Re: [PSES] EN 61000-4-5 Lightning Surge Testing on AC Power

[T.Sato]

On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 17:05:22 -0400,
  Larry Stillings  wrote:

> What is the defined sequence of test voltages when performing testing to EN
> 61000-4-5 per a family standard that says use the procedure in EN 61000-4-5.
> 
> For example when doing a 2 kV Lines to Earth, 1 kV Line to Line test on AC
> power, is it specified what steps must be used for this test. In other words
> should I test at 500V, 1000V and 2000V for line to ground and 500V, 1000V
> from line to line. Or should only 2000V Line to Ground and 1000V line to
> line, or something different, like 500V, 1000V, 1500V, 2000V for example.
> 
> We have always done the three steps, but now looking through the 2006
> edition of the standard, I cannot find where it states what steps should be
> used. I know there a couple of family standards that say just the two
> maximum voltages, but was just wondering? Any guidance or pointers is
> appreciated.

In clause 9, the standard says:

  ... Therefore the test voltage has to be increased by steps up to
  the test level specified in the product standard or test plan. All
  lower levels including the selected test level shall be satisfied. ...

For testing purpose, "lower levels" here may be the lower levels
specified in clause 5 of the standard.

See also "Guidance Note Addresses Surge Test Problems", at:

  http://www.ce-mag.com/archive/02/11/williams.html

Regards,
Tom

-- 
Tomonori Sato  
URL: http://homepage3.nifty.com/tsato/

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[PSES] EN 61000-4-5 Lightning Surge Testing on AC Power

[Larry Stillings]

All,

What is the defined sequence of test voltages when performing testing to EN
61000-4-5 per a family standard that says use the procedure in EN 61000-4-5.


For example when doing a 2 kV Lines to Earth, 1 kV Line to Line test on AC
power, is it specified what steps must be used for this test. In other words
should I test at 500V, 1000V and 2000V for line to ground and 500V, 1000V
from line to line. Or should only 2000V Line to Ground and 1000V line to
line, or something different, like 500V, 1000V, 1500V, 2000V for example.

We have always done the three steps, but now looking through the 2006
edition of the standard, I cannot find where it states what steps should be
used. I know there a couple of family standards that say just the two
maximum voltages, but was just wondering? Any guidance or pointers is
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Larry K. Stillings
Compliance Worldwide, Inc.
Test Locally, Sell Globally!
FCC - Wireless - Telecom - CE Marking
357 Main Street
Sandown, NH 03873
(603) 887 3903 Fax 887-6445
www.complianceworldwide.com  

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[PSES] Laboratory Equipment - the forgotten child

[Kunde, Brian]

More trouble in the world of Laboratory Equipment (red headed step child) and 
the Machinery Directive.

I've had TUV offices in 3 Asian countries and a customer in Australia tell us 
our products (Laboratory Equipment) must have an AC Lock Out Device, an 
Emergency Stop Switch, and a Light Tower because "Laboratory Equipment now 
falls under the Machinery Directive".

They are telling us that any AC product requires a lock out device. What?

On one instrument we make, the only moving part is a small dc motor with a wire 
brush similar to an electric tooth brush that cleans an electrical contact 
between analysis. You can stop this motor by hand without injury. This motor is 
also behind a double interlock door (due to an electrical hazard), but yet they 
say we must have an E-Stop switch and Light Tower.

I'm not familiar with the Light Towers. I've seen them on Large Production 
Machines but what purpose do they serve on laboratory equipment no larger that 
an upright piano? I understood they are only required to show the operational 
status of a machine if not knowing the status could cause a hazard or injury. 
Is there more to it? I don't see why it would be needed if there are no 
accessible hazards.

I'm getting the feeling that some believe these things are required just 
because laboratory falls under the machinery directive and not for any other 
reason, which seems silly to me. In the past, the machinery directive mainly 
covered the safety of Production Machines which generally require these safety 
components.

Can you imagine your next spectrum analyzer having an E-Stop switch because of 
the cooling fan or the motorized CD drive door? Is this what it is coming to?

Why or why don't you large powerful laboratory equipment manufacturers fight 
for the official recognition of "Laboratory Equipment" and have our own 
Directives, Standards, and requirements and not have to wade through all the 
machinery Directive nonsense?  What sense is the IEC/EN 61010-1 standard if 
they are not harmonized to the MD? Why are we being forced to apply the IEC/EN 
60204-1 to Laboratory Equipment where 90% of the requirements don't or 
shouldn't apply?

Sorry for my rant. It's been a long week. I'm just a small powerless voice 
trying to sell safe products to a crazy crazy world..

The Other Brian


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Re: [PSES] Troubleshooting Kit (Part 1) Published

[Neven Pischl]

A common-mode voltage probe is an invaluable tool I have used for years to fix 
emission coming out of telecom-type ports, especially ethernet. I published an 
article in the Trans. of the IEEE EMC Symp. in Seattle, 1999 . I have mofdified 
it since (the old one was for 10/100 ethernet and token-ring only), but the 
basic idea is there, published. No cable is needed, and no radiation-type 
measurement is involved. Y ou just plug it into the port and measure the CM 
voltage of the li ne s (e.g. differential p airs in this case). If the ethernet 
traffic is needed for the em ission to fial, you need to force the transmitter 
to send idles into the CMV probe. The idesa can be eaily expanded to various 
types of ports, and in my opinion is much better than measuring CM currents 
with current probes, although in many cases one still needs to resort to using 
them . 



Cheers, Neven 



- Original Message -


From: "Ken Wyatt"  
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG, si-l...@freelists.org 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 8:33:41 PM 
Subject: Troubleshooting Kit (Part 1) Published 

Hi All, 


I just published a few details on an EMC troubleshooting kit I use. Part 1 
provides some detail on the emission tools I use. Part 2 (to be published 
later) will describe a few immunity tools. I'd appreciate any other thoughts or 
ideas you might have on tools you might use for troubleshooting. Please check 
it out and reply with your ideas on the Test & Measurement World  blog site 
here ... 


Cheers and have a great weekend! 


Ken 




___ 
Kenneth Wyatt 
Wyatt Technical Services LLC 
Woodland Park, CO 
Email Me!  |  Web Site  |  Blog 
Subscribe to Newsletter 
Connect with me on LinkedIn 
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Re: [PSES] Power Supplies

[John McAuley]

Hi Andrew

 

Providing the protective earth is the same on the two UPSs then there should
be no issue.  

 

The purpose of an A and B supply to ensure security of supply and they have
to be run off separate supplies.

 

Best regards

John

www.cei.ie  

www.fms-corp.com

john.mcau...@cei.ie

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From: Andrew McCallum [mailto:andrew.mccal...@deltarail.com] 
Sent: 01 June 2012 15:03
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Power Supplies

 

Hi All

 

We have a control system in a single 19 inch cabinet. The system is
duplicated - two computers - one live (system A) and one in standby (system
B). The customer wants to run each system off a separate UPS. I am concerned
that  this would mean having potentially dangerous voltages in the cabinets
under fault conditions. Supply would be 110V AC to each system from
different phases of the building 3 Phase supply.

 

Regards

 

Andrew McCallum

 

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[PSES] Power Supplies

[Andrew McCallum]

Hi All

We have a control system in a single 19 inch cabinet. The system is duplicated 
- two computers - one live (system A) and one in standby (system B). The 
customer wants to run each system off a separate UPS. I am concerned that  this 
would mean having potentially dangerous voltages in the cabinets under fault 
conditions. Supply would be 110V AC to each system from different phases of the 
building 3 Phase supply.

Regards

Andrew McCallum


Confidentiality: This e-mail and its attachments are intended for the 
addressees only (or people authorised to receive them on their behalf) and may 
be confidential or privileged. If they have come to you in error you must take 
no action based on them, nor must you copy or show them to anyone; please 
delete them from your system and reply to this e mail highlighting the error.

Security: Please note that this e-mail has been created in the knowledge that 
internet e-mail is not 100% secure. Anyone who communicates with us by e-mail 
is taken to accept this.

Viruses: We have taken steps to ensure that this e-mail and attachments are 
virus free, but we advise that in keeping with good computing practice you 
should ensure that they are actually virus free.  

DeltaRail Group Limited registered office Hudson House, 2 Hudson Way, Pride 
Park, Derby, DE24 8HS. Registered in England and Wales, number 5839985. Please 
refer to www.deltarail.com 

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