Re: [PSES] [PSES] IEC/EN62368-1 includes requirements (Annex M) to IEC/EN 62133-2

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Amund

UN38.3 only addresses battery transportation, covering both expected conditions 
and likely mishandling / abuse situations, to demonstrate that they are safe to 
transport. The battery isn’t usually operational during this phase of its life. 

So although some tests are similar, UN38.3 cannot be considered an alternative 
to IEC 62133-2. 

Chris 


> On 16 Oct 2023, at 19:31, Amund Westin  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, James!
> 
> Seems we might have an issue here since the cells are not IEC62133-2 approved.
> 
> But the cells are UN38.3 certified. And we are now running UN38.3 on the 
> complete product (product and cells includes). 
> Do you know if such UN38.3 tests will be good as IEC62133-2 compliance?
> 
> BR
> Amund
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Opprinnelig melding-
> Fra: James Pawson (U3C) 
> Sendt: 16. oktober 2023 16:39
> Til: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Emne: Re: [PSES] IEC/EN62368-1 includes requirements (Annex M) to IEC/EN 
> 62133-2
> 
> Hi Amund,
> 
> Annex M (batteries) is normative = shall comply. You only get to comply with 
> Annex M if you pass M.2.1 which requires that cells comply with the relevant 
> IEC standard.
> 
> IEC 62133 (all parts) are in Annex ZA as an undated reference meaning you 
> should be looking to use the latest one - this is currently IEC 
> 62133-2:2017+A1:2021.
> 
> Many (reputable) battery manufacturers will be aware of this and will have 
> battery packs that are pre-certified to the latest standard.
> 
> All the best
> James
> 
> James Pawson
> Managing Director & EMC Problem Solver
> 
> Unit 3 Compliance Ltd
> EMC : Environmental & Vibration : Electrical Safety : CE & UKCA : Consultancy
> 
> www.unit3compliance.co.uk | ja...@unit3compliance.co.uk 
> +44(0)1274 911747  |  +44(0)7811 139957
> 2 Wellington Business Park, New Lane, Bradford, BD4 8AL Registered in England 
> and Wales # 10574298
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Amund Westin 
> Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 3:27 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] IEC/EN62368-1 includes requirements (Annex M) to IEC/EN 
> 62133-2
> 
> An IT product must comply to EN62368-1. It contains Lithium LiPo batter.
> According to EN/IEC62368-1-1:2020, § M.2 Safety of batteries and their cells, 
> the standard IEC 62133-2 is listed, and batteries and cells shall comply 
> according to that standard.
> 
> Could this be interpreted as an invariable requirement, that if you are to 
> fulfill EN62368-1 and have LiPo cells in your product, then the cells must 
> comply with this standard IEC 62133-2?
> How well known is IEC 62133-2? 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> BR
> Amund
> 
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Re: [PSES] Directives that require the CE Marking

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Brian

Unless it is for use in an explosive atmosphere, then I can’t see that any CE 
marking legislation will apply. 

If it is intended for consumers or likely, under reasonably foreseeable 
conditions, to be used by consumers even if not intended for them, then the 
General Product Safety Directive (and its replacement the General Product 
Safety Regulation) would apply. Plus there’s REACH that applies to almost 
everything. 

And yes, 'Sales and Marketing types’ are the same the world over.  

Regards
Chris 


> On 19 Sep 2023, at 14:31, Brian Kunde  wrote:
> 
> I have a non-electrical benchtop product that holds a piece of sandpaper 
> while slowly running water over the sandpaper. The only connection to this 
> product is a water supply at normal water supply pressure.  The User holds 
> the item they want to sand in their hand and rubs it back and forth on the 
> sandpaper.  It is as simple as that.
> 
> Is there an EU Directive that covers this type of product and if so, is the 
> Directive part of the CE Scheme?  I don't think there is but I am not 
> familiar with all of the EU Directives.  
> 
> 
> So why am I asking?  Believe it or not, some Sales and Marketing types like 
> to see the CE Marking on products. They feel it makes things sell better and 
> it avoids uneducated customers from asking why there is no CE marking on the 
> product.  
> 
> Thanks for any advice, ideas, information, or suggestions.
> The Other Brian
> 
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[PSES] IEC / EN 62368-1 Annex E

[Chris Wordley]

Hello experts

I have a question about how Annex E of EN 62368-1:2020 should be interpreted.

Does the classification of the audio amplifier output terminals need to be done 
with the worst case out-of-phase audio signals (to give the maximum channel to 
channel voltage) or with the signals in phase? 

I believe worst case is appropriate, but might not be quite in the general 
spirit of the annex; it would be interesting to know how this gets tested in 
practice.  

Thanks
Chris

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Re: [PSES] EU Authorized Representative AR)

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Steve

‘authorised representative’ means any natural or legal person established 
within the Union who has received a written mandate from a manufacturer to act 
on its behalf in relation to specified tasks with regard to the manufacturer's 
obligations under the relevant Union harmonisation legislation or under the 
requirements of this Regulation. 
[from Regulation (EU) 2019/1020]

An AR based in Great Britain is therefore not acceptable. An AR based in 
Northern Ireland would be acceptable, since it's part of the EU single market. 

Best Regards
Chris 

> On 15 Aug 2023, at 16:52, Steve Brody  wrote:
> 
> Is it correct that an AR on an EU DoC cannot be based in the UK, even though 
> the UK is still accepting EU DoCs, and therefore EU ARs?
>  
> Steve Brody
> sgbr...@comcast.net 
> C - 603 617 9116
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[PSES] NRTL for PCIE cards?

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Everyone 

From a previous post, I see that in principle OSHA requires any electrical 
product being used in the workplace to be tested and certified by an NRTL, and 
that there's no lower voltage or power limit.  

The product in question is a PCIE card for fitting inside a computer of some 
sort. Its application is very much a professional one, so the host computers 
will be found in a US workplace. The PCIE card has no external interfaces, just 
the PCIE (12V and 3.3V) connection. 

Two questions:

1) Does the PCIE card need NRTL certification? 

2) Are similar cards actually NRTL certified in practice (I’m hoping those of 
you located stateside can chime in)?


Best Regards

Chris 

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[PSES] Automotive Accessories

[Chris Wordley]

Hi All

I’m wanting to understand requirements, standards and if any certification is 
needed for two aftermarket electrical/electronic products used in conjunction 
with breakdown vehicles in the USA, Canada and Australia. 

One product plugs in to the vehicle trailer socket and is used when the vehicle 
is in motion; the other product is built into the breakdown vehicle but is only 
used / powered when it is parked. 

I’m aware of FCC / ISED / RCM, and also UNECE Reg. 10 which has relevance in 
Europe but I’m not sure if elsewhere. It's the ‘automotive’ regulatory aspects 
that I’m particularly looking for help with. Any input appreciated. 


Best Regards

Chris Wordley 



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[PSES] Temporary Vacancy

[Chris Wordley]

A client of ours is looking to fill a temporary vacancy. They are a start-up 
operation specialising in a particular type of electromechanical test equipment.

The basic job offering is as follows:

• Experienced Compliance Engineer
• Primary specialisms: PED/PE(S)D, EHEDG, CE/UK markings
• Must be food & beverage industry “savvy”
• Contract role
• 4-6 months’ duration
• £60K equivalent - open to negotiation
• Remote role, but need to visit Bedford (UK) office 2-days/week
• Expenses paid, at cost
• Start date: as soon as possible
• Will be working closely with Conformance as your external expert 
resource

We have a job description that we can send to anyone who is interested in this 
position. 

Thanks and regards

Chris Wordley
Conformance Ltd. 
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Re: [PSES] equipment without CE marked not sold since more than 10 years

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Daniel

If a product that is within scope of CE-marking legislation is placed on the EU 
market, then it needs to be CE marked. Remember that the concept of placing on 
the market relates to each individual item, not to a type or series. 

As you say, the 10 years relates to the length of time that records need to be 
kept. For example, if you start marketing a particular product model this year 
and do so until 2027, then you will need to keep records such as the technical 
file until 2037. 

Regards
Chris 

> 
> Good morning all
> I know that CE technical file needs to be kept for 10 years.
> If there is an equipment already sold without CE marked since more than 10 
> years, do we have the obligation to CE mark?
> Or we can say that as it passed 10 years, it expired the obligation to CE 
> mark by the manufacturer.
>  
> Thank you for your answer!
>  
>  
> Kind Regards / Saludos cordiales / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
> Daniel Rodríguez
>  
>  
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Re: [PSES] RoHS3 Inquiry Allowable Content

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Chris

Firstly, ‘RoHS2’ and ‘RoHS3’ means different things to different people, so it 
is probably best to refer to the specific legislation e.g. EU Directive 
2011/65/EU. 

Under this Directive, the concentration limits for the 4 phthalates (that were 
added by Delegated Directive (EU) 2015/863) is 0.1% by weight in each 
homogeneous material, however small. 

Chris 


> On 3 Mar 2022, at 14:26, Chris Willette 
> <190af967ec2e-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi 
>  
> Within RoHS3 is there allowable tolerance content for the 4 new substances, 
> eg. It is less than 2 grams it is not applicable?
>  
> Have a connector which is RoHS2 compliance it does not meet RoHs3, because of 
> a very small O-ring around
> the connector’s perimeter.  Within RoHS3 is there an allowable content for a 
> very small piece or is it zero tolerance?
>  
> I  believe RoHS3 has zero tolerance other than the % listed, but was curious 
> if others had a similar situation
> where a very small piece of a component didn’t meet RoHS3 but majority of 
> component met RoHS3?  
>  
> Thanks
>  
> -- 
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Re: [PSES] Nyloc Nuts

[Chris Wordley]

Ted, John

Thanks for your input.

Chris

> On 15 Nov 2021, at 14:33, John Woodgate  wrote:
> 
> The nylon is under hoop stress, causing friction with the stud. Unless it 
> softens due to temperature, it remains effective. However, if there is any 
> doubt, an all-metal version is available. Do a Web search for 'all-metal 
> friction nuts'.
> 
> ==
> Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
> www.woodjohn.uk <http://www.woodjohn.uk/>
> Rayleigh, Essex UK
> Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque
> 
> 
> 
> On 2021-11-15 14:06, Chris Wordley wrote:
>> Hello
>> 
>> We sometimes come across products that employ a Nyloc nut as the sole means 
>> of securing (preventing accidental loosening of) a protective earth 
>> connection on a threaded stud. 
>> 
>> I’ve heard various views on the acceptability of this type of construction - 
>> some consider it OK provided the temperature is not high enough to cause the 
>> nylon insert to soften, others think that a separate spring/serrated washer 
>> is required since the nylon cannot be depended on in the longer term. 
>> 
>> I’d be interested to hear the views of others, particularly any CB or 
>> similar labs. I failed to uncover any IECEE decisions on this subject. 
>> 
>> Best Regards
>> 
>> Chris 
>> 
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[PSES] Nyloc Nuts

[Chris Wordley]

Hello

We sometimes come across products that employ a Nyloc nut as the sole means of 
securing (preventing accidental loosening of) a protective earth connection on 
a threaded stud. 

I’ve heard various views on the acceptability of this type of construction - 
some consider it OK provided the temperature is not high enough to cause the 
nylon insert to soften, others think that a separate spring/serrated washer is 
required since the nylon cannot be depended on in the longer term. 

I’d be interested to hear the views of others, particularly any CB or similar 
labs. I failed to uncover any IECEE decisions on this subject. 

Best Regards

Chris 


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Re: [PSES] BREXIT - UK Designated Standards

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Carl

In the lead up to Brexit it was indeed suggested that BS versions would be 
required for the UK.

As you note, the actual situation is that the UK government has published lists 
of designated standards, which overwhelmingly cite the EN version so these are 
the versions to use. 

At the start of the year the UK designated standards lists and the EU 
harmonised standards lists were the same, but as the EU and UK now have 
separate processes for determining which standards to publish as harmonised / 
designated standards, some differences are starting to emerge e.g. the EU 
updated the HS list for RED last month, the UK’s list has not changed in the 
last 8 months. 

Best Regards

Chris 

> On 8 Aug 2021, at 22:52, Carl Newton  wrote:
> 
> I'm seeing conflicting information as to whether the UK Declaration of 
> Conformity "Designated Standards" should  be the "BS" versions or the "EN" 
> versions.  Every source that I've seen (including very reputable sources) has 
> stated that the BS version should be cited.  However, I'm seeing that the 
> "EN" versions are being listed as the Designated Standards at the GOV.UK web 
> site.  The following link references the EMC standards for this example:
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/designated-standards-emc 
> 
> It seems pretty clear to me that for now and the foreseeable future that the 
> European Norm "EN" versions are also the UK Designated Standards.  But I'm 
> looking for safety in numbers here.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Carl
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 
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Re: [PSES] UKCA MACHINERY-Address of technical file owner

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Daniel

The Product Safety and Metrology etc. (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 
2019 amend the Supply of Machinery (Safety) Regulations 2008 as follows:

Amendment to Schedule 2 Part 2 Annex II

24.—(1) Schedule 2 Part 2 Annex II (Declarations) is amended as follows.
(2) In Section 1 Part A (EC Declaration of conformity of the machinery)—
(a) in the heading and in the third paragraph omit “EC”;
(b) in point 2 omit “, who must be established in an EEA state”;

Point (b) removes the obligation for the person who is authorised to compile 
the technical file to be based in Europe, but does not replace it with an 
obligation for them to be based in the UK. So as things stand at present, they 
could be located anywhere, world wide. It’s not clear whether this is an 
oversight by the UK Government when they drafted the amending Regulations or if 
it was intentional. 


Best Regards

Chris Wordley
Senior Consultant
email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
Direct Line: 01298 873817
Mobile: 07856 520321

Join us for CE marking training - Click here to see our scheduled courses for 
2021 
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Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG 
England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk 
<http://www.conformance.co.uk/>
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646

> On 15 Apr 2021, at 08:04, Rodriguez, Daniel (ESP) 
> <123de38bd494-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
> 
> Good morning everybody
> I have a question related to information of person to contact for technical 
> file for equipment placed in UK according to Supply of Machinery (Safety) 
> Regulations 2008 that needs to be indicated in the UK DoC
> If the UK legislation is similar to Machinery Directive, this person should 
> be in the UK. But I have found the following link that indicates that can be 
> everywhere
>  
> Can someone confirm the legislation link behind this ?
> Thank you for your support!
>  
> https://www.machinebuilding.net/brexit-implications-for-machine-builders 
> <https://www.machinebuilding.net/brexit-implications-for-machine-builders>
> “Whereas CE marking requires a person established in the EEA to be named on 
> the DoC or DoI, there is no such requirement in the draft ‘Mega SI’ 
> (statutory instrument) that is converting much EU law into UK law 
> post-Brexit; in fact, the person authorised to compile the technical file can 
> be anywhere in the world. The technical file must, however, be in English”
>  
>  
> Kind Regards / Saludos cordiales / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>  
> Daniel Rodríguez
> Sr. Equipment Compliance Specialist EMEA
> T +34 673556249
> E drodrig...@ecolab.com <mailto:drodrig...@ecolab.com>
> ecolab.com <http://ecolab.com/>
>  
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail communication and any attachments may 
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[PSES] EMC emission Class A versus Class B

[Chris Wordley]

All

I’d be interested to hear views on the use of Class A EMC emission limits for 
equipment that is intended for use in non-domestic (commercial, light 
industrial) properties; I’m only concerned with the EU situation here. 

More than one well known manufacturer of test equipment (e.g. oscilloscopes) 
declares it as EN 61326-1 Class A, with instructions that the item is only 
intended for use in non-residential areas. Such equipment is often used in 
workshops, laboratories and service centres, which along with residential 
properties are listed in EN 61326-1 as examples of a "basic electromagnetic 
environment", defined as “locations characterized by being supplied directly at 
low voltage from the public mains network”. 

EN 61326-1 defines Class A equipment as "equipment suitable for use in all 
establishments other than domestic and those directly connected to a low 
voltage power supply network which supplies buildings used for domestic 
purposes"

Is it OK to employ Class A limits for professional test or laboratory equipment 
even when it will likely be connected to a public mains supply? 

I realise that EN 55032 only requires Class B for equipment that is intended 
primarily for use in a residential environment (and for broadcast receivers) 
and stipulates Class A elsewhere, but most other standards tend to group 
commercial and light industrial together with residential, and permit Class A 
only in (heavy) industrial environments. 

So in what scenarios can Class A limits, in conjunction with a “not for use in 
residential environment” instruction, be legitimately used for products 
intended for use in non-residential properties that are typically fed from the 
public mains supply? 

Best Regards
Chris 




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Re: [PSES] Energy efficiency for power supplies...

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Matthew

Although I’ve not checked that they all correlate, I believe that the 
efficiency calculations originate from the International Efficiency Marking 
Protocol for External Power Supplies: 
https://beta.regulations.gov/document/EERE-2008-BT-STD-0005-0218 
<https://beta.regulations.gov/document/EERE-2008-BT-STD-0005-0218> 

How they were originally decided upon though I don’t know. 

Best Regards

Chris Wordley
Senior Consultant
email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
Direct Line: 01298 873817
Mobile: 07856 520321

Join us for CE marking training - Click here to see our scheduled courses for 
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Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG 
England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk 
<http://www.conformance.co.uk/>
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646

> On 21 Jan 2021, at 15:08, Matthew Wilson | GBE 
>  wrote:
> 
> EU 2019/1782 is the ecodesign requirements for external power supplies, i.e. 
> their efficiency, for Directive 2009/125/EC. Someone asked me how the formula 
> in 1(b) of Annex II of the EU 2019/1782 regulation was decided upon. This 
> table sets out the determination of 'average active efficiency'. I don't know 
> the answer to where all that came from. So I thought posting here might bring 
> some enlightenment?
> 
> The regulation in all its glory is here:
> https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv%3AOJ.L_.2019.272.01.0095.01.ENG&toc=OJ%3AL%3A2019%3A272%3ATOC
> 
> Thanks & kind regards,
> 
> 
> 
> Disclaimer:​ This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential 
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> which are not the views of the company, unless specifically stated.
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> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
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Re: [PSES] TRAVEL ADAPTORS-EU regulation that forbids use in professional equipment?

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Daniel

See Part II of the UK regulations 
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1994/1768/made/data.pdf 
<https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1994/1768/made/data.pdf> 

Best Regards

Chris Wordley
Senior Consultant
email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
Direct Line: 01298 873817
Mobile: 07856 520321

Join us for CE marking training - Click here to see our scheduled courses for 
2020 
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Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG 
England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk 
<http://www.conformance.co.uk/>
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646

> On 19 Nov 2020, at 15:15, MIKE SHERMAN  wrote:
> 
> For Switzerland, the adaptor must be certified to SEV1011 and must be 
> "fixed." Be aware that most "travel adaptors" are not certified and are not 
> fixed.
> I found the authorities in Switzerland to be quite helpful; contact me 
> directly for more information.
> Mike Sherman
> Graco Inc.
>> On 11/19/2020 8:49 AM Rodriguez, Daniel (ESP) 
>> <123de38bd494-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:
>>  
>>  
>> Good morning all
>> 
>> I got from engineering that they want to provide a plug adaptor for Europe 
>> plugs instead of adding the cord and each European plug (UK, Germany, 
>> Switzerland,). This is only for professional use as the user is trained
>> 
>>  
>> I know that it is not advisable and the best is to use a IEC 60320 connector 
>> but...
>> 
>> Do you know if there any EU country regulation that forbids expressly to use 
>> it? If yes can you provide the link
>> 
>>  
>> Thank you for your support!
>> 
>>  
>> Kind Regards / Saludos cordiales / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Daniel Rodríguez
>> 
>> Sr. Equipment Compliance Specialist EMEA
>> 
>> T +34 673556249
>> 
>> E drodrig...@ecolab.com <mailto:drodrig...@ecolab.com>
>> ecolab.com
>> 
>>  
>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail communication and any attachments may 
>> contain proprietary and privileged information for the use of the designated 
>> recipients named above. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or 
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>> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original 
>> message.
>> - 
>>  
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>> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
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> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
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Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Dave

The statement on our website is:

“The mark must be at least 5 mm high, but this requirement is waived for small 
products under those Directives which require the logo to actually be marked on 
the product itself (as opposed to provided on the instructions or packaging).
The directives which allow the size to be reduced are the Machinery, PPE, 
Medical Devices, ATEX, Lifts, and R+TTE directives. As a rule of thumb, the 
height of the logo may be reduced to 3 mm if the maximum dimension of the 
product is less that 150 mm. (This rule is based on an old standard for the 
marking of text information on products.)”   
 https://www.conformance.co.uk/kbclook/pdf/49.pdf 
<https://www.conformance.co.uk/kbclook/pdf/49.pdf> 

This was written a few years ago hence the R+TTE reference. 

It’s taken a while to uncover, but the origin of the 3mm rule of thumb is 
believed to be EN 82079-1 “Preparation of instructions for use. Structuring, 
content and presentation. General principles and detailed requirements", in 
which the minimum recommended graphical symbol height for very simple general 
symbols (rather than safety signs) marked on products is 3mm. 

Hope this helps. 


Best Regards

Chris Wordley
Senior Consultant
email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
Direct Line: 01298 873817
Mobile: 07856 520321

Join us for CE marking training - Click here to see our scheduled courses for 
2020 
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Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG 
England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk 
<http://www.conformance.co.uk/>
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646

> On 10 Mar 2020, at 15:08, Charlie Blackham  
> wrote:
> 
> Eloquently put – maybe you could draft the update to the Blue guide 😊
>  
> Charlie Blackham
> Sulis Consultants Ltd
> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ <https://sulisconsultants.com/>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>  
> From: Pete Perkins mailto:peperkin...@cs.com>> 
> Sent: 10 March 2020 15:02
> To: Charlie Blackham  <mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>>; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
> <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: RE: [PSES] Reduced CE mark
>  
> Charlie,Under the circumstances you enumerated, would you 
> then recommend to the manufacturer that they put the
> ‘reduced’ CE mark on the RED product and also put the larger 5mm CE mark on 
> the packaging?  This would seem to meet all of the requirements. 
>  
> :>) br,  Pete
>  
> Peter E Perkins, PE
> Principal Product Safety & Regulatory Affairs Consultant
> PO Box 1067
> Albany, ORe  97321-0413
>  
> 503/452-1201
>  
> IEEE Life Fellow
> IEEE PSES 2020 Distinguished Lecturer
> p.perk...@ieee.org <mailto:p.perk...@ieee.org>
>  
> Entropy ain’t what it used to be
>  
> From: Charlie Blackham  <mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com>> 
> Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 1:41 AM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Reduced CE mark
>  
> Dave
>  
> The following is stated in the RED
>  
> Article 19 General principles of the CE marking 
> 1.The CE marking shall be subject to the general principles set out in 
> Article 30 of Regulation (EC) No 765/2008. 22.5.2014 L 153/80 Official 
> Journal of the European Union EN 
> 2.On account of the nature of radio equipment, the height of the CE marking 
> affixed to radio equipment may be lower than 5 mm, provided that it remains 
> visible and legible.
>  
> The issue is the interpretation of “on account of the nature of”.
>  
> However, other Directives may also apply as noted in the RED Guide
>  
> If the radio equipment is subject to other pieces of EU legislation which do 
> not allow the CE marking to be smaller than 5 mm, then the possibility of 
> using a smaller CE mark cannot be used by the manufacturer (e.g. RoHS).
>  
> You are of course allowed to put the CE mark on the packaging where it is not 
> possible to put it on the product (Clause 4.5.1.4 of The Blue Guide)
>  
> If you don’t put a 5mm CE on your product then you may find yourself having 
> to justify your position to a market enforcement authority doing a “desk top” 
> audit
>  
> Regards
> Charlie
>  
> Charlie Blackham
> Sulis Consultants Ltd
> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
> Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/ <https://sulisconsultants.com/>
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
>  
> From: Dave Wilson <0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org 
> <mailto:0271c3568f8a-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org>> 
> Sent: 10 March

[PSES] IEC/EN 60519-2:2006 Withdrawal

[Chris Wordley]

Hi All

“Safety in electroheat installations. Particular requirements for resistance 
heating equipment”.

The IEC standard was withdrawn last August, the national EN versions more 
recently, seemingly without replacement. 

Does anybody know the background to the withdrawal, and which standards are 
being used instead? 

Best Regards

Chris Wordley
Consultant
email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
Direct Line: 01298 873817
Mobile: 07856 520321

Click here to watch our new videos - 10 things you should know about CE Marking 
<https://www.conformance.co.uk/ce-marking-for-products/10-things-you-should-know-about-ce-marking>






Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG 
England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk 
<http://www.conformance.co.uk/>
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646


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Re: [PSES] Big Boot from List Server

[Chris Wordley]

Likewise. 


Best Regards

Chris Wordley
Consultant
email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
Direct Line: 01298 873817
Mobile: 07856 520321

Click here to watch our new videos - 10 things you should know about CE Marking 
<https://www.conformance.co.uk/ce-marking-for-products/10-things-you-should-know-about-ce-marking>






Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG 
England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk 
<http://www.conformance.co.uk/>
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646

> On 24 Apr 2019, at 16:20, Don Gies <0d65e2e261b9-dmarc-requ...@ieee.org> 
> wrote:
> 
> I got booted today also, and resubscribed.
> 
> Don Gies
> ddg...@verizon.net
> Mobile: +1.732.207.7828
> 
> Sent from Android Phone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 11:05 AM -0400, "Brian Kunde"  <mailto:bkundew...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Since the first of the year, I have been having trouble maintaining my 
> subscription to this List Server. According to those who administrate this, 
> the problems are all at our end but our eMail Administrator looked into it 
> and said the problem that is being reported is outside our control (Phishing).
> 
> So in early April, I switched to my Gmail account thinking that this move 
> should resolve all the issues. Nope. Today I was booted again for 2 
> undeliverable emails.   
> 
> The problem is not my posts because I haven't posted since my last 
> re-subscription.  I don't know what else to try. 
> 
> Is anyone else having similar troubles? Any suggestions other than just 
> re-subscribing every few weeks?  
> 
> I appreciate your input. 
> 
> The Other Brian
> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
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> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
> <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/>
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
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> -
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
> mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org>>
> 
> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: 
> http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html 
> <http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html>
> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
> http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ 
> <http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/> can be used for graphics (in 
> well-used formats), large files, etc.
> 
> Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ <http://www.ieee-pses.org/>
> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to 
> unsubscribe) <http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html>
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> David Heald mailto:dhe...@gmail.com>>
> 


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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
formats), large files, etc.

Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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[PSES] 24GHz band - what are plans for it in the UK/EU?

[Chris Wordley]

Hi All

Does anyone know the the plans for this band? OFCOM states granting permissions 
in this band rests with defence.

Directive 2011/485/EU covers time limited automotive use, with cars 
transferring to the 79GHz band for automotive radars.


Best Regards

Chris Wordley
Consultant
email: chris.word...@conformance.co.uk 
Direct Line: 01298 873817
Mobile: 07856 520321

Increase your CE marking knowledge - See our 2019 training schedule, now 
available on our website. 
<https://www.conformance.co.uk/our-services/ce-marking-training-risk-assessment>





Conformance Limited. The Old Methodist Chapel, Great Hucklow, Buxton, SK17 8RG 
England
Tel. +44 1298 873800, Fax. +44 1298 873801, www.conformance.co.uk 
<http://www.conformance.co.uk/>
Registered in England, Company No. 3478646


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This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 


All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used 
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Re: [PSES] Labeling - battery operated products

[Chris Wordley]

Hi Amund

I would certainly not consider myself an IATA specialist, but my understanding 
and experience is that the labels shown in this document are applied to an 
outside face of the transport packaging so that handlers can treat the package 
appropriately; they are not applied to the Li batteries (or to equipment 
containing them) themselves.

Regards
Chris

From: Amund Westin [mailto:am...@westin-emission.no]
Sent: 08 September 2017 05:35
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Labeling - battery operated products

At least for CE marking purposes, there are no requirements for any battery 
related information on the product label.

But then I came into this web-site / document:
http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/lithium-battery-guidance-document-2017-en.pdf

Should a product (with batteries incorporated) have such battery information on 
its label or is this IATA requirements only for shipment packages?

Any IATA specialists here?


BR
Amund




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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at 
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Website:  http://www.ieee-pses.org/
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