Re: question on test labs for mulitple burst multiple stroke lightning
In a message dated 1/23/2003 3:37:38 PM Central Standard Time, shbe...@rockwellcollins.com writes: Now that DO-160D, change 3 is published, does anyone have suggestions for test labs that can perform mulitple burst multiple stroke lightning? I believe that TUV in Minn, MN and Lightning Technologies can, but I was hoping to find more closer to the southeast. Thanks in advance, Susan Beard Hi Susan, we are gearing up to do this testing, it depends when your schedule requires it be done. Cheers, Derek Walton L F Research
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Re: Electrical Safety - Canada
Ditto if your using CSA 950 Kevin Keegan KES Associates Ottawa, Canada From: Cereceres, David dcerece...@pelco.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 5:56 PM Subject: RE: Electrical Safety - Canada My understanding is that if you meet the US (UL) requirements you meet the Canadian requirements (cUL). At least that has been what I've experienced when submitting product under UL 6500 and UL 60950. David Cereceres Product Safety Engineer Pelco -Original Message- From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 1:54 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Electrical Safety - Canada In Europe we follow the Low Voltage Directive (LVD) and the it applies in the range 50-1000VAC and 75-1500VDC. A 27VDC operated product will therefore in Europe, not be within the scope of LVD. One reason for this must be that 27VDC is not assumed to be hazardous voltage. How is it in Canada ? I have been told that electrical safety apply even with DC voltage way below 27V if the rated normal current is above a specified level. So it seems that Canada is not strictly bounded to a voltage limit as in Europe, but rather to the amount of energy with can flow into the 27VDC input terminal. Can anybody confirm this ? Best regards Amund Westin Oslo / Norway --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
FROM A PREVIOUS EPISODE OF AS THE DB TURNS But in the end it doesn't matter, does it? A dB is a dB. An increase in SPL of 6 dB is the same as an increase in sound power of 6 dB. Just like a 6dB change in voltage results in a 6dB change in power. Wonderful things, those dB's.. Careful...It does matter. They aren't as wonderful as you think!!! Take an analogy from electronics A 6dB increase in voltage will not necessarily result in a 6dB increase in power. You would have to make a bunch of assumptions, such as a constant resistive load.. What if the load was non-linear? Power is the product of voltage and current. If you have a 6dB voltage increase with no current increase, then you only have a 3dB power increase. Going back to sound An increase in sound pressure level may not necessarily translate to the same increase in noise power. This problem isn't so bad because most sound measurements are made assuming that air is the resistance or transmissions medium. However; the reference level is different. If we assume air as the transmission medium, a sound intensity of 0 dB (referenced to 1pW/m^^2) is not produced by a sound pressure level of 0 dB (referenced to 1 x10^^-5 lb/in^^2). The person who originally started this thread wanted to estimate the sound increase from adding multiple cards to a shelf. If those cards had been characterized to have x dBpW/m^^2 of noise; then adding 6dB for each factor of two would result in an extremely high estimate.On the other hand; if those cards had been characterized to have x dBlb/in^^2; then adding 3dB for each factor of two would result in an extremely low estimate. Even worse, if the standard assumes dB pW/in^^2; and he was working in dBa or dB lb/in^2; his answer would be wrong before he even put pen to paper. I know that I'm beating a dead horse; but how else would you know how it died :-) I'm not participating in this thread to prove anybody right or wrong; I just want to make sure that one of our colleagues doesn't add apples to oranges and end up with fruit salad. Chris Maxwell | Design Engineer - Optical Division email chris.maxw...@nettest.com | dir +1 315 266 5128 | fax +1 315 797 8024 NetTest | 6 Rhoads Drive, Utica, NY 13502 | USA web www.nettest.com | tel +1 315 797 4449 | This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Chemical Testing
Group, I am looking for a US lab that does chemical resistivity testing with solutions used in NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) decontamination such as DS-2. Would any of you know of such a lab? Thank you Darrell Locke Advanced Input Devices This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Semi F47 testing
Lisa, If you go to www.semi.org and use thier site search function with key word F47 I think you will find the latest revision of F47 is from february of 2000. Also, searching on the international standards page of the same site you will probably find no recent activities in the document. A call to semi standards staff may also get you some relevant information. Regards, Lauren Crane TUV America - Product Service Division -Original Message- From: lisa_cef...@mksinst.com To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Sent: 1/23/2003 7:45 AM Subject: Semi F47 testing Does anyone know of a new revision of the Semi F47 Sag test that is due to come out? I have heard rumors, but have not seen anything that states what the changes are or when it becomes active Thank you in advance Lisa Lisa A. Cefalo, CRE Manager, Reliability and Design Services MKS Instruments 6 Shattuck Road Andover, MA 01810 (978)-975-2350 X 5669 lisa_cef...@mksinst.com --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: DEMKO high voltage spacing requirements
Paul - What is the applicable product standard? What type of product is it? What is the application? Is the 220V mains connected? From somewhere else in a primary circuit? Is the 220V in a secondary circuit? What levels of insulation are there between this circuit and other types of circuits elsewhere in the product? If in a secondary circuit, is it earthed? Is it a Limited Current Circuit? What other types of circuits are near it that require isolation/insulation on the board? Limited Current Circuits? TNV? SELV? ELV? Other hazardous voltage circuits? Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services San Jose, CA peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: Denomme, Paul S. Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 6:27 AM Hi all, I am in the process of designing a board that needs to receive DEMKO approval. This board will have 220VAC directly connected to it through a connector. Can anyone tell me what the spacing requirements would be for this board? The board will be conformally coated to minimize the spacing requirements. Also, anyone have experience regarding issues that may come up in regards to the connector? Any input would be appreciated. Regards, Paul S. Denomme This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: DEMKO high voltage spacing requirements
Paul, the minimum creepage distance and clearance requirements will be shown in the EN or IEC standard applicable to the product for which the board will be used. These requirements will not be unique to Denmark or to DEMKO. There will be references to other EN or IEC standards that allow reduced spacing, or require additional spacing bases upon the installation overvoltage category, the materials being used, what pollution may occur, and other characteristics of your application. You should research and understand all of this thoroughly beforehand. The best way to avoid an issue with the connector is to specify a connector that meets the applicable standard and has an approval from a CEE member lab. Lou Aiken, LaMer LLC 27109 Palmetto Drive Orange Beach, AL 36561 USA tel ++ 1 251 981 6786 fax ++ 1 251 981 3054 Cell ++ 1 251 979 4648 From: Denomme, Paul S. paul.deno...@viasystems.com To: emc-p...@ieee.org Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 8:27 AM Subject: DEMKO high voltage spacing requirements Hi all, I am in the process of designing a board that needs to receive DEMKO approval. This board will have 220VAC directly connected to it through a connector. Can anyone tell me what the spacing requirements would be for this board? The board will be conformally coated to minimize the spacing requirements. Also, anyone have experience regarding issues that may come up in regards to the connector? Any input would be appreciated. Regards, Paul S. Denomme Design Engineer Viasystems 804-226-5155 804-226-6056(fax) --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves
But in the end it doesn't matter, does it? A dB is a dB. An increase in SPL of 6 dB is the same as an increase in sound power of 6 dB. Just like a 6dB change in voltage results in a 6dB change in power. Wonderful things, those dB's.. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: drcuthbert [mailto:drcuthb...@micron.com] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 8:51 AM To: 'Hudson, Alan'; EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves Alan, here is a definition of dBa: dBa: Abbreviation for decibels adjusted. Weighted absolute noise power, calculated in dB referenced to 3.16 picowatts (-85 dBm), which is 0 dBa. (188) Note: The use of F1A-line or HA1-receiver weighting must be indicated in parentheses as required. A one-milliwatt, 1000-Hz tone will read +85 dBa, but the same power as white noise, randomly distributed over a 3-kHz band (nominally 300 to 3300 Hz), will read +82 dBa, due to the frequency weighting. Synonym dBrn adjusted. From this link: http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/fs-1037/dir-010/_1471.htm Now here is a definition of SPL: Sound Pressure Level: The sound pressure level at a point is measured in decibels (dB) and is equal to 20 times the logarithm to the base 10 of the ratio of R.M.S. sound pressure to the reference sound pressure. The reference sound pressure in air is taken to be 2 * 10-5 Pa. From this link: http://www.camets.com.au/info/glossary/spl.htm Is this where some of the confusion is coming from? Some are thinking of sound pressure and others are thinking in terms of sound power. Dave Cuthbert Micron Technology From: Hudson, Alan [mailto:alan.hud...@amsjv.com] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:15 AM To: EMC-pstc (E-mail) Subject: RE: Acoustic noise calculations for multiple shelves John Woodgate wrote: The noises are uncorrelated (largely), so you add 3 dB, not 6. Now I'm confused! I always thought it was noise *level* (similar to voltage level) not noise *power*, and hence it was 20*log(ratio) not 10*log(ratio). So I've been using 6dB for doubling noise, not 3dB. I'll need to consult some basic texts, methinks. Regards, Alan -- Remove .paper-bag from address if replying by email. This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: question on test labs for multiple burst multiple stroke lightning
Susan, I posed your question to a test lab that I've used in the past. They are located outside of the Philadelphia area. They maybe located a little bit closer? Their response and contact info below... John, We can perform single stroke to Level 4 and Multiple Stroke and Multiple Burst to Level 5. In addition we can perform testing for all EMC sections in DO-160D from Section 15 to 23 and 25. If you would like to discuss specific lightning or EMC requirements please do not hesitate to contact me or Fin at your convenience. Regards, Rohit Vohra Division Manager Alion Science and Technology RB Laboratory Phone: 610-825-1960 Ext. 229 Fax: 610-825-1684 Email: rvo...@alionscience.com John A. Jankowski INRANGE Technologies Email: john.jankow...@inrange.com The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended by Inrange Technologies for the use of the named individual or entity to which it is directed and may contain information that is confidential or privileged. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete it from your system without copying or forwarding it, and notify the sender of the error by reply mail. Now that DO-160D, change 3 is published, does anyone have suggestions for test labs that can perform mulitple burst multiple stroke lightning? I believe that TUV in Minn, MN and Lightning Technologies can, but I was hoping to find more closer to the southeast. Thanks in advance, Susan Beard This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Electrical Safety - Canada
Peter, I can tell you that today in the USA, many jurisdictions require Class II powered products to be Listed when installed in a commercial environment. We ran into problems in Oregon, Washington, and several cities elsewhere in the country where the local codes have been amended or are intrepreted to required Listing. We finally gave up trying to fight the local codes; so, today, we List all of our Class II products. Bummer. Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Peter L. Tarver [mailto:peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com] Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:02 AM To: richwo...@tycoint.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: RE: Electrical Safety - Canada Amund Richard - Peter Merguerian had it pretty much right. While not specifically written into the US NEC, the local authorities having jurisdiction (AHJs) have not normally required (let us say, it would've been extremely unusual) Class II powered products to be safety certified, because Class II implied that there was no risk of fire or electric shock in the load circuit. (It wasn't until about the 1990 Code, ± a revision) that Class II circuit conductors in structures had to be insulated.) When a specific fine print note (fpn) was added to, IIRC, § 800-4 of the 1990 Code, stating telecommunications equipment needed certification to a standard such as UL 1459, that unwritten exemption began to fail for certain products. I received a call from a client sometime shortly after the 1990 Code was published who had a fax machine powered by a Class II brick that the City of Los Angeles had red tagged on the basis of the fpn to § 800-4. We were able to help with the AHJ by convincing them that the applicable product safety standard was UL 1950 and the fpn did not strictly apply. That ended with the inclusion of telecom requirements in IEC 950 and UL1950. Eventually, the 1999 NEC added UL 1950 as a such as standard to the fpn to § 800-4 . OSHA's requirements for the workplace don't have any exemptions with regard to Class II powered equipment, so there's an impetus for certification in the workplace, irrespective of power source. For decades, UL would not evaluate a product powered by a Class II source on much the same basis. That thinking changed as an increasing revenue stream potential presented itself via the number of manufacturers specifying Class II power sources for their products requesting certification, and later by the OSHA regs. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services 2000 Ringwood Ave. San Jose, CA 95131-1749 V: 408-904-2081 F: 408-904-2095 M: 408-234-3529 peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: richwo...@tycoint.com Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 5:23 AM Amund, all electrical products are governed by the Canadian Electrical Code, and the CSA safety standards form part of the code. The Canadian Code is very similar to the US's National Electrical Code except for the inclusion of the CSA standards. There is one major difference, however, that directly affects you particular question. Unlike the NEC of the US, the Canadian Code has an expemption from Certification for products operated from Class II sources (at least it did the last time I reviewed the Code). Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Electrical Safety - Canada
Amund Richard - Peter Merguerian had it pretty much right. While not specifically written into the US NEC, the local authorities having jurisdiction (AHJs) have not normally required (let us say, it would've been extremely unusual) Class II powered products to be safety certified, because Class II implied that there was no risk of fire or electric shock in the load circuit. (It wasn't until about the 1990 Code, ± a revision) that Class II circuit conductors in structures had to be insulated.) When a specific fine print note (fpn) was added to, IIRC, § 800-4 of the 1990 Code, stating telecommunications equipment needed certification to a standard such as UL 1459, that unwritten exemption began to fail for certain products. I received a call from a client sometime shortly after the 1990 Code was published who had a fax machine powered by a Class II brick that the City of Los Angeles had red tagged on the basis of the fpn to § 800-4. We were able to help with the AHJ by convincing them that the applicable product safety standard was UL 1950 and the fpn did not strictly apply. That ended with the inclusion of telecom requirements in IEC 950 and UL1950. Eventually, the 1999 NEC added UL 1950 as a such as standard to the fpn to § 800-4 . OSHA's requirements for the workplace don't have any exemptions with regard to Class II powered equipment, so there's an impetus for certification in the workplace, irrespective of power source. For decades, UL would not evaluate a product powered by a Class II source on much the same basis. That thinking changed as an increasing revenue stream potential presented itself via the number of manufacturers specifying Class II power sources for their products requesting certification, and later by the OSHA regs. Regards, Peter L. Tarver, PE Product Safety Manager Sanmina-SCI Homologation Services 2000 Ringwood Ave. San Jose, CA 95131-1749 V: 408-904-2081 F: 408-904-2095 M: 408-234-3529 peter.tar...@sanmina-sci.com -Original Message- From: richwo...@tycoint.com Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 5:23 AM Amund, all electrical products are governed by the Canadian Electrical Code, and the CSA safety standards form part of the code. The Canadian Code is very similar to the US's National Electrical Code except for the inclusion of the CSA standards. There is one major difference, however, that directly affects you particular question. Unlike the NEC of the US, the Canadian Code has an expemption from Certification for products operated from Class II sources (at least it did the last time I reviewed the Code). Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: To RTTE or not to RTTE
Dave, All radio transmitting devices are bound by the RTTE Directive. Check Annex I for the exempted devices. I think you will find that your device is not exempt. I agree with Leslie on the appropriate Standards to apply. Don’t forget about the product safety component of the Directive which is required of all devices that are subject to RTTE Directive. Kind Regards, Sam Wismer Engineering Manager ACS, Inc. *Tel: (770) 831-8048 *Fax: (770) 831-8598 *Web: www.acstestlab.com * ** swis...@acstestlab.com From: owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org] On Behalf Of Leslie Bai Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:49 PM To: Dave Grant; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Re: To RTTE or not to RTTE Dave, From your email address, it looks like you are at a test lab. Not sure what type of source the advice you got from, but this device falls into RTTE Directive, in specific, the standards to test against shall be: EN 300 330 series for radio parameters and EN 301 489 series for EMC parameters. Hope this helps. Leslie Dave Grant da...@alisonlabs.com wrote: Hello All. Is the RTTE directive applicable for proximity card readers in access control systems? The frequencies of interest are: 125 kHz 13.56MHz 134.2kHz I am getting some advice that these products fall outside of the above directive and instead fall under the EMC directive. What's your opinion? Can you guys point me to some info on the web that could clarify this? Thanks ... Dave Grant This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-! p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list _ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http:/mailplus.yahoo.com Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now ht p://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http:/mailplus.yahoo.com
RE: Language Requirements for User Interfaces--CE Mark
Don, As confirmed in discussions with the European Commission regarding the revision to LVD only yesterday, it is generally for each Member State to define what language(s) are acceptable within its own borders. EN 60950 does give guidance in this area, saying that - except for safety instructions only for service personnel - instructions and equipment marking related to safety shall be in a language which is acceptable in the country in which the equipment is installed. Safety instructions for service personnel have to be in English and German (if you're supplying to Germany). You do not say if your product is, or could be, used by (including hired by) or sold to Consumers (e.g. the general public). If it is, then the revised General Product Safety Directive (GPSD - 2001/95/EC) could apply (it has not yet been adopted in all Member States). Article 8(1)(b) of this directive states: for any product that could pose risks in certain conditions: (i) to require that it be marked with suitable, clearly worded and easily comprehensible warnings, in the official languages of the Member State in which the product is marketed, on the risks it may present; (ii) to make its marketing subject to prior conditions so as to make it safe; The present and revised GPSD apply to equipment that falls outside the voltage limits of the LVD. Certain parts of the revised GPSD also apply in addition to the LVD. Hope the above help, Richard Hughes Typing on behalf of himself. -Original Message- From: don_macart...@selinc.com [ mailto:don_macart...@selinc.com] Sent: 22 January 2003 15:10 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Language Requirements for User Interfaces--CE Mark Dear Group: From the harmonized list of standards published in the official journal of European communities, I do not see any CE Mark standards/requirements which cover the Languages of User Interfaces for products sold into Europe. Do any such requirements exist? Thanks in advance for any guidance you may be able to provide. Don --- This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
DEMKO high voltage spacing requirements
Hi all, I am in the process of designing a board that needs to receive DEMKO approval. This board will have 220VAC directly connected to it through a connector. Can anyone tell me what the spacing requirements would be for this board? The board will be conformally coated to minimize the spacing requirements. Also, anyone have experience regarding issues that may come up in regards to the connector? Any input would be appreciated. Regards, Paul S. Denomme Design Engineer Viasystems 804-226-5155 804-226-6056(fax) This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: Electrical Safety - Canada
Amund, all electrical products are governed by the Canadian Electrical Code, and the CSA safety standards form part of the code. The Canadian Code is very similar to the US's National Electrical Code except for the inclusion of the CSA standards. There is one major difference, however, that directly affects you particular question. Unlike the NEC of the US, the Canadian Code has an expemption from Certification for products operated from Class II sources (at least it did the last time I reviewed the Code). Richard Woods Sensormatic Electronics Tyco International From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:54 PM To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Subject: Electrical Safety - Canada In Europe we follow the Low Voltage Directive (LVD) and the it applies in the range 50-1000VAC and 75-1500VDC. A 27VDC operated product will therefore in Europe, not be within the scope of LVD. One reason for this must be that 27VDC is not assumed to be hazardous voltage. How is it in Canada ? I have been told that electrical safety apply even with DC voltage way below 27V if the rated normal current is above a specified level. So it seems that Canada is not strictly bounded to a voltage limit as in Europe, but rather to the amount of energy with can flow into the 27VDC input terminal. Can anybody confirm this ? Best regards Amund Westin Oslo / Norway This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
RE: ESD Contact discharge fitted connector
Neil, Thanks for your advice, although I have some remarks on this: - If you disconnect the power/USB data by a watchdog timer circuit, the product is not compliant with EN55024, criteria B. - If the USB I/F is not connected to a cable and freezes because ESD Contact (4kV) is applied on the shell, I don't see this as a problem as the USB I/F is not used in this configuration. The USB interface will only be used in a different configuration; a need for restarting the product seems then acceptable and can be considered as part of the installation. But what happens is that the USB shell only creates a gateway for ESD to disturb other circuits; that is the real problem. - Air Discharge (although 8kV) on the shell is no problem, but I will check with your proposal again. I see 3 possible solutions: - look for a solution at circuit level. - instruct the user to always connect a USB cable. Whether traffic is sent or not, at least the shell is hidden. (no nice solution) - hide the USB connector by means of a plastic cover. Regards, Kris This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
Re: To RTTE or not to RTTE
Dave, From your email address, it looks like you are at a test lab. Not sure what type of source the advice you got from, but this device falls into RTTE Directive, in specific, the standards to test against shall be: EN 300 330 series for radio parameters and EN 301 489 series for EMC parameters. Hope this helps. Leslie Dave Grant da...@alisonlabs.com wrote: Hello All. Is the RTTE directive applicable for proximity card readers in access control systems? The frequencies of interest are: 125 kHz 13.56MHz 134.2kHz I am getting some advice that these products fall outside of the above directive and instead fall under the EMC directive. What's your opinion? Can you guys point me to some info on the web that could clarify this? Thanks ... Dave Grant This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-! p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list _ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now h tp://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com
EIA Standard of environment protect
Hello Group: How can i get some information on EIA standard of environment protect? thank you in advance. vijay This message is from the IEEE EMC Society Product Safety Technical Committee emc-pstc discussion list. Visit our web site at: http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/emcs/pstc/ To cancel your subscription, send mail to: majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc For help, send mail to the list administrators: Ron Pickard: emc-p...@hypercom.com Dave Heald: davehe...@attbi.com For policy questions, send mail to: Richard Nute: ri...@ieee.org Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://ieeepstc.mindcruiser.com/ Click on browse and then emc-pstc mailing list
