master from Netherlands. Repped in US by Richard Janiec on Long Island. -- From: Aschenberg, Mat matt.aschenb...@echostar.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: 10Kv Surge unit to EN60065 standards Date: Thu, Nov 18, 1999, 10:53 AM Hi all, I am looking for a 10KV surge unit. I understand that Keytek has one, but I think that it is overpriced. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes these devices? It is a European standard, are there European companies making these? Thanks, Mat Aschenberg - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Floating Circuits - Protection Against Electric Shock
Is this article in *.pdf format for any to pick up? - Robert - -Original Message- From: John Juhasz jjuh...@fiberoptions.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; 'ri...@ieee.org' ri...@ieee.org Date: Thursday, November 18, 1999 12:09 PM Subject: Floating Circuits - Protection Against Electric Shock Just received the latest issue (Nov)of 'Conformity' newsletter from Curtis-Straus. I see that one of our regulars (board-master?) on this board, Rich Nute, had his article, 'Floating Circuits-Protection Against Electric Shock' published in the newsletter. Nice article Rich! Are those your illustrations too? I find the guy in the picture amusing! John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY
Floating Circuits - Protection Against Electric Shock
Just received the latest issue (Nov)of 'Conformity' newsletter from Curtis-Straus. I see that one of our regulars (board-master?) on this board, Rich Nute, had his article, 'Floating Circuits-Protection Against Electric Shock' published in the newsletter. Nice article Rich! Are those your illustrations too? I find the guy in the picture amusing! John Juhasz Fiber Options Bohemia, NY
Auatralian Communications Authority (ACA) C-Tick Question
To all, Does a power supply for use in Australia have to be individually C-Tick marked.? If it were connected to another product that was C-Tick marked and sold as part of that system (With a requisite C-Tick folder) would the power supply still have to be individually C-tick marked. ? Thanks in advance for any responses. Also want to thank previous responders to other questions, appreciate the fact that people take time to respond. Sandy Mazzola - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: POWER CORDS FOR SOUTH AMERICA.
George- The South American countries use the IEC standards as the basis for compliance, so you would want to use the IEC wire colors if you are going to meet the requirements there. Regards, Jeff -Original Message- From: George Waters [mailto:gwat...@digiceiver.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:03 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: POWER CORDS FOR SOUTH AMERICA. I need help on power cords for South America. We are supplying our US customer with product that he mostly uses in the US. He will however be shipping a few hundred to various South American countries. The power cord which we have packed with the units, has an IEC connector on one end, and a US 3 prong plug on the other. The customer plans to cut off the US plug and terminate the wire with appropriate plug to suit the country. The IEC connector is marked 250VAC, and the SVT cable is 300 VAC. That appears to meet all needs. When tried the process here and cut off one of the plugs. That is where we found that the internal wire color code is black/white/green, and not the IEC colors of blue/brown/green-yellow which we thought we had been purchasing. So my question is, do any of the South American countries have requirements on wire colors in free standing power cords? The equipment is not consumer equipment, and will be installed in company equipment rooms so there will be skilled people doing the installation. George - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
10Kv Surge unit to EN60065 standards
Hi all, I am looking for a 10KV surge unit. I understand that Keytek has one, but I think that it is overpriced. Does anyone know of a manufacturer that makes these devices? It is a European standard, are there European companies making these? Thanks, Mat Aschenberg - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
FW: Printed Wiring Board Design for Safety Compliance
Posted for: wolfgang_josenh...@3com.com -Original Message- From: wolfgang_josenh...@3com.com [SMTP:wolfgang_josenh...@3com.com] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 7:56 AM To: Rains,Mike Cc: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: Re: Printed Wiring Board Design for Safety Compliance Mike, We design analog modems which require basic insulation from selv and TNV3 (telco). Typically, we place a 2.5 mm wide keep out in our PCB design (in all layers) to ensure creepage and clearance distances are met. We use Allegro for PCB design and Viewlogic for schematic capture. In both tools there exists the option to define properties of components and nets to define which parts and nets should be isolated . These properties would be entered in Viewlogic and imported into Allegro. During PCB layout, we utilize Allegro to evaluate routing for EMC concerns. Regards, Wolf Josenhans Rains,Mike mra...@foxboro.com on 11/17/99 02:20:33 PM Please respond to Rains,Mike mra...@foxboro.com Sent by: Rains,Mike mra...@foxboro.com To: 'emc-pstc @ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org cc:(Wolfgang Josenhans/MW/US/3Com) Subject: Printed Wiring Board Design for Safety Compliance Colleagues, I am curious to know how you handle PWB design for safety compliance: 1. How do you document the required spacings on the schematics? 2. Do you use tools provided by your schematic entry system (ViewLogic, Valid or whatever) to enter these requirements? 3. Does your PWB layout system import these requirements from your schematic entry system and automatically ensure they are maintained as the board is designed? 4. How do you view the different circuit segments once the board is designed? That is, how do you visually verify that spacings are maintained between all segments on a single layer and through multiple layers? The reason that I'm asking is that this is an area of interest here. Our boards are typically six layer, very densely populated and can have ac mains, SELV and intrinsically safe circuit segments. We are developing ways to try and reduce human error and effort in designing these boards. I would be interested to know if anyone else has an interest in this subject. Thanks. Best regards, Mike Rains Foxboro Co. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: RE: internet information
Laura, The gauge you listed is 0.75 sq-mm which is suitable up to 6 amperes according to IEC 60335-1. Also, check EN 60799 for more information on cord sets. BTW. Who is your cord set supplier? Regards, +=+ |Ronald R. Wellman|Voice : 408-345-8229 | |Agilent Technologies |FAX : 408-345-8630 | |5301 Stevens Creek Blvd.,|E-Mail: ron_well...@agilent.com| |Mailstop 51L-SQ |WWW : http://www.agilent.com | |Santa Clara, California 95052 USA| | +=+ | Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age | | eighteen. - Albert Einstein | +=+ -Original Message- From: Non-HP-LNewton /HP-PaloAlto,mimegw3/dd.HPMEXT1=lnew...@hach.com Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 11:55 AM To: Non-HP-Chris.Colgan /HP-PaloAlto,mimegw3/dd.HPMEXT1=chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com; Non-HP-LNewton /HP-PaloAlto,mimegw3/dd.HPMEXT1=lnew...@hach.com; Non-HP-emc-pstc /HP-PaloAlto,mimegw3/dd.HPMEXT1=emc-p...@ieee.org Cc: Non-HP-LNewton /HP-PaloAlto,mimegw3/dd.HPMEXT1=lnew...@hach.com Subject: RE: internet information We are trying to determine the proper fusing for the UK power cord. The products we will be using the cord set on will never exceed 3amps in normal operating conditions. For the power cord set the Manufacturer has provided us with the following information: BSI/ASTA Approved British Male to International Female, HO3VVF3G0.75 Unshielded, Length: 8', Color: Black. The Manufacturer has asked us to specify a fuse of either 5A or 10A, with the information above how can we determine on whether a 5A or a 10A fuse should be used being that the gauge was not listed? Thanks a lot for the previous help and also thanks in advance for any help you can give me, -Laura -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:42 AM To: 'Laura Leyba-Newton'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: RE: internet information Laura Re. the power cord. SI No.1768 requires UK consumer products to be fitted with a plug conforming to BS1363. Both BS1363 and SI 1768 require the plug to be fused. The fuse value is determined by the cross sectional area of the power cord conductors. I doubt that you could find an unfused UK power cord set anyway. Hope this helps Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: Laura Leyba-Newton [SMTP:lnew...@hach.com] Sent: 16 November 1999 18:36 To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: internet information Could someone please tell me where previous EMC and safety discussions are posted on the internet. Also I am interested to know if a detachable UK power Cord is required to be fused. Products using this line cord have integral fuses in both AC lines. You help would be greatly appreciated. -Laura - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). = Authorised on 11/17/99 at 09:42:16; code 37f48bf3F2F6C214. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
USB 2.0 Filtering
Hi all. I have recently started looking into the filtering requirements for USB 2.0. I had originally thought of using common mode chokes at the connector, then I found out that the EOP (End of Packet) was a common mode signal. Bummer. Has anyone explored the filtering/compliance aspects of USB 2.0? Any information would be helpful. Thanks in advance. Chuck Jackson JTCubed - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Regulatory safety Requirements for the US
There are two sets of regulations: one for domestic equipment and one for work place equipment. Domestic: There are no federal laws except that the product must be safe. Some states (e.g. Maryland), counties (e.g., Orange, CA) and cities (e.g., San Francisco) have laws that require products to be Listed. Products that are permanently wired into the building must also comply with the local electrical code which is most likely built upon the National Electrical Code. Some local codes have additional provisions - e.g., cities along the west coast have requirements for resistance to earthquakes. The electrical code requires the item to be Listed or accepted by the inspector - don't rely on the later. Work place: OSHA and the local electrical codes govern equipment in the work place. OSHA regulations govern pluggable and permanent equipment and the electrical code governs permanent equipment. The OSHA regulations are build upon an earlier version of the National Electrical Code. OSHA basically requires the equipment to be Listed, but there is a technical way out of that which is not recommended. Again, the electrical code requires the equipment to be Listed or accepted by the electrical inspector. Lastly, the fire insurance companies may have a say. The contract with their customer may require that all electrical equipment be Listed. Adding all of this up, it is accepted by most that Listing is an absolute requirement in the United States. Having said that, there is one set of equipment that does not require Listing - i.e., equipment that operates from a Class 2 power source per Section 725 of the National Electrical Code. Richard Woods -- From: duncan.ho...@snellwilcox.com [SMTP:duncan.ho...@snellwilcox.com] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 8:36 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Regulatory safety Requirements for the US Group, Forgive me if this subject has been covered before but I am finding it very hard to determine the EXACT regulatory requirements for the states. As far as I understand it is the responsibility of the installer or business using electrical equipment to ensure that it satisfies the requirements of the national wiring code and OSHA. To do this recognition or listing by an NRTL is required. Is it correct to assume that as manufacturers there is no mandate that equipment must be recognised by an NRTL although the customer will almost certainly want this to forfil his obligations. I am just trying to get a definitive statement on what is mandated by law (and which law mandates it) and what is standard practice for safety compliance in the US. As a general rule all equipment we ship to the states is UL listed but this question keeps getting circulated and asked to me why do we need to do this. My answer is that it is the responsible thing to do and that it proves due diligence, although I am sure that there is a legal reason behind this. It just seems a bit of a hazy issue and one that I would like to get a definitive answer on. Many thanks in advance, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: impact /probes
There is some drag established in the tube, so drill several holes along the length, to let the air our. One of the NRTLs questioned us when using the tube without the holes, and then suggested putting them in. You can also make the tube slightly longer, and then drill a hole through both sides at the top. Place a screwdriver or something similar through the holes, and rest the ball on top. You now have a simple release mechanism. James Goedderz Sensormatic -- From: Colgan, Chris[SMTP:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com] Reply To: Colgan, Chris Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 6:00 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: impact /probes Hi group Most of you experienced ball droppers probably already know this but for those of you that are new to the game I thought I should share this handy hint with you... Buy some ordinary drain pipe from your local hardware store and cut it to length the same as the height you need to drop the ball to obtain the required impact force. Place the pipe over the bit of the product you need to bash and drop away. The advantages are: You don't need to remember or recalculate the height you need to drop the ball The height is calibrated The ball doesn't roll behind the nearest filing cabinet Your toes aren't subject to the test. This is how they perform the impact test at CSA Toronto PS - I made all my own probes out of plastic rod, old screw drivers, bolts and bits of wood (and a coin probe out of coins!). CSA and NEMKO have never complained. Regards Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: Price, Ed [SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com] Sent: 17 November 1999 16:39 To: 'Rich Nute'; rpick...@hypercom.com Cc: dwight.hunnic...@vina-tech.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:RE: impact /probes I don't normally go around dropping steel balls on things, but if I wanted to be a purist about it, I would hold the ball by an electromagnet, so I wouldn't have to alter the shape and mass of the ball by drilling or affixing an eyelet. It also sounds like more fun. Ed :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):- ) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 619-505-2780 (Voice) 619-505-1502 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):- ) -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [SMTP:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:55 PM To: rpick...@hypercom.com Cc: dwight.hunnic...@vina-tech.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: impact /probes BTW, you may find a 50mm diameter ball bearing, but will it weigh 500g +/-25g? And then you'l have to drill and tap it for an eyelet for the string. The impact ball spec was written around a 2-inch diameter ball bearing. Drilling and tapping the ball bearing requires some sort of arc-drilling equipment (because of the hardness of the ball bearing). Best regards, Rich - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). = Authorised on 11/18/99 at 11:01:38; code 37f48bf3EF969762. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list
RE: Shielded Enclosure Fire Hazard - Wrong Scott
Egon (and fellow list members), I think you meant to reply to Scott Douglas. Lately, I have received several emails which were replies to him. Since most of them were probably initiated by clicking on the Reply button, I suspect some internet glitch is at fault. Scott's company is located about 40 miles north of us, so our email probably follows similar paths. List members: When replying, double-click on the alias (the name which appears on the To line) to bring up the Properties dialog box. The email address for Scott Douglas is: s_doug...@ecrm.com mailto:s_doug...@ecrm.com My email address is: sla...@foxboro.com mailto:sla...@foxboro.com Ain't computers wonderful :-) Scott Lacey -Original Message- From: Egon H. Varju [SMTP:e...@varju.bc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 8:06 PM To: EMC-PSTC Subject:RE: Shielded Enclosure Fire Hazard Scott, I presume you mean Halon, not halogen. Sorry, but Halon systems are neither invisible nor odourless. When you set one off, the room fills with a smoky haze that has quite a strong odour. I presume that this is due to additives that are included for the very purpose of making it obvious. By the way, when you set one of these things off, there is a very loud, explosive noise. Not sure if this is due to an explosives charge opening the pressurized cylinder, or just the explosive expansion of the gas. Regardless, you'd have to be deaf (and blind) to not realize that the system had deployed. In a previous incarnation, I used to work on oil rigs in the Arctic Ocean. I once had the dubious distinction of setting one of these things off (due to a tantalum cap on one of my PWBs). Just imagine sitting there in the middle of winter, in that complete silence of the Arctic, and all of a sudden there is this incredible explosion and smoke ... Needless to say, a change of underwear was in order. No, there is no danger of missing the fact that there is halon in the air. As for breathing the stuff, I'm not aware of any actual harm. Yes, it displaces the normal oxygen, so you obviously can't live on it, but it's not poisonous, just neutral. I'm sure I got quite a lungfull of the stuff, but there was no harm done. No big deal. Egon :-) At 12:25 PM 17/11/1999 , you wrote: - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Regulatory safety Requirements for the US
Group, Forgive me if this subject has been covered before but I am finding it very hard to determine the EXACT regulatory requirements for the states. As far as I understand it is the responsibility of the installer or business using electrical equipment to ensure that it satisfies the requirements of the national wiring code and OSHA. To do this recognition or listing by an NRTL is required. Is it correct to assume that as manufacturers there is no mandate that equipment must be recognised by an NRTL although the customer will almost certainly want this to forfil his obligations. I am just trying to get a definitive statement on what is mandated by law (and which law mandates it) and what is standard practice for safety compliance in the US. As a general rule all equipment we ship to the states is UL listed but this question keeps getting circulated and asked to me why do we need to do this. My answer is that it is the responsible thing to do and that it proves due diligence, although I am sure that there is a legal reason behind this. It just seems a bit of a hazy issue and one that I would like to get a definitive answer on. Many thanks in advance, Duncan. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Measuring Capacitance in HV circuits
Replace the load with a resistor, turn off the power, record the decay on a storage scope and compute the RC time constant. Richard Woods -- From: Brian Kunde at LECO [SMTP:bkundew...@qtm.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 4:00 PM To: IEEE Group Subject: Measuring Capacitance in HV circuits Hello Group, In EN61010, section 6.3 says, If the voltage exceeds the value listed in 6.3.1 or 6.3.2, the current and capacitance shall be measured. I understand how to measure current (6.3.1.2) with the circuit in Annex A, but how do I measure Capacitance for section 6.3.1.3? It doesn't seem right to try and measure a complex circuit while powered off with a conventional capacitance meter. How else can this be done? Any help would be appreciated. Brian Kunde MORE INFORMATION I have an instrument that places 2500 volts in an area that the operator has to have access to. We are attempting to verify that this circuit meets the requirements of a limited current circuit by applying the requirements of section 6.3.. When applying the loading circuit described in Annex A the voltage is loaded down to a point where the HV circuit shuts down. To my understanding, doing so meets the requirements of 6.3.1.2.. But, when you first apply the loading circuit to the HV circuit you see a small arc or spark, so I'm assuming there is some discharged energy that exists before the HV Circuit shuts off. I assume this issue would be covered under the Capacitance measurement in section 6.3.1.3 but I have no idea how to make this measurement. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
IEC 60079-11:1999
Hi Members In the latest edition of IEC 79-11 (Intrinsic safety) the gas mixtures were changed from the 1991 edition to use only hydrogen and air or Oxygen in the mixture. Has anybody started to use this method and do you also experience a more violent explosion during the calibration of the spark test compared to the 1991 edition of the gas mixtures ? Thanks for the input, Lizette de Vries-Venter ELECTRONIC ENGINEER Department: Explosion Prevention Technology SABS Tel : +27 12 428 6990 Fax: +27 12 428 6854 Email : dvve...@sabs.co.za - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Printed Wiring Board Design for Safety Compliance
Mike, We have a TNV3 ISDN interface on most of our products. We hand place and route the isolated circuitry, then generate a keep out area, on all layers, with a generous spacing round all the tracks and pads. The autorouter then has the rest of the board to play with. Regards, Geoff Lister geoff.lis...@motionmedia.co.uk Senior Engineer Motion Media Technology Ltd., Horton Hall, Horton, Bristol, BS37 6QN, UK Direct: +44 (0) 1454 338561ISDN: +44 (0) 1454 338554 Switchboard: +44 (0) 1454 313444 Fax: +44 (0) 1454 313678 On 17 November 1999 20:21, Rains,Mike [SMTP:mra...@foxboro.com] wrote: Colleagues, I am curious to know how you handle PWB design for safety compliance: 1.How do you document the required spacings on the schematics? 2.Do you use tools provided by your schematic entry system (ViewLogic, Valid or whatever) to enter these requirements? 3.Does your PWB layout system import these requirements from your schematic entry system and automatically ensure they are maintained as the board is designed? 4.How do you view the different circuit segments once the board is designed? That is, how do you visually verify that spacings are maintained between all segments on a single layer and through multiple layers? The reason that I'm asking is that this is an area of interest here. Our boards are typically six layer, very densely populated and can have ac mains, SELV and intrinsically safe circuit segments. We are developing ways to try and reduce human error and effort in designing these boards. I would be interested to know if anyone else has an interest in this subject. Thanks. Best regards, Mike Rains Foxboro Co. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: IEC 60079-11:1999
The gas mixture in IEC60079-11 that uses oxygen is an option. You are still able to use the 21 +/- 2% that is quoted in 10.1.2 of the standard. The 30% H2, 53% Air, 17% N2 is to allow you to put the safety factor on the gas mixture instead of putting it on either the voltage or current. The ignition during the calibration is more violent because of this. Best regards Nicholas Ludlam Factory Mutual Research Tel: (781) 255 4847 Fax: (781) 762 9375 http://www.fmglobal.com -Original Message- From: DVVENTL Lizette de Vries-Vente [mailto:dvve...@mail.sabs.co.za] Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 7:50 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: IEC 60079-11:1999 Hi Members In the latest edition of IEC 79-11 (Intrinsic safety) the gas mixtures were changed from the 1991 edition to use only hydrogen and air or Oxygen in the mixture. Has anybody started to use this method and do you also experience a more violent explosion during the calibration of the spark test compared to the 1991 edition of the gas mixtures ? Thanks for the input, Lizette de Vries-Venter ELECTRONIC ENGINEER Department: Explosion Prevention Technology SABS Tel : +27 12 428 6990 Fax: +27 12 428 6854 Email : dvve...@sabs.co.za - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: impact /probes
Hi group Most of you experienced ball droppers probably already know this but for those of you that are new to the game I thought I should share this handy hint with you... Buy some ordinary drain pipe from your local hardware store and cut it to length the same as the height you need to drop the ball to obtain the required impact force. Place the pipe over the bit of the product you need to bash and drop away. The advantages are: You don't need to remember or recalculate the height you need to drop the ball The height is calibrated The ball doesn't roll behind the nearest filing cabinet Your toes aren't subject to the test. This is how they perform the impact test at CSA Toronto PS - I made all my own probes out of plastic rod, old screw drivers, bolts and bits of wood (and a coin probe out of coins!). CSA and NEMKO have never complained. Regards Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: Price, Ed [SMTP:ed.pr...@cubic.com] Sent: 17 November 1999 16:39 To: 'Rich Nute'; rpick...@hypercom.com Cc: dwight.hunnic...@vina-tech.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: impact /probes I don't normally go around dropping steel balls on things, but if I wanted to be a purist about it, I would hold the ball by an electromagnet, so I wouldn't have to alter the shape and mass of the ball by drilling or affixing an eyelet. It also sounds like more fun. Ed :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):- ) Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 619-505-2780 (Voice) 619-505-1502 (Fax) Military Avionics EMC Services Is Our Specialty Shake-Bake-Shock - Metrology - Reliability Analysis :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):- ) -Original Message- From: Rich Nute [SMTP:ri...@sdd.hp.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 8:55 PM To: rpick...@hypercom.com Cc: dwight.hunnic...@vina-tech.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject:Re: impact /probes BTW, you may find a 50mm diameter ball bearing, but will it weigh 500g +/-25g? And then you'l have to drill and tap it for an eyelet for the string. The impact ball spec was written around a 2-inch diameter ball bearing. Drilling and tapping the ball bearing requires some sort of arc-drilling equipment (because of the hardness of the ball bearing). Best regards, Rich - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). = Authorised on 11/18/99 at 11:01:38; code 37f48bf3EF969762. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: internet information
Laura BS1363, table 2 gives the maximum fuse rating for certain sizes of cable. Cord sizeRated current Fuse rating 0.50mmsq 3A 3A(5A)* 0.75mmsq 6A 13A 1mmsq 10A 13A 1.25mmsq 13A 13A 1.50mmsq 13A 13A *The figure in brackets indicates the fuse rating when a non-rewireable plug/cord assembly is used with certain types of equipment where the use of a 5A fuse link is necessary because of high instantaneous input current. There would be no problem with fitting the plug with a 5A fuse provided it can withstand the inrush current of your product. Regards Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: Laura Leyba-Newton [SMTP:lnew...@hach.com] Sent: 17 November 1999 19:55 To: 'Colgan, Chris'; Laura Leyba-Newton; 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: RE: internet information We are trying to determine the proper fusing for the UK power cord. The products we will be using the cord set on will never exceed 3amps in normal operating conditions. For the power cord set the Manufacturer has provided us with the following information: BSI/ASTA Approved British Male to International Female, HO3VVF3G0.75 Unshielded, Length: 8', Color: Black. The Manufacturer has asked us to specify a fuse of either 5A or 10A, with the information above how can we determine on whether a 5A or a 10A fuse should be used being that the gauge was not listed? Thanks a lot for the previous help and also thanks in advance for any help you can give me, -Laura -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:42 AM To: 'Laura Leyba-Newton'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject:RE: internet information Laura Re. the power cord. SI No.1768 requires UK consumer products to be fitted with a plug conforming to BS1363. Both BS1363 and SI 1768 require the plug to be fused. The fuse value is determined by the cross sectional area of the power cord conductors. I doubt that you could find an unfused UK power cord set anyway. Hope this helps Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: Laura Leyba-Newton [SMTP:lnew...@hach.com] Sent: 16 November 1999 18:36 To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: internet information Could someone please tell me where previous EMC and safety discussions are posted on the internet. Also I am interested to know if a detachable UK power Cord is required to be fused. Products using this line cord have integral fuses in both AC lines. You help would be greatly appreciated. -Laura - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). = Authorised on 11/17/99 at 09:42:16; code 37f48bf3F2F6C214. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) = Authorised on 11/18/99 at 10:41:38; code 37f48bf382EE66CF. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon,
RE: Non flammable material
From IEC 74/510/CD, draft amendment to IEC 60950, Material flammability classifications, HBF replaced by FH-3. The new definitions are not in all cases identical to the earlier ones. I imagine the -40 in the FH3-40 you refer to is the burning rate of 40mm/min specified for HBF. A certain national committee, not too many miles from Dundee, commented on this proposal that we welcome the proposal in principle. However, in view of the widespread use of UL-recognized materials, (we) would not support the proposal being advanced to a CDV until it is agreed that IEC-rated and UL-rated materials are accepted by test houses world-wide as equivalent and interchangeable John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Kingsway West, Dundee, Scotland. DD2 3XX E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. VoicePlus 6-341-2289. -Original Message- From: raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk [SMTP:raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk] Sent: 18 November 1999 08:11 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Non flammable material Can anyone tell me where I can find the corresponding UL non flammable material of FH3-40 required in EN60065 (referenced to IEC60384-1). The material suppliers in the Far East are more familiar with UL materials than European materials. Thanks, Raymond Li - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: ISDN Access Switch for LAN/WAN
Is this an advert..? -Original Message- From: Nezam Najafi [mailto:nezam.naj...@madge.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 9:58 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: ISDN Access Switch for LAN/WAN To All: I was wondering if there is anybody out there who is interested in buying any ISDN based access switch for Video, Data, Voice call routing and networking equipment. We do have a fine products and a variety of models for Basic Rate Access and Primary Rate Access/T1/E1 networking for video conferencing and etc.. if you are interested can contact me via e-mail and phone. Regards, Nezam Najafi Madge Networks, Inc. 625 Industrial Way West Eatontown, NJ 07039 nnaj...@madge.com Voice:732-460-6825 http://www.madge.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: internet information
Sorry to add to the confusion, but the British trade association FEI publishes a document on periodic safety checks for business equipment, which includes a table of conductor sizes and fuse sizes for British plugs, with the following note: BS 1363 specifies only the use of 3 A or 13 A fuses. Conditions applicable to using a 5 A fuse with a 0.5 mm2 conductor are given in BS 1363. This seems to tie up with my (old) copy of BS1363, which specifies a 3A fuse for 0.5mm2 cord, and a 13A fuse for 0.75, 1.00, 1.25 and 1.50 mm2 cords. Adjacent to the 3A fuse rating for 0.5 mm2 cord is (5); with a note that the figure in brackets indicates the fuse rating where a non-rewirable plug/cord assy is used with certain types of equipment where the use of a 5A fuse link is necessary because of the high instantaneous input current. If anyone has the latest version of BS 1363:1984, or BS 1363:Part 1:1995, they could confirm the above. I note that in the BSI catalogue, under the entry for BS 1362 (fuses for BS 1363 plugs), it states for use in plugs complying with BS 1363, the preferred current ratings are 3A and 13A. John Crabb, Development Excellence (Product Safety) , NCR Financial Solutions Group Ltd., Kingsway West, Dundee, Scotland. DD2 3XX E-Mail :john.cr...@scotland.ncr.com Tel: +44 (0)1382-592289 (direct ). Fax +44 (0)1382-622243. VoicePlus 6-341-2289. -Original Message- From: Chris Duprés [SMTP:chris_dup...@compuserve.com] Sent: 17 November 1999 23:36 To: Laura Leyba-Newton Cc: emc-pstc Subject: RE: internet information Hi Laura. You mention wire type: HO3VVF3G0.75 This looks like 0.75mm2 cross section area cable, and should be protected by a 5A fuse. Chris Duprés Surrey, UK. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: IEC 61000-6-* series standards
In IEC 61000-6 series, the sections 1 to 4 are published, but Cenelec has adopted only the section 2 that will replace the old EN 50082-2. It is not likely that the rest will be adopted by Cenelec since IEC have actually copied them from the latest Cenelec generics, so why bother. However, the CISPR 11 is used similarly in both industrial generic emission standards. The dates for 6-2 are: EN 61000-6-2:1999 IEC 61000-6-2:1999 CLC/TC 210 . IEC/TC 77 . EMC Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC) -- Part 6-2: Generic standards - Immunity for industrial environments dor : 1999-04-01 doa : 1999-07-01 dop : 2000-01-01 dow : 2002-04-01 regards, Ari Honkala -Original Message- From: EXT cnew...@xycom.com [mailto:cnew...@xycom.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 5:36 PM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: IEC 61000-6-* series standards I've been told by a source in France that EN 50082-1 and EN 50082-2 Industrial level generic standards are going to be combined into this IEC 61000-6 series of standards. I'm also told that this series will become EN, replace the generic industrial standards, and become effective January 1, 2002. I'm skeptical, what have I missed? I'm left wondering if something has been lost in the translation between this French source and my American PC. Part of my concern here is due to the use of EN 55011 as an EMI standard. I currently use EN 50082-2 for immunity and EN 55022 for EMI. I have very good reasons for doing this. I don't want to be forced into 55011. Can someone in the group please shed some light on this issue? If this information is correct, what kind of EMI standard is going to be included in the EN 61000-6 series? Thanks, Carl Newton - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Non flammable material
Can anyone tell me where I can find the corresponding UL non flammable material of FH3-40 required in EN60065 (referenced to IEC60384-1). The material suppliers in the Far East are more familiar with UL materials than European materials. Thanks, Raymond Li - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Mexican Question
Hello Chaps, We are making a batch of test boxes that will be used during the development of our main products. They will be CE marked (of course). Some will be sent to our factory in Mexico. Now, the question is, do these test boxes need to go through the NOM approvals process? They will only be used at our factory, they will not be sold or supplied to customers. Please let me have your views. Carlos Perkins MEI - UK - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Conducted Emissions for PS output
Much clearer. I agree totally. The only justification for either MIL-STD-461-like or CISPR 22-like CE control is operation of sensitive radio receivers from or near the power bus. Absent that, only normal time domain power quality ripple limits need be applied. -- From: Brumbaugh, David david.brumba...@pss.boeing.com To: 'Ken Javor' ken.ja...@emccompliance.com Cc: 'emc-pstc' emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: Conducted Emissions for PS output Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999, 5:25 PM Maybe I've been working on space systems too long...you can draw your own conclusions about that. At any rate, even though it isn't likely to be what Derek was after in the first place, let me try to make my statement clearer: What I was referring to was the distinction between a power converter (e.g., dc-dc converter) for a single LRU in a large system, in contrast to a unit that is a power supply (like a DDCU on the space station) that is converting power from an unregulated source (let's say a solar panel) and providing regulated power to a number of units on a power bus. The former would typically have a much more stringent output ripple requirement (as indicated by Robert Macy) than the latter. DB -- From: Ken Javor[SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 3:39 PM To: Brumbaugh, David; EMC Discussion Group; 'Derek Walton' Subject: Re: Conducted Emissions for PS output Re this: If the power supply is for a single unit utilizing a common power bus for the power supply input, then the output ripple of the supply might need to be controlled more stringently, perhaps on the order of tens of millivolts. Huh? Maybe I've been in Alabama too long, but I don't understand what you are saying. -- From: Brumbaugh, David david.brumba...@pss.boeing.com To: EMC Discussion Group emc-p...@ieee.org, 'Derek Walton' l...@rols1.net Subject: RE: Conducted Emissions for PS output Date: Wed, Nov 17, 1999, 7:52 AM If the power supply is for a single unit utilizing a common power bus for the power supply input, then the output ripple of the supply might need to be controlled more stringently, perhaps on the order of tens of millivolts. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Conducted Emissions for PS output
Derek: In the US (or Canada) I am not aware of any FCC or I.C. documents that limit conducted emissions from the output of a power supply or battery charger. In Europe, for CE Mark purposes, you definitely need to have a look at the applicable EN's, because some of them do have requirements for this sort of thing. Last time I looked, there wasn't a product-specific EN for EMC for battery chargers. The generic emissions standard (EN50081-1) showed limits for DC outputs as under consideration last time I looked. The household equipment emissions standard (EN 55014) does have requirements for load terminals, although I think it is really thinking about things like dimmers, not chargers, when it talks about switching regulators. Of course all standards have radiated limits, and filtering of the conducted common-mode noise on the DC output of a power supply will almost always be needed to meet those limits. Hope this helps, Regards, Jim Eichner Senior Regulatory Compliance Engineer Statpower Technologies Corporation jeich...@statpower.com http://www.statpower.com Any opinions expressed are those of my invisible friend, who really exists. Honest. -Original Message- From: Derek Walton [SMTP:l...@rols1.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 6:34 PM To: EMC Discussion Group Subject: Conducted Emissions for PS output HI, would anyone like to suggest a specification for controlling conducted emissions from the output of a power supply or battery charger. The market place is either the USA or Europe. Thanks, Derek. -- Derek Walton Owner L. F. Research EMC Design and Test Facility 12790 Route 76, Poplar Grove, IL 61065. www.lfresearch.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
POWER CORDS color code FOR SOUTH AMERICA.
George and PSNet, Ahh... this triggers a similar situation from a past life seems that the company had specified the use of the IEC colors for all power cords... but the supplier thought that since the power plug was moulded-on the color of the internal wires didn't matter and they wanted to use their normal black/white/green wires... upon my visit to a foreign service center, the manager drug me into the service work area and asked me to explain the discrepancy to the service technicians who were replacing plugs at a furious rate since the customers complained that their electricians didn't know which wire went where... so the explanantion from the supplier when I returned... needless to say, we had to again emphasize that we really wanted the lite-blue/brown/green-yellow wire in the assembly... I would have thot that, by now, this would have disappeared as an issue... c'est la vie... newbies are born every day -both buying and selling... What's the lesson? better adopt the test house motto: Trust and verify! - - - - - Peter E Perkins Principal Product Safety Consultant Tigard, ORe 97281-3427 +1/503/452-1201 phone/fax p.perk...@ieee.org email visit our website: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/peperkins - - - - - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: internet information
Hi Laura, You can fit a 3 amp fuse in the fuse safely unless you have other technical specification on your product, i.e., high inrush current required. With 0.75 sq mm cord given, the maximum permissible current is 6A but the harmonised standard allows 10A in line with other European countries. I also take a note from BEAB saying that 13A fuse is allowed with 0.75 sq mm cord on their approved products. However, no specific explanation was given. Hope above information is useful to you. Raymond Li = Laura Leyba-Newton lnew...@hach.com on 18/11/99 03:54:31 a Please respond to Laura Leyba-Newton lnew...@hach.com To: 'Colgan, Chris' chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com, Laura Leyba-Newton lnew...@hach.com, 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org cc:(bcc: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes) Subject: RE: internet information We are trying to determine the proper fusing for the UK power cord. The products we will be using the cord set on will never exceed 3amps in normal operating conditions. For the power cord set the Manufacturer has provided us with the following information: BSI/ASTA Approved British Male to International Female, HO3VVF3G0.75 Unshielded, Length: 8', Color: Black. The Manufacturer has asked us to specify a fuse of either 5A or 10A, with the information above how can we determine on whether a 5A or a 10A fuse should be used being that the gauge was not listed? Thanks a lot for the previous help and also thanks in advance for any help you can give me, -Laura -Original Message- From: Colgan, Chris [mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:42 AM To: 'Laura Leyba-Newton'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: RE: internet information Laura Re. the power cord. SI No.1768 requires UK consumer products to be fitted with a plug conforming to BS1363. Both BS1363 and SI 1768 require the plug to be fused. The fuse value is determined by the cross sectional area of the power cord conductors. I doubt that you could find an unfused UK power cord set anyway. Hope this helps Chris Colgan EMC Safety TAG McLaren Audio Ltd mailto:chris.col...@tagmclarenaudio.com -Original Message- From: Laura Leyba-Newton [SMTP:lnew...@hach.com] Sent: 16 November 1999 18:36 To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: internet information Could someone please tell me where previous EMC and safety discussions are posted on the internet. Also I am interested to know if a detachable UK power Cord is required to be fused. Products using this line cord have integral fuses in both AC lines. You help would be greatly appreciated. -Laura - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). = Authorised on 11/17/99 at 09:42:16; code 37f48bf3F2F6C214. The contents of this E-mail are confidential and for the exclusive use of the intended recipient. If you receive this E-mail in error, please delete it from your system immediately and notify us either by E-mail, telephone or fax. You should not copy, forward or otherwise disclose the content of the E-mail. TAG McLaren Audio Ltd, The Summit, 11 Latham Road Huntingdon, Cambs, PE18 6ZU Telephone : 01480 415600 (+44 1480 415600) Facsimile : 01480 52159 (+44 1480 52159) - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: internet information
Hi Nick, Many thanks for your time and explaination that gives me a new view of UK fused plug. Best regards, Raymond Li = Nick Rouse 100626.3...@compuserve.com on 18/11/99 06:13:48 a To: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes cc: Subject: Re: internet information - Original Message - From: raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk To: John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 3:20 PM Subject: RE: internet information John, I am very insterested in your explaination on fused plug requirement between the ring main supply system and branch or spur systems. Could you please shed more light on to me about the fused plug requirement on the ring main supply and a simply way to identify the said main supplies. Raymond Practically all UK domestic premises and the vast bulk of UK low power single phase outlets in commercial and light industrial premises use plugs and sockets to BS1363. They is a legal requirement for all new installations in domestic premises. If you have not come across them, they are jumbo sized square 3 pin plugs rated at a modest 13A. An essential part of the specification and design of this plug is that it contains a fuse to BS1362. As far as I am aware this design of fuse is not used anywhere else. The normal way to wire up domestic premises in the UK is to use a ring main system. Typically all the socket outlets on each floor are connected to a ring of two conductor plus earth cable that runs from the fuse box around the rooms on that floor and back to the fuse box. Heavy current devices such as cookers and water heaters are wired separately as is fixed lighting. Each ring main is protected at the fuse box by a fuse or circuit breaker that is rated for the wiring of the ring main, typically 30A or 50A. A large proportion of electrical fires in domestic premises are caused by damage to the power cord between the wall socket and the appliance. If the insulation of low current rated power cords is damaged it is quite possible to have a partial short circuit in the cable that allows sufficient current to flow through the cable to cause serious overheating without taking out the high rated fuse protecting the ring main. Since this current is not flowing in the appliance, the fuses there are of no help. In industrial wiring practice it is normal to insert a fuse or breaker every time a low current rated spur is taken off a higher rated feed at the point it is spurred off. In this way all cable is protected by a fuse appropriate to the rating of the cable. This principal is extended to domestic wiring in the UK. Because it is not known in advance what the rating of the power cord plugged into any wall socket will be, the fuse cannot be fitted in the socket. It is therefore fitted in the plug. This system has the advantage that low rated cords can be used safely for low rated appliances. You ask how to distinguish between ring and spur circuits. This question does not normally arise for suppliers of equipment to the UK market. UK law requires that all electrical appliances sold for domestic use are sold with a power cord fitted with a BS1362 plug containing a fuse appropriate to the rating of that power cord. These regulation also cover thing such as office equipment and personal computers that might reasonably be bought for domestic use. I hope this helps clear things up a bit for you Regards Nick Rouse - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: internet information
Hi John, Sorry to ask such a big question. In fact, this is my first time to hear such technical explaination about why UK plug must be fused so I believe I can ask a right person for this question. In the past, I got a common answer from UK people saying that the UK mains plug is the most safe plug in the world as nearly no other plugs are equipped with fuse, i.e., US plug, VDE plug. Now I know there is other reason behind. Anyway, I deeply appreciate you have given a number of sources for my reference/study. Best regards, Raymond Li John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk on 18/11/99 12:41:40 a To: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes cc: emc-p...@ieee.org emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: internet information Raymond I think you have asked a very big question - and unfortunately I do not have time to go into it! However, I also think that it has been discussed before in EMC-PSTC, and so I suggest that you ask Ed Price or Rich Nute if they can identify the previous threads for you to examine on the RCIC website. Additionally, I would recommend that you try the Interpower Components website (www.interpower.com) and request a copy of their Export Designers Reference and Catalogue 9. Page 16 thereof gives a brief resume of the need for fusing in UK BS1363 plugs. You could also review BS 7671Requirements for Electrical Installations - otherwise known as the IEE Wiring Regulations (which I believe you may use in Hong Kong) and its associated Guidebooks. Regards John Allen -- From: raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk[SMTP:raymond...@dixonsasia.com.hk] Sent: 17 November 1999 15:20 To: John Allen Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: RE: internet information John, I am very insterested in your explaination on fused plug requirement between the ring main supply system and branch or spur systems. Could you please shed more light on to me about the fused plug requirement on the ring main supply and a simply way to identify the said main supplies. Thanks and regards, Raymond Li === John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk on 17/11/99 04:41:13 pm Please respond to John Allen john.al...@rdel.co.uk To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org, 'Laura Leyba-Newton' lnew...@hach.com cc:(bcc: Raymond Li/DixonsNotes) Subject: RE: internet information Laura All UK standard power cords require to be fused - regardless of the fusing in appliance to which they are connected - because we use a totally different building ring main supply system to most other countries which use branch or spur systems ! The main reason is that the power cord cross-sectional (0.75 - to 1.5 sq mm) area is much less than that of the ring main (2.5 to 4 sq mm) , and fuses have to be inserted wherever such a change occurs. Fusing in the appliance is to protect the appliance - not the power cord. Regards John Allen Racal UK PS: the previous threads are on the RCIC.com website. -- From: Laura Leyba-Newton[SMTP:lnew...@hach.com] Sent: 16 November 1999 18:36 To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: internet information Could someone please tell me where previous EMC and safety discussions are posted on the internet. Also I am interested to know if a detachable UK power Cord is required to be fused. Products using this line cord have integral fuses in both AC lines. You help would be greatly appreciated. -Laura - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: Shielded Enclosure Fire Hazard
Scott, I presume you mean Halon, not halogen. Sorry, but Halon systems are neither invisible nor odourless. When you set one off, the room fills with a smoky haze that has quite a strong odour. I presume that this is due to additives that are included for the very purpose of making it obvious. By the way, when you set one of these things off, there is a very loud, explosive noise. Not sure if this is due to an explosives charge opening the pressurized cylinder, or just the explosive expansion of the gas. Regardless, you'd have to be deaf (and blind) to not realize that the system had deployed. In a previous incarnation, I used to work on oil rigs in the Arctic Ocean. I once had the dubious distinction of setting one of these things off (due to a tantalum cap on one of my PWBs). Just imagine sitting there in the middle of winter, in that complete silence of the Arctic, and all of a sudden there is this incredible explosion and smoke ... Needless to say, a change of underwear was in order. No, there is no danger of missing the fact that there is halon in the air. As for breathing the stuff, I'm not aware of any actual harm. Yes, it displaces the normal oxygen, so you obviously can't live on it, but it's not poisonous, just neutral. I'm sure I got quite a lungfull of the stuff, but there was no harm done. No big deal. Egon :-) At 12:25 PM 17/11/1999 , you wrote: Original Message- From: Scott Douglas [SMTP:s_doug...@ecrm.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 1:53 PM To: geor...@lexmark.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject:RE: Shielded Enclosure Fire Hazard George, I once worked in a laboratory that developed the Doppler weather radar we all see on TV today. In our just built (in 1979) control room, they put a halogen extinguisher system. Halogen works by displacing the oxygen and thus the fuel for the fire. No fuel, no fire. The system could fill the entire control room, 50' x 80' in less than 30 seconds. We had big klaxon alarms and a disable mechanism, but strict rules to just run like hell. We had a 10 second warning bell that went off just before the gas came down. Point is, it wasn't so much the ozone layer that made halogen fall out of favor, it was the severe threat to human life. The gas is odorless, tasteless and invisible, so if it went off you wouldn't know until too late. I recall they told us that you would not live 30 seconds in a room filled with halogen. The several false alarms caused us to evacuate and we had to call the fire department to ventilate the building for 60 minutes before we could get back to work. Halogen is certainly an extremely effective means of suppressing fire, but operating costs and impact on operations play a big part in its use (or lack thereof). The gas is expensive and, while there is little damage to facilities or equipment from its use, there can be human consequences to deal with. Scott s_doug...@ecrm.com ECRM Incorporated Tewksbury, MA USA __ Egon H. Varju, PEng E.H. Varju Associates Ltd. North Vancouver, Canada Tel: 1 604 985 5710 HAVE MODEM Fax: 1 604 273 5815 WILL TRAVEL E-mail: e...@varju.bc.ca var...@csa.ca __ - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: Printed Wiring Board Design for Safety Compliance
Good question. Have you posted tosci.electronics.cad group to see what their answers were? - Robert - -Original Message- From: Rains,Mike mra...@foxboro.com To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Wednesday, November 17, 1999 2:07 PM Subject: Printed Wiring Board Design for Safety Compliance Colleagues, I am curious to know how you handle PWB design for safety compliance: 1. How do you document the required spacings on the schematics? 2. Do you use tools provided by your schematic entry system (ViewLogic, Valid or whatever) to enter these requirements? 3. Does your PWB layout system import these requirements from your schematic entry system and automatically ensure they are maintained as the board is designed? 4. How do you view the different circuit segments once the board is designed? That is, how do you visually verify that spacings are maintained between all segments on a single layer and through multiple layers? The reason that I'm asking is that this is an area of interest here. Our boards are typically six layer, very densely populated and can have ac mains, SELV and intrinsically safe circuit segments. We are developing ways to try and reduce human error and effort in designing these boards. I would be interested to know if anyone else has an interest in this subject. Thanks. Best regards, Mike Rains Foxboro Co. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: internet information
Hi Laura. You mention wire type: HO3VVF3G0.75 This looks like 0.75mm2 cross section area cable, and should be protected by a 5A fuse. Chris Duprés Surrey, UK. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: internet information (worldwide electricity supplies)
Dear Laura et al. I wasn't sure if it was yourself or someone else that had asked about worldwide electricity supply voltages and frequencies. Anyway a brief list can be viewed at the following link : http://www.ets-tele.com/tics/global/volt_freq.htm Best regards, Edward Fitzgerald Director Direct Tel. : +44 1202 20 09 22 GSM Tel. : +44 4685 33 100 European Technology Services (EMEA) Specialist Global Compliance and Regulatory Consultancy Regional Offices in Australia, Canada and the UK. Global Telecom / Radio Intelligence Site http://www.ets-tele.com/tics psst... spread the word ! -Original Message- From: Laura Leyba-Newton [mailto:lnew...@hach.com] Sent: 16 November 1999 18:36 To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: internet information Could someone please tell me where previous EMC and safety discussions are posted on the internet. Also I am interested to know if a detachable UK power Cord is required to be fused. Products using this line cord have integral fuses in both AC lines. You help would be greatly appreciated. -Laura - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, jim_bac...@monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
