Re: wire size
Here is what I have: Total Cross Sectional Area (mm)^2(Brown Sharpe) AWG of single conductor 107.1459 84.9487000 67.433300 53.48210 42.40611 33.62362 26.66743 21.14744 16.76395 13.29936 10.54967 8.36748 6.63269 5.260410 4.172811 3.310312 2.624513 2.081614 1.651315 1.309016 1.038717 0.823518 0.652719 0.517620 0.410421 0.325622 0.258123 0.204724 0.162425 0.128826 0.102027 0.081028 0.064229 0.051030 0.040431 0.032032 0.025433 0.020134 0.016035 0.012736 0.010037 0.008038 0.006339 0.005040 At 04:02 PM 1/22/2003 -0500, jgoedd...@tycoint.com wrote: Safety people, I would like to know what the standard wire sizes are in Europe, comparable to 12AWG, 14AWG, 16AWG, 18AWG solid. Would anyone across the pond be willing to assist on this. Or, anyone else that has the info. Thank you James Goedderz Product Safety Engineer Tyco Safety Products - Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
ESD
This probably comes under the heading of due diligence. Dave Cuthbert Kris, In my reading of the standard, and the next modification will include that clearly, you need to test discharges to the shell of the USB connector, as there will not be a connector in there all the time. There is another strong argument: The user might plug a charged (e.g. hand-held) device into the USB port. Of course, the main criteria is survival, as you cannot test connectivity if there is no USB device. But if you have multiple USB connectors, another USB device might loose connection when discharging to a different USB connector. David Pommerenke This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Surge requirements for DC power supplies
Hello Group, does anybody aware of any standard or requirement for DC power port surges for indoor ( central office ) applications? I know EN 55024 (IEC 61000-4-5) specify surge tests for DC ports that may connect to outside lines. It could be in Europe (-48V or -60V) or North America; ETSI, EN , BellCore: anything goes. Thanks in advance, Mark Gandler Ciena This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: wire size
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. The following is an useful link for wire size conversion: http://www.eraser.com/main.cgi?m=wirecalc Attached is a pdf file from the same website for wire size conversion (i.e. AWG to mm). Sylvia From: jgoedd...@tycoint.com [mailto:jgoedd...@tycoint.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:02 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: wire size Safety people, I would like to know what the standard wire sizes are in Europe, comparable to 12AWG, 14AWG, 16AWG, 18AWG solid. Would anyone across the pond be willing to assist on this. Or, anyone else that has the info. Thank you James Goedderz Product Safety Engineer Tyco Safety Products - Sensormatic This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list Title: RE: wire size The following is an useful link for wire size conversion: http://www.eraser.com/main.cgi?m=wirecalc Attached is a pdf file from the same website for wire size conversion (i.e. AWG to mm). Sylvia -Original Message- From: jgoedd...@tycoint.com [mailto:jgoedd...@tycoint.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 1:02 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: wire size Safety people, I would like to know what the standard wire sizes are in Europe, comparable to 12AWG, 14AWG, 16AWG, 18AWG solid. Would anyone across the pond be willing to assist on this. Or, anyone else that has the info. Thank you James Goedderz Product Safety Engineer Tyco Safety Products - Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list wire_conversion_chart.pdf Description: Binary data
Re: wire size
James, 12AWG= 4.0 mm2 14AWG= 2.5 mm2 16AWG= 1.5 mm2 18AWG= 0.75mm2 Regards, Andre From: jgoedd...@tycoint.com Reply-To: jgoedd...@tycoint.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: wire size Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 16:02:08 -0500 Safety people, I would like to know what the standard wire sizes are in Europe, comparable to 12AWG, 14AWG, 16AWG, 18AWG solid. Would anyone across the pond be willing to assist on this. Or, anyone else that has the info. Thank you James Goedderz Product Safety Engineer Tyco Safety Products - Sensormatic --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list _ Hotmail: je gratis e-mail ! http://www.msn.be/hotmail This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: ESD Contact discharge fitted connector
Kris, In my reading of the standard, and the next modificaiton will include that clearly, you need to test discharges to the shell of the USB connector, as there will not be a connector in there all the time. There is another strong arguemnt: The user might plug a charged (e.g. hand-held) device into the USB port. Of course, the main criteria is survival, as you cannot test connectivity if there is no USB device. But if you have multiple USB connectors, another USB device might loose connection when discharging to a different USB connector. David Pommerenke From: Carpentier Kristiaan [mailto:carpenti...@thmulti.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:48 AM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: ESD Contact discharge fitted connector Hello group, A Class II product has 3 interfaces. 2 interfaces have plastic connectors, with no metal shell. 3rd interface is USB plastic connector but with metal shell. The housing of the product is plastic (non conductive) The USB connector is fitted with a USB plug molded in plastic. Test set-up for immunity testing (ESD) is done with all interface plugs connected to verify performance of all interfaces. Consequently, no conductive parts are accessible and contact discharge must not be applied. But the product can also used without USB connection; the USB connector shell becomes then accessible. Question: Is ESD Contact test required on USB connector without plug taken into account that USB performance cannot be monitored at that time (and the other interfaces must be verified in another way)? More generic: can we exclude ESD contact testing by fitting all connectors with plugs on a product ? FYI: IEC61000-4-5+A1+A2 states that Contact ESD is not required (par 8.3.1 c) for those points and surfaces of equipment which are no longer accessibel after FIXED installation or after following the instructions for use. Regards, Kris This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Three Phase Power in Japan?
John: I briefly scanned the quoted database. Approval mark for China is now CCC (China Compulsory Certification) which replaces CCEE and CCIB as of May 1, 2002 but fully implemented May 1, 2003. References could be made available off-line if you wish. There is also PSE mark in a circle for Japan for non-specified items and S-JQA mark(voluntary). T-Mark under DENTORI has been replaced by the PSE marks under DENAN Law. Also, if I may add, although some countries may not have approval marks, a certificate of conformity must be obtained as customs clearance document for any imported shipment (such as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia). Thanks, Evangeline Cometa CSA International -Original Message- From: John Barnes [mailto:jrbar...@iglou.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 2:10 PM To: rbus...@es.com; emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: Three Phase Power in Japan? (snip) * INTERNATIONAL PRIMARY POWER, PLUGS, LANGUAGES, APPROVAL MARKS, AND APPROVAL AGENCIES, at http://www.dbicorporation.com/internat/internat.htm (full database covering 300 countries, 360KB, 50+ pages printed out). (snip) If you spot any errors or major omissions in it, please let me know so that I can fix them. Thanks! John Barnes KS4GL, PE, NCE, ESDC Eng, SM IEEE dBi Corporation http://www.dbicorporation.com/ --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --IMPORTANT NOTICE-- This message is intended only for the use of the person or organization to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately by email or telephone and delete the original message immediately. Thank you. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
Quite right for uncorrelated noise. To add to this discussing we can think about the response of the human ear to sound level. A 3 dB increase in SPL does not sound twice as loud. If I remember correctly it takes a 6-8 dB increase to sound twice as loud. So is the goal to meet a standard or for operator comfort? Dave Cuthbert Micron Tech From: Ken Javor [mailto:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:56 AM To: Luttrell, Lyle; 'Gandler, Mark'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves I would further amplify on this comment. It is not just a 10 log vs. 20 log calculation. Sound power is the quantity of interest, so by definition it is a 10 log relationship . But someone said add 3 dB for each added component. That is incorrect. You only add 3 dB for the second component. The issue is that the sound pressure level (exclusive of localized interference effects) adds as the square root of the sum of the squares. And that is what you get when you use 10 log(number of units). This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
wire size
Safety people, I would like to know what the standard wire sizes are in Europe, comparable to 12AWG, 14AWG, 16AWG, 18AWG solid. Would anyone across the pond be willing to assist on this. Or, anyone else that has the info. Thank you James Goedderz Product Safety Engineer Tyco Safety Products - Sensormatic This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves (Correction)
Ahhh! Guilty! Thanks Ken. From my posting below, the part about 3dB for each shelf is WRONG!!. Hopefully, I didn't corrupt any innocent minds. It would be more correct to say 3dB for each factor of two, 1 to 2, 2 to 4... I'm glad that I wasn't designing any airplanes today! SNIP For sound, the worst case would be to add 3dB for each shelf. However, in the real world, the noise probably won't all add together (there will be power/phase/frequency differences). SNIP Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | -Original Message- From: Ken Javor [SMTP:ken.ja...@emccompliance.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 12:56 PM To: Luttrell, Lyle; 'Gandler, Mark'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves I would further amplify on this comment. It is not just a 10 log vs. 20 log calculation. Sound power is the quantity of interest, so by definition it is a 10 log relationship . But someone said add 3 dB for each added component. That is incorrect. You only add 3 dB for the second component. The issue is that the sound pressure level (exclusive of localized interference effects) adds as the square root of the sum of the squares. And that is what you get when you use 10 log(number of units). This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Three Phase Power in Japan?
Rick, The bookletWorld Electricity Supplies, 5th Edition published by BSi in April 1989 says: * Japan (East): - 50+/-0.2Hz - Household voltages 200/100(K), 100(L) - Commercial voltages 200/100(H)(K) - Industrial voltages 6.6kV, 200/100(H), 200(G)(J) - Voltage tolerance +/-10% * Japan (West): - 60+/-0.1Hz - Household voltages 210/105(K), 200/100(K), 100(L) - Commercial voltages 210/105(H)(K), 200/100(K), 100(L) - Industrial voltages 22kV, 6.6kV, 210/105(H), 200/100(H) - Voltage tolerance +/-10% (G) is three-phase delta; four-wire; earthed mid point of phase (H) is three-phase open delta; four-wire; earthed mid point of phase (J) is three-phase open delta; three-wire; earthed junction of phases (K) is single-phase; three-wire; earthed mid point (same as we use in the United States) (L) is single-phase; two-wire; earthed end of phase This booklet is one of the very few sources that discusses the topology of various countries' electrical power distribution systems. It costs 65 English pounds, and you can order it from BSi at http://www.bsi-global.com/Technical+Information/Publications/ _Publications/tig38.xalter This is one of the 60 sources that Oscar Overton and I used to compile our web pages: * INTERNATIONAL POWER, PLUGS, AND LANGUAGES, at http://www.dbicorporation.com/internat/intpower.htm (summary covering 240 countries, 60KB, 9 pages printed out) * INTERNATIONAL PRIMARY POWER, PLUGS, LANGUAGES, APPROVAL MARKS, AND APPROVAL AGENCIES, at http://www.dbicorporation.com/internat/internat.htm (full database covering 300 countries, 360KB, 50+ pages printed out). I am incorporatingINTERNATIONAL POWER, PLUGS, AND LANGUAGES into the book that I am writing for Kluwer,Robust Electronic Design Reference , to be published late this year. If you spot any errors or major omissions in it, please let me know so that I can fix them. Thanks! John Barnes KS4GL, PE, NCE, ESDC Eng, SM IEEE dBi Corporation http://www.dbicorporation.com/ This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
I would further amplify on this comment. It is not just a 10 log vs. 20 log calculation. Sound power is the quantity of interest, so by definition it is a 10 log relationship . But someone said add 3 dB for each added component. That is incorrect. You only add 3 dB for the second component. The issue is that the sound pressure level (exclusive of localized interference effects) adds as the square root of the sum of the squares. And that is what you get when you use 10 log(number of units). From: Luttrell, Lyle lluttr...@peakstor.com To: 'Gandler, Mark' mgand...@ciena.com, emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves Date: Wed, Jan 22, 2003, 9:23 AM Mark, You need to know what type of level you are working with. Sound power level (re 1pW) of multiple sources is straightforward: 10*log(n) = 13 dB for n=20. This is essentially independent of measurement environment. Sound pressure level (re 20uPa) depends on the sound power level plus the environment (measurement distance and room conditions). If you have a sound pressure level of a unit measured in free space conditions at a distance, the level due to multiple identical sources in the same environment will typically be no more than 10*log(n) because the distance to the acoustic centers of all sources will not be identical. Lyle F. Luttrell, PE PeAk Storage Solutions, Div of MaxOptix 303-664-8286 fax 303-664-8299 lluttr...@peakstor.com -Original Message- From: Gandler, Mark [mailto:mgand...@ciena.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:31 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves Hello Group! Imagine you are going to install 20 small chassis (shelves) in one rack in Central Office. If you know your acoustic noise level from one chassis, is it any way to calculate total noise? Sorry, if it is not the smartest question. Please reply!!! Need an answer!!! Thanks, Mark Gandler Ciena --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
Lyle and Everybody How answered my question!!! Thank you very much for the fast and clear responses! It is great to have this forum. Mark Gandler Ciena From: Luttrell, Lyle [mailto:lluttr...@peakstor.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:24 AM To: Gandler, Mark; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves Mark, You need to know what type of level you are working with. Sound power level (re 1pW) of multiple sources is straightforward: 10*log(n) = 13 dB for n=20. This is essentially independent of measurement environment. Sound pressure level (re 20uPa) depends on the sound power level plus the environment (measurement distance and room conditions). If you have a sound pressure level of a unit measured in free space conditions at a distance, the level due to multiple identical sources in the same environment will typically be no more than 10*log(n) because the distance to the acoustic centers of all sources will not be identical. Lyle F. Luttrell, PE PeAk Storage Solutions, Div of MaxOptix 303-664-8286 fax 303-664-8299 lluttr...@peakstor.com From: Gandler, Mark [mailto:mgand...@ciena.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:31 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves Hello Group! Imagine you are going to install 20 small chassis (shelves) in one rack in Central Office. If you know your acoustic noise level from one chassis, is it any way to calculate total noise? Sorry, if it is not the smartest question. Please reply!!! Need an answer!!! Thanks, Mark Gandler Ciena This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
way OT: (was RE: jurisdiction, overlap, and delegation in USA rules.)
This discussion is getting astray from the content requirements of the list. If, after this posting, anyone wishes to continue this discussion, I invite you to take it off the list. I'd be pleased to participate. Still not quite correct, John, but I can see how an outsider might consider it semantical. The arrangement is bottom-up, rather than delegated from the top down. In fighting occurs when the higher level of government oversteps its bounds. It's kind of like, you're not the boss of me, that we bloody colonists told Mother. As to delegation, the US Constitution spells out the authority of the federal government and everything else is left to the state and local governments. Each state has a similar constitution that more or less does the same thing with county and municipal governments. For instance, the Tenth Amendment to the US Constitution makes it clear that whatever authority is not explicitly given to the federal government is reserved to the states (I suppose this could be interpreted as delegation, but delegation implies you will do this, whereas the Constitution says, we're not going to do that, but you can if you want to.). Where this gets muddled is when the Hamiltonians get a wild hair that there oughtta be a law about this and that, and in the process infringe on states rights or individual rights of the citizenry. Sometimes by unfunded mandate, sometimes by directly trying to increase the centralization of government, sometimes by blatant usurpation. Usurpation most often occurs by the Executive Branch departments' issuing edicts from their lesser, included bodies that, where through the necessary and proper clause of the Constitution, Congress has given their regulations the power of law. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com From: John Woodgate Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:04 PM OK, this is a semantic issue. IMHO, 'delegation' is the appropriate word if there is a written law that prescribes how authority is allocated. If, OTOH, it is a situation like English 'common law', which is not necessarily written as a statute but stems from tradition and case law, then 'supersession' may be the better word. I *think* that the autonomy of the US states is of that nature, the federal Constitution simply affirming what was already established. -- Regards, John Woodgate This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
ESD Contact discharge fitted connector
Hello group, A Class II product has 3 interfaces. 2 interfaces have plastic connectors, with no metal shell. 3rd interface is USB plastic connector but with metal shell. The housing of the product is plastic (non conductive) The USB connector is fitted with a USB plug molded in plastic. Test set-up for immunity testing (ESD) is done with all interface plugs connected to verify performance of all interfaces. Consequently, no conductive parts are accessible and contact discharge must not be applied. But the product can also used without USB connection; the USB connector shell becomes then accessible. Question: Is ESD Contact test required on USB connector without plug taken into account that USB performance cannot be monitored at that time (and the other interfaces must be verified in another way)? More generic: can we exclude ESD contact testing by fitting all connectors with plugs on a product ? FYI: IEC61000-4-5+A1+A2 states that Contact ESD is not required (par 8.3.1 c) for those points and surfaces of equipment which are no longer accessibel after FIXED installation or after following the instructions for use. Regards, Kris This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
Mark, You need to know what type of level you are working with. Sound power level (re 1pW) of multiple sources is straightforward: 10*log(n) = 13 dB for n=20. This is essentially independent of measurement environment. Sound pressure level (re 20uPa) depends on the sound power level plus the environment (measurement distance and room conditions). If you have a sound pressure level of a unit measured in free space conditions at a distance, the level due to multiple identical sources in the same environment will typically be no more than 10*log(n) because the distance to the acoustic centers of all sources will not be identical. Lyle F. Luttrell, PE PeAk Storage Solutions, Div of MaxOptix 303-664-8286 fax 303-664-8299 lluttr...@peakstor.com From: Gandler, Mark [mailto:mgand...@ciena.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:31 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves Hello Group! Imagine you are going to install 20 small chassis (shelves) in one rack in Central Office. If you know your acoustic noise level from one chassis, is it any way to calculate total noise? Sorry, if it is not the smartest question. Please reply!!! Need an answer!!! Thanks, Mark Gandler Ciena This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Language Requirements for User Interfaces--CE Mark
Dear Group: From the harmonized list of standards published in the official journal of European communities, I do not see any CE Mark standards/requirements which cover the Languages of User Interfaces for products sold into Europe. Do any such requirements exist? Thanks in advance for any guidance you may be able to provide. Don This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
I saw a posting which said add 6dB for a factor of 2. That is incorrect; when you are dealing with sound. My apologies to this poster; no disrespect intended. When dealing with sound and power, add 3dB for a factor of two. A factor of two only works out to 6dB if you are dealing with voltage, field strength (and possibly some other measurements). There was a long thread which went into the gory mathematical details about a year ago. I'll spare everyone the details; but I'd be glad to explain to anyone who contacts me offline. For sound, the worst case would be to add 3dB for each shelf. However, in the real world, the noise probably won't all add together (there will be power/phase/frequency differences). I saw Paul Hare's response which said to add 13dB for 20 chassis. That sounds about right to me ;-) Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Japanese Laser Requirements
On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 09:26:16 -0600, rick_hokan...@datacard.com wrote: Does anyone have any experience with selling Class IV Lasers in Japan? Does Japan follow the same International standards as Europe/ US for Laser safety? We have JIS C 6802, which is a modified version of IEC 60825-1. Portable laser products are covered by Consumer Product Safety Law, and procedure including third-party certification would be required for products covered by the Law. Regards, Tom Tomonori Sato vef00...@nifty.ne.jp URL: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/tsato/ This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
I read in !emc-pstc that Neil Helsby nei...@solid-state-logic.com wrote (in 20030122.8281...@mis.configured.host) about 'Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves' on Wed, 22 Jan 2003: The simple answer is that the result will be logarithmic – double the noise and you add 6 dB. The noises are uncorrelated (largely), so you add 3 dB, not 6. -- Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only. http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Interested in professional sound reinforcement and distribution? Then go to http://www.isce.org.uk PLEASE do NOT copy news posts to me by E-MAIL! This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
The simple answer is that the result will be logarithmic – double the noise and you add 6 dB. In practice it probably isn't and neither will the on-site result when compared to your office measurements unless all conditions are identical. We measure the audio noise (mainly from fans) from our products in a studio environment. Noise is directional and over the length of a product noise from one end has little effect on the noise measurement from the other end. Studio finish absorbs much of the noise but it is not acoustically dead. Now take the product into a metal lined room and, due to reflections, the measurement levels increase. Not much help I'm afraid but hope it gives food for thought. Neil Helsby ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
EU - Theme: Single Market, Regulation, New and Global Approach
Hi Folks Just found a page on the Commission site which lists all the various Commission guides to the Directives (LVD, EMC etc), i.e: http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/library/lib-regulation/libr-regulation. html Worth a look! Regards John Allen Technical Consultant Electromagnetics, Safety and Reliability Group ERA Technology Ltd Cleeve Rd Leatherhead Surrey KT22 7SA Tel:+44 (0) 1372-367025 (Direct) +44 (0) 1372-367000 (Switchboard) Fax:+44 (0) 1372-367102 (Fax) * Copyright ERA Technology Ltd. 2002. (www.era.co.uk). All rights reserved. The information supplied in this Commercial Communication should be treated in confidence. No liability whatsoever is accepted for any loss or damage suffered as a result of accessing this message or any attachments. _ This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by the WorldCom Internet Managed Scanning Service - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit http://www.worldcom.com This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
Hi Mark, If you understand the fact that adding two sources of the same level gives you a 3dB increase, you can do some quick addition. Let's say one of your small chassis has a noise level of 75dB. If you add a second one you would get a total noise level of 78dB. (Of course this does not consider cancellation due to superposition, but at least this is a worst case scenario.) If you add another pair of chassis (i.e. total of four), you get to 81 dB. And so on and so on... When the noise levels are different, then it becomes a little more difficult. Without going into great detail here, you should add 13dB to the level of a single chassis to get the noise level for 20 chassis... Hope this helps... Paul Hare From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org]On Behalf Of Gandler, Mark Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 6:31 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves Hello Group! Imagine you are going to install 20 small chassis (shelves) in one rack in Central Office. If you know your acoustic noise level from one chassis, is it any way to calculate total noise? Sorry, if it is not the smartest question. Please reply!!! Need an answer!!! Thanks, Mark Gandler Ciena This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RMCEMC Bonus February meeting
To all interested parties: The RMCEMC is having a bonus February meeting: Presenter: Colin Brench, HP Principal Member of technical Staff (Bio) Date :Feb 5th 2003 Location : Front Range Community College, Westminster Colorado. Room Timberline (S117) Times :5:30 -6:30 Social Hour at the Community College Cafeteria. 6:45 : Assemble at the room 7:00- 9:00 Presentations What we will see: 1) Antenna Behavior and Use - (What Really goes on during a test?! 2) Understanding EMI Shield Behavior in Real Product Environments Please go to our website: http://www.ieee.org/rmcemc for full details Thank you Charles Grasso Vice-Chair This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
