Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
George: I don't think what I said differs substantially from what you said other than I intended to say that where electrical safety of consumer products is concerned only CSA and c-UL certification is acceptable in Canada. If you use a consumer product in Canada not so approved to CSA or c-UL, you'll have a problem with insurance. . In fact Ontario Hydro(now Hydro One) have authority to prevent you from using the product. Its amazing how many products enter the country without any certification because this is not examined at entry. Ralph Cameron - Original Message - From: geor...@lexmark.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 11:21 AM Subject: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, I believe some additional clarification is warranted. UL and CSA are private agencies and do not determine what is acceptable to market goods (ITE) in their respective countries. This is determined by government bodies. The U.S. OSHA has approved multiple Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories to (NRTLs) to perform testing to the UL standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See: http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html The Standards Council of Canada has approved multiple Certification Bodies to perform testing to the CSA standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See http://www.scc.ca/certific/colist_e.html Neither UL nor CSA is obliged to recognize or accept testing performed by the other agency, although their respective governments do so. Canada requires either CSA, c-UL, or marks of the other listed certification bodies. U.S. requires UL, CSA/NRTL, or marks of the other listed NRTLs. So, you can use either agency to get a mark acceptable in both countries. However, here is the down side of each: CSA/NRTL--Not as well known in the U.S. by large corporate customers. Requires some selling to convince that it is equal to UL. c-UL--OK for both country consumer/business markets, but Canadian government tends to give precidence to CSA marked ITE when bidding for its own use. George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com on 09/10/2001 09:33:00 AM Please respond to Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com To: Horst Haug innova.ps%t-online...@interlock.lexmark.com, Peter Merguerian pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com, amund%westin@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: UL vs CSA (IT product) CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area,to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your
Re: ESD Testing
Both are 8kV air discharge, both require performance criteria B, but I'd say the current version of 61000-4-2 is more severe. Doesn't the current IEC 61000-4-2:1995 + A1:1998 version require a minimum of 50 hits per test point whereas the 1984 version didn't? I don't remember the specifics of the 84 version and I don't have any reference to it. - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? Yes. I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? UL by itself is not accepted in Canada. CSA by itself is not accepted in the US. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? I've only run into that problem with NRTLs other than UL and CSA for domestic (US) approvals and that was primarily with telco companies. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Yes. If you go to CSA, then tell them you have to have approvals for both Canada and the US. If you go to UL, then tell them you have to have approvals for both Canada and the US. It's up to you, 6 of one or a six-pack of another ... - Doug McKean --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Hi Amund: UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? Yes -- sort of. Safety certification of IT equipment is mandatory in both Canada and the USA. However, both countries accept safety certification from a number of certification houses, including but not limited to CSA and UL. So, certification is required in both Canada and the USA, but not necessarily by CSA and UL. Both UL and CSA can certify IT products for both the USA and Canada. Canada USA -- --- UL cUL markUL mark CSA CSA markCSA-NRTL mark (The marks are combination marks, i.e., they are base logo marks with additions that indicate the certification applies to both countries.) 1.Do they have the same status? UL and CSA (and their certification marks) have the same status in both Canada and the USA. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Not many customers pay attention to who issues the certification mark. However, among those that have an interest, in general, Canadian folks prefer CSA, and USA folks prefer UL. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Not necessarily. Your product must have safety certification in both Canada and the USA. 1) Either CSA or UL can issue one certification that is acceptable in both countries. Or, 2) CSA and UL can issue individual certifications for their respective countries, i.e., you can submit to CSA for Canadian certification and to UL for USA certification. Most of us in the USA use one certification house for both countries. Some of us use CSA, some of us use UL, and some of us use other certification houses. Best regards, Rich --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
EU Parliament Unexpectedly Votes to Ban BDEs
The EU Parliament voted 6 Sept. to expand the ban on brominated flame retardants (BFR's) to include pentaBDE's, octa BDE's and deccaBDE's. The ban would be effective by 2003 rather than the previously proposed 2007 contained in the draft Restrictions on Substances Directive. Check: http://www.europarl.eu.int/plenary/default_en.htm http://www.europarl.eu.int/plenary/default_en.htm Question: are any of these BFRs commonly used today as flame retardants in wire, cable and plastics? --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Standard 3-Phase Voltages in Brazil
Hello group, I am interested in learning what is standard 3-phase power for Brazil. Probably in the 120/208V range similar to North America. Any help is appreciated.. -doug = Douglas E. Powell Regulatory Compliance Engineer Advanced Energy Industries, Inc. 1625 Sharp Point Dr. Ft. Collins, Co 80525 mailto:doug.pow...@aei.com http://www.advanced-energy.com/ = --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
UL vs CSA (IT product)
Amund, I believe some additional clarification is warranted. UL and CSA are private agencies and do not determine what is acceptable to market goods (ITE) in their respective countries. This is determined by government bodies. The U.S. OSHA has approved multiple Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratories to (NRTLs) to perform testing to the UL standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See: http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/otpca/nrtl/index.html The Standards Council of Canada has approved multiple Certification Bodies to perform testing to the CSA standards for ITE. These include UL and CSA. See http://www.scc.ca/certific/colist_e.html Neither UL nor CSA is obliged to recognize or accept testing performed by the other agency, although their respective governments do so. Canada requires either CSA, c-UL, or marks of the other listed certification bodies. U.S. requires UL, CSA/NRTL, or marks of the other listed NRTLs. So, you can use either agency to get a mark acceptable in both countries. However, here is the down side of each: CSA/NRTL--Not as well known in the U.S. by large corporate customers. Requires some selling to convince that it is equal to UL. c-UL--OK for both country consumer/business markets, but Canadian government tends to give precidence to CSA marked ITE when bidding for its own use. George Alspaugh Lexmark International Inc. Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com on 09/10/2001 09:33:00 AM Please respond to Ralph Cameron ralphc%igs@interlock.lexmark.com To: Horst Haug innova.ps%t-online...@interlock.lexmark.com, Peter Merguerian pmerguerian%itl.co...@interlock.lexmark.com, amund%westin@interlock.lexmark.com, emc-pstc%majordomo.ieee@interlock.lexmark.com cc:(bcc: George Alspaugh/Lex/Lexmark) Subject: Re: UL vs CSA (IT product) CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area,to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Hello all, A semantics clarification is offered based on the following response; On Mon, 10 Sep 2001, Ralph Cameron wrote: CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. ULC is the acronym for Underwriters Laboratories of Canada ( a UL affiliate). They, no doubt, are accredited as Testing and Certifying Organizations by the Standards Council of Canada. (And, as an aside, I believe they may also be Recognized by OSHA, to test and certify to US requirements) UL is normally not acceptable by itself in Canada It's not clear whether the above sentence refers to UL (the company) or UL (the mark). In the hopes of clarifying the statement, consider the following; C-UL is the proper acronym for products tested and certified by UL (in the US, or Canada, or elsewhere - I expect) to Canadian Standards. UL (the US company) is also accredited by the Standards Council of Canada as Testing and Certification Organizations and their C-UL (and C-UR for components) marks are accepted in Canada. Regards, Art Michael P.S. The Safety Link noted the entry of its 350,000th visitor (since mid-1995) last Friday. You are invited to visit and use this resource. Int'l Product Safety News A.E. Michael, Editor 166 Congdon St. East P.O. Box 1561 Middletown CT 06457 U.S.A. Phone : (860) 344-1651 Fax: (860) 346-9066 Email : i...@safetylink.com Website: http://www.safetylink.com ISSN : 1040-7529 - Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
Re: UL vs CSA (IT product)
CSA accepts approval by ULC. The C is indicative of Canadian UL. UL is normally not accpetable by itself in Canada Ralph Cameron EMC Consulting and Suppresion of Consumer Electronics (after sale) - Original Message - From: Horst Haug innova...@t-online.de To: Peter Merguerian pmerguer...@itl.co.il; am...@westin.org; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 5:24 AM Subject: AW: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael
AW: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Amund, UL accept components approved by CSA and CSA accepts components approved by UL. A CSA approved Power Supply within an end product with UL approval is no problem any more (that is my experience). The UL PAG practical application guide about is 1.5.002. I send it to you in a separate EMAIL. With best regards Horst Haug -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]Im Auftrag von Peter Merguerian Gesendet: Montag, 10. September 2001 09:44 An: 'am...@westin.org'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Betreff: RE: UL vs CSA (IT product) Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: UL vs CSA (IT product)
Amend, See my answers in body of your message. UL and/or CSA certification are mandatory within the electrical safety area, to have access to the US and Canadian marked. Right ? I know there are some differences between them, the certification fee, the certification-handling period and the number of audit/year. My questions are: 1.Do they have the same status? Peter: Yes, to a certain extent. You must check the scope of their acceditations in OSHA's and Standard Council of Canada's websites. 2.What requirements do the end users/ buyers have, do most of them prefer one of the approvals? Peter: Depends on the categories. But most end-users are not aware that other NRTLs are capable of giving the same Listing service. You must educate them. 3.Do we have to go for both of them? Peter: One is enough, but as I said above, you must educate end-users to accept and also check if the test house is accredited for the particular standards. Best regards Amund Westin, Oslo/Norway -- Get your firstname@lastname email for FREE at http://Nameplanet.com/?su --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server. --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Michael Garretson:pstc_ad...@garretson.org Dave Healddavehe...@mediaone.net For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: No longer online until our new server is brought online and the old messages are imported into the new server.
RE: STP vs FTP Ethernet cables (2)
I guess this 150 ohms is from the combination of the 100 ohm characteristic impedance and the 50 ohm output form equipment, like the power amplifier for conducted immunity test. Allan, James james_al...@milgo.com 09/07/01 09:03pm Paolo: Try this link to Quabbin wire company. It is a product selector guide with the types of wire used for different applications. All Ethernet applications are 100 ohm characteristic impedance and only have overall shields if shielded. Telecom cable (T1, DSL etc.) if shielded, are also 100 ohm but the shield (if present) is over the individual wire pairs with no overall shield. I find no reference to standard Ethernet cable at 150 ohms. LINK http://www.quabbin.com/finder/finder.cgi?cmd=app_form Jim Allan Manager, Engineering Services Nextira Solutions LLC 1619 N Harrison Parkway Sunrise, FL, 33323 E-mail james_al...@milgo.com Phone (954) 846-3720 Fax (954) 846-6282 -Original Message- From: Paolo Roncone [SMTP:pronc...@cisco.com] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 5:28 AM To: Meunier, Eric Cc: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: STP vs FTP Ethernet cables (2) Eric, this 150 ohm story of STP cables sounds completely new to me. Also, my understanding is that both UTP and STP are used for 10bT ethernet. In the STP definition of IEEE802.3, there is no mention about different characteristic impedances from the required 100ohm of 10bT. Unfortunately I haven't yet received an answer to my original question as to how STP cables should be actually made (shielded twisted pairs vs overall shield) . As I already said in previous e-mails, the STP cables that I got look pretty much the same as FTP cables, that is they have just an overall shield (aluminum foil) around all wires. And they are all declared to be 100 ohms. Paolo At 16:56 06/09/2001 -0400, you wrote: Paolo, You may want to check if the FTP cable has a 100 Ohms characteristic impedance which would make it compatible with interfaces designed for UTP cable. STP cable is supposed to have a 150 Ohms impedance which is not compatible with standard 10baseT interfaces which are usually designed for UTP. Eric === Eric Meunier Hardware Architect E-mail: eric.meun...@ca.kontron.com mailto:emeun...@teknor.com Kontron Communication Inc. (Teknor) 616, rue Cure-Boivin Boisbriand, Quebec Canada, J7G 2A7 Tel: 1-450-437-4661 ext. 2419 Fax: 1-450-437-8053 Web: http://www.teknor.com/ http://www.teknor.com/ -Original Message- From: Paolo Roncone [SMTP:pronc...@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 4:18 AM To: Doug McKean Cc: EMC-PSTC Discussion Group Subject:Re: STP vs FTP Ethernet cables (2) Doug, I re-paste the first part of the definition in IEEE 802.3 (2000): 1.4.249 shielded twisted-pair (STP)cable: An electrically conducting cable,comprising one or more ele- ments,each of which is individually shielded.There may be an overall shield,in which case the cable is referred to as shielded twisted-pair cable with an overall shield (from ISO/IEC 11801:1995) My understanding is that elements should refer to individual PAIRS (signal/return), rather than single wires. But - as I said in my previous e-mail - I'd like to check whether this is put into practice by some vendors. So far I didn't get any clue on this. The STP cables that I found so far (form a couple of vendors) have just an OVERALL shield around all wires, and these are identical to FTP (Foiled Twisted Pair) cables that are also on the market. I agree with you, something doesn't sound right... Paolo At 09:36 05/09/2001 -0700, Doug McKean wrote: Paolo Roncone wrote: The reason of my inquiry is that we bought samples of STP and FTP cat.5 cables for 10bT ethernet applications from different vendors and to our surprise we discovered that both STP and FTP types have an overall (external) shield made of aluminum foil, but no shields on individual wires or wire couples (as per 802.3 definition above).
