Re: [PSES] Old editions of IEC 65

[Peter Tarver]

fifth edition, 1976 (original) has been spoken for.


Priority:   normal
Date sent:  Mon, 21 Aug 2017 06:31:55 -0700
Send reply to:  ptar...@ieee.org

> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I'm going through old papers and discarding items I'm no
> longer interested in keeping. I came across two old IEC 65
> editions. If anyone on the list has an historical (or other)
> interest in having these documents, I'm happy to save them
> from the bin.
> 
> fourth edition, 1972 (photocopied)
> fifth edition, 1976 (original)
> an erratum to the third edition (photocopied)
> 
> I'll hang onto these for a couple weeks, but they'll be in
> the recycling bin or donated to a library after that.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Peter Tarver
> 

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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Ralph McDiarmid]

Hi Brian,

An open-circuit of 15kV pk and short-circuit peak of 7500A, tells me an 
internal impedance of 2 ohms.  If I recall correctly, 61000-4-5 specifies 
source impedance, depending on L-L or L-G coupling  (2 ohms or 12 ohms)

Ralph McDiarmid
Product Compliance
Engineering
Solar Business
Schneider Electric


From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:29 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

Hello All, 

We have a base design that passed testing (exhibiting no damage) using a 
1.2u/50uS open-circuit of 15kV, and an 8/20uS current peak of 7.5kA, as per 
IEC61000-4-5. (This product did not include the extra design features that I 
proposed earlier, only basic surge suppression, and a fuse rated for higher 
energy). 
I believe that the internal surge impedance is specified for this test 
equipment, but I don't know it offhand. 
Testing used 5 positive and 5 negative pulses for each of Line-Ground, Line 
-Neutral, and Neutral- Ground.

My impression was that in case of a short-circuited or leaky surge suppression 
device, the primary fusing might not be of a value that would not open soon 
enough to prevent possible shock hazard from leakage.  Therefore a secondary 
series fuse, or series spark gap device would be required to stop this 
condition.   
 
Best Regards, 
Brian C. 

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3
Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.



From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] 
Sent: August-22-17 10:06 AM
To: Brian Ceresney ; 
mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

>From what impedance? I know that these are successive questions, but without 
>information about the source, nothing can be reliably designed. Standards in 
>the IEC 62561 series might help with information.

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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[john Allen]

Brian C

 

I faced the very issue that you raised in your last para below at  a company
(best not to name!) for which I worked after I "inherited" a situation where
unprotected GDTs had been designed in to correct an EMC-specific surge test
failure, and further design changes were not really feasible.

 

In short (after a lot of time and effort - and "discussion"), I had to
resort to specifying that an additional protective Ground conductor be
attached to the unit (there being other application-specific issues which
meant that protection by the conductor in the mains supply cord could not be
guaranteed in some instances) before power was applied for the first time in
order to cater for a double fault condition to ensure that that the unit
chassis does not attain a hazardous voltage/current. Not, by any means, an
"ideal" solution, but, provided that the installation instructions and
operator-training requirements are obeyed, it should work.

 

That said, I believe that any sensible design should provide adequate
protection against any failure of such surge protection devices  which could
result in shock hazards without such "additional measures" - and that any
such failure should then be immediately flagged in some form (e.g. equipment
does not work, or that the failure is "vividly" flagged to  users by
lights/sounds and so on!).

 

John E Allen

W. London, UK

 

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 21:29
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

Hello All, 

 

We have a base design that passed testing (exhibiting no damage) using a
1.2u/50uS open-circuit of 15kV, and an 8/20uS current peak of 7.5kA, as per
IEC61000-4-5. (This product did not include the extra design features that I
proposed earlier, only basic surge suppression, and a fuse rated for higher
energy). 

I believe that the internal surge impedance is specified for this test
equipment, but I don't know it offhand. 

Testing used 5 positive and 5 negative pulses for each of Line-Ground, Line
-Neutral, and Neutral- Ground.

 

My impression was that in case of a short-circuited or leaky surge
suppression device, the primary fusing might not be of a value that would
not open soon enough to prevent possible shock hazard from leakage.
Therefore a secondary series fuse, or series spark gap device would be
required to stop this condition.   

 

Best Regards, 

Brian C. 

  _  

Brian Ceresney

Regulatory Lead

Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 

B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

 

 

 

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com] 
Sent: August-22-17 10:06 AM
To: Brian Ceresney ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

>From what impedance? I know that these are successive questions, but without
information about the source, nothing can be reliably designed. Standards in
the IEC 62561 series might help with information.

 

sage is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion
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 emc-p...@ieee.org>

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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Brian Ceresney]

Hello All,

We have a base design that passed testing (exhibiting no damage) using a 
1.2u/50uS open-circuit of 15kV, and an 8/20uS current peak of 7.5kA, as per 
IEC61000-4-5. (This product did not include the extra design features that I 
proposed earlier, only basic surge suppression, and a fuse rated for higher 
energy).
I believe that the internal surge impedance is specified for this test 
equipment, but I don't know it offhand.
Testing used 5 positive and 5 negative pulses for each of Line-Ground, Line 
-Neutral, and Neutral- Ground.

My impression was that in case of a short-circuited or leaky surge suppression 
device, the primary fusing might not be of a value that would not open soon 
enough to prevent possible shock hazard from leakage.  Therefore a secondary 
series fuse, or series spark gap device would be required to stop this 
condition.

Best Regards,
Brian C.

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3
Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.



From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: August-22-17 10:06 AM
To: Brian Ceresney >; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

>From what impedance? I know that these are successive questions, but without 
>information about the source, nothing can be reliably designed. Standards in 
>the IEC 62561 series might help with information.


sage is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion 
list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

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unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
David Heald >
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
David Heald >

-

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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Richard Nute]

 

Hi Brian:

 

If your charger is powered from 120/240 volts
domestic service, the maximum transient
over-voltage is about 6 kV due to the clearances
in the service entrance.  Domestic equipment will
never see 15 kV.

 

Likewise, for industrial service, the maximum
transient over-voltage will be determined by the
clearances in the service entrance, and not likely
as high as 15 kV (18 mm according to IEC 60664-1,
Table F.2).   

 

So, it appears to me that your charger is to be
connected to an unprotected overhead service that
is subject to lightning strikes up to 15 kV.
Suppression is difficult.

 

But, you said "pass," not suppress.  Easier, but
takes lots of space - 18 mm between all
conductors.  And some good, HV solid insulation.
Did your customer specify expected energy?

 

You might do a Google search for 15 kV surge
arrester.

 

Best regards,

Rich

 

 

From: Brian Ceresney
[mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 9:39 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and
Don'ts

 

We have been requested to pass 15kV on the mains
input. 

Best Regards, 

Brian C.

 

 

 

From: James Pawson (U3C) [

mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk] 
Sent: August-22-17 9:36 AM
To: Brian Ceresney <

bceres...@delta-q.com>;

EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and
Don'ts

 

Hello Brian,

 

What surge voltages are you testing to? Presumably
just on the mains input?

 

Thanks

James

 

 

From: Brian Ceresney [

mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31
To:  
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and
Don'ts

 

 

Dear Regulatory Experts,

We have recently had a request from a customer to
modify an industrial battery charger(48V, 1000W
output) to meet extremely high surge limits,
ostensibly to help survive lightning strikes. In
designing this version of the product, we have
added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground,
Line-Line, and Neutral-Ground positions. This
product is intended for use in North America, and
Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both.


 

I recall from previous discussions on this forum
that there are specific requirements for accepting
this type of design, due to the inevitable failure
of the surge protection devices. I believe that
fuse protection in line with each surge device is
required, as well as some sort of indication to
warn the user when the surge protection circuitry
is damaged. Series connected spark -gap devices
were mentioned, and there was also some discussion
about the rationale behind dielectric strength
testing, and how to perform it, especially on the
production line. 

 

I've searched the archives, but not found anything
definitive that is recent. In addition, even
though Google is my friend, I have not managed to
find a standard that can offer me up to date
guidance on this issue. 

Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any
other document that can light my way?   

Thanks, in advance,

 

Best Regards, 

Brian (the third Brian, I think) 

 

  _  

Brian Ceresney

Regulatory Lead

Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 

B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

 


-

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

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For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Joe Randolph]

Hi Brian:

 

I've been following this thread and have some comments/questions:

 

1)  I work mostly with telecom lightning protection, but I'm pretty sure
you are correct that for AC mains protection, there are some international
standards that prohibit simply placing an MOV line-to-ground and possibly
also line-to-line.  The concern is that MOVs tend to fail short and this is
considered to be a hazard.  In cases where the designer really wants to use
an MOV, there are circuit techniques such as packaging the MOV with a
thermal fuse and/or placing the MOV in series with a gas tube.

 

2)  My impression is that you want to include this surge protection
within a battery charger that you manufacture, rather than simply adding an
external "surge protector" from a third party.  If the protection will be
internal to the equipment, the circuit that you use and the components you
use will definitely be subject to review as part of the overall safety
approval of the product.

 

3)  The statement "pass 15 kV on the mains input" does not provide
sufficient information to determine the severity of the surges the equipment
must survive.  It's important to specify where the surges are applied
(line-to-ground, line-to-line, etc.), and what the short-circuit current of
the surge generator is.  The waveform used is also a factor, but in this
case it is likely to be the ITU "combination wave" that is typically used
for surge testing on AC mains.  Hopefully your customer has referenced a
recognized international standard that defines the surge generator and the
test connections.

 

4)  Lastly, while your first inclination might be to add line-side MOVs
to ground, you should be aware that this is not always necessary.  Sometimes
it is better to harden the line side of the power supply so that it can
withstand the short-circuit current of the line-to-line surges, and then
harden the AC mains isolation barrier so that it can withstand the
open-circuit voltage of the line-to-ground surges.  While 15 kV may seem
high, it is not that difficult to design an AC mains isolation barrier that
can withstand 15 kV.

 

If you are not familiar with lightning surge testing and the various
protection schemes that can be used, I can provide some suggested reference
material or some off-line email support.

 

 

Joe Randolph

Telecom Design Consultant

Randolph Telecom, Inc.

781-721-2848 (USA)

  j...@randolph-telecom.com

  http://www.randolph-telecom.com

 

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:39 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

We have been requested to pass 15kV on the mains input. 

Best Regards, 

Brian C.

 

 

 

From: James Pawson (U3C) [mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk] 
Sent: August-22-17 9:36 AM
To: Brian Ceresney  >;
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

Hello Brian,

 

What surge voltages are you testing to? Presumably just on the mains input?

 

Thanks

James

 

 

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

 

Dear Regulatory Experts,

We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial
battery charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits,
ostensibly to help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of
the product, we have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground,
Line-Line, and Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in
North America, and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both. 

 

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable
failure of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in
line with each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication
to warn the user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series
connected spark -gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some
discussion about the rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how
to perform it, especially on the production line. 

 

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is
recent. In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to
find a standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue. 

Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can
light my way?   

Thanks, in advance,

 

Best Regards, 

Brian (the third Brian, I think) 

 

  _  

Brian Ceresney

Regulatory Lead

Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 

B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Re: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

[Monrad Monsen]

Downloads fine in Firefox ESR [52.3.0 (32 bit)] and Microsoft Internet Explorer 
11 … both open the separate Adobe Acrobat Pro XI application.  

 

Also downloads fine in Google Chrome [version 60.0.3112.101 (64 bit)] which 
opens the file within a new tab within the Chrome browser.

 

Monrad

 

From: Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 4:26 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@listserv.ieee.org
Subject: [PSES] EU Blue Guide

 

Is anyone else having difficulty downloading a working copy of the Blue Guide 
at HYPERLINK 
"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ec.europa.eu_DocsRoom_documents_18027_=DwMFaQ=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10=kHgDg_xHpXI_PqsrbVJ2fMzpnpWfYBJz25hk0PAmX0s=GKsEE9KpnrZOM7MU4-TtpnzTH0NRM7AMnBgZig1KZ9s=_5sLKzGmHY6tulA8g_2_WRBboexyQczn0RcLMidD7VQ="http://ec.europa.eu/DocsRoom/documents/18027/
 

 

I've tried both formats to no avail.

 

thanks, Doug

 

-- 

 

Douglas E Powell

HYPERLINK "mailto:doug...@gmail.com"doug...@gmail.com
HYPERLINK 
"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.linkedin.com_in_dougp01=DwMFaQ=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PQcxBKCX5YTpkKY057SbK10=kHgDg_xHpXI_PqsrbVJ2fMzpnpWfYBJz25hk0PAmX0s=GKsEE9KpnrZOM7MU4-TtpnzTH0NRM7AMnBgZig1KZ9s=t-1_S852o0VVp_thr1q9UW8G-6oCa9Z5rjJvDanlEmg="http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01

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 can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: HYPERLINK 
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Instructions: HYPERLINK 
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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Steli Loznen]

Hi Brian,

Details about Surge suppressors you can find in the IEC 61644-1 and UL 1449
standards.

Best Regards,

Steli

 

 

 

Steli Loznen, M.Sc., SM-IEEE

Member of BoD IEEE-PSES

Convener IEC 62A/MT 62354

17-3 Shaul HaMelech Blvd.

Tel Aviv 6436719

Israel

Tel:+972-3-6912668

Fax:+972-3-6913988

Mobile:+972-54-7245794

e-mail: sloz...@ieee.org

 

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 7:39 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

We have been requested to pass 15kV on the mains input. 

Best Regards, 

Brian C.

 

 

 

From: James Pawson (U3C) [mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk] 
Sent: August-22-17 9:36 AM
To: Brian Ceresney  >;
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

Hello Brian,

 

What surge voltages are you testing to? Presumably just on the mains input?

 

Thanks

James

 

 

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

 

Dear Regulatory Experts,

We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial
battery charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits,
ostensibly to help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of
the product, we have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground,
Line-Line, and Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in
North America, and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both. 

 

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable
failure of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in
line with each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication
to warn the user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series
connected spark -gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some
discussion about the rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how
to perform it, especially on the production line. 

 

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is
recent. In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to
find a standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue. 

Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can
light my way?   

Thanks, in advance,

 

Best Regards, 

Brian (the third Brian, I think) 

 

  _  

Brian Ceresney

Regulatory Lead

Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 

B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

 

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

 

 

-


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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
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Scott Douglas  >
Mike Cantwell  > 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  >
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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
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Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe)  
List rules: 

Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

I second that.  The NRTLs and the standards are typically interested in safety, 
not product quality/reliability.  Reliability is up to the designer.
-Dave

From: John Woodgate [mailto:jmw1...@btinternet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

The point surely is that if the surge protection fails, and that is not 
detected and repaired, the next storm may destroy the equipment. As I said, I 
don't think this is a standards matter, it's a design matter.

It is absolutely essential to distinguish between designing to meet a standard 
and designing a reliable product.

With best wishes John Woodgate
3 Bramfield Road East, RAYLEIGH Essex SS6 8RG UK OOO - Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and Associates

Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).


From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com]
Sent: 22 August 2017 18:03
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

I've not had any NRTL be concerned with protection of the surge protector.  The 
surge protector is typically protecting against product failure not fire or 
operator injury.  The NRTL is not concerned with surge protector failure as 
long as it doesn't result in a hazardous condition.  If the manufacturer of the 
surge protector has specific conditions of use including protection then the 
NRTL would expect those to be followed.  Of course they want to see that the 
surge protector itself is NRTL approved.  The surge protectors typically need 
to be removed for production line dielectric test, this is understood by the 
NRTL.

-Dave

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts


Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial battery 
charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits, ostensibly to 
help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of the product, we 
have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground, Line-Line, and 
Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in North America, 
and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both.

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific 
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable failure 
of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in line with 
each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication to warn the 
user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series connected spark 
-gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some discussion about the 
rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how to perform it, especially 
on the production line.

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is recent. 
In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to find a 
standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue.
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can light 
my way?
Thanks, in advance,

Best Regards,
Brian (the third Brian, I think)


Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
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-

Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[John Woodgate]

The point surely is that if the surge protection fails, and that is not
detected and repaired, the next storm may destroy the equipment. As I said,
I don't think this is a standards matter, it's a design matter.
 
It is absolutely essential to distinguish between designing to meet a
standard and designing a reliable product.
 
With best wishes John Woodgate
3 Bramfield Road East, RAYLEIGH Essex SS6 8RG UK OOO - Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and
Associates 
 
Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).
 
 
From: Nyffenegger, Dave [mailto:dave.nyffeneg...@bhemail.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 18:03
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts
 
I've not had any NRTL be concerned with protection of the surge protector.
The surge protector is typically protecting against product failure not fire
or operator injury.  The NRTL is not concerned with surge protector failure
as long as it doesn't result in a hazardous condition.  If the manufacturer
of the surge protector has specific conditions of use including protection
then the NRTL would expect those to be followed.  Of course they want to see
that the surge protector itself is NRTL approved.  The surge protectors
typically need to be removed for production line dielectric test, this is
understood by the NRTL.
 
-Dave
 
From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts
 
 
Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial
battery charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits,
ostensibly to help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of
the product, we have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground,
Line-Line, and Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in
North America, and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both. 
 
I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable
failure of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in
line with each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication
to warn the user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series
connected spark -gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some
discussion about the rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how
to perform it, especially on the production line. 
 
I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is
recent. In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to
find a standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue. 
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can
light my way?   
Thanks, in advance,
 
Best Regards, 
Brian (the third Brian, I think) 
 
  _  

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3
 
Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
 
 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe)  
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
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Mike Cantwell  > 
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  >
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >
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http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are 

Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Nyffenegger, Dave]

I've not had any NRTL be concerned with protection of the surge protector.  The 
surge protector is typically protecting against product failure not fire or 
operator injury.  The NRTL is not concerned with surge protector failure as 
long as it doesn't result in a hazardous condition.  If the manufacturer of the 
surge protector has specific conditions of use including protection then the 
NRTL would expect those to be followed.  Of course they want to see that the 
surge protector itself is NRTL approved.  The surge protectors typically need 
to be removed for production line dielectric test, this is understood by the 
NRTL.

-Dave

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 12:31 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts


Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial battery 
charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits, ostensibly to 
help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of the product, we 
have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground, Line-Line, and 
Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in North America, 
and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both.

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific 
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable failure 
of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in line with 
each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication to warn the 
user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series connected spark 
-gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some discussion about the 
rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how to perform it, especially 
on the production line.

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is recent. 
In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to find a 
standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue.
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can light 
my way?
Thanks, in advance,

Best Regards,
Brian (the third Brian, I think)


Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.


-


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
unsubscribe)
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For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas >
Mike Cantwell >

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher >
David Heald >

-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[John Woodgate]

>From what impedance? I know that these are successive questions, but without
information about the source, nothing can be reliably designed. Standards in
the IEC 62561 series might help with information.
 
With best wishes John Woodgate
3 Bramfield Road East, RAYLEIGH Essex SS6 8RG UK OOO - Own Opinions Only
  www.jmwa.demon.co.uk J M Woodgate and
Associates 
 
Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).
 
 
From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:39
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts
 
We have been requested to pass 15kV on the mains input. 
Best Regards, 
Brian C.
 
 
 
From: James Pawson (U3C) [mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk] 
Sent: August-22-17 9:36 AM
To: Brian Ceresney  >;
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts
 
Hello Brian,
 
What surge voltages are you testing to? Presumably just on the mains input?
 
Thanks
James
 
 
From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts
 
 
Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial
battery charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits,
ostensibly to help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of
the product, we have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground,
Line-Line, and Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in
North America, and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both. 
 
I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable
failure of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in
line with each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication
to warn the user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series
connected spark -gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some
discussion about the rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how
to perform it, especially on the production line. 
 
I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is
recent. In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to
find a standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue. 
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can
light my way?   
Thanks, in advance,
 
Best Regards, 
Brian (the third Brian, I think) 
 
  _  

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3
 
Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
 
 
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe)  
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html 
For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas  >
Mike Cantwell  > 
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  >
David Heald  > 
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to
unsubscribe) 

Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Brian Ceresney]

We have been requested to pass 15kV on the mains input.
Best Regards,
Brian C.



From: James Pawson (U3C) [mailto:ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk]
Sent: August-22-17 9:36 AM
To: Brian Ceresney ; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

Hello Brian,

What surge voltages are you testing to? Presumably just on the mains input?

Thanks
James


From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com]
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts


Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial battery 
charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits, ostensibly to 
help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of the product, we 
have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground, Line-Line, and 
Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in North America, 
and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both.

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific 
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable failure 
of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in line with 
each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication to warn the 
user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series connected spark 
-gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some discussion about the 
rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how to perform it, especially 
on the production line.

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is recent. 
In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to find a 
standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue.
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can light 
my way?
Thanks, in advance,

Best Regards,
Brian (the third Brian, I think)


Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

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http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[John Woodgate]

Standards are not intended to give design information, although sometimes it
may be deduced from the provisions. TVS are less likely to fail
catastrophically than varistors.
 
I think you have to seek papers and textbooks about the design of protection
against lightning. Since you are committed to third-party testing, standards
are of less significance.
 
With best wishes John Woodgate
3 Bramfield Road East, RAYLEIGH Essex SS6 8RG UK OOO - Own Opinions Only
www.jmwa.demon.co.uk   J M Woodgate and
Associates 
 
Beware averages! They hide or discard data, and may distort it (them?).
 
 
From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts
 
 
Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial
battery charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits,
ostensibly to help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of
the product, we have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground,
Line-Line, and Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in
North America, and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both. 
 
I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable
failure of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in
line with each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication
to warn the user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series
connected spark -gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some
discussion about the rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how
to perform it, especially on the production line. 
 
I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is
recent. In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to
find a standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue. 
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can
light my way?   
Thanks, in advance,
 
Best Regards, 
Brian (the third Brian, I think) 
 
  _  

Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3
 
Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.
 
 
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >
All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.
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Mike Cantwell  > 
For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  >
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[James Pawson (U3C)]

Hello Brian,

 

What surge voltages are you testing to? Presumably just on the mains input?

 

Thanks

James

 

 

From: Brian Ceresney [mailto:bceres...@delta-q.com] 
Sent: 22 August 2017 17:31
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

 

 

Dear Regulatory Experts,

We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial
battery charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits,
ostensibly to help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of
the product, we have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground,
Line-Line, and Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in
North America, and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both. 

 

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable
failure of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in
line with each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication
to warn the user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series
connected spark -gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some
discussion about the rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how
to perform it, especially on the production line. 

 

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is
recent. In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to
find a standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue. 

Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can
light my way?   

Thanks, in advance,

 

Best Regards, 

Brian (the third Brian, I think) 

 

  _  

Brian Ceresney

Regulatory Lead

Delta-Q Technologies Corp.

3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby, 

B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

 

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is
for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
message.

 

 

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to
 >

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in
well-used formats), large files, etc.

Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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Scott Douglas  >
Mike Cantwell  > 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher  >
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html

Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
Instructions:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)
List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html

For help, send mail to the list administrators:
Scott Douglas 
Mike Cantwell 

For policy questions, send mail to:
Jim Bacher:  
David Heald: 

Re: [PSES] Surge Suppression - Dos, and Don'ts

[Brian Ceresney]

Dear Regulatory Experts,
We have recently had a request from a customer to modify an industrial battery 
charger(48V, 1000W output) to meet extremely high surge limits, ostensibly to 
help survive lightning strikes. In designing this version of the product, we 
have added varistor surge protection from Line-Ground, Line-Line, and 
Neutral-Ground positions. This product is intended for use in North America, 
and Europe, and will be third-party-approved for both.

I recall from previous discussions on this forum that there are specific 
requirements for accepting this type of design, due to the inevitable failure 
of the surge protection devices. I believe that fuse protection in line with 
each surge device is required, as well as some sort of indication to warn the 
user when the surge protection circuitry is damaged. Series connected spark 
-gap devices were mentioned, and there was also some discussion about the 
rationale behind dielectric strength testing, and how to perform it, especially 
on the production line.

I've searched the archives, but not found anything definitive that is recent. 
In addition, even though Google is my friend, I have not managed to find a 
standard that can offer me up to date guidance on this issue.
Can anyone suggest standards, bulletins, or any other document that can light 
my way?
Thanks, in advance,

Best Regards,
Brian (the third Brian, I think)


Brian Ceresney
Regulatory Lead
Delta-Q Technologies Corp.
3755 Willingdon Avenue, Burnaby,
B.C. Canada. V5G 3H3

Confidentiality Notice: This email message, including any attachments, is for 
the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and 
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please 
contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
message.



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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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