Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

[Scott Xe]

John,

Is the 32A breaker an IRE requirement and every household must comply 
regardless how old the house is?  On one occasion, some UK engineers told me 
that a small group of house in UK and EU still do not have such 32A breaker 
installed.  Thus the equipment complying with LVD Directive may not be safe in 
abnormal operation.

Scott

-Original Message-
From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 1:50 PM
To: Ralph McDiarmid ;
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

A 32 A breaker connects to a loop of 2.5 mm^2 3-core cable (line, neutral
and protective). A large number (there is a limit but it's complicated) of
13 A wall outlets can be connected to this ring, relying on diversity to
keep the total current below 32 A.

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
J M Woodgate and Associates Rayleigh England

Sylvae in aeternum manent.


-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid [mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 7:34 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

What's a "ring circuit" ?


Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric




From: Richard Nute [mailto:ri...@ieee.org]
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 12:01 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply


I understood the fuse in the U.K. plug was to protect the power cordage.  In
the U.K., outlets are supplied by a ring circuit rather than a branch
circuit, therefore the power cord could exceed its ampacity (a U.S.A. term).
So, if no power cord, no need for a fuse in the plug.
I wonder if the power supply has a fuse to protect the power supply.  If so,
would this count as the plug fuse?

Rich


From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 5:01 AM
To: mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

I received a 5 W SMPS plug-in power supply as part of a multi-unit product.
It has interchangeable pins for EU, US, Australian and UK  sockets, but it
has no fuse. I think this is illegal and intend to notify Trading Standards,
as the overall product is marketed by a prominent European company and is
widely offered on the Internet.
Is there any exemption at all for the requirement that a BS 1363 plug in any
form must have a fuse?

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Re: [PSES] UL Go?

[Scott Xe]

100% agree with you.  Those testing service companies just re-package their 
existing services and give them a new name to sell to other companies who 
believe testing companies know everything about product compliance.  Looking at 
their quotation and to see if you can find something like all the mandatory 
requirements of the product for the country.  That is most people mis-interpret 
the capability of those testing service companies.  They may be the expertise 
and most knowledgeable on their testing scope.  If you need those limited info 
only, they are your good partner.

 

Scott

 

 

 

 

From: Peter Tarver 
Reply-To: Peter Tarver 
Date: Saturday, 17 December 2016 at 2:20 AM
To: 
Subject: Re: [PSES] UL Go?

 

It should be kept in mind that all of these so-called services are sales tools. 
My experience with all of the agencies discussed have been less than stellar on 
the delivery side, once a PO is placed.

 

Peter Tarver

 

 

The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. 
It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is 
addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the 
intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in 
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[PSES] confused about the following exempted equipment from the FCC

[Gary McInturff]

This seems to imply that as long as your sticking a device normally subject to 
the published limits and tests can be ignored if it is going into a large 
industrial park. So for example and automated box sealing equipment located 
inside of an industrial part is exempted from the limits and tests normally 
associated with digital equipment. There is still the caveat that it can't 
interfere but I assume that this would only happen because of a complaint from 
adjacent users. How about theme parks etc. The public utilities in the US have 
many exemptions to the regulations but not industrial locations. I presumed 
that testing in those case for large equipment that didn't fit in a chamber was 
subject to at least in-situ testing. But I'm clueless how those measurements 
would include or exclude the devices EMC performance.
15.103 Exempted devices.
The following devices are subject only to the general conditions of operation 
in §§15.5 and 15.29 and are exempt from the specific technical standards and 
other requirements contained in this part. The operator of the exempted device 
shall be required to stop operating the device upon a finding by the Commission 
or its representative that the device is causing harmful interference. 
Operation shall not resume until the condition causing the harmful interference 
has been corrected. Although not mandatory, it is strongly recommended that the 
manufacturer of an exempted device endeavor to have the device meet the 
specific technical standards in this part.
(a) A digital device utilized exclusively in any transportation vehicle 
including motor vehicles and aircraft.
(b) A digital device used exclusively as an electronic control or power system 
utilized by a public utility or in an industrial plant. The term public utility 
includes equipment only to the extent that it is in a dedicated building or 
large room owned or leased by the utility and does not extend to equipment 
installed in a subscriber's facility.


Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer












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Re: [PSES] UL Go?

[John Woodgate]

More lunatic than stellar?
 
With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO – Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and 
Associates Rayleigh England
 
Sylvae in aeternum manent.
 
From: Peter Tarver [mailto:ptar...@enphaseenergy.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 6:20 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] UL Go?
 
It should be kept in mind that all of these so-called services are sales tools. 
My experience with all of the agencies discussed have been less than stellar on 
the delivery side, once a PO is placed.
 
Peter Tarver
 
 
The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. 
It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is 
addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the 
intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in 
any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, 
please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this 
message! 
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 >
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Re: [PSES] UL Go?

[Peter Tarver]

It should be kept in mind that all of these so-called services are sales tools. 
My experience with all of the agencies discussed have been less than stellar on 
the delivery side, once a PO is placed.

Peter Tarver


The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential. 
It is intended to be read only by the individual or entity to whom it is 
addressed or by their designee. If the reader of this message is not the 
intended recipient, you are on notice that any distribution of this message, in 
any form, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, 
please immediately notify the sender and delete or destroy any copy of this 
message!

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Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

[john Allen]

Might not be wired - may be "thought controlled"!

 

From: Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net] 
Sent: 15 December 2016 22:51
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

I assume that the TARDIS wiring plan is more complicated than external
appearances suggest.

 

Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA

 

-Original Message-
From: Ted Eckert [mailto:07cf6ebeab9d-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org] 
Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:20 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

Some wiring can get more complicated. J. R. R. Tolkien's  house had 9 rings
for the humans, 7 for the dwarves and 3 for the elves. I presume that there
was a fairly large circuit breaker for the one ring-main to rule them all. I
heard that the electrician kept muttering something about his "precious"
being missing when that main breaker tripped.

 

Ted Eckert

Microsoft

The opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my
employer or Sauron.

 

-Original Message-

From: John Allen [ 
mailto:john_e_al...@blueyonder.co.uk]

Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:06 AM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

Ralph

 

Following on from John W's post, some larger properties will have more than

2 ring-mains, plus a number of dedicated branches/spurs/radials for larger
loads such as cookers, fixed water heaters and so on. In additional
branches/spurs/radials can be used for areas where the ring approach might
not be appropriate for physical reasons - such as adjacent sheds, garages
and so on - and these would be over-current limited to the cable ratings
because the diversity principle obviously cannot be applied.

 

Thus, normal domestic ring main circuits would be required in 2.5mm "twin
and earth" cable (another fairly unique UK concept where the grounding
conductor is reduced in size) and be protected by a 32A breaker, whereas
branch/spur/radial using the same cable must be protected by 16A breakers.

 

BTW: UK fuses and breakers generally follow the IEC standards approach and
are rated for continuous running at the stated rating, in contrast to the
N.American convention where the fuses/breakers are rated their blow-ratings

- thus a 16A UK/IEC breaker can be run at 16A continuous whereas a
N.American 15A breaker cannot be run continuously run at 15A.

 

John E Allen

W.London, UK.

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Ralph McDiarmid [ 
mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]

Sent: 15 December 2016 18:30

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

An interesting design philosophy which has benefits,  but it seems to rely
on pluggable appliances having an appropriate size fuse in their cordage.

 

You could for example wire an entire house with 3 or 4 of these circuits,
rather than a panel full of circuit breakers so common in N.Am

 

Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric

 

 

 

 

*Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail



 

 

-Original Message-

From: John Woodgate [ 
mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]

Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 1:50 PM

To: Ralph McDiarmid < 
ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com>;

  EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: RE: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

A 32 A breaker connects to a loop of 2.5 mm^2 3-core cable (line, neutral
and protective). A large number (there is a limit but it's complicated) of

13 A wall outlets can be connected to this ring, relying on diversity to
keep the total current below 32 A.

 

With best wishes DESIGN IT IN! OOO - Own Opinions Only
 www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and
Associates Rayleigh England

 

Sylvae in aeternum manent.

 

 

-Original Message-

From: Ralph McDiarmid [ 
mailto:ralph.mcdiar...@schneider-electric.com]

Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 7:34 PM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply

 

What's a "ring circuit" ?

 

 

Ralph McDiarmid

Product Compliance

Engineering

Solar Business

Schneider Electric

 

 

 

 

From: Richard Nute [  mailto:ri...@ieee.org]

Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 12:01 PM

To:   EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG

Subject: Re: [PSES] British question, about a BS1363 plug-in power supply