[PSES] Licensing transmitters in the 70 to 80 GHz band (U.S./Canada)?

[Ken Wyatt]

Hi All,

I’m looking for someone familiar with the licensing procedure for transmitters 
in the 70-80 GHz band for U.S. and Canada.

Thanks in advance, Ken

___

I'm here to help you succeed! Feel free to call or email with any questions 
related to EMC or EMI troubleshooting - at no obligation. I'm always happy to 
help!

Kenneth Wyatt
Wyatt Technical Services LLC
56 Aspen Dr.
Woodland Park, CO 80863

Phone: (719) 310-5418

Web Site  | Blog 
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Subscribe to Newsletter 
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Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[Pete Perkins]

Ian,

 

Altho you haven't identified the source of the noise it
certainly is due to switching equipment upstream from your lab within you
building; VSDs are very noisy at lower frequencies.  

 

I recommend that you look for an electric motor-generator
unit to power your lab.  This should be much cleaner than any switching
source.  

 

:>) br,  Pete

 

Peter E Perkins, PE

Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant

PO Box 23427

Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

 

503/452-1201

 

IEEE Life Fellow

  p.perk...@ieee.org

 

From: McBurney, Ian  
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 1:11 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

 

Hello Ari.

 

I'm considering hiring an ac source to power the LISN but my only concern
would be that the ac source has high conducted rf emissions as I assume the
ac is derived from high frequency switching power devices.

 

regards 

 

Ian McBurney

Lead Compliance Engineer.

 

Allen & Heath Ltd.

Kernick Industrial Estate,

Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK

T: 01326 372070

E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com  

 

 

From: Ari Honkala [mailto:ari.honk...@sesko.fi] 
Sent: 26 April 2018 17:22
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

 

As an interim solution, until you get the source fixed, would be to use UPS
on battery.

 

with best regards,

 

Ari Honkala

 

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com] 
Sent: torstai 26. huhtikuuta 2018 13:33
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG  
Subject: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

 

Dear Colleagues.

 

I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond
that and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this
noise. I have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to
attenuate enough at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating
frequencies beyond 1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer
before the LISN but this appears to distort the measurements.

Can anyone recommend a solution?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Ian McBurney

Lead Compliance Engineer.

 

Allen & Heath Ltd.

Kernick Industrial Estate,

Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK

T: 01326 372070

E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com  

 

 

Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the
individual and not necessarily those of the company. 

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Re: [PSES] Radio modem - RED?

[Charlie Blackham]

Amund

Can you provide some more information on what the "radio modem" is and what the 
system is

Regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: 
www.sulisconsultants.com
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Amund Westin 
Sent: 27 April 2018 05:38
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Radio modem - RED?

In a radio system, the will be several devices as the antenna, amplifiers, 
frequency tuners, splitters and at the end a modem.
A modem, which will be placed deep in the block chain of the radio system, does 
it apply for RED? It's not connected directly to an antenna and not 
transmitting / receiving on the system frequency.
RED guide Chapter 1.6.3.6 mentions different items that is connected to an 
antenna, but the modem is not, it is placed further into the system.
But if RED apply, how can you test according to a "radio system" RED standard 
when your modem is not transmitting on that system frequency?


Best regards
Amund

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Re: [PSES] BS EN 62493:2015 Assessment of lighting equipment related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields

[Matthew Wilson]

I looked at the scope of the EN 62493:2015 standard and was confused by a 
statement at the end of section 1 scope on page 9 (of the preview).  It states 
“This standard does not apply to built-in components for luminaires such as 
electronic controlgear.”

What is supposed to be meant by that and why would it not apply?

Electronic controlgear is defined in the standard as

3.1.5
electronic controlgear
mains-supplied a.c./d.c. to a.c./d.c. invertor including stabilizing elements 
for starting and operating one or more lamps, generally at high frequency
Note 1 to entry: All kinds of igniters, starters, switches, dimmers (including 
phase control units e.g. triac, GTO) and sensors are not considered as 
electronic controlgear.

e.g. Say we have a LED ‘table lamp’ which is a luminaire with the AC-DC 
switch-mode power supply for the LED lamp, or perhaps a battery and some 
voltage regulation for the LED, along with some additional circuity to maybe 
dim the LED lamp all built in to the base of the luminaire. The LED in a holder 
above the base, nice shade over it etc. Does that statement in the scope mean 
none of that electronics in the base has to meet the standard?  So if that is 
the case, and all excluded, what exactly is there left to test for 
electromagnetic fields?

Thanks for any help with my confusion.  I’m not being daft am I? (It has been 
known!)

Matthew Wilson,
Technical Director,
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

From: Pete Perkins [mailto:0061f3f32d0c-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org]
Sent: 09 April 2018 19:20
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] BS EN 62493:2015 Assessment of lighting equipment related 
to human exposure to electromagnetic fields

Andy,

   I have not used 62493 so I’m not familiar with the details; I 
looked it up on the IEC website to get an idea as to what it covered and 
reported their summary.

   In reading thru this I see several points here.
1) The broad band radiation up to 300MHz must be for radiated emissions;
2) light itself is very limited in frequency and bandwidth so this must apply 
to the SMPS which are driving the lamps.  Interestingly enough I have seen 
quite robust Touch Current measurements from LED lighting SMPS; which will 
eventually be tamed by proper Touch Current measurements which include the up 
to 1Mhz HF portion allowed by the human body response to HF current.  But note 
that these HF components exist and can give rise to both conducted and radiated 
emissions;
3) SAR measurements indicate radiated emissions which would apply to LED 
systems (including their SMPS) which are worn on or close to the human body in 
their application.

   Perhaps someone else on this thread has more definite insight 
into the application and the need for these requirements; it would be good to 
hear from them.

:>) br,  Pete

Peter E Perkins, PE
Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
PO Box 23427
Tigard, ORe  97281-3427

503/452-1201

IEEE Life Fellow
p.perk...@ieee.org

From: McCallum, Andy 
>
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 7:52 AM
To: Pete Perkins >
Subject: RE: [PSES] BS EN 62493:2015 Assessment of lighting equipment related 
to human exposure to electromagnetic fields

Pete

Thanks yes it is LED so not an issue. Out of interest what type of lighting 
does it cover? The exemption list is quite comprehensive.

Andy

From: Pete Perkins [mailto:peperkin...@cs.com]
Sent: 29 March 2018 19:11
To: McCallum, Andy 
>; 
EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [PSES] BS EN 62493:2015 Assessment of lighting equipment related 
to human exposure to electromagnetic fields

Andy,

   Just to clarify:

Abstract; IEC 62493:2015 applies to the assessment of lighting equipment 
related to human exposure to electromagnetic fields. The assessment consists of 
the induced internal electric field for frequencies from 20 kHz to 10 MHz and 
the specific absorption rate (SAR) for frequencies from 100 kHz to 300 MHz 
around lighting equipment. This second edition cancels and replaces the first 
edition published in 2009. This edition constitutes a technical revision. This 
edition includes the following significant technical changes with respect to 
the previous edition:
a) identification of lighting product types deemed to comply with the standard 
without the need for test;
b) deletion of the need for CISPR-15-compliance as a prerequisite for IEC 62493 
compliance;
c) inclusion of the consequences of the ICNIPR 2010 guidelines for (up to 100 
kHz);
d) adding some guidance to the Van der Hoofden test head method to improve 
reproducibility of results;
e) inclusion of compliance demonstration method for products having intentional 
radiators.

   Does your lighting product fall 

Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[CATHERINE PEARSON]

Hi Ian, 
When you used the isolation transformer how did you have the earth connected or 
isolated? 

I have seen similar issues, I used an isolation transformer but connected the 
earth  or used a separate earth connection, I think I remember this  solved it. 

You could try finding the source of the noise, 
how certain are you that the LISN is not faulty? 
Normally they filter out emissions very well, could it be the LISN is faulty 
and passing the noise through or creating the noise it the first place? 
Can you run a set up to look at how noisy your mains supply is without any 
product connected to it? 
regards Darren. 

 

On Friday, 27 April 2018, 9:11, "McBurney, Ian" 
 wrote:
 

  Hello Ari.    I’m considering hiring an ac 
source to power the LISN but my only concern would be that the ac source has 
high conducted rf emissions as I assume the ac is derived from high frequency 
switching power devices.    regards     Ian McBurney Lead Compliance Engineer.  
  Allen & Heath Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK 
T: 01326 372070 E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com       From: Ari Honkala 
[mailto:ari.honk...@sesko.fi]
Sent: 26 April 2018 17:22
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements    As an interim 
solution, until you get the source fixed, would be to use UPS on battery.    
with best regards,    Ari Honkala    From: McBurney, Ian 
[mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: torstai 26. huhtikuuta 2018 13:33
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements    Dear Colleagues.   
 I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements. Can anyone recommend a solution?    Many 
thanks in advance.    Ian McBurney Lead Compliance Engineer.    Allen & Heath 
Ltd. Kernick Industrial Estate, Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK T: 01326 372070 
E:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com       Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business 
in England and Wales, Company number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this 
email are those of the individual and not necessarily those of the company.  -
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Re: [PSES] EN 55032 Testing on Wired Network Port

[John Woodgate]

Very good. In fact, this answer applies to practically EVERY question 
'Do we need to test'? Re 'testing to find out if we need to test' and ' 
to see the effect',  we can use cheaper and quicker 'pre-compliance' 
testing. If the results are in doubt, that indicates in itself a need to 
fully test.


John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK

On 2018-04-27 11:45, Matthew Wilson wrote:


You ask for opinions so I’ll give mine, based on the device needing to 
meet the EU EMC directive as you mention EN 55032.  It’s up to you but 
the decision if the debug port must be tested is part of the risk 
analysis and assessment required by the EU EMC directive. This is 
including foreseeable misuse.   That risk based decision whether to 
test or not will then be part of your technical file for the product 
supporting the declaration of conformity and CE mark.


I would think leaving the wired network port attached is quite a 
reasonable foreseeable misuse and so it could be expected to test to 
see the effect of that operating mode.


But like all these sort of questions the answer is ‘it depends’.  We 
don’t know from your post what the device is, the environment in which 
it is used, the class of end user (skilled, unskilled?) and nor do we 
know all the circumstances that make up the factors to the ‘it 
depends’.  All this can really only be untangled for the product with 
a risk exercise.


See an article here re EMC risk analysis:

https://www.element.com/nucleus/2017/08/17/13/42/what-is-an-emc-risk-analysis

Then only you can decide based on your risk outcomes whether to test 
the port or not and have good supporting evidence as to the decision 
for or against test.


Hope that helps.

Matthew Wilson,

Technical Director,

GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

*From:*itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il]
*Sent:* 24 April 2018 11:19
*To:* EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
*Subject:* [PSES] EN 55032 Testing on Wired Network Port

A device has a wired network port used for de-bugging only.

The port is not used during normal operation of the device.

Any opinions on whether or not this port should be tested?

*Regards,***

*David Shidlowsky***| Technical Reviewer

*Address*1 Bat-Sheva St. LOD 7120101 Israel

*Tel*972-8-9186113*Fax* 972-8-9153101

*Mail*: dav...@itlglobal.org 

This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information.

If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, 
disseminate, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment 
in any way. If you received this e-mail message in error, please 
return by forwarding the message and its attachments to the sender.


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 can be used for graphics (in 
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Matthew Wilson
Technical Director



GBE 
https://gbelectronics.uk

T: +44 (0)1903 244500
F: +44 (0)1903 700715



Ascot House // Mulberry Close // Woods Way
Goring-by-Sea // West Sussex // BN12 4QY // UK




Electronics Design // Manufacturing // Component Distribution

ISO 9001 | ISO 14001 

Want to send us a file? https://www.mailbigfile.com/gbelectronics



GB Electronics (UK) Limited is a company registered in England and Wales
Company Registration No: 06210991
VAT Registration No: GB 925 1744 25



Registered Office:
Ascot House, Mulberry Close, Woods Way
Goring by Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY

Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are 
confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or 
entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in 
error please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the 

Re: [PSES] EN 55032 Testing on Wired Network Port

[Matthew Wilson]

You ask for opinions so I’ll give mine, based on the device needing to meet the 
EU EMC directive as you mention EN 55032.  It’s up to you but the decision if 
the debug port must be tested is part of the risk analysis and assessment 
required by the EU EMC directive. This is including foreseeable misuse.   That 
risk based decision whether to test or not will then be part of your technical 
file for the product supporting the declaration of conformity and CE mark.

I would think leaving the wired network port attached is quite a reasonable 
foreseeable misuse and so it could be expected to test to see the effect of 
that operating mode.

But like all these sort of questions the answer is ‘it depends’.  We don’t know 
from your post what the device is, the environment in which it is used, the 
class of end user (skilled, unskilled?) and nor do we know all the 
circumstances that make up the factors to the ‘it depends’.  All this can 
really only be untangled for the product with a risk exercise.

See an article here re EMC risk analysis:

https://www.element.com/nucleus/2017/08/17/13/42/what-is-an-emc-risk-analysis

Then only you can decide based on your risk outcomes whether to test the port 
or not and have good supporting evidence as to the decision for or against test.

Hope that helps.

Matthew Wilson,
Technical Director,
GB Electronics (UK) Ltd.

From: itl-emc user group [mailto:itl...@itl.co.il]
Sent: 24 April 2018 11:19
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EN 55032 Testing on Wired Network Port

A device has a wired network port used for de-bugging only.
The port is not used during normal operation of the device.
Any opinions on whether or not this port should be tested?


Regards,
David Shidlowsky | Technical Reviewer
Address 1 Bat-Sheva St. LOD 7120101 Israel
Tel 972-8-9186113 Fax 972-8-9153101
Mail : dav...@itlglobal.org

This e-mail message may contain privileged or confidential information.
If you are not the intended recipient, you may not disclose, use, disseminate, 
distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment in any way. If you 
received this e-mail message in error, please return by forwarding the message 
and its attachments to the sender.


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Matthew Wilson
Technical Director


[GBE]
https://gbelectronics.uk


T: +44 (0)1903 244500
F: +44 (0)1903 700715


Ascot House // Mulberry Close // Woods Way
Goring-by-Sea // West Sussex // BN12 4QY // UK



Electronics Design // Manufacturing // Component Distribution
[ISO 9001 | ISO 14001] 

Want to send us a file? https://www.mailbigfile.com/gbelectronics





GB Electronics (UK) Limited is a company registered in England and Wales
Company Registration No: 06210991
VAT Registration No: GB 925 1744 25


Registered Office:
Ascot House, Mulberry Close, Woods Way
Goring by Sea, West Sussex, BN12 4QY


Disclaimer: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and 
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are 
addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete it from your 
system, do not use or disclose the information in any way and notify the sender 
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The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not the views 
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Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

[McBurney, Ian]

Hello Ari.

I'm considering hiring an ac source to power the LISN but my only concern would 
be that the ac source has high conducted rf emissions as I assume the ac is 
derived from high frequency switching power devices.

regards

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


From: Ari Honkala [mailto:ari.honk...@sesko.fi]
Sent: 26 April 2018 17:22
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

As an interim solution, until you get the source fixed, would be to use UPS on 
battery.

with best regards,

Ari Honkala

From: McBurney, Ian [mailto:ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com]
Sent: torstai 26. huhtikuuta 2018 13:33
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Mains Conducted rf emissions measurements

Dear Colleagues.

I am setting up a mains conducted rf emissions measuring system and am 
experiencing excessive mains noise when connecting the LISN to the 240V wall 
socket. The noise affects my measurements between 150kHz to 400KHz. Beyond that 
and up to 30MHz I am satisfied. Is there a way of filtering out this noise. I 
have tried various EMI mains filter modules but none appear to attenuate enough 
at that frequency band. They are very good at attenuating frequencies beyond 
1MHz. I have tried inserting an isolation transformer before the LISN but this 
appears to distort the measurements.
Can anyone recommend a solution?

Many thanks in advance.

Ian McBurney
Lead Compliance Engineer.

Allen & Heath Ltd.
Kernick Industrial Estate,
Penryn, Cornwall. TR10 9LU. UK
T: 01326 372070
E: ian.mcbur...@allen-heath.com


Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.
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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>

All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Allen & Heath Ltd is a registered business in England and Wales, Company 
number: 4163451. Any views expressed in this email are those of the individual 
and not necessarily those of the company.

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discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


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