Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity
Perhaps discussion of DoI vs. DoC is getting tangled. A DoI is a concept only available to the MD, and because it is related to a machine that is partly complete, it must include a list of the MD Annex I essential heath and safety requirements that have been applied and fulfilled. The assumption being that some have not been fulfilled because the machine is only partly completed. In my experience, people often misunderstand the fine point details associated with partly completed machinery declarations because they are not necessarily aligned with common sense. Download the MD guide and give it a read. http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/mechanical/files/machinery/guide-appl-2006-42-ec-2nd-201006_en.pdf Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Mark Schmidt mark.schm...@dornerworks.commailto:mark.schm...@dornerworks.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:14:23 PM Subject: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity Hello List, I need some help. I am very new to the Machinery Directive and my customer received a non-conformance from their customer about their DoC. It appears that my customer’s distributor generated a DoI, and it appears that it needs to be a DoC and most importantly their complaint is that it should include a list of which EHSRs are met or not met. Where or how do I determine if these are met or not. Is there a good place to reference? Any help is appreciated like I said I am a newbie when it comes to the Machinery Directive. Thanks, Mark Schmidt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity
It is a requirement of the Machinery Directive that a copy of the declaration be supplied with each machine. Whether it should be a DoI or DoC will depend on the circumstances, but either way it should be something that the manufacturer does, so I can't see why the customer's distributor has to generate the document at all? Lauren is correct - a DoC means that all applicable EHSRs have been met. As they all have, it doesn't need to list them. A DoI means some have not, so you need to tell the user what is met and what therefore is not. Crucially, the recipient of a DoI has to carry out further work to bring the equipment into full compliance, so they need to know what that work involves. JohnC _ From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: 02 December 2013 15:58 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity Perhaps discussion of DoI vs. DoC is getting tangled. A DoI is a concept only available to the MD, and because it is related to a machine that is partly complete, it must include a list of the MD Annex I essential heath and safety requirements that have been applied and fulfilled. The assumption being that some have not been fulfilled because the machine is only partly completed. In my experience, people often misunderstand the fine point details associated with partly completed machinery declarations because they are not necessarily aligned with common sense. Download the MD guide and give it a read. http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/mechanical/files/machinery/guide-appl -2006-42-ec-2nd-201006_en.pdf Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor _ From: Mark Schmidt mark.schm...@dornerworks.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:14:23 PM Subject: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity Hello List, I need some help. I am very new to the Machinery Directive and my customer received a non-conformance from their customer about their DoC. It appears that my customer's distributor generated a DoI, and it appears that it needs to be a DoC and most importantly their complaint is that it should include a list of which EHSRs are met or not met. Where or how do I determine if these are met or not. Is there a good place to reference? Any help is appreciated like I said I am a newbie when it comes to the Machinery Directive. Thanks, Mark Schmidt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list
[PSES] Job openings for Product Safety/EMC Engineers and Technicians in US and Taiwan
Here is what remains after trimming the fluff from the official posting. At the bottom of this email are links, job codes and HR contacts for each position. To learn more about Garmin’s unique market position and what drives us to win, check out this short videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedamp;v=Pump27zOOLU#!. We offer extensive health care and dental coverage with a very small employee contribution. Most positions include an employer-paid vision plan, free life insurance, free long term disability, subsidized gym membership, subsidized golf league, stock purchase plan, a retirement plan, tree-lined communities with nationally ranked schools, etc. Compliance Engineer 2 (The other job descriptions are fairly similar. Use the links below to view them): * Certifies systems with multiple technologies (e.g. GPS, ANT+, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, HDMI, NFC) and services like Digital TV, HD traffic, local gas prices, ATM locations and movie times. * Leads compliance and safety design review meetings. * Teams with mechanical and electrical engineering to launch best-in-class navigation systems with the latest technologies and processors. * Develops and then communicates the compliance plan elements, expectations and deliverables to project team. * Provides departmental updates on revisions to key standards (CISPR, FCC, E-mark) and wireless protocols such as Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. * Researches regulatory approval requirements in new markets and new product categories. * Provides circuit design and PCB layout review comments on EMC, SAR safety design aspects. * Mentors less experienced staff. Experience Required: * Experience with EMC or product safety testing with proven ability to review designs and offer suggestions for improvements. * Knows power sources, thermal hazards, flammability ratings and user manual requirements as they relate to compliance regulations. Desirable Qualifications: * iNARTE certification in EMC and/or Product Safety. * Past participation on a standards-writing committee. * NFPA membership and/or contributions to the NEC. * Previous work or internship experience with circuit design for consumer or aviation products. Compliance Technician 1 job code 13000OH US opening: http://www.garmin.com/en-US/company/careers/listing?l=2012_garmin_cr%2Fjobdetail.ftlquemarkjob%3D13000OH Compliance Engineer 1 job code 13000Q3 US opening: http://www.garmin.com/en-US/company/careers/listing?l=2012_garmin_cr%2Fjobdetail.ftlquemarkjob%3D13000Q3 Compliance Engineer 2 job code 13000PA US opening: http://www.garmin.com/en-US/company/careers/listing?l=2012_garmin_exp_tech%2Fjobdetail.ftlquemarkjob%3D13000PA Taiwan opening: http://www.garmin.com.tw/aboutGarmin/careers/ Sr. Compliance Engineer job code 13000PP US opening: http://www.garmin.com/en-US/company/careers/listing?l=2012_garmin_exp_tech%2Fjobdetail.ftlquemarkjob%3D13000PP Please use these HR contacts in US and Taiwan: Michelle Cormack (Compliance Engineer 2 and Sr. Compliance Engineer) Garmin USA Direct: +1 913 440 2733 Email: michelle.corm...@garmin.commailto:michelle.corm...@garmin.com Kira Crosland (Compliance Technician 1 and Compliance Engineer 1) Garmin USA Direct: +1 913 440 2813 Email: kira.crosl...@garmin.commailto:kira.crosl...@garmin.com Jean Hsieh 謝繇芝 (Compliance Engineer 2) Garmin Taiwan Direct: 886-3-3187099 #6514 Email: jean.hs...@garmin.commailto:jean.hs...@garmin.com Best regards, Doug Doug Kealey Regulatory and Environmental Affairs Manager Garmin International, Inc. 1200 E. 151 St. Olathe, Kansas USA 66062 +1 913.440.5210 www.garmin.comhttp://www.garmin.com/ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send
Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards
Dunno about other than copies in Korean (http://rra.go.kr/board/law/list.jsp?lw_type=4). According to local test lab, both are very similar to CISPR, and tend to track CISPR updates. And according to stuff that I had sucked from iecee.org, they are same, but test conditions must exactly dupe the ratings in the report. In general, look at the EU-Korea FTA. In particular, use a test lab familiar with latest RRA Announces, and that can submit as 'domestic' per RRA and do all other stuff that is required for 'KC' mark - several NBs in the EU can do this. Brian From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 12:24 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards Hi, Does anyone know where I can get/purchase copies of KN 22: 2009 and KN 24: 2011 ? Is anyone familiar with the differences between KN 22 and CISPR 22/EN 55022 and KN 24 and CISPR 24/EN 55024? Thanks for your help Regards, David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards
From personal experience, CISPR and KN standards are very similar, but interpretations a little different. For example. Test should be done at Korean voltages and frequency. Korea likes to add the measurement uncertainty in the limits. Etc. So usually we re-test our product in a KN accredited lab in Korea. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:24 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards Hi, Does anyone know where I can get/purchase copies of KN 22: 2009 and KN 24: 2011 ? Is anyone familiar with the differences between KN 22 and CISPR 22/EN 55022 and KN 24 and CISPR 24/EN 55024? Thanks for your help Regards, David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101 Mail e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.ilmailto:e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.il Web www.itl.co.ilhttp://www.itl.co.il/ Fill out Customer Satisfaction Surveyhttp://app.sqm.co.il/SitePages/Questionnaire.aspx Global Certifications You Can Trust - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards
I'll second that but replace should with MUST. Even when I know of the Korean requirement up front their voltage doesn't fit into the EU or US input voltage levels including plus/minus tolerances. So essentially the RF immunity gets runs twice once for the rational and once for the fuss-budgets. We also run EMI scans three times. Gary From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 1:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards From personal experience, CISPR and KN standards are very similar, but interpretations a little different. For example. Test should be done at Korean voltages and frequency. Korea likes to add the measurement uncertainty in the limits. Etc. So usually we re-test our product in a KN accredited lab in Korea. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:24 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards Hi, Does anyone know where I can get/purchase copies of KN 22: 2009 and KN 24: 2011 ? Is anyone familiar with the differences between KN 22 and CISPR 22/EN 55022 and KN 24 and CISPR 24/EN 55024? Thanks for your help Regards, David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101 Mail e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.ilmailto:e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.il Web www.itl.co.ilhttp://www.itl.co.il/ Fill out Customer Satisfaction Surveyhttp://app.sqm.co.il/SitePages/Questionnaire.aspx Global Certifications You Can Trust - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards
So I have to ask, what is the voltage/freq in Korea? Is it that different compared to other countries? I heard for Emissions they like 6db margin but will accept 3db. They do know that Measurement Uncertainty is (Plus or Minus), right? The Other Brian Sent from my Windows Phone From: McInturff, Gary Sent: 12/2/2013 5:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards I’ll second that but replace should with MUST. Even when I know of the Korean requirement up front their voltage doesn’t fit into the EU or US input voltage levels including plus/minus tolerances. So essentially the RF immunity gets runs twice once for the rational and once for the fuss-budgets. We also run EMI scans three times. Gary From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 1:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards From personal experience, CISPR and KN standards are very similar, but interpretations a little different. For example. Test should be done at Korean voltages and frequency. Korea likes to add the measurement uncertainty in the limits. Etc. So usually we re-test our product in a KN accredited lab in Korea. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:24 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards Hi, Does anyone know where I can get/purchase copies of KN 22: 2009 and KN 24: 2011 ? Is anyone familiar with the differences between KN 22 and CISPR 22/EN 55022 and KN 24 and CISPR 24/EN 55024? Thanks for your help Regards, David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101 Mail e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.ilmailto:e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.il Web www.itl.co.ilhttp://www.itl.co.il/ Fill out Customer Satisfaction Surveyhttp://app.sqm.co.il/SitePages/Questionnaire.aspx Global Certifications You Can Trust - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas
Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards
Hello Brian, The Voltage/ freq. is 220 VAC 60Hz. Not sure about your Measurement uncertainty question. I do have an opinion though Mark From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 6:06 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards So I have to ask, what is the voltage/freq in Korea? Is it that different compared to other countries? I heard for Emissions they like 6db margin but will accept 3db. They do know that Measurement Uncertainty is (Plus or Minus), right? The Other Brian Sent from my Windows Phone From: McInturff, Gary Sent: 12/2/2013 5:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards I'll second that but replace should with MUST. Even when I know of the Korean requirement up front their voltage doesn't fit into the EU or US input voltage levels including plus/minus tolerances. So essentially the RF immunity gets runs twice once for the rational and once for the fuss-budgets. We also run EMI scans three times. Gary From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 1:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards From personal experience, CISPR and KN standards are very similar, but interpretations a little different. For example. Test should be done at Korean voltages and frequency. Korea likes to add the measurement uncertainty in the limits. Etc. So usually we re-test our product in a KN accredited lab in Korea. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:24 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards Hi, Does anyone know where I can get/purchase copies of KN 22: 2009 and KN 24: 2011 ? Is anyone familiar with the differences between KN 22 and CISPR 22/EN 55022 and KN 24 and CISPR 24/EN 55024? Thanks for your help Regards, David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101 Mail e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.ilmailto:e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.il Web www.itl.co.ilhttp://www.itl.co.il/ Fill out Customer Satisfaction Surveyhttp://app.sqm.co.il/SitePages/Questionnaire.aspx Global Certifications You Can Trust - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online
Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity
Thanks to all that have responded - overwhelming responses with very insightful information. I will continue my investigation into my customers problems with this directive which (in my opinion) is somewhat undefined or is lacking exactness. This in turn propagates misinterpretation. Thanks to all, Mark From: John Cotman [mailto:john.cot...@conformance.co.uk] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 12:42 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity It is a requirement of the Machinery Directive that a copy of the declaration be supplied with each machine. Whether it should be a DoI or DoC will depend on the circumstances, but either way it should be something that the manufacturer does, so I can't see why the customer's distributor has to generate the document at all? Lauren is correct - a DoC means that all applicable EHSRs have been met. As they all have, it doesn't need to list them. A DoI means some have not, so you need to tell the user what is met and what therefore is not. Crucially, the recipient of a DoI has to carry out further work to bring the equipment into full compliance, so they need to know what that work involves. JohnC From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: 02 December 2013 15:58 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity Perhaps discussion of DoI vs. DoC is getting tangled. A DoI is a concept only available to the MD, and because it is related to a machine that is partly complete, it must include a list of the MD Annex I essential heath and safety requirements that have been applied and fulfilled. The assumption being that some have not been fulfilled because the machine is only partly completed. In my experience, people often misunderstand the fine point details associated with partly completed machinery declarations because they are not necessarily aligned with common sense. Download the MD guide and give it a read. http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/mechanical/files/machinery/guide-appl-2006-42-ec-2nd-201006_en.pdf Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Mark Schmidt mark.schm...@dornerworks.commailto:mark.schm...@dornerworks.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:14:23 PM Subject: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity Hello List, I need some help. I am very new to the Machinery Directive and my customer received a non-conformance from their customer about their DoC. It appears that my customer's distributor generated a DoI, and it appears that it needs to be a DoC and most importantly their complaint is that it should include a list of which EHSRs are met or not met. Where or how do I determine if these are met or not. Is there a good place to reference? Any help is appreciated like I said I am a newbie when it comes to the Machinery Directive. Thanks, Mark Schmidt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell
Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards
My information is that the required Voltage is 220Vac, at 60Hz. We also are having to retest EMC for this purpose. Best regards, Brian C. Delta-Q Technologies Corp. From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] Sent: December-02-13 3:06 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards So I have to ask, what is the voltage/freq in Korea? Is it that different compared to other countries? I heard for Emissions they like 6db margin but will accept 3db. They do know that Measurement Uncertainty is (Plus or Minus), right? The Other Brian Sent from my Windows Phone From: McInturff, Gary Sent: 12/2/2013 5:39 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards I'll second that but replace should with MUST. Even when I know of the Korean requirement up front their voltage doesn't fit into the EU or US input voltage levels including plus/minus tolerances. So essentially the RF immunity gets runs twice once for the rational and once for the fuss-budgets. We also run EMI scans three times. Gary From: Paasche, Dieter [mailto:dieter.paas...@christiedigital.com] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 1:52 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards From personal experience, CISPR and KN standards are very similar, but interpretations a little different. For example. Test should be done at Korean voltages and frequency. Korea likes to add the measurement uncertainty in the limits. Etc. So usually we re-test our product in a KN accredited lab in Korea. Sincerely, Dieter Paasche From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 3:24 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Korean EMC Standards Hi, Does anyone know where I can get/purchase copies of KN 22: 2009 and KN 24: 2011 ? Is anyone familiar with the differences between KN 22 and CISPR 22/EN 55022 and KN 24 and CISPR 24/EN 55024? Thanks for your help Regards, David Shidlowsky | Technical Writer Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. POB 87, LOD 71100 Israel Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101 Mail e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.ilmailto:e...@itl.co.il/dav...@itl.co.il Web www.itl.co.ilhttp://www.itl.co.il/ Fill out Customer Satisfaction Surveyhttp://app.sqm.co.il/SitePages/Questionnaire.aspx Global Certifications You Can Trust - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics
Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity
The MD requires the DoC (not DoI) or a document calling out the content of the DoC to be provided in the Instruction Manual. The purpose of this requirement is not clear to me but it says it so you have to do it. I would request additional information from the customer if you can. What exactly did they not like about the information they received. I've had customers reject a DoC only to find out after jumping through many hoops that they were wrong. The Other Brian Sent from my Windows Phone From: John Cotman Sent: 12/2/2013 1:10 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity It is a requirement of the Machinery Directive that a copy of the declaration be supplied with each machine. Whether it should be a DoI or DoC will depend on the circumstances, but either way it should be something that the manufacturer does, so I can’t see why “the customer’s distributor” has to generate the document at all? Lauren is correct – a DoC means that all applicable EHSRs have been met. As they all have, it doesn’t need to list them. A DoI means some have not, so you need to tell the user what is met and what therefore is not. Crucially, the recipient of a DoI has to carry out further work to bring the equipment into full compliance, so they need to know what that work involves. JohnC From: Crane, Lauren [mailto:lauren.cr...@kla-tencor.com] Sent: 02 December 2013 15:58 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity Perhaps discussion of DoI vs. DoC is getting tangled. A DoI is a concept only available to the MD, and because it is related to a machine that is partly complete, it must include a list of the MD Annex I essential heath and safety requirements that have been applied and fulfilled. The assumption being that some have not been fulfilled because the machine is only partly completed. In my experience, people often misunderstand the fine point details associated with partly completed machinery declarations because they are not necessarily aligned with common sense. Download the MD guide and give it a read. http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/mechanical/files/machinery/guide-appl-2006-42-ec-2nd-201006_en.pdf Regards, Lauren Crane KLA-Tencor From: Mark Schmidt mark.schm...@dornerworks.commailto:mark.schm...@dornerworks.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:14:23 PM Subject: [PSES] Declaration of Conformity Hello List, I need some help. I am very new to the Machinery Directive and my customer received a non-conformance from their customer about their DoC. It appears that my customer’s distributor generated a DoI, and it appears that it needs to be a DoC and most importantly their complaint is that it should include a list of which EHSRs are met or not met. Where or how do I determine if these are met or not. Is there a good place to reference? Any help is appreciated like I said I am a newbie when it comes to the Machinery Directive. Thanks, Mark Schmidt - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to LT;emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.orgGT; All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas LT;emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.netGT; Mike Cantwell LT;mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.orgGT; For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher LT;j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.orgGT; David Heald LT;dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.comGT; - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules:
