date:20151215

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

2015-12-15 Thread Rodney Davis

Being familiar with 60950-1  I can tell you there are no Canadian/USA 
deviations on markings. I would definitely request the NRTL to provide the 
clauses reference in the standard and to share their Design manual which should 
help to resolve the issue.


Rodney Davis


From: John Cochran 
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 1:37 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems


Recently a customer has corrected the markings of terminal blocks inside of an 
industrial control panel my company built.  An NRTL has evaluated the system 
and says the terminal markings for Line (L), Neutral (N), and Ground (G) are 
incorrect for a 220VAC input condition.  Their evaluation says that N is 
incorrect and should be labeled (L2) and the Line as (L1).  I agree that this 
is technically corrected for a North American wired 220VAC input as it consists 
of 2 live wires, each 110VAC.  For international use, 220VAC is only on one leg 
(L) and the return is (N).  This system is capable of handling 90-240VAC 
single-phase input, but the customer has been instructed by the NRTL that for 
110VAC input the terminals should be marked L/N/PE, and for 220VAC input the 
terminals should be marked L1/L2/PE.  This would require different construction 
for North America and International use.  Do I have an argument that the NRTL 
has made an incorrect assessment?



Thanks,

John Cochran

Strongarm Energy Division

STRONGARM Designs

423 Sargon Way, Horsham, PA 19044

Ph: 215-443-3400 x219   Fax: 215-443-3002

jcoch...@strongarm.com



-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>


NOTE: This e-mail (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the 
intended recipient(s) and may contain information that is confidential and/or 
protected by legal privilege. Any unauthorized review, use, copy, disclosure or 
distribution of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended 
recipient, please notify Mitel immediately and destroy all copies of this 
e-mail. Mitel does not accept any liability for breach of security, error or 
virus that may result from the transmission of this message.

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

2015-12-15 Thread Brian O'Connell

Do not disagree in principal, but the Type Tests and construction requirements 
of L/N/PE terminals vs L1/L2/N terminals can vary with the scoped product 
safety standards and building code.

Brian

From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 12:00 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

I've used a lot of small listed/certified DC power supplies that are wide-range 
voltage input but have the terminals marked L, N, PE.  These could also be 
wired to L1 -L2 or L1-N in the US or L1-N in Europe.

-Dave

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 2:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

Hi John:

If you can, I would include both markings, 

90-230 volts:  L, N, PE; 
220 volts:   L1, L2, PE (North America).  

(I am assuming that the equipment ratings marked on the equipment are 
wide-range, e.g., 90-240 volts.)

The NRTL should not object to a dual marking.  

Do I have an argument that the NRTL has made an incorrect assessment?

No.  By your own admission, the NRTL is correct.  The NRTL is somewhat 
narrow-minded in not recognizing that the rest of the world is L, N, PE at 230 
volts, and that your equipment model is for world-wide use, not just for North 
America.  

Today, lots of equipment is wide-range and for the world market.  Having 
terminals requires the NRTL and you to re-visit what has been accepted using a 
power cord and appliance coupler.

Good luck!
Rich

From: John Cochran [mailto:jcoch...@strongarm.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 10:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

Recently a customer has corrected the markings of terminal blocks inside of an 
industrial control panel my company built.  An NRTL has evaluated the system 
and says the terminal markings for Line (L), Neutral (N), and Ground (G) are 
incorrect for a 220VAC input condition.  Their evaluation says that N is 
incorrect and should be labeled (L2) and the Line as (L1).  I agree that this 
is technically corrected for a North American wired 220VAC input as it consists 
of 2 live wires, each 110VAC.  For international use, 220VAC is only on one leg 
(L) and the return is (N).  This system is capable of handling 90-240VAC 
single-phase input, but the customer has been instructed by the NRTL that for 
110VAC input the terminals should be marked L/N/PE, and for 220VAC input the 
terminals should be marked L1/L2/PE.  This would require different construction 
for North America and International use.  Do I have an argument that the NRTL 
has made an incorrect assessment?

Thanks,
John Cochran
Strongarm Energy Division
STRONGARM Designs
423 Sargon Way, Horsham, PA 19044
Ph: 215-443-3400 x219   Fax: 215-443-3002
jcoch...@strongarm.com 

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

2015-12-15 Thread Nyffenegger, Dave

I've used a lot of small listed/certified DC power supplies that are wide-range 
voltage input but have the terminals marked L, N, PE.  These could also be 
wired to L1 -L2 or L1-N in the US or L1-N in Europe.

-Dave

From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 2:43 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

Hi John:

If you can, I would include both markings,

90-230 volts:  L, N, PE;
220 volts:   L1, L2, PE (North America).

(I am assuming that the equipment ratings marked on the equipment are 
wide-range, e.g., 90-240 volts.)

The NRTL should not object to a dual marking.

Do I have an argument that the NRTL has made an incorrect assessment?

No.  By your own admission, the NRTL is correct.  The NRTL is somewhat 
narrow-minded in not recognizing that the rest of the world is L, N, PE at 230 
volts, and that your equipment model is for world-wide use, not just for North 
America.

Today, lots of equipment is wide-range and for the world market.  Having 
terminals requires the NRTL and you to re-visit what has been accepted using a 
power cord and appliance coupler.

Good luck!
Rich

From: John Cochran [mailto:jcoch...@strongarm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 10:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

Recently a customer has corrected the markings of terminal blocks inside of an 
industrial control panel my company built.  An NRTL has evaluated the system 
and says the terminal markings for Line (L), Neutral (N), and Ground (G) are 
incorrect for a 220VAC input condition.  Their evaluation says that N is 
incorrect and should be labeled (L2) and the Line as (L1).  I agree that this 
is technically corrected for a North American wired 220VAC input as it consists 
of 2 live wires, each 110VAC.  For international use, 220VAC is only on one leg 
(L) and the return is (N).  This system is capable of handling 90-240VAC 
single-phase input, but the customer has been instructed by the NRTL that for 
110VAC input the terminals should be marked L/N/PE, and for 220VAC input the 
terminals should be marked L1/L2/PE.  This would require different construction 
for North America and International use.  Do I have an argument that the NRTL 
has made an incorrect assessment?

Thanks,
John Cochran
Strongarm Energy Division
STRONGARM Designs
423 Sargon Way, Horsham, PA 19044
Ph: 215-443-3400 x219   Fax: 215-443-3002
jcoch...@strongarm.com

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas mailto:sdoug...@ieee.org>>
Mike Cantwell mailto:mcantw...@ieee.org>>

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher mailto:j.bac...@ieee.org>>
David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

2015-12-15 Thread Richard Nute

 

 

Hi John:

 

 

If you can, I would include both markings, 

 

90-230 volts:  L, N, PE; 

220 volts:   L1, L2, PE (North America).  

 

(I am assuming that the equipment ratings marked
on the equipment are wide-range, e.g., 90-240
volts.)

 

The NRTL should not object to a dual marking.  

 

Do I have an argument that the NRTL has made an
incorrect assessment?

 

No.  By your own admission, the NRTL is correct.
The NRTL is somewhat narrow-minded in not
recognizing that the rest of the world is L, N, PE
at 230 volts, and that your equipment model is for
world-wide use, not just for North America.  

 

Today, lots of equipment is wide-range and for the
world market.  Having terminals requires the NRTL
and you to re-visit what has been accepted using a
power cord and appliance coupler.

 

 

Good luck!

Rich

 

 

From: John Cochran [mailto:jcoch...@strongarm.com]

Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2015 10:38 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Internal connection labels in
220VAC systems

 

Recently a customer has corrected the markings of
terminal blocks inside of an industrial control
panel my company built.  An NRTL has evaluated the
system and says the terminal markings for Line
(L), Neutral (N), and Ground (G) are incorrect for
a 220VAC input condition.  Their evaluation says
that N is incorrect and should be labeled (L2) and
the Line as (L1).  I agree that this is
technically corrected for a North American wired
220VAC input as it consists of 2 live wires, each
110VAC.  For international use, 220VAC is only on
one leg (L) and the return is (N).  This system is
capable of handling 90-240VAC single-phase input,
but the customer has been instructed by the NRTL
that for 110VAC input the terminals should be
marked L/N/PE, and for 220VAC input the terminals
should be marked L1/L2/PE.  This would require
different construction for North America and
International use.  Do I have an argument that the
NRTL has made an incorrect assessment?

 

Thanks,

John Cochran

Strongarm Energy Division

STRONGARM Designs

423 Sargon Way, Horsham, PA 19044

Ph: 215-443-3400 x219   Fax: 215-443-3002

jcoch...@strongarm.com
  

 


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

2015-12-15 Thread McDiarmid, Ralph

Ask him to reference a clause in an applicable standard.

Do you know if spacings from N to PE circuit and to dead metal have been 
evaluated for 240V ?   (in the event it gets cross wired during 
installation)
___ 


Ralph McDiarmid  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  | 
  Regulatory Compliance Engineering 




From:
John Cochran 
To:
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG, 
Date:
12/15/2015 10:46 AM
Subject:
[PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems



Recently a customer has corrected the markings of terminal blocks inside 
of an industrial control panel my company built.  An NRTL has evaluated 
the system and says the terminal markings for Line (L), Neutral (N), and 
Ground (G) are incorrect for a 220VAC input condition.  Their evaluation 
says that N is incorrect and should be labeled (L2) and the Line as (L1). 
I agree that this is technically corrected for a North American wired 
220VAC input as it consists of 2 live wires, each 110VAC.  For 
international use, 220VAC is only on one leg (L) and the return is (N). 
This system is capable of handling 90-240VAC single-phase input, but the 
customer has been instructed by the NRTL that for 110VAC input the 
terminals should be marked L/N/PE, and for 220VAC input the terminals 
should be marked L1/L2/PE.  This would require different construction for 
North America and International use.  Do I have an argument that the NRTL 
has made an incorrect assessment?
 
Thanks,
John Cochran
Strongarm Energy Division
STRONGARM Designs
423 Sargon Way, Horsham, PA 19044
Ph: 215-443-3400 x219   Fax: 215-443-3002
jcoch...@strongarm.com 
 

__
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
__
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <
emc-p...@ieee.org>
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell  
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher 
David Heald  


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

[PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

2015-12-15 Thread John Cochran

Recently a customer has corrected the markings of terminal blocks inside of an 
industrial control panel my company built.  An NRTL has evaluated the system 
and says the terminal markings for Line (L), Neutral (N), and Ground (G) are 
incorrect for a 220VAC input condition.  Their evaluation says that N is 
incorrect and should be labeled (L2) and the Line as (L1).  I agree that this 
is technically corrected for a North American wired 220VAC input as it consists 
of 2 live wires, each 110VAC.  For international use, 220VAC is only on one leg 
(L) and the return is (N).  This system is capable of handling 90-240VAC 
single-phase input, but the customer has been instructed by the NRTL that for 
110VAC input the terminals should be marked L/N/PE, and for 220VAC input the 
terminals should be marked L1/L2/PE.  This would require different construction 
for North America and International use.  Do I have an argument that the NRTL 
has made an incorrect assessment?

Thanks,
John Cochran
Strongarm Energy Division
STRONGARM Designs
423 Sargon Way, Horsham, PA 19044
Ph: 215-443-3400 x219   Fax: 215-443-3002
jcoch...@strongarm.com


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald:

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

Re: [PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

[PSES] Internal connection labels in 220VAC systems

6 matches

Site Navigation

Mail list logo

Footer information