Re: [PSES] IEC 61010-1 Table K.17
Doug, The standard must assume the RF circuits are even more energy-limited than secondary circuits is my best guess. If so, it doesn't say that anywhere I could find. It takes voltage, but also energy to create an ionizing path. Regards, Brian Gregory 720-450-4933 -- Original Message -- From: Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] IEC 61010-1 Table K.17 Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 16:47:28 -0600 All, I am evaluating spacings for an RF product that operates at 13.56 MHz and can produce maximum voltages of 5,000 Vrms (7,070 Vpk). If I do an interpolation of using Table 6 (Mains 230 V, OV Cat II, indexing on 5,000 Vrms), I get a minimum clearance requirement of 14.9 mm. When I do the same calculation on Table K.17 (column 3, indexing on 7,070 Vpk), I get 12.7 mm. Now I understand the effects of high frequency voltage stress causing air molecules to become more energetic and therefore more likely to break down at lower voltages. So why in this case does IEC 61010-1 Table K.17 result in lower clearance values than Table 6? Somehow, this just seems wrong. Please note that in the case of high frequencies paragraph K.3.1 indicates I am to skip over section K.3.2 with the D1 + F × (D2 ndash; D1) calculations. Thanks a bunch! Doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
[PSES] ISO 22523
Dear Members, Does anyone know any regulatory agent requires a product test to ISO 22523: 2006 (http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=37546)? For 61000-4-3, this standard requires 12 V/m, 26 MHz - 1 GHz. Thank you very much and I look forward to hearing from you. Best regards, Grace Lin - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] ISO 22523
In message CAJq2vai7851KwaNM8ULunB0Uo=k---p-e2t+69wcgc5p__b...@mail.gmail.com, dated Tue, 11 Aug 2015, Grace Lin graceli...@gmail.com writes: Does anyone know any regulatory agent requires a product test to ISO 22523: 2006 (http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=37546)? For 61000-4-3, this standard requires 12 V/m, 26 MHz - 1 GHz. I don't know, but I expect the people who need the prostheses hope so. In the early days of electronically-controlled prostheses, there was a lot of trouble with immunity. For example, a man was arrested for urinating in public because his bladder controller had been triggered by the police car radio. A requirement like this is not so very rare. Sound level meters, for example, have it. It was introduced because of the prevalence of CB radio transceivers and in some countries there is amateur radio around 26 MHz, 50 MHz, 144 MHz and bands above, model control around 27 MHz (but low power), also public utility radio around 70 MHz. There is also a 'home automation' band around 34 MHz but no-one seems to use it. However, for sound level meters, anyway, the requirement is in the early stages of a review. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk When I turn my back on the sun, it's to look for a rainbow John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] IEC 61010-1 Table K.17
Hi Doug: A simple (and therefore incomplete) explanation: Breakdown in air requires the ions to travel from one pole to the other before the polarity reverses. At high frequencies, the polarity reverses before the ions can travel the distance between the poles. At high frequencies (compared to mains frequencies) the clearance can be less. See: http://lss.fnal.gov/archive/other/ssc/sscl-539.pdf http://ewh.ieee.org/r10/taiwan/pses/archive/2012_0 4_27/IEEE%20PSES%20April/TC108%20hf_FC_v.1.2_IEEE% 20PSES%20TAI.pdf Best regards, Rich -- Original Message -- From: Doug Powell doug...@gmail.com mailto:doug...@gmail.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] IEC 61010-1 Table K.17 Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 16:47:28 -0600 All, I am evaluating spacings for an RF product that operates at 13.56 MHz and can produce maximum voltages of 5,000 Vrms (7,070 Vpk). If I do an interpolation of using Table 6 (Mains 230 V, OV Cat II, indexing on 5,000 Vrms), I get a minimum clearance requirement of 14.9 mm. When I do the same calculation on Table K.17 (column 3, indexing on 7,070 Vpk), I get 12.7 mm. Now I understand the effects of high frequency voltage stress causing air molecules to become more energetic and therefore more likely to break down at lower voltages. So why in this case does IEC 61010-1 Table K.17 result in lower clearance values than Table 6? Somehow, this just seems wrong. Please note that in the case of high frequencies paragraph K.3.1 indicates I am to skip over section K.3.2 with the D1 + F × (D2 D1) calculations. Thanks a bunch! Doug Douglas E Powell doug...@gmail.com mailto:doug...@gmail.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas sdoug...@ieee.org Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
